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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

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    KomissarBojanchev
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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:26 pm

    I guess you're right, but still, what torpedo has 600km range?  In order to launch torpedos you need to be in a favorable position to the target. Unfortunately todays submarines cannot go more than 10kn/h near the battlegroup without being detected, so in effect it can't outrun and reposition itself if its behind the carrier.

    BTW whats so special about wake homing torpedos? Why can't you just throw around lots of soap bubbles all around surface as a decoy against them?

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Mike E on Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:56 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:I guess you're right, but still, what torpedo has 600km range?  In order to launch torpedos you need to be in a favorable position to the target. Unfortunately todays submarines cannot go more than 10kn/h near the battlegroup without being detected, so in effect it can't outrun and reposition itself if its behind the carrier.

    BTW whats so special about wake homing torpedos? Why can't you just throw around lots of soap bubbles all around surface as a decoy against them?
    None, but that isn't the point... The idea is that AShM's and torpedoes could be used in tandem to create an almost unstoppable offensive. As I've stated many times, Western ships have less defense against torpedoes than they do AShM's.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:51 am

    I guess you're right, but still, what torpedo has 600km range?

    They have what the west call captor mines, which are torpedoes designed to sit on the sea bed and wait for passing vessels. The listen to the sound signature and if they hear one of interest like an enemy SSN or SSBN they activate launching the torpedo at the target. These can be layed around the enemies main military ports with a 1 month, 6 month or 1 year delay before they activate...

    But you are right in that no torpedo is perfect just like all missiles are not perfect or imperfect.

    In order to launch torpedos you need to be in a favorable position to the target. Unfortunately todays submarines cannot go more than 10kn/h near the battlegroup without being detected, so in effect it can't outrun and reposition itself if its behind the carrier.

    You are quite right, but coastal SSK are very quiet... the US Navy can only detect them with active sonar and still only within a certain range... plenty of opportunities there...

    BTW whats so special about wake homing torpedos? Why can't you just throw around lots of soap bubbles all around surface as a decoy against them?

    Because Soap Bubbles don't have wakes...


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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:55 am

    None, but that isn't the point... The idea is that AShM's and torpedoes could be used in tandem to create an almost unstoppable offensive. As I've stated many times, Western ships have less defense against torpedoes than they do AShM's.

    The Soviets planned for Torpedo attacks to take place after the first barrage of anti ship missiles. taking advantage of the Chaos created by the first wave the SSNs slip in close to launch their torpedoes which would start arriving about the same time as the second wave of anti ship missiles.

    The result is some ships hit by the first anti ship missiles can be sunk by the follow up torpedoes, while ships manouving to avoid the anti ship missiles can make themselves vulnerable to the Torpedoes... any ships hit by the torpedoes will become very vulnerable to the second wave of Anti Ship Missiles.

    Don't think of one or the other... they don't replace each other, they compliment each other.


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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:38 pm

    what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Mike E on Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:11 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?
    What is the 1/3? Akula's can fire em', the Sierra as well... - Don't forget that all subs with a 533 mm torpedo tube can fire the RK-55, or the Klub (GarryB?).

    The 65 has a range of 100 km, by the way...

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:47 am

    Mike E wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?
    What is the 1/3? Akula's can fire em', the Sierra as well... - Don't forget that all subs with a 533 mm torpedo tube can fire the RK-55, or the Klub (GarryB?).

    The 65 has a range of 100 km, by the way...

    I thought the schukas and karps could fire only torpedos and ASW missiles. Well, I guess wikipedia fooled me this time.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:56 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?
    What is the 1/3? Akula's can fire em', the Sierra as well... - Don't forget that all subs with a 533 mm torpedo tube can fire the RK-55, or the Klub (GarryB?).

    The 65 has a range of 100 km, by the way...

    I thought the schukas and karps could fire only torpedos and ASW missiles. Well, I guess wikipedia fooled me this time.
    Anything with a 533 mm tube, or so I've heard... Any one else want to add on?

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:24 am

    what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?

    Subs and Ships of the Soviet Navy tended to have very specialised weapons.

    the main exception was the SS-N-14 which has a torpedo on a missile with a warhead and IR seeker.

    It was designed to fly to the target area under rocket propulsion at subsonic speed and then drop the torpedo into the water near where the enemy sub was expected.

    In the later models however there was a switch where the torpedo is not dropped and the whole weapon searches for and locks on to a ship using an IR sensor. There is a 300kg warhead on the rocket, plus the weight of the torpedo and its fuel make an excellent anti ship weapon... subsonic, but passive homing and very powerful payload.

    Most other weapons were single purpose... anti Ship or anti sub and none were land attack AND conventionally armed.

    New Russian Subs and ships and upgraded subs and ships have the UKSK system... or universal cruise missile launch system... which can carry land attack cruise missiles, subsonic and supersonic anti ship missiles and anti sub ballistic rocket delivery systems that deliver a torpedo out to about 40-50km.

    I thought the schukas and karps could fire only torpedos and ASW missiles. Well, I guess wikipedia fooled me this time.

    Both can launch SS-N-21 Granat, which is the old nuclear armed Kalibr, which suggests Kalibr can also be carried and fired. It also says it can carry SS-N-15 and SS-N-16... which are 533mm and 650mm calibre ballistic rockets delivering a torpedo or depth charge for ASW use.


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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I thought the schukas and karps could fire only torpedos and ASW missiles. Well, I guess wikipedia fooled me this time.

    Both can launch SS-N-21 Granat, which is the old nuclear armed Kalibr, which suggests Kalibr can also be carried and fired. It also says it can carry SS-N-15 and SS-N-16... which are 533mm and 650mm calibre ballistic rockets delivering a torpedo or depth charge for ASW use.
    That is what I was thinking... If it can fire the Granat, it should be able to fire the very similar Kalibr. - Which would add a ton of flexibility to the subs.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Viktor on Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:55 pm

    In a matter of several hours two new improvede Kilo subs will be layed down for Russian BSF russia

    Submarines "Novgorod" and "Kolpino" lay in St. Petersburg

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Mike E on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:39 pm



    russia russia russia

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:17 pm

    New Stealth Submarine to Join Russian Navy by End of Year: Defense Ministry

    Defense Ministry spokesperson announced that diesel-electric submarine Rostov-on-Don will join the Russian Navy by the end of 2014.

    MOSCOW, November 14 (Sputnik) – Russia's new Varshavyanka-class Rostov-on-Don submarine will be handed over to the Russian Navy by the end of the year, a Defense Ministry spokesperson said Friday.

    "The newest diesel-electric submarine Rostov-on-Don will complete trials and be in service by the end of 2014," said Igor Dygalo, an official representative of the Defense Ministry press and information service.

    It is the second Project 636.3 Varshavyanka submarine (NATO reporting name Improved Kilo-class) out of six planned for the Black Sea Fleet by the end of 2016. The first of the submarines – Novorossiysk – entered service in September.

    Varshavyanka-class diesel-electric subs feature advanced stealth technology, extended combat range and the ability to strike land, surface and underwater targets. They have been dubbed "black holes in the ocean" by the US Navy because they are virtually undetectable when submerged. The submarines are primarily intended for anti-ship and anti-submarine missions in relatively shallow waters.

    The Russian Black Sea Fleet has had no new submarines for decades and currently operates only one boat – the Kilo-class Alrosa, which joined the Navy in 1990.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:58 am

    Should be a nice improvement...


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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:28 pm

    I'd like to see AIP with these new boats.

    Would be a major boost in underwater performance.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:13 am

    Second 636.3 submarine project called "Rostov-on-Don" will be transferred to the Navy on December 19

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Viktor on Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:08 pm

    Vladikavkaz almost armed and ready to go thumbsup

    Tests of non-nuclear submarine "Vladikavkaz" held modernization will begin in January

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:17 am

    Russia's second Black Sea Fleet Varshavyanka sub to take northern deepwater trials

    "The Rostov-on-Don submarine should make a crossing to the Black Sea in the first half of 2015"

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:12 pm


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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  kvs on Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:48 pm

    Does anyone have any good references to the differences between Project 636.0 and 636.3?

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Austin on Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:01 pm

    kvs wrote:Does anyone have any good references to the differences between Project 636.0 and 636.3?

    Mostly much better acoustic quitening and better sonar performance and improved C&C system

    Other than that carries the Klub with range of 1500-2500 km range

    636.3 argubly the best kilo out there without the degrading that comes with export model 636

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:03 am

    Alrosa SSK. Is it in dock for repairs?





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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:05 am

    No, Alrosa is piered dockside in repairs right now. That pic is old.

    And it has been in repairs an absurd number of times. Went up to the North recently for repairs. Came down, and somehow is back in repairs already.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:47 am

    Pump jets are high maintainence.... but with it being the only pumpjet Kilo then they might include regular inspections too just to check on wear and tear for future pump jet designs.


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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:43 pm

    4th Submarine “Varshavyanka” to Be Launched in April

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