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    Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

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    TR1
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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:19 am

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    it was the eastern front that defeated the Germany army... not the bombing of german women and children and old men in their homes.

    Without the US the soviets wouldnt won the war the US gave the soviets so mich resources to win the war, because of that they later won the war.


    So much bullshit in one comment.

    Without the US Soviets would have won much earlier than 1945!!!

    Soviets won the war DESPITE that USA and UK sold resources to Germany along with all Allied Forces.
    USA was very happy to getting rich from dead germans and soviets while own troops could saftley swing their balls in their own homeland.

    Through the mid 30's to the last day of the WW2 in 1945 USA supplied Germany constantly with oil,resources for military purposes.

    http://libcom.org/library/allied-multinationals-supply-nazi-germany-world-war-2


    From the "Trading With the Enemy" cover blurb;  "Here is the extraordinary true story of the American businessmen and government officials who dealt with the Nazis for profit or through conviction throughout the Second World War: Ford. Standard Oil, Chase Bank and members of the State Department were among those who shared in the spoils. Meticulously documented and dispassionately told, this is an alarming story. At its centre is 'The Fraternity', an influential international group associated with the [b]Rockefeller or Morgan banks[/b] and linked by the ideology of Business as Usual. wrote:

    But that is only one of the cases detailed in this book. [b]We have Standard Oil shipping enemy fuel through Switzerland for the Nazi occupation forces in France[/b]; [b]Ford trucks transporting German troops[/b]; [b]I.T.T. helping supply the rocket bombs that marauded much of London [/b]; and [b]I.T.T. building the Focke-Wulfs[/b] that [b]dropped those bombs[/b]. Long and shocking is the list of diplomats and businessmen alike who had their own ways of profiting from the war." wrote:

    Yes, without US supplies and D-Day the poor Soviets wouldn't have won.

    The Soviets were the one who won the entire war, over 80% of all destroyed and defeated Wehrmacht soldiers died on the eastern front, the war was desided before any Allied forces opened a western front!

    But civilians are the first priority target of US and UK bombers, you won nothing but war of lies about massmurders as leaders who glorified themselfs as philanthropists.

    Without the US the soviets wouldnt won Much earlier because then the germans could have concentrade all of their troops to the eastern front and if the germans focussed everything they got on the eastern front the soviets would've been doomed

    Are you dumb?

    They did focus almost all their worthwile forces in the East, and had millions of allied soldiers.
    The USSR kept big forces in the East as well.

    Germany tried all it could, and couldn't beat the USSR. The USSR did far away the most to beat Germany.

    Deal with it.

    The USSR even managed to do with Stalin's catastrophic leadership during the first year of the war, and even after losing all the critical agricultural, industrial, and population rich land in the Ukraine and Belarus in the first months of the war.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:37 am

    It ia fascinating how people are propagandized about WW2 that without the Mighty US who got their lazy arses into the war when the war was already decided to safe the poor poor Soviets who did nothing to win the war.

    Without Soviet Union, there wouldn't be New York and for sure no London today.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:08 am

    You're Talking like the Western allies were the bad guys but the soviets were the ones that raped and killed thousands of women in Berlin and they killed very Much men.

    Germany invaded the Soviet Union and killed more than 8 million Soviet troops and more than 20 million Soviet civilians.

    The Germans were the civilised westerners and the Soviets were the backward half asians... I would say in many ways the opposite was true... the Soviets treated the Germans rather better than the Germans treated the Soviets.


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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  collegeboy16 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Germany invaded the Soviet Union and killed more than 8 million Soviet troops and more than 20 million Soviet civilians.

    The Germans were the civilised westerners and the Soviets were the backward half asians... I would say in many ways the opposite was true... the Soviets treated the Germans rather better than the Germans treated the Soviets.
    fcking terrible, tho you dont see this guys pulling the victim card every now and then. I always wondered why the fck didnt the sovs attack first while they were facing the nazis in poland. Could have prolly bought more time tho it would still be a bloodbath and they would need to retreat anyway.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:48 pm

    Werewolf wrote:It ia fascinating how people are propagandized about WW2 that without the Mighty US who got their lazy arses into the war when the war was already decided to safe the poor poor Soviets who did nothing to win the war.

    Without Soviet Union, there wouldn't be New York and for sure no London today.



    New york already was a big city why would there be no new york without the soviets and whatabout London the british defended London well an invasion of britain was a no changes plan the soviets and new york and London has Nothing to do with eachother

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:55 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:It ia fascinating how people are propagandized about WW2 that without the Mighty US who got their lazy arses into the war when the war was already decided to safe the poor poor Soviets who did nothing to win the war.

    Without Soviet Union, there wouldn't be New York and for sure no London today.



    New york already was a big city why would there be no new york without the soviets and whatabout London the british defended London well an invasion of britain was a no changes plan the soviets and new york and London has Nothing to do with eachother

    Because more than 80-85% of Wehrmacht was on EASTERN FRONT!!!

    If Soviet Union would never be attacked all those troops would have been focused first on UK and UK was horribly in overall compared to Germany, it would take a few years but they would have made their way to the island and USA was just one small cake after that. USA was incompetend back than and had only get technology after 1945 with Operation Paperclip, germany already had works on nuclear weapons.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  etaepsilonk on Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:00 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:It ia fascinating how people are propagandized about WW2 that without the Mighty US who got their lazy arses into the war when the war was already decided to safe the poor poor Soviets who did nothing to win the war.

    Without Soviet Union, there wouldn't be New York and for sure no London today.



    New york already was a big city why would there be no new york without the soviets and whatabout London the british defended London well an invasion of britain was a no changes plan the soviets and new york and London has Nothing to do with eachother

    Because more than 80-85% of Wehrmacht was on EASTERN FRONT!!!

    If Soviet Union would never be attacked all those troops would have been focused first on UK and UK was horribly in overall compared to Germany, it would take a few years but they would have made their way to the island and USA was just one small cake after that. USA was incompetend back than and had only get technology after 1945 with Operation Paperclip, germany already had works on nuclear weapons.

    And how they would've reached UK? By swimming?  Rolling Eyes 

    WW2 was cooperative effort, and you and russiastronk crew should deal with it...

    Without lend-lease aid, the Soviet Union couldn't have continued the war. And you know who said it? Georgiy Zhukov.

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    Post  Pugnax on Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:42 pm

    Bravo,somebody finally came out and said it,a combined effort.While the alliance was not always strong and the quality of lend lease equiptment was not always present,it required teamwork to defeat the Reich.It is true that America prospered during the early war,Uboats refueled from gulf platforms,and the same shady trading as in WW1 commenced.Britain was more than happy to support Finland during the Winterwar.The Soviets bled and bought time for the allied buildup,the men and materiel,that paved the way to victory.As Gary hinted,the lend lease equiptment paid dividends in 44 and 45.The Studebaker truck and the willies jeep were probably what allowed such sweeping Soviet advances.Stop the infighting,it hints that the emergence of the coldwar couldnt be avoided then,as it seems to be unavoidable here in this thread.I dont believe America would have been threatened by German victory in Europe,but there would be no marshalling yards if Britain failed.Without the Soviets Operation Sealion would have occurred,the kriegsmarine would suffer and initial landing forces would be decimated,but an invasion of britain would have been steamrolled right to Scotland.Team effort lads,its the why and how of victory.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  etaepsilonk on Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:04 pm

    Here's a not too bad lend-lease study:
    http://militera.lib.ru/memo/usa/stettinius/06.html

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    Post  Pugnax on Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:20 pm

    Thank you for sharing that document,quite eye opening!

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Regular on Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:46 pm

    Without SU there would be no USA or UK? Are You kidding right? UK could have suffered if Germans would concentrate on building formidable naval power, but in the war time it would be hard. They even had less ships then they were allowed pre war time.
    How in the hell would they attack USA? Compare industrial power, air force, navy, USA was ahead in many areas. Not only number wise. Are you sure USA was lagging behind in technology??? Their army was strong as well with okeyish leadership.
    They could have wiped Germans by themselves if they had commitment as they couldn't care less what's going in Europe. Concentration camps boo effing hoo, they wouldn't attack if even last Jew would fly out from the chimney, but if someone would pearharbour their navy.. then Freedom fries and democracy will fall upon them.

    And to the duch kid crying about Russians raping women in Germany. You might be too young to understand, but look at the bright side of it. Most of German men where in Wermacht, probably rotting in the fields across the Europe, so I doubt they had quality time with gentlemen company as male population was dried out - only cripples and nazi midgets with funny moustaches. When Russians come to Berlin the real rape was done by German women against Soviet soldiers. They went to Berlin as boys and came as men..
    Maybe Germans aren't known for numerous Dick crimes in eastern front as like true German they prefer dead meat, but their Romanian and Hungarian fellas where swinging their gipsy ends with swastikas pined to them. They where only proficient at crimes, but not fighting. So what if Russians can do both.


    Last edited by Regular on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:03 pm

    Regular wrote:Without SU there would be no USA or UK? Are You kidding right? UK could have suffered if Germans would concentrate on building the naval power, but in the war time it would be hard.
    How in the hell would they attack USA? Compare industrial power, air force, navy, USA was ahead in many areas. Not only number wise. Are you sure USA was lagging behind in technology??? Their army was strong as well with ok leadership.
    They could have wiped Germans by themselves if they had commitment as they couldn't care less what's going in Europe. Concentration camps boo effing hoo, they wouldn't attack if even last Jew would fly out from the chimney, but if some would attack their navy.. then Freedom and democracy will fall upon them.

    And about the duch kid crying about Russians raping women in Germany. You might be too young to understand, but look at the bright side of it. Most of German men where in Wermacht, probably rotting in the fields across the Europe, so I doubt they had quality time with gentlemen company as male population was dried out - only cripples and nazi midgets with funny moustaches. When Russians come to Berlin the real rape was done by German women against Soviet soldiers. They went to Berlin as boys and came as men..

    True and i didnt knew the germans did the same with russian females

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Regular on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:23 pm

    Wermacht weren't saints from Poland to Soviet union, they had marauders, rapists and so on. They had all society in the army and there are bad apples in every basket. War brutalises people and You get results. Soviet situation was the same, just add revenge in the mix, Caucasian tribes and lack of control when Berlin fell equals to violent Soviet-German smootcharoo.
    By the way, rapists and marauders in Soviet army where executed if caught. There was even a list on ww2 forum,  and by the surnames you could find many georgiashvillis amongst them.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:56 pm

    lol, Zhukov also said a million times the USSR would have won without Lend-lEase.


    Thinking the USSR would have lost without Lend-lease is delusional and insulting.

    Of course dismissing it as unimportant is also innacurate.

    Comming in here and declaring the USSR would have lost without the US (lol) what kind of reaction do you expect? Go do some reading.


    Last edited by TR1 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  etaepsilonk on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:57 pm

    Regular wrote:Wermacht weren't saints from Poland to Soviet union, they had marauders, rapists and so on. They had all society in the army and there are bad apples in every basket. War brutalises people and You get results. Soviet situation was the same, just add revenge in the mix, Caucasian tribes and lack of control when Berlin fell equals to violent Soviet-German smootcharoo.
    By the way, rapists and marauders in Soviet army where executed if caught. There was even a list on ww2 forum,  and by the surnames you could find many georgiashvillis amongst them.

    The stupid... it hurts  Neutral




    To TR1:
    "Thinking the USSR would have lost without Lend-lease is delusional and insulting."

    Did you read my link?


    Last edited by etaepsilonk on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:58 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Regular wrote:Without SU there would be no USA or UK? Are You kidding right? UK could have suffered if Germans would concentrate on building the naval power, but in the war time it would be hard.
    How in the hell would they attack USA? Compare industrial power, air force, navy, USA was ahead in many areas. Not only number wise. Are you sure USA was lagging behind in technology??? Their army was strong as well with ok leadership.
    They could have wiped Germans by themselves if they had commitment as they couldn't care less what's going in Europe. Concentration camps boo effing hoo, they wouldn't attack if even last Jew would fly out from the chimney, but if some would attack their navy.. then Freedom and democracy will fall upon them.

    And about the duch kid crying about Russians raping women in Germany. You might be too young to understand, but look at the bright side of it. Most of German men where in Wermacht, probably rotting in the fields across the Europe, so I doubt they had quality time with gentlemen company as male population was dried out - only cripples and nazi midgets with funny moustaches. When Russians come to Berlin the real rape was done by German women against Soviet soldiers. They went to Berlin as boys and came as men..

    True and i didnt knew the germans did the same with russian females

    You do know what the Germans did the East? Don't you?


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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Regular on Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:10 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Regular wrote:Wermacht weren't saints from Poland to Soviet union, they had marauders, rapists and so on. They had all society in the army and there are bad apples in every basket. War brutalises people and You get results. Soviet situation was the same, just add revenge in the mix, Caucasian tribes and lack of control when Berlin fell equals to violent Soviet-German smootcharoo.
    By the way, rapists and marauders in Soviet army where executed if caught. There was even a list on ww2 forum,  and by the surnames you could find many georgiashvillis amongst them.

    The stupid... it hurts  Neutral


    Well what do You expect when 15 year old Dutch starts to use strong words like rape when he barely knows what sex is. It's dangerous to discuss with him further because his sick affection of rape could get our hard drives confiscated.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  etaepsilonk on Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:20 pm

    Regular wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Regular wrote:Wermacht weren't saints from Poland to Soviet union, they had marauders, rapists and so on. They had all society in the army and there are bad apples in every basket. War brutalises people and You get results. Soviet situation was the same, just add revenge in the mix, Caucasian tribes and lack of control when Berlin fell equals to violent Soviet-German smootcharoo.
    By the way, rapists and marauders in Soviet army where executed if caught. There was even a list on ww2 forum,  and by the surnames you could find many georgiashvillis amongst them.

    The stupid... it hurts  Neutral


    Well what do You expect when 15 year old Dutch starts to use strong words like rape when he barely knows what sex is. It's dangerous to discuss with him further because his sick affection of rape could get our hard drives confiscated.


    I was only trying to say that those despicable acts indicate not "the traditions", or "desire for revenge", but lack of moral. Ensuring moral is responsibility of the officers. So, blamming it on Romanian, or Hungarian, or Caucasian soldiers is just wrong.
    Give a Kaligula to Swedish troops, and they'll "perform" no worse than Mongols in Medieval ages...


    As for remarks of that Dutch, yes, they were very immature, but you, as I assume, adult person, shouldn't descend to his level.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Mindstorm on Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:44 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:Here's a not too bad lend-lease study:
    http://militera.lib.ru/memo/usa/stettinius/06.html


    Do you truly pretend to come HERE and sell to US as a "lend lease study" this self-embarrassing publication ?   Laughing  Laughing  Unbelievable.

    As if even the walls here would'nt know perfectly who is Б. Соколов, and its (very well payed in the West )....,at best, "revisionist" publications on Soviet history and WWII with authenticate garbage such as  Неизвестный Жуков: портрет без ретуши в зеркале эпохи  Rolling Eyes  and "The Role of the Soviet Union in the Second World War: A Re-examination". Rolling Eyes 


    It not surprise me that this comical "Russian source" (on the same kind of other western loved/controled " ones such as Alexander Golt or Pavel Felgenhauer) has been added to the new edition of the original book of...........Edward Stettinius, Jr. (one of the US directors and ideators of Lend-Lease Act therefore surely a not biased source   Razz  Razz  Razz ) "Lend-Lease: Weapon For Victory"


    What has REALLY written Marshal Zhukov in FIRST PERSON (instead of what supposedly claimed by third persons in phantomly documentations supposedly in the US  Laughing Laughing with literally the same scientific reliability of fairy dust  Laughing )  on this subject ?


    Well you can read yourself in its Memories Very Happy :


    [/u]
    "Касались мы в разговоре с Д. Эйзенхауэром вопроса о поставках по ленд-лизу. И здесь тогда все было ясно. Однако в течение многих послевоенных лет буржуазная историография утверждала, как и продолжает утверждать до сих пор, что якобы решающую роль в достижении нашей победы над врагом сыграли поставки союзниками вооружения, материалов, продовольствия.

    Действительно, Советский Союз получил от союзников во время войны важные поставки для народного хозяйства— машины, оборудование, материалы, горючее, продовольствие. Из США и Англии было доставлено, например, более 400 тысяч автомобилей, большое количество паровозов, средств связи. Но разве все это могло оказать решающее влияние на ход войны? Я говорил уже о том, что советская промышленность достигла в годы войны огромного размаха и обеспечила фронт и тыл всем необходимым. Повторяться нет смысла.

    Относительно вооружения могу сказать следующее. Мы получили по ленд-лизу из США и Англии около 18 тысяч самолетов, более 11 тысяч танков. К общему числу вооружения, которым советский народ оснастил свою армию за годы войны, поставки по ленд-лизу составили в среднем 4 процента. Следовательно, о решающей роли поставок говорить не приходится.


    Что касается танков и самолетов, которые английское и американское правительства нам поставляли, скажем прямо, они не отличались высокими боевыми качествами, особенно танки, которые, работая на бензине, горели как факелы. "




    Pentagon department for information's corruption and denial has been always historically lousy and a bit too much unsophisticated in its work for any intellect superior to that of an high invertebrate (is sufficient to even only observe lately that comical mess that has been the grossly attempt to blame CW attack to SAA.....literally with thin air, shaking images and wide words  Laughing ) ,but what i find even more odd is that three of you (i obviously don't refere to you Regular  Wink ) still attempt so old tactics such as group "mutual validation" and "critical thinking bypass" of selected PR pieces even pretending to achieve any result different from shared derision behind your shoulders .


    The US has badly lost this PO information war in Russia more than 15 years ago and now ,with also mercenary NGOs literally paralysed and exposed to PO, the tide go in the exact opposite direction  Very Happy  

    An hot welcome in the 2014 world to all the dinosaurs listening.......

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:35 am

    I always wondered why the fck didnt the sovs attack first while they were facing the nazis in poland. Could have prolly bought more time tho it would still be a bloodbath and they would need to retreat anyway.

    Stalin was convinced the Germans didn't want a two front war and any evidence that the Germans might attack was just propaganda by the British trying to get the Soviets into the war with Germany on their side.

    When Germany approached the Soviets with a non aggression pact the Soviets approached the UK and Poland, but the UK wasn't interested and Poland rejected them too fearing the Soviets rather more than they feared the Germans.

    The result was there was only one offer on the table and to accept it moved german forces further from Moscow, while not accepting it probably meant all of Poland occupied by germany.

    It was a no brainer.

    And how they would've reached UK? By swimming?

    Concentrating all their U boats in the English Channel as well as air drops to take a modest size port on British territory.

    Britain wasn't that well defended.

    It was fishing boats and private yachts that got the BEF from dunkirk to the UK... with the Luftwaffe and the sub fleet supporting it I see no reason why an invasion of the UK would necessarily fail.

    The claims that the Brits could stand up to the blitz and therefore could stand up to anything is bunk... all that strategic bombing of germany but it was ground forces that was needed in the end.

    Without lend-lease aid, the Soviet Union couldn't have continued the war. And you know who said it? Georgiy Zhukov.

    Rubbish. Lend lease made things easier, but the Soviets had no choice but to fight because of the scorched earth policy of the Germans.

    As Gary hinted,the lend lease equiptment paid dividends in 44 and 45.

    except western fan bois suggest that without lend lease the Soviets could not move without trucks... the Soviets didn't make a lot of trucks because they were getting them via lend lease, it is not that they couldn't make them themselves, it just didn't make sense to make them when they could buy them from the US.



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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:29 am

    WWII was a joint effort certainly, but the Soviets bore the brunt of the ground fighting for the allied side.

    Contrary to western beliefs they didn't lose all those soldiers and civilians because they didn't know what they were doing or because they were inferior to western forces of the period.

    They took on an experienced well trained and well equipped and well coordinated force and had to learn on the job.

    Some cities were overrun and taken and then taken back and then taken again several times. Explosives don't just kill soldiers in uniform, and when a military force like the Germans attacks a city where it cares nothing for the civilian population (a bit like Georgia attacking South Ossetia) then heavy fire power is the order of the day.

    You can go into a basement during a bombing raid and unless a bomb pretty much hits your house you will probably survive. When the enemy comes into your house with a submachine gun your survival is rather less certain.

    Suggesting the behaviour of Soviet troops in Germany was not good enough is a joke... they behaved 1000% better than the Germans did in the Soviet Union.

    Due to strategic bombing the western allies killed more German civilians than the Soviets did.


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    TR1
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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:32 am

    The more bombing the Allies did, the better for the USSR.

    I hold nothing against them for blowing the shit out of Germany.


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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:36 am

    If they actually hit what they were trying to bomb then I would agree with you... if they had hit the ball bearing factories they constantly talked about bombing it might have had a practical effect.

    In the end what they were doing was killing women and children and old men in fire storms.


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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:49 am

    They bombed plenty of military targets. It was not their fault accuracy was awful back in the day.

    Plus even busting cities was important. It crippled communication and transport hubs, killed population (morbid yes, necessary yes) and forced the Germans to devout production to making night fighters, AA and radar, resources they would have otherwise spent making tanks to fight the Red Army.

    The efficiency of Allied bombing is certainly up for criticism, but it was not for lack of trying. They did their best to bomb Germany to shit, and the crews had a hellish job.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:34 am

    What really grinds my gears is when people come and say that Land Lease along with the Mother russian winter and all excuses they are using to lower the role of SU in WW2.

    And here something you should think about.

    You fight with someone who tries to kill you a 3rd Person who calls himself your Friend gives your enemy a baseball bat that he can beat the shit out of you easier and before the fight is decided and one of both is dead he hands you over another baseball bat that you get it easier.

    So who understood this little metapha?

    US supplied Nazi Germany from mid 30 up to the last day of the WW2 with oil,finance aids from Rockefeller and Morgan and others with Nazi Germany along with constant resources for military purposes and than in last year they gave to the Soviet Union some trucks, woohoo we helped you Soviet Union, kiss our arses.

    Lend Lease had no effect on the outcome whatsoever and the Soviet Union WON the war DESPITE that USA was constantly each year of the war financing Nazi Germany and fueled their military.

    But yes Soviets have to thank USA for the fucking Land Lease.

    The Land Lease is out of the equation since it is ridiculed due the fact the enemy god much more constantly through the years.


    And to TR1, this bombings might not be that accurate but they can't be 40km inaccurate when there is no military target whatsoever.

    Actually the UK was pretty accurate when it came to targets which had a military meaning, they even bombed bridges to slower Soviet progress into important cities.


    Here is also a video with german subtitles in russian about WW2 and the "Allied Forces" and bombing on civilians.




    Also people pay attention to the list and the years where the Allied Forces GDP SKYROCKET beyond sanity, due the fact they were selling their stuff to ALL sides!


    PS can a mod fix on page 6 that i missclicked on the Unlike mark on Regulars comment, im on laptop and had to use touchpad.

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