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    Project 885: Yasen class

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:49 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:This infographic doesn't show any 650mm torp tubes?

    I didnt find anything firm about 650 in Russian sources. Besides 650 was retired AFAIK.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:51 am

    Labrador wrote:Normaly Kazan for Northern Fleet after 2 others and 3 for Pacific in more the 885 Severodvinsk for NF to Zaozersk/Zapadnaya Litsa, 11th Subm Div with three 949 and a 671 active
    powerful SSGN but for Russians expensive

    Seawolf/Virignia
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Hole on Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:22 am

    The 650mm tubes were put on subs in the 70´s and 80´s to fire larger torpedos (against ships) and Vodopad ASW missiles. Today they can fire the ASW and anti-ship versions of the Kaliber through 533mm tubes.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:00 pm

    Hole wrote:The 650mm tubes were put on subs in the 70´s and 80´s to fire larger torpedos (against ships) and Vodopad ASW missiles. Today they can fire the ASW and anti-ship versions of the Kaliber through 533mm tubes.

    or 3m Poseidons cheers cheers cheers

    Labrador

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Labrador on Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:10 pm

    Hole wrote:The 650mm tubes were put on subs in the 70´s and 80´s to fire larger torpedos (against ships) and Vodopad ASW missiles. Today they can fire the ASW and anti-ship versions of the Kaliber through 533mm tubes.
    Especialy for Type 65/76 very big and long range torpedo to attack USN TFs

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Labrador wrote:Normaly Kazan for Northern Fleet after 2 others and 3 for Pacific in more the 885 Severodvinsk for NF to Zaozersk/Zapadnaya Litsa, 11th Subm Div with three 949 and a 671 active
    powerful SSGN but for Russians expensive

    Seawolf/Virignia

    What you means  scratch
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:57 pm

    Labrador wrote:
    Especialy for Type 65/76 very big and long range torpedo to attack USN TFs

    true, for some reason they were cancelled tho. More efficient cost/benefit solutions was found?



    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Seawolf/Virignia

    What you means  scratch

    Seawolf too expensive for US.

    PTURBG

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  PTURBG on Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:55 pm

    Maybe Russia has new secret 533mm torpedos with the same range and destructive power as 650mm ones.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:30 pm

    PTURBG wrote:Maybe Russia has new secret 533mm torpedos with the same range and destructive power as 650mm ones.

    Maybe I am still waiting for you to post something that contributes to this forum. Secret torpedoes no one is talking about doesn't cut it here, much less buying Chinese submarines or cancelling weapon sales to India.

    Make your next post count as it will determine if you can contribute or just a troll.
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Isos on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:42 pm

    Yasen has 650mm torpedo tubes. Those torpedo have ranges of 100km (for cold war era design), a new one could go even farther. They were designed specially against carriers because subs can't be detected so far.

    As the carrier are still very noisy and move often during deployment, even the torpedos from the 80s are still good against them.

    For anti sub they can allow the use of missile/torpedos to attack faster than with a 533mm torpedo which takes some minute almost an hour  to reach its max range while the missile-torpedo reaches it in matter of sec.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:27 am

    Isos wrote:Yasen has 650mm torpedo tubes. Those torpedo have ranges of 100km (for cold war era design), a new one could go even farther. They were designed specially against carriers because subs can't be detected so far.

    As the carrier are still very noisy and move often during deployment, even the torpedos from the 80s are still good against them.

    For anti sub they can allow the use of missile/torpedos to attack faster than with a 533mm torpedo which takes some minute almost an hour  to reach its max range while the missile-torpedo reaches it in matter of sec.

    Actually I could not find anything for sure that Kit (650mm topedo) is still in service. AFAIK after Kursk tragedy Kit was retired.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Labrador on Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:06 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Labrador wrote:
    Especialy for Type 65/76 very big and long range torpedo to attack USN TFs

    true, for some reason they were cancelled tho. More efficient cost/benefit solutions was found?



    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Seawolf/Virignia

    What you means  scratch

    Seawolf too expensive for US.  

    Mainly too expensive after end of Cold War and certain 885 have only 533 mm TLs x 10 possible 8 for 885M to see

    Not colored but very good ! 885



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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:29 am


    Probably superior depending on which sub we are taking about but moral of the story is: build more Yasens

    Russia’s Newest Yasen-Class Attack Submarines Are the Equal of America's Subs

    https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/russia-s-newest-yasen-class-attack-submarines-are-the-e-1829644713
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:55 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Probably superior depending on which sub we are taking about but moral of the story is: build more Yasens

    with up to 40 Kalibrs hidden 2000km from US/UK shores on ship can do nice "containing" of aggressive plans against Russia. I hope that they first build 10 885Ms instead of 1 medium CVN.




    Labrador wrote: certain 885 have only 533 mm TLs x 10 possible 8 for 885M to see

    I wonder why does she have so many torpedo tubes? for additional sub-Kalibrs to salvo?

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Labrador on Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:25 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Probably superior depending on which sub we are taking about but moral of the story is: build more Yasens

    with up to 40 Kalibrs hidden 2000km from US/UK shores on ship can do nice "containing" of aggressive plans against Russia. I hope that they first build 10 885Ms instead of 1 medium CVN.




    Labrador wrote: certain 885 have only 533 mm TLs x 10 possible 8 for 885M to see

    I wonder why does she have so many torpedo tubes? for additional sub-Kalibrs to salvo?

    More powerful than Virginia/Seawolf at less 62 weapons vs 50 and 37 remains a number ! but not completely sure each VLS have 4 Onyx or 5 Kalibr/Klub i see also 3 and 4 …
    Futur Virginia Block V lengthened is to 65 weapons ! first in service in 2024
    but US have and since always more silencious classes in more the last with pump jets Yasen don't have Astute also is excellent ! for nuclears for SSKs Type 212 and variant also very good
    and US have in general the best sonars

    Soviet/Russians have always had a big number of TLs US classes have 4 except Seawolf and on the side as the Yasen unique for a Russian same for Seawolf  special for a US with 8 big 660 mm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Probably superior depending on which sub we are taking about but moral of the story is: build more Yasens

    Maybe again more important the Fleet and quality USN have yet 19 Virginia/Seawolf* extremely silencious Russia one and each year 2 new Virginia…
    Yasen so expensive and latermore small Husky class


    * 52 SSNs with also 33 LA whose 22 very good 688i and 4 SSGN Ohio with 154 LACM !, Russia have 20 active SSN/SSGNs
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:20 pm


    Just because Pentagon says it's subs are quietest thing in the universe does not make it a fact

    China says the same about their subs

    My money is on Yasen here, granted they do need to build more

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:12 pm

    Labrador wrote:
    More powerful than Virginia/Seawolf at less 62 weapons vs 50 and 37 remains a number ! but not completely sure each VLS have 4 Onyx or 5 Kalibr/Klub i see also 3 and 4 …

    where? it would be interesting to know sources perhaps this make progress in discussion.



    but US have and since always more silencious classes in more the last with pump jets Yasen don't have Astute also is excellent ! for nuclears for SSKs Type 212 and variant also very goodand US have in general the best sonars

    Hmm  I just wonder how did they measure if this is quieter or not? it was something like an  jury remeasuring in same conditions with correctly calibrated apparatus? if not Im not sure how reliable is this statement. vide" some peoplebcalim F-35 is the best fighter in the World  lol1  lol1  lol1

    Best sonars same thing. Those sonars weren't able to detect neither oldish Chinese sub bumping against CSG or Russian "noisy"  SSN 971 roaming in Mexican bay.  I'm not sure how with service depths of  885  if pump-jet is really better.  Russians fitter PJ on Boreys and not Yasens for a reason. If you knwo more about acoustics/fluid dynamics perhaps we can move forward with discussion.



    Me thinks that not shaft but electicl propelled pump jet coupled  to nuclear power    plant  can  make a real difference.


    Soviet/Russians have always had a big number of TLs US classes have 4 except Seawolf and on the side as the Yasen unique for a Russian same for Seawolf  special for a US with 8 big 660 mm

    Then Soviets/Russians were ahead of US sub solutions  russia  russia  russia







    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:14 pm

    PapaDragon wrote: My money is on Yasen here, granted they do need to build more

    I also think investing in 885Ms until Husky gets into "serial production" makes more sense than masturbating about Shtorm class CVNs. 1 Shtorm = 10 Yasens.
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Isos on Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:28 pm

     I'm not sure how with service depths of  885  if pump-jet is really better.  Russians fitter PJ on Boreys and not Yasens for a reason. If you knwo more about acoustics/fluid dynamics perhaps we can move forward with discussion.

    I think I have seen that pump jet is quiter at low speed but at high speed it produces more noise than without.

    Yasen being attack subs they need to be able to follow carrier at high speeds. So they won't have pump jets. Borei need to be very quite so they have pump jet and they can move slowly under the ice where detection ranges are reduce to a few hundreds of m or a couple of km for older soviet subs, for borei it should be a totally safe zone.



    I also think investing in 885Ms until Husky gets into "serial production" makes more sense than masturbating about Shtorm class CVNs. 1 Shtorm = 10 Yasens.

    Can't compare, not the same role. If they buy one shtorm they will need a couple of SSN with it. Yasen is not an escort sub. It will operate alone with its missiles while smaller subs like akula or maybe husky wiĺ protect the carrier.

    1 shtorm = 10 Yasen is mathematicaly true but if tmr they say they won't buy shtorm it doesn't mean they will order 10 yasen the next day. Both side of the equation are expensive, husky is meant to be a cheaper alternative while yasen would be there to bring a big fire power.

    1-1.5 yasen for every US carrier would be very good. So 10-15 yasen and 15-20 husky for anti sub roles. While of course all the others are removed from service.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:01 am

    I also think investing in 885Ms until Husky gets into "serial production" makes more sense than masturbating about Shtorm class CVNs. 1 Shtorm = 10 Yasens.

    The obvious problem is that even 10 Yasens cannot control the airspace above a group of Russian surface ships outside range of Russian land based air power...

    Really a bit like saying that Ka-52Ks are cheaper than Su-57s so buy 10 Ka-52Ks instead of Su-57s...

    I mean you could... but having both would be better...

    I think I have seen that pump jet is quiter at low speed but at high speed it produces more noise than without.

    I would think the mass of a pump jet would be higher, so slower to speed up or slow down... so better for long range cruise than rapid thrust changes
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:02 am

    Well, The propulsive efficiency of pumpjet might be below the conventional propeller. Plus perhaps Russian think Yasen might operates near coast where we might see things like weeds or debris that might clog the pumpjet, and given the apparently tighter tolerance of pumpjet, it will be difficult to clean.

    SSBN in other hand might see more service in open ocean or depths of arctic. Where there could be less foreign objects to worry about and given the less requirement for speed and need for more stealth. Pumpjet will have advantage.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Singular_Transform on Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:23 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:Well, The propulsive efficiency of pumpjet might be below the conventional propeller. Plus perhaps Russian think Yasen might operates near coast where we might see things like weeds or debris that might clog the pumpjet, and given the apparently tighter tolerance of pumpjet, it will be difficult to clean.

    SSBN in other hand might see more service in open ocean or depths of arctic. Where there could be less foreign objects to worry about and given the less requirement for speed and need for more stealth. Pumpjet will have advantage.

    The pumpjet has a narrover operating speed, outside of that it will be less efficient than a conventional propeller.

    Means example low speed it is way less efficient ( and possibly more noisy ) than a conventional porpeller.

    So, it doesn't make sense to install it onto conventional submarines.

    The oposite is true as well, if the pump jet designed for x power, then x+ power can be less efficiet , probably more noisy .

    So, a nuclear submarine with pumpjet at slow speed is more noisy than a propller one.

    All of that showing that to use pumpjet require complex ballancing between many oposite design requirements.

    Including the fact the pumpjet is more heavy than a propller.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  hoom on Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:22 pm

    with up to 40 Kalibrs hidden 2000km from US/UK shores on ship can do nice "containing" of aggressive plans against Russia.
    Thats kinda like saying F-16s can drop precision laser guided bombs on Moscow.
    It could happen but its not likely or an intended scenario.
    Like Oscars the Yasens are for defense of SSBN bastions keeping CVBGs out.

    I think I have seen that pump jet is quiter at low speed but at high speed it produces more noise than without.
    Pretty sure its the other way round: low rpm big prop at low speeds but pump jet at medium+ speeds where the prop risks cavitating.
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Hole on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:42 am

    A goody from Mr. Sutton.


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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:26 pm

    I thaught Yasen M has 10 VLS and 8 torpedo tubes. This should be first Yasen boat.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:50 pm

    Gents, have anybody heard about gym (how equipped is) in Yasen subs?


    hoom wrote:
    with up to 40 Kalibrs hidden 2000km from US/UK shores on ship can do nice "containing" of aggressive plans against Russia.
    Thats kinda like saying F-16s can drop precision laser guided bombs on Moscow.
    It could happen but its not likely or an intended scenario.
    Like Oscars the Yasens are for defense of SSBN bastions keeping CVBGs out.

    Most of US metropolitan areas are coastal ones. Thinking about yet another possibility to receive salvo if CM can also have cooling effect. But perhaps you right. Poseidon are for coastal bases/cities. Bureverstniks can be too lol1 lol1

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