Project 885: Yasen class

GarryB wrote:Very true, but US ABM systems are designed to stop one or two warheads at a time.... not 1,500 targets and perhaps 10,000 decoys.

Mace currently probably has a warhead that will manouver a tiny amount to ensure it is on target... not enough to make it hard or impossible to hit... but with the end of the new Start treaty and gradual production of Borei going to 10 boats or more then the 10 warhead capacity of Bulava wont be needed, so fitting larger payloads with manouvering warheads to penetrate defence systems and perhaps even destroy ABM defences becomes more attractive.

The head nuclear submarine (nuclear submarine) of the upgraded project 885M (Yasen-M) Kazan will be handed over to the Russian Navy in December 2020, head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation ( USC ) Alexei Rakhmanov told RIA Novosti on Sunday .

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Russian AD cannot repel swarms of Nuclear Missiles, if you think that then you need to "wake up" and stop being such a fanboy.

GarryB wrote:Now that the INF treaty is essentially dead the US is likely to build up its forces around China... likely including developing new IRBMs... in the past China didn't really feel it needed much more than a token nuclear force to defend itself, but US escalation might make them rethink their policy which of course will make India want more nukes and therefore also Pakistan and I suspect both Japan and South Korea will want a nuclear missile capacity too...

The UK and France and Israel are pretty much under the same umbrella are they not?

GarryB wrote:
Why don't these three countries trust Uncle Sam?

Is it the speed at which all three countries have seen Uncle Sam throw countries under the bus in the past?

mnztr wrote:Why anyone would trust the US is beyond me, they have been abandoning allies for decades. They abandoned South Vietnam like a $2 whore when the North broke the peace deal and attacked.  Did not even supply enough ammo to the South Vietnamese military. Just hung them out to dry. Same with the Kurds they have screwed them so many times (although part of me feels they get their karmic reward). Now they are trying to abandon their allies in Afghantistan. Those people know they are dead meat if the US leaves so they keep trying to hinder the peace (surrender) deal.

The-thing-next-door wrote:You would need 2 extra Yasens to make up for the loss of an Antei.

I always used to think that the yasen had 80 or 64 missiles, but evidently the naval designers are morons. What is the actual number it can carry in its VLS again?

If I remember correctly it was about twice the number that the newly laid down Gorshkove can carry, but the Gorshkovs also carry air defence and are bloody conventionally fuelled frigates. Back in the 80s the submarines had more ASHMs than the missile cruisers, creating a new one that has less than the coming destroyers is simply insulting!    

Isos wrote:

Oscar is 2 times its size and has only 24 outdated granit (which could be 72 oniks if they upgrade it).

If they want an arsenal sub they will convert a borei with 200 cells instead of the BM. IMO it would be good to have 1 or 2 like that and borei are cheaper than Yasen and better than an Oscar.

The-thing-next-door wrote:You would need 2 extra Yasens to make up for the loss of an Antei.

The-thing-next-door wrote:...Why the hell would a Borei be cheaper than a Yasen? Is the Yasen's interior made of solid gold.