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    Project 885: Yasen class

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    kumbor

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    Post  kumbor on Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:44 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Both programmes are Cold War era designs that were put on the back burner for 20 years. If they can't get over delays at this point they will be obsolete before they get them all into service.

    Still better than relying on even older akulas, deltas and oscars.

    Husky is already started. It's gonna be the low price SSN they need. Boreis will operate under the north pole where even deltas can't be found no need better and it is pretty cheap. Yasen brings a fire power of 40 supersonic AShM and LACM for the size of an akula.

    In comparison to 2BN$ Virginias and similar price Astutes, Husky will be cheap indeed.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:56 am

    Actually if they can upgrade those nuclear powered cruise missiles to much higher speed... as there is no combustion to generate thrust then hypersonic speed should be achievable in theory and their unlimited range... even if they made them 6 tons each they are practically unlimited range cruise missiles... you could fit 150 into an SSBN so even if you put two relatively small and compact nuclear warheads inside them you could pretty much launch them from anywhere on the planet and have them flying at low altitude at say mach 3 which would be very hard to intercept because not very much moves at mach 3 at low altitude for very long...

    You could programme it to fly over multiple enemy targets and release a warhead over each one and then overload the reactor and detonate the last warhead inside the missile... why bother with SLBMs?

    They are really big and heavy and not invulnerable to ABM systems except with sophisticated warheads...

    Perhaps keep a mix... one third Boreis with SLBMs, one third with unlimited range cruise missiles, and one third with conventional cruise missiles that can be used in conventional conflicts...
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:54 am

    dino00 wrote:Source: Russian Defense Ministry and USC will sign a contract for two more Boreas and two Yasen-Mattack

    The construction of four ships is expected to begin within the framework of the state armament program until 2027.
    ...


    love Yours truly upon hearing this news:

    Project 885: Yasen class - Page 32 Tenor



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    owais.usmani

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    Post  owais.usmani on Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:43 am

    Just 2 more Yasen subs doesn't help much. Should have been more at least 6 more.

    Also with these subs now in serial production they should reduce the construction time for these to no more than 3 years per sub.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:46 pm

    Good enough for now... maybe Husky orders in the future too...
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:58 pm

    GarryB wrote:Good enough for now... maybe Husky orders in the future too...


    This order converts Yasens from limited edition to fully functional fleet

    4 for North, 4 for Pacific with lead ship as extra

    Even if they switch to Huskies after 9 ships they will still be left with class of subs in sufficient numbers to justify the effort and costs of building and maintaining them down the road





    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:25 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Good enough for now... maybe Husky orders in the future too...


    This order converts Yasens from limited edition to fully functional fleet

    4 for North, 4 for Pacific with lead ship as extra

    Even if they switch to Huskies after 9 ships they will still be left with class of subs in sufficient numbers to justify the effort and costs of building and maintaining them down the road

    They could sell or lease the first one to india and have only Yasen M in service. The money will be used to buy a new sub or a new destroyer. India wouldn't care if they pay more than the real price. 3 billion $ is a nice price.

    The money will be given to the russian navy and not to rosoboronexport. So it would free cash to use to order something new.

    The difference btw yasen and yasen M is huge as the first one was started in the 90s. They have already leased the best Akula to india while keeping older ones for them.

    Strategically speaking, it counters Chinese growth and india stays a big client whike they buy another and better sub with the money.
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    ult

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    Post  ult on Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:59 pm

    dino00 wrote:Source: Russian Defense Ministry and USC will sign a contract for two more Boreas and two Yasen-Mattack

    The construction of four ships is expected to begin within the framework of the state armament program until 2027.



    "At the Army-2019 forum, it is planned to sign a contract of the Ministry of Defense with USC to build two more Boreev-A and two Yaseni-M in addition to the already contracted submarines of these types," the agency’s source said. He added that "the construction of four ships will begin as part of the state armament program until 2027, but they will be handed over to the fleet after it is completed."

    The construction of the Boreyev and Ash-m for the Russian Navy is being conducted by the defense shipyard Sevmash. In accordance with the state armament program, designed for the period up to 2027, eight Boreans and seven Ash trees should be built and transferred to the fleet. To date, there are three Boreas of the basic project 955 (Yuri Dolgoruky, Alexander Nevsky and Vladimir Monomakh) in the naval squadron and one Project 855 Yasen (Severodvinsk). The head submarines of the upgraded projects 955A "Prince Vladimir" and 885M "Kazan" were built and are at the stage of factory trials.


    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6588073

    2 more Yasen-M is surprising.

    It's not surprising at all. Like always, Russia continues to sign smaller contracts. It's a standard practice for Ground forces, Navy and Air Force. You can bet that they will sign another contract for more Yasen's after that.
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:33 pm

    PapaDragon wrote: Russian Defense Ministry and USC will sign a contract for two more Boreas and two Yasen-Mattack

    Sensible decision, and totally expected IMHO Very Happy
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    Post  dino00 on Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:39 pm

    For me it was surprising. I thought they were done with Yasen-M submarines and going to the huskys instead, the borey maybe I expected the K version.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:38 pm

    ult wrote:It's not surprising at all. Like always, Russia continues to sign smaller contracts. It's a standard practice for Ground forces, Navy and Air Force. You can bet that they will sign another contract for more Yasen's after that.

    That would be excellent, Yasen's price may be high but oh boy so are the specs

    In this case paying extra is more than worth it

    Hopefully we will see the class reach double digits soon



    dino00 wrote:For me it was surprising. I thought they were done with Yasen-M submarines and going to the huskys instead, the borey maybe I expected the K version.


    Husky would be smaller and probably not as capable so Yasen is definitely preferable

    If they do want to get Huskies into the mix it would be smart to wait until one of other shipyards is ready to build them, it would give them much more flexibility

    As for Borei-K there is always option for them, Boreis are not as complex and expensive so it would be easier to throw them in the roster if needed



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    hoom

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    Post  hoom on Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:51 pm

    For me it was surprising. I thought they were done with Yasen-M submarines and going to the huskys instead, the borey maybe I expected the K version.
    I think ordering more Yasen-M implies Husky is still a long way away.

    Just 2 more Yasen subs doesn't help much. Should have been more at least 6 more.
    You do realise they're very large & expensive right?
    Yasen are nearly twice the displacement of Virginias, close to the size of UK/French SSBNs.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:53 am

    Ordering more Yasen-Ms means pressure on getting Huskies into production is greatly reduced and they can add more new technologies and newer equipment to improve performance without greatly increasing cost.

    Having a viable number of Yasens so they can be used as a group or groups is good in terms of their transition from custom made single purpose designs to larger numbers of multipurpose vessels is a good thing too.
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    Post  owais.usmani on Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:02 am

    hoom wrote:
    Just 2 more Yasen subs doesn't help much. Should have been more at least 6 more.
    You do realise they're very large & expensive right?
    Yes I know that, but I don't think Russia is short of cash.
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    Post  hoom on Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:24 am

    Russia certainly has limits to what it can afford to buy even though it gets a lot more for a given amount of $$$ than US/Western countries.

    Even with the sub fleet getting priority funding, building 2 more Yasens is going to mean a big chunk of budget not being spent on other stuff.
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    Post  dino00 on Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:16 pm

    Signed contract for 2 Yasen-M submarines

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/20196271757-mIMw0.html
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    ult

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    Post  ult on Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:26 pm

    Russian Navy to get two advanced Yasen-M subs under new state contract
    It was earlier reported that 46 state contracts worth over $15.9 billion had been concluded at the Army-2019 international military and technical forum

    KUBINKA /Moscow Region/, June 27. /TASS/. The Russian Navy will get two advanced Yasen-M multipurpose nuclear-powered submarines under a state contract concluded at the Army-2019 international military and technical forum, Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko said on Thursday.

    "Today is a large-scale event both for the Russian Armed Forces and for our defense industry. Today we have signed a number of large-scale deals. These are firm contracts to be more exact. They relate to the Su-57 [fifth-generation fighter jet] and modern air-launched weapons for this plane. These deals also cover two new Yasen-class submarines. These are substantial volumes and a very significant contract," the deputy defense minister said.

    It was earlier reported that 46 state contracts worth over 1 trillion rubles ($15.9 billion) had been concluded at the Army-2019 international military and technical forum in the presence of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

    https://tass.com/defense/1065923
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:15 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Hopefully we will see the class reach double digits soon

    would be great. 2 Yasens per CSGs. BTW Zircons/Kalibr -M could be the reason behind this.



    Paps wrote:
    Husky would be smaller and probably not as capable so Yasen is definitely preferable

    If they do want to get Huskies into the mix it would be smart to wait until one of other shipyards is ready to build them, it would give them much more flexibility

    As for Borei-K there is always option for them, Boreis are not as complex and expensive so it would be easier to throw them in the roster if needed


    1) No Husky anymore. There will be Lajka Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

    2) I would disagree on that. "In my IMHO" Lajka is gonna be capable but more Yasens means less strain on R&D to\ make Lajka much more capable.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:58 am

    The original plan called for ten so far 7 have been laid down.

    There is talk of two more, I don't think the class will be going past nine.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:18 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The original plan called for ten so far 7 have been laid down.

    There is talk of two more, I don't think the class will be going past nine.


    Could be but people thought that they wouldn't be going past seven and yet here we are

    Regardless, important thing here is that production line in Severodvinsk is kept full (I said the same for IL-476, keep it full and keep at it)

    Like Gunship said, it will give them not only fresh hulls but also plenty of time to complete Husky class design at leisurely pace and hopefully without cutting corners (yes, I'm still calling it Husky until they officially order it under different name, hopefully it stays Husky)




    Anyone care to guess what names will those two new boats get?

    SSGNs are named after large cities so what do we have available?





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    hoom

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    Post  hoom on Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:55 am

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Russian_Navy_ships
    Quite a lot of the names you might expect are actually in use already.
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    ult

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    Post  ult on Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:33 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The original plan called for ten so far 7 have been laid down.

    There is talk of two more, I don't think the class will be going past nine.

    It's not talks. It is a signed contract for two more.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:42 am

    ult wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The original plan called for ten so far 7 have been laid down.

    There is talk of two more, I don't think the class will be going past nine.

    It's not talks. It is a signed contract for two more.

    Yes, they were but until ships are laid its talk.

    Sometimes companies drop out of contracts and default it happens.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:10 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    ult wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The original plan called for ten so far 7 have been laid down.

    There is talk of two more, I don't think the class will be going past nine.

    It's not talks. It is a signed contract for two more.

    Yes, they were but until ships are laid its talk.

    Sometimes companies drop out of contracts and default it happens.


    This is Severodvinsk shipyard we are taking about, they have less chances of dropping out of contract than NASA and less chances of default than Lockheed Martin

    They didn't default when USSR disintegrated and when Russia stopped existing for the whole decade

    Besides there are no other submarine options on the table, this is it




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    Post  hoom on Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:51 am

    Personally I'd like to see another 1 or 2 of the already in-build launched before they start building more.
    I'm hoping with Kazan, Knyaz Vladimir & Belgorod fairly recently launched, Khabarovsk soon (or already?) they can focus effort & the in-build Yasens start coming out quicker.

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