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    Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

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    Austin
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Austin on Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:27 pm

    Yes I would agree with that argument , in the end in a war you would really want every ship to pack maximum punch , they are planning to build 35 corvette so thats really good numbers.

    Read up on the Warship Technology: Russian Naval Programs that I posted on Russia Navy Status its a nice brief plus it has a article on 20380 corvette program.

    there is a new 10 thousand ton destroyer under development so thats really a capable ship.

    GarryB
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:20 am

    Indeed and the unification of sensors and weapons plus the Sigma data sharing system means that some small stealthy vessels that have a full picture of what is happening on, under and above the sea might be very useful while remaining radar and electronically silent itself.

    An incoming Sunburn, or the signature of the specific radar used to guide sunburns told you you were facing a Sovremmeny Class Destroyer... now it could be anything.

    By unifying the launchers and making the ships multirole so instead of 10 fast missile attack vessels armed with Yakhont or Brahmos, 10 Torpedo vessels with torpedoes, and 15 cheaper gun/fast attach boats with a 76.2mm automatic gun and Uran subsonic anti ship boats they can instead build 35 boats of one type and when they need a group of fast attack boats and torpedo boats they can load up Clubs and Brahmos missiles for the missile vessels and the ASROC type Club missiles for the torpedo boats and they all have 100mm automatic guns.

    With the experience of the smaller vessels they can start on larger projects with some confidence that the systems and weapons work on a smaller scale.

    A 10K ton Destroy could have dozens of USUK launchers and Redut AD launchers... with corvettes carrying 100mm guns I wonder if the Destroyer will have one of the new 152mm guns they are working on (related to the Armys Coalition).


    medo
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  medo on Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:46 pm

    Why is Steregushy class ship called corvette, when it is larger and better armed than Gepard class frigate? Buyan class is corvette and is far smaller than Steregushy.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Austin on Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:34 pm

    medo wrote:Why is Steregushy class ship called corvette, when it is larger and better armed than Gepard class frigate? Buyan class is corvette and is far smaller than Steregushy.

    Generally corvettes are classified as class ships with displacement between 1000 to 3000 tons ,its also depends on individual countries on how they would like to classify it.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:59 am

    Different countries and different navies have different classifications, but a Corvette is basically larger than a small patrol craft but smaller than a Frigate.

    In many ways some large Corvettes could easily be called Frigates and some small Frigates called Corvettes.

    medo
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  medo on Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:03 pm

    Gepard class (Dagestan) and Steregushy class are both in Russian navy, Steregushy in Baltic sea, Gepard in Caspian sea. Both are around 100 m long and around the same weight. Steregushy is called corvette and Gepard is called frigate. Maybe it depend on fleet or Sea in which they operate.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:59 am

    Maybe it depend on fleet or Sea in which they operate.

    A Big fish in a little sea is a small fish in the open ocean...

    The Buyan is specially designed for brown water operations able to operate in shallow waters in rivers and lakes and coastal areas.

    The Gepard and Steregushy class are more for coastal patrol, but of course in the Caspian a Gepard has more of a leadership role and so is promoted to Frigate... which is very much a general purpose ship.

    In many ways Corvettes and Frigates are just fancy names for big naval patrol vessels... Frigates normally have helicopters, which Corvettes normally don't have which tends to make Frigates a bit more flexible and useful for patrol duties.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:18 pm

    Russian Navy signed a contract to build radar stations for corvettes

    August 25, 2011
    Russian Navy signed a contract with "Fazotron-NIIR" to create a radar station for ships of class "corvette." Now experts "Fazotron-NIIR" are working on the development of radar. The company receives funding from the Defense Ministry. The first sample of the new ship's radar (SAR) will be presented in 2011, Interfax reported. General Designer "Fazotron-NIIR" did not disclose the number of the project nor what ships will receive new radar system. It's presumed it will be Project 20380 corvettes.

    Source: The Russian shipbuilding portal, August 25, 2011, http://shipbuilding.ru/rus/news/ russian/2011/08/25/Phazotron_korvet_250811 /

    The new radar is possibly the one shown below. The pictures are from a recent exhibition and the system is reportedly called "Integral" and is a development of the Zhuk-A radar for the Mig-35.



    click


    The OLS unit above the radar is a «Sphere-02»
    http://www.eng.npo-karat.ru/catalog/11-5/

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:46 pm

    Photos of that system have been posted here before... either by Austin or Medo.

    They look like a very interesting combination.

    The Russian navy is starting to streamline its systems and equipment, so it will be interesting what they do regarding sensors.

    Previously each weapon system had its own separate sensor suite which resulted in Soviet ships looking very cluttered, whereas western ships tended to use a radar for multiple purposes and often looked empty in comparison.

    It will be interesting to see if this radar/optronic system is a separate system mounted high on a mast for a good 360 degree view that supplies data to the onboard C4IR system, or whether it is perhaps to replace some radars used for certain systems.

    An example would be the Laska radar directors used on small ships that could control 1 or more gun positions from 30mm CIWS gatling guns through 57mm, 76.2mm and 100mm and even 130mm gun turrets.

    In comparison on a western vessel the 20mm Phalanx would have its own dedicated radar while the other guns might use data from the main surface search radar on the ship.

    Such a radar/optronic system on a small vessel could control several 30mm gun turrets or a Pantsir-S1 system with its radar and optronics removed to make it more stealthy perhaps.

    Will be interesting to see where they put it and whether it effects the sensors provided for other weapons.

    It might just be for general surveillance to look out for small pirate speed boats and to look at distant targets optically for the purposes of ID.

    Thanks for posting.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:03 pm

    BTW here is a photo of the Palma system with 30mm gatlings and SOSNA-R laser beam riding missiles and as you can see it has a lot of optical ports:



    The reason I post it is because it seems to have a similar number of optical ports as the system above and I also have a chart in Russian that describes the function of each optical port in the EO ball which is here:



    And I was hoping that if someone could translate the names of the ports we could perhaps work out what the optical ports on the Sphere system are.

    I am guessing that the larger two ports on the left is long range digital camera with high magnification on top and thermal sight below.
    I am also guessing that perhaps the middle two ports on the right side are probably for lasers for beam riding missiles and laser spot seeking missiles (Semi active laser homing) as well as for laser ranging.
    This leaves two ports... perhaps low light level television and a gionometer to track outgoing missiles?

    (Of course the ports in the Palma system are dedicated to search and track targets and guide laser beam riding missiles to targets so obviously there is no guarantee they will have any relation to the ports on the Sphere system... but I think it is interesting.)

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:17 pm

    My attempt at translation...

    Left

    1. Receiving channel for LRF
    2. Laser emitting channel for SAMs
    3. Thermal ch. for (??)
    4. Thermal channel for "bearing finder??" for SAMs

    Right

    1. Emitting channel for LRF
    2. Main Thermal channel

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Gagydza on Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:45 am

    Cyberspec wrote:My attempt at translation...

    Left

    1. Receiving channel for LRF
    2. Laser emitting channel for SAMs
    3. Thermal ch. for (??)
    4. Thermal channel for "bearing finder??" for SAMs
    Number 3 is television guidance system.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:50 am

    Thanks for that guys:
    So we have... in no specific order, two ports for the optical laser range finder (LRF) for transmitting and receiving the laser, a laser emitting port for laser beam riding missiles (LTM or laser target marker), a television port... presumably for the operator to use in combination with a set of cross hairs and auto tracking software to find and lock targets, a thermal channel for "bearing finder" for SAMs is a goniometer port that tracks the actual position in the field of view of launched missiles so their deviation from the target can be calculated by the guidance system and the needed course corrections for the missile can be transmitted to the missile to get it on target.
    (note the goniometer is for command guided missiles only as beam riding missiles work out where they are in the laser beam and manoeuvre themselves onto the point of aim.)
    The main thermal channel would be used like the TV channel in adverse weather conditions, at night, or to see through some types of camouflage or some types of smoke or even light vegetation.

    So
    LRF = 2 ports
    LTM = 1 port
    DTV = 1 port
    Goniometer = 1 port
    Thermal Imager = 1 port

    The goniometer and thermal imager ports don't need optically transparent lenses so they can look gold coloured or even white or black because not only do they not need to be transparent to visible light it is often better if they aren't as it prevents distractions.
    The digital TV sight will often have a telescopic lens that is not that large, thermal imager often have a large surface area in comparison.

    So taking all this and looking at the new EO system based on looking at the system for the Palma system the laser emitter is a small port while the laser receiver is larger. The biggest is the thermal port... so my guess would be this:



    The main thing I am not totally sure of is whether the DTV and LTM are around the right way.

    The larger port I have marked for the DTV could be a very large aperture laser that is used for target marking for semi active laser homing weapons (ie a laser spot is projected on to the target and weapons from the ship or other platforms can use that to guide on to) or a much less powerful beam for laser beam riders like SOSNA-R.

    If we look at the advertisement photo on the site above for the EO system it is shown mounted on one side of the mast near the funnel suggesting there would be another positioned on the other side to give a complete field of view coverage. If both can mark targets and can be used to identify objects in the water or in the air then they greatly increase the ships potential to protect itself.

    For instance on a ship with a 57mm gun mount and a Pantsir-S1 turret or two these optic turrets could mark incoming anti ship missile from a higher angle, seeing targets further out and clear of sea spray for guided 57mm cannon shells, so with the 57mm gun pumping out shells at 120 rounds per minute and with at least two optical EO systems on the mast together with the 4-5 targets per minute the Pantsir-S1 can engage with missiles and guns... plus with the accuracy of a laser range finder a small ship can have a formidible close in defence capacity even ignoring any medium SAMs it might have.

    A Goniometer can measure deviation between the line of sight and an IR emitting object... which is normally a missile. It could easily be the cannon shells from a Duet turret with IR tracer elements in their tail, so it could assist in that engagement too.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  medo on Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:43 pm

    I think DTV is marked correctly, because it is very similar to DTV used in Pantsir-S1.

    It looks like Zhuk AESA radar is actually working design, that it will be used on the ship and in KA-52 helicopter. Interesting is, that in all platforms (Mig-35, Ka-52 and Steregushy slass corvettes) Zhuk radar works with EO/IR complex, what could mean that radar electronic itself could use data from EO complex and comparing pictures and than give picture on display and to central computer. That could make system faster and more immune on electronic warfare.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:22 pm

    Good work

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:58 am

    That would make its operation similar to the IRST/radar setup in the Soviet 4th gen fighters like the Mig-29 and Su-27 in the sense that they could work together against targets.

    An optical system will always have better angular tracking accuracy than a radar because the radar centre of an object is not necessarily the actual centre of an object and from some angles some shapes have radar centres that are not even part of the aircraft.

    In many ways the best compromise is to use and optical system to track close targets and use the radar for ranging. With the angular information from the the optical system the radar beam can be steered very accurately so no scan to find the target is needed, which limits the radars use to a ranging pulse of relatively low power... pretty much the same as a LPI mode but with any type of radar.

    medo
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  medo on Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:59 pm

    True, but I'm not sure if radar in Mig-29 and Su-27 could itself use IRST picture and compare it with its own, or they independently show their picture on the screen and pilot compare them. But of course Radar/IRST combination is not something totally new.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:58 am

    The IRSTs didn't create pictures, they detected and locked on discrete targets and could be used to direct the seeker of a missile (IR or SARH at the time and now ARH) to a target. It could also direct the radar to that target without the radar having to scan for the target.

    For close range targets the ranging could be done in radar silence using a laser but in the early models that was only to about 8km.

    For Mig-29M I believe the laser ranging extended to about 14-15km and with the Mig-35 it is 20km for air and 25km for ground target ranging and marking.

    In naval use I would suspect the radar will be used for detection as it has full 360 degree all weather day and night coverage with electronic scanning it could scan the entire 360 degrees around the vessel in a millisecond... because nothing needs to move... it would just be radar elements turned on and off.

    Any object of interest would result in the optical ball turning to view and a powerful zoom lense no doubt used to examine the threat and identify whether it is an incoming cruise missile or a cessna or UAV or whatever.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:07 am

    Second stealth corvette joins Russian Navy

    RIA Novosti

    00:47 14/10/2011

    ST. PETERSBURG, October 14 (RIA Novosti) - St. Petersburg's Severnaya Verf shipyard will deliver a new stealth corvette to the Russian Navy at an official ceremony on Friday.

    The Soobrazitelny is the second Project 20380 or Steregushchy class corvette designed by the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau.

    “The corvette features innovative solutions regarding hull design, armament, communications and electronics,” the shipyard said in a statement.

    The first Project 20380 corvette, the Steregushchy, was put into service with Russia's Baltic Fleet in October 2008, and two other ships of the same series, the Boyky and the Stoyky, are under construction.

    The Steregushchy class corvette can be deployed to destroy enemy surface ships, submarines and aircraft, and to provide artillery support for beach landings. Advanced stealth technology is used to reduce the ship's secondary radar field, as well as its acoustic, infrared, magnetic and visual signatures.

    Russia plans to have up to 30 vessels of this class to ensure the protection of its coastal waters, as well as its oil and gas transportation routes, especially in the Black and the Baltic seas.

    The corvette Soobrazitelny

    Each corvette has a displacement of 2,000 metric tons, maximum speed of 27 knots, and a crew of 100.

    The ship's armament includes SS-N-25 Switchblade anti-ship cruise missiles, a 100-mm gun, a variety of air defense and anti-submarine systems, and a Ka-27 Helix ASW helicopter.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2011/russia-111014-rianovosti01.htm

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  medo on Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:03 pm

    If I'm correct Gremyashy will be the seventh ship of Steregushy class.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:12 pm

    medo wrote:If I'm correct Gremyashy will be the seventh ship of Steregushy class.

    No,it will be the sixth:

    Steregushy
    Soobrazitelny
    Boiky
    Stoiky
    Sovershenny (Building in the far East)
    Gremyashy

    You may be confused with another name "Provorny", No ship with that name was laid down.

    By the way, the differences in armament (between 20380 and 20385) are highlighted in this comparison picture:
    (Red is for anti-ship missiles cells, green for anti-air)


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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Viktor on Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:48 pm

    I wonder what will occupy space where antiship missiles on 20380 where?

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:19 am

    Note that the newer version is a bit longer, but unfortunately I have no idea how the interior has been re-arranged.
    There is talk that the 20385 has a proper galley and is better suited for longer times at sea. The first two units were limited in endurance because of a lack of a proper galley, inadequate catering and other facilities.



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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  runaway on Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:02 am

    TheArmenian wrote:Note that the newer version is a bit longer, but unfortunately I have no idea how the interior has been re-arranged.
    There is talk that the 20385 has a proper galley and is better suited for longer times at sea. The first two units were limited in endurance because of a lack of a proper galley, inadequate catering and other facilities.

    Proper galley? I dont think i have ever heard that limiting a warship. A small galley is perhaps tiresome on long journeys, but sailors can make do, and there is rations...
    Only thing limiting my ship was fuel and water. Hm, not that swedish navy needs so long endurance as russians.

    And serving on a ship vs Army means always a hot meal and a soft bunk to sleep in.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:13 am

    Most Navies AFAIK limit the amount of operation duration for ships based on food and water because refuelling and rearming at sea are standard practise.

    If a ship is too small to have a proper galley where fresh food is prepared daily then you basically feed the crew on the equivalent of TV dinner type meals... 2-3 weeks of that and you will have a mutiny!!!

    Regarding the Redut SAM system... the whole concept behind it and the UKSK is standardisation... which only makes sense if the system in every case is the same.

    The Redut system on Corvettes will be the same as on Aircraft Carriers (note they are putting Redut on the Kuznetsov to replace the Klintok system and the Mistrals will likely get them too) so in theory they will be able to take all the big and small missiles of the RIF and later model Naval SAMs.

    Very much the same as the UKSK launchers fitted to corvettes will be able to carry 2,000km range land attack cruise missiles, but more likely will carry a mix of Yakhont and the anti ship model of Kalibr... which makes them a combination of the old light patrol missile craft and the old light patrol torpedo craft.

    Their own sensors would make fitting 400km range SAMs pointless, but their Sigma battle management system allowing them to communicate with other ships and subs and share data on the air, sea surface and underwater target picture would allow them to be the launch platform against long range targets with a good chance of success.

    Again, I repeat, this would be only in very specialist circumstances that would need preparation and planning but is still an option.

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