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    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    xeno
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    • Post n°286

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    Post  xeno Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:40 pm

    two unbelievable news:

    Admiral Gorshkov will be transferred to the fleet at the end of the year.
    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20141105/1031792384.html

    The frigate "Admiral Kasatonov" will be launched before the end of the year and transfered to Navy in 2015.
    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20141105/1031793521.html

    This is too good.

    Hope the reporters were not drunk when writing these news...

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    Post  TR1 Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:55 pm

    Transferred without even doing any trials.

    "Experimental service" will probably go on for a year or two at the least.
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    • Post n°288

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    Post  Mike E Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:01 pm

    TR1 wrote:Transferred without even doing any trials.

    "Experimental service" will probably go on for a year or two at the least.
    Yep, but like you said, they will probably trial it in service.

    Not as bad as producing and developing something at once (cough...F35..cough).
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    • Post n°289

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    Post  Viktor Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:39 am

    Finally thumbsup

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 12 0eYa6yK
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    Post  medo Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:14 pm

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 12 22350_10

    Yep, Gorshkov is finally going to sail. Kasatanov also looks, that its construction is finished. Now it need only electronics and weapons.
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    • Post n°291

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    Post  xeno Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:19 pm

    Yes, the ugliest PESA antennas in Human history.
    At the beginning I thought they were some wooden covers with stiffeners and then later I realized they are PESA antennas. I was so shocked, such ugly PESA antennas on such a beatiful frigate.
    Sorry Russian friends, I really cannot hold...
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    • Post n°292

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    Post  TheArmenian Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:03 pm

    Heading for trials

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 12 19nq7q

    Full size photos:

    http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=416251

    http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=416270

    http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=416272

    http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=416275
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    • Post n°293

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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:46 pm

    xeno wrote:Yes, the ugliest PESA antennas in Human history.
    At the beginning I thought they were some wooden covers with stiffeners and then later I realized they are PESA antennas. I was so shocked, such ugly PESA antennas on such a beatiful frigate.
    Sorry Russian friends, I really cannot hold...

    Ugly or not, why do you think they are PESA?
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    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:06 pm

    xeno wrote:Yes, the ugliest PESA antennas in Human history.
    At the beginning I thought they were some wooden covers with stiffeners and then later I realized they are PESA antennas. I was so shocked, such ugly PESA antennas on such a beatiful frigate.
    Sorry Russian friends, I really cannot hold...

    Those are covers.
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    Post  xeno Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:46 am

    TR1 wrote:
    xeno wrote:Yes, the ugliest PESA antennas in Human history.
    At the beginning I thought they were some wooden covers with stiffeners and then later I realized they are PESA antennas. I was so shocked, such ugly PESA antennas on such a beatiful frigate.
    Sorry Russian friends, I really cannot hold...

    Those are covers.

    "Как видно на фото, на «интегрированной мачте» вместо фазированных антенных решеток прибиты деревянные доски."
    http://www.militaryparitet.com/perevodnie/data/ic_perevodnie/6133/

    Thanks god I was wrong...


    Last edited by xeno on Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Mike E Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:51 am

    Why do looks even matter? It is a radar system for crying out loud... The only important aspect of its physical design is that it doesn't produce a large cross section.
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    Post  xeno Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:19 am

    Mike E wrote:Why do looks even matter? It is a radar system for crying out loud... The only important aspect of its physical design is that it doesn't produce a large cross section.

    I need it to be beautiful.
    I can tolerate PESA, I can wait for 20385 with double-band AESA...
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    Post  TR1 Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:15 am

    Ya'll notice the asymmetrical turret?

    I will say, by pure aesthetics, our 130mm gun looks much better than the Chinese one, which is a real clunker in comparison.
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    Post  Mike E Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:19 am

    xeno wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Why do looks even matter? It is a radar system for crying out loud... The only important aspect of its physical design is that it doesn't produce a large cross section.

    I need it to be beautiful.
    I can tolerate PESA, I can wait for 20385 with double-band AESA...
    Why though? Military equipment is always function over form, period. Like I said, the only "form" that matters in this case is its cross-section. Besides, other covers (like the AN/SPY on the Burke's) look they are made out of Fisher Price plastic. 

    Nice one TR1! Always gotta point out something that is asym, it drives people like xeno crazy...
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    Post  xeno Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:49 am

    Of course it is much more better than Chinese one, actually it is the best looking one in this class(127mm and 130mm) in the world.
    As for "function over form" debate, yes, generally I agree, however we are talking about Russian military equipment, so in this case, I want both function and form.
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    Post  Mike E Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:22 am

    xeno wrote:Of course it is much more better than Chinese one, actually it is the best looking one in this class(127mm and 130mm) in the world.
    As for "function over form" debate, yes, generally I agree, however we are talking about Russian military equipment, so in this case, I want both function and form.

    You want it, they don't, it's as simple as that. However, I will say, Russian military equipment always seems to be the best looking bias rapid. The Gorshkov is no exception to my eyes, and a radar cover doesn't change that.

    Anyway... To the next Gorshkov!
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    Post  xeno Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:38 am

    Actually they do, that is why so many good and beautiful Russian airplanes, warships and vehicles in the world.
    Ok let's stop this debate...
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    Post  TR1 Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:39 am

    I feel what Xeno is saying, it is a phenomenal looking ship, and weird bars on the Radars ruin perfection- I think they are not permanent though, the rear ones don't have them for one.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:28 am

    At first sight several aircraft look "ugly"... meaning different or strange, but when the difference is explained and the differences make logical sense then there is beauty in difference too.

    the Su-25 does not look much like other aircraft of its generation, but there are sound sensible reasons for this, just as there are sensible reasons for the Mi-28N to look the way it does.

    Having looked at a sleek Su-27 or Ka-62 the Su-25 and Mi-28N might not be the most appealing designs, but they have a specific function that makes their shapes suitable and functional.

    For instance the thimble antenna on the nose of the Mi-28 series is the 35GHz control antenna for command guided missiles like Shturm and Ataka.

    They could have made it without such an antenna but that would prevent the aircraft from using a very cheap mass produced missile that is currently extensively used in Russia.
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:08 am

    xeno wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Why do looks even matter? It is a radar system for crying out loud... The only important aspect of its physical design is that it doesn't produce a large cross section.

    I need it to be beautiful.
    I can tolerate PESA, I can wait for 20385 with double-band AESA...

    You still haven't told us why you think they are PESAs.

    You have made that assertion before on this thread, and I am not aware of you offering any reason for what you were saying that time either.
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    Post  xeno Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:15 pm

    Yury Guskov said so although he doesn't work for A-A.
    He told KDR(Kanwa Defense Review) journalist the Phased Array Radar on the new 4000 ton frigate of Russian navy is "Passive" in a short interview in Saint Petersburg about 3 years ago, so he promoted Bagira-M designed by Phazontron as the first generation AESA for Russian navy.
    I believe the new 4000 ton frigate he mentioned is 22350 instead of 11356 whose Fregat radar was invented 20 years ago.
    I choose to believe what I read on that magazine considering A-A hasn't much AESA designing experience, the land version S-350 uses a PESA radar to guide 9M96 missiles, Poliment project was started long time ago and even today mass producing small and light TR unit in Russia is very questionable (radar antenna on 22350 is quite small).
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:44 pm

    xeno wrote:Yury Guskov said so although he doesn't work for A-A.
    He told KDR(Kanwa Defense Review) journalist the Phased Array Radar on the new 4000 ton frigate of Russian navy is "Passive" in a short interview in Saint Petersburg about 3 years ago, so he promoted Bagira-M designed by Phazontron as the first generation AESA for Russian navy.
    I believe the new 4000 ton frigate he mentioned is 22350 instead of 11356 whose Fregat radar was invented 20 years ago.
    I choose to believe what I read on that magazine considering A-A hasn't much AESA designing experience, the land version S-350 uses a PESA radar to guide 9M96 missiles, Poliment project was started long time ago and even today mass producing small and light TR unit in Russia is very questionable (radar antenna on 22350 is quite small).

    Can you send us a link to the Guskov's interview?
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    Post  xeno Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:30 am

    This interview is not available on the internet.
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:21 am

    Russia has years of experience with AESA radar, and T/R module mass production has now been available for quite a few years. If that article is 3 years old, it may make sense as T/R module production in Russia started roughly 2007. But it wouldn't make much sense now.
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    Post  Austin Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:09 am

    What CIWS system does Gorshkov has ?
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