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    Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

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    GarryB
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:33 am

    My understanding is that that is still an ARM but with backup guidance options...

    A large radar generates a lot of heat that is rather hard to hide.

    For instance an AWACS aircraft could be targeted based on its radar emissions, but if shut down when the incoming missile is detected then the missile would still detect the heat signature of the target and home in on the turned off radar system.

    The same would apply to ground based radar... I would suspect with a naval vessel the IR signature of the vessel against the water at a different temperature would allow engagement but again I suspect the engagement of the radar would result in trivial/ie not terminal damage as the radar arrays would be hit but the hull would not likely be penetrated.

    Of course taking out the main radar array would leave the vessel vulnerable to attack from more conventional missiles.

    Did Russia buy that version? I was under the impression that they did not.

    Have heard all sorts of rumours... mostly from western sources about them not working. If they want them their new vessels all have UKSK launchers which are compatible with Onyx, Zircon, Calibr... which is the long range land attack version of Klub, and also the rocket powered torpedo delivering Klub model.. I don't see why they would not buy the anti ship subsonic and anti ship supersonic models of Klub too... there is talk of a supersonic anti ship missile in Russian service with a range of 1,500km... sounds like supersonic Klub to me. the whole purpose of a subsonic cruising stage and a supersonic terminal stage is maximum range and max effect in the terminal phase... it ticks all the boxes.


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    9M96 uplinking question

    Post  r3mu511 on Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:00 am

    I was wondering if anyone knew what equipment was providing the midcourse guidance update uplinks to the 9M96 missile from the corvette?

    on the Gorshkov-class frigate the Poliment 5P-20K radar provides this midcourse uplinking, while on the land-based S-350 Vityaz the 50N6 radar does this uplinking, similarly for S-300/-400 systems the Tombstone/Gravestone will perform the uplinks...

    but what equipment is performing the midcourse uplinks for the 9M96 on the Steregushchy corvette?

    or are they not using midcourse update uplinks and instead launching the 9M96 with just it's initial, pre-launch ARH seeker INS activation point and once launched no further seeker activation point updates are done?
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:48 am

    or are they not using midcourse update uplinks and instead launching the 9M96 with just it's initial, pre-launch ARH seeker INS activation point and once launched no further seeker activation point updates are done?
    That's apparently the big issue.
    Supposedly the Puma radar may be able to do it but definitely not optimal.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  r3mu511 on Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:28 pm

    ^thanks, would you happen to have a url/link to a reference on the use of the 5P-10E radar to perform the midcourse uplinking to the 9M96?

    per the manufacturer's website (concern-agat.ru / en / production / artillery-systems-fire-control-systems / 5p-10e-radar-control-system), this FCR has a tracking range of around 60 km which would mean it would only be useful with the 40 km range variant of the 9M96, so does this then mean the Steregushchy does not use the 120 km missile variant?
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:51 pm

    Sorry, I don't think I'd be able to find it again (wish I'd kept the URL) but mentioned the article in previous post http://www.russiadefence.net/t47p300-project-2038-0-steregushchy-corvette#172731, as I said there it could be a case of Lost in Translation or outright wrong since it referenced the IR & unspotted 9M100 -> handful of salt.
    But as far as I understand it's either that or just initial inertial with no updates scratch

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  r3mu511 on Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:05 pm

    ^ok, thanks
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:59 pm

    Yeah, almost certainly only the mid-range 9M96.
    Similar to a lot of smallish ships with Mk41: technically can fit Standard missiles but lack the radar power for it -> ESSM only.

    The Furke is possibly shorter ranged than Puma so it could only hope to use the long range 9M96 in some kind of network-centric scenario using targeting data (& updates?) via other platform.
    The combat system is supposed to be capable of that kind of thing though.
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:51 am

    Hmm, I wonder how much the sudden progress on Sovershennyy is to do with this http://flotprom.ru/2016/%D0%9E%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0211/
    Amur shipyard got/getting a 7 billion rubles payment.
    But is it payment because progress is made or progress because payment is made? Neutral
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:39 pm

    Apologies for triple post pale

    ^thanks, would you happen to have a url/link to a reference on the use of the 5P-10E radar to perform the midcourse uplinking to the 9M96?
    I don't think its what I'd previously seen but found this http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-450.html
    Google translate wrote:Radar "Furke-2" does not have the alleged possibilities of support goals for SAM, and the JMA "Puma" gun mount could issue tselelukazanie with conjugation with SAM through CICS "Sigma", but given the type of CICS supposedly has a sufficiently large dead time, inappropriate for actual defense tasks

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  r3mu511 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:43 am

    ^thanks... since it seems the info on the Puma is mostly pre-2013, I wonder if they have now found another means to provide midcourse uplinking for the missiles? if not then it might indeed be like you've said that perhaps no midcourse updates are used...

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Ned86 on Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:37 am

    Just for size comparison, Project 20380(light frigate) officially Corvette and Large project 956 destroyers.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:27 am

    Russia’s Pacific Fleet to commission corvette Sovershenny in Jan-Jun

    At present, the ship is doing seaworthiness trial tests under the control of the Fleet’s military specialists on armament systems, communications air defenses, radio-electronic warfare

    VLADIVOSTOK, January 10. /TASS/. The Pacific Fleet, a territorial division of the Russian Navy, plans to commission the corvette Sovershenny (Unbeatable) in the first half of 2017, the press service of the Fleet said on Tuesday.

    "The Pacific Fleet will put the corvette Sovershenny on its table of equipment in the first half of 2017," the report said. "At present, the ship is doing seaworthiness trial tests under the control of the Fleet’s military specialists on armament systems, communications air defenses, radioelectronic warfare, and other aspects."

    The Sovershenny was laid down at the Amur shipbuilding yards in the Far East of Russia back in 2006 and launched in 2015. The Deputy Chief of the Russian Navy, Viktor Bursuk said last year the military hoped to put it into service before the end of 2016.

    Project 20380 family corvettes are the ships of the shore maritime zone with capabilities for conducting combat against ships and submarine and rendering fire support during landfall operations.

    They have water displacement of about 2,200 tons, a speed of about 27 knots (27 nautical miles or 42.6 km per hour), and the unescorted transit distance of 4,000 nautical miles (7,200 km).

    Their combat equipment consists of anti-ship and air defense systems, as well as gunnery and antisubmarine complexes. Each corvette in the family carries a helicopter aboard.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/924148


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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:26 am

    Hopefully the next one won't take quite so long to complete...
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:36 pm

    George1 wrote:The Pacific Fleet, a territorial division of the Russian Navy, plans to commission the corvette Sovershenny (Unbeatable) in the first half of 2017

    The Sovershenny was laid down at the Amur shipbuilding yards in the Far East of Russia back in 2006 and launched in 2015. The Deputy Chief of the Russian Navy, Viktor Bursuk said last year the military hoped to put it into service before the end of 2016.

    11 years for a corvette is terrible.
    Also "first half of 2017" lingo has a familiar ring to it silent
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:25 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    George1 wrote:The Pacific Fleet, a territorial division of the Russian Navy, plans to commission the corvette Sovershenny (Unbeatable) in the first half of 2017

    The Sovershenny was laid down at the Amur shipbuilding yards in the Far East of Russia back in 2006 and launched in 2015. The Deputy Chief of the Russian Navy, Viktor Bursuk said last year the military hoped to put it into service before the end of 2016.

    11 years for a corvette is terrible.
    Also "first half of 2017" lingo has a familiar ring to it silent

    It's more the tonnage of a light frigate but 11 years for a 3Ton ship is beyond terrible.
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Isos on Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:34 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    George1 wrote:The Pacific Fleet, a territorial division of the Russian Navy, plans to commission the corvette Sovershenny (Unbeatable) in the first half of 2017

    The Sovershenny was laid down at the Amur shipbuilding yards in the Far East of Russia back in 2006 and launched in 2015. The Deputy Chief of the Russian Navy, Viktor Bursuk said last year the military hoped to put it into service before the end of 2016.

    11 years for a corvette is terrible.
    Also "first half of 2017" lingo has a familiar ring to it silent

    It's more the tonnage of a light frigate but 11 years for a 3Ton ship is beyond terrible.

    Nothing to do with the structure. The problems are money and integration of Advanced system. Building just the structure can be done in less than a year.
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:52 pm

    Guys,

    Please refrain from quoting KiloGolf.

    Look at his posts on the various threads. He and his cohort (Militarov) are spreading only negativity about Russian Navy, Kuznetsov carrier, Russian welding etc. etc.

    I give them the benefit of doubt for too long. But it turns out that they have an agenda. Enough is enough.
    I don't want to waste my time reading their garbage.
    So, I have used the ignore function for these clown posters and I am now enjoying the forum to its fullest.

    It is up to you to reply to their cacophony. If you want to do so, please go ahead but don't use the "quote" function because their post will show up.

    Thanks

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:14 am

    TheArmenian wrote:Guys,

    Please refrain from quoting KiloGolf.

    Look at his posts on the various threads. He and his cohort (Militarov) are spreading only negativity about Russian Navy, Kuznetsov carrier, Russian welding etc. etc.

    I give them the benefit of doubt for too long. But it turns out that they have an agenda. Enough is enough.
    I don't want to waste my time reading their garbage.
    So, I have used the ignore function for these clown posters and I am now enjoying the forum to its fullest.

    It is up to you to reply to their cacophony. If you want to do so, please go ahead but don't use the "quote" function because their post will show up.

    Thanks


    In all fairness there I have seen them posts none negativity about russian gear.

    That said it's no secret the Russian navy isn't in good shape there is nothing wrong with commenting on that. This is a forum for discussion no? no kiss assing.

    Comments both negative and positive should be welcome. I have critical doubts about the Navy but I do think their aircraft and tanks are top notch stuff.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  marat on Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:57 am

    TheArmenian wrote:Guys,

    Please refrain from quoting KiloGolf.

    Look at his posts on the various threads. He and his cohort (Militarov) are spreading only negativity about Russian Navy, Kuznetsov carrier, Russian welding etc. etc.

    I give them the benefit of doubt for too long. But it turns out that they have an agenda. Enough is enough.
    I don't want to waste my time reading their garbage.
    So, I have used the ignore function for these clown posters and I am now enjoying the forum to its fullest.

    It is up to you to reply to their cacophony. If you want to do so, please go ahead but don't use the "quote" function because their post will show up.

    Thanks


    WTF????
    11 years for 2k ship is disaster and  that should and have to be said loud and clearly.  Kuznetsov lost 2 great fighters for being not fitted for usage.

    Just imagine it was in war  in real war with seriouse enemy not like action he had in Syria, somwhere in ocean and that he send 10 SU 33 on mission. All 10 of them would be lost becouse stupid cable.....and fleet he should protect would lost cover. That is a very seriouse issue. Ship proved himself as dangerouse for its fighters and not reliable protector of fleet.

    And welding was terrible.

    Covering the truth and not pointing at bad things you did will not help you to improve yourself.

    Addmiting that you made mistake and that you have a problem is first step in problem resolving.

    Russia did some great things and do produce great weapons and equipement, thats why we like Russia and thats why we are here. But there are sectors as shipbuilding industry in which they are not good enought today.
    I hope they will be better and that next two Corvetes for Pacific fleet will be completed soon.

    What is status of Gromkiy? He is also 4 years in production and that is also too long for ship of its size.
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:45 am

    Covering the truth and not pointing at bad things you did will not help you to improve yourself.

    Who is covering up the truth?

    This is an internet forum... focusing on the bad things only and whining that Russia is not better than the US or the UK or the EU will not effect Russia in any way or form.

    Addmiting that you made mistake and that you have a problem is first step in problem resolving.

    Ahhh... so admitting that the Russian Navy is all crap will suddenly stop the Ukraine from sanctions restricting access to propulsion systems and all of a sudden Poliment redut will work fine.

    Trolling on a forum wont solve any problems.

    But there are sectors as shipbuilding industry in which they are not good enought today.

    You say that... all the people involved should be fired I guess. There will always be problems.... with any navy... for instance the US Navy can't build a conventional sub to save its own ass... and its new carriers are ridiculously expensive sitting targets.

    I hope they will be better and that next two Corvetes for Pacific fleet will be completed soon.

    They will be ready when they are ready... how old are you... 12?


    What is status of Gromkiy? He is also 4 years in production and that is also too long for ship of its size.

    And that is the heart of the problem... a 2,000 ton ship must be completed within 3 years or else your navy is crap. What are the problems and issues? What solutions are there?

    They could put out thousands of small ships and be building larger ships right now... it is easy... just make them crap with old technology and old weapons.


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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Isos on Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:29 pm

    Russian ships are very good but they can't buy lot of them immediatly. Yassen, grigorovitch, gorshkov, impro kilo ... Very good but they have like one or two them that won't be decisive in a battle against NATO, that's why they are focusing on nulear weapons.

    Russian navy is well trained and very good as a power, not superpower. Most navy's on the world won't attack them. But if you are comparing it with NATO yes it's a crap navy even French, german, UK, US navies are crap if you compare them with NATO. It's the richest countries with the best technlogy in one entity. You can't do anything against that. So having 1 gorshkov, 1 yassen and lot of older but still capable ship is more than enough for a one vs one comparison.

    Against China, there are more and more comparison with china these days, it will act very good as china is not a blue navy at all and the SNA would just destroy all the pseudo-frigate destroyer that china has. The quality of their ship is really bad. 20 years ago they made 0 ship and now they build 40 per years. It's impossible they have good quality ships, the fact they make lot of them proves that they are chosing quantity over quality. The recent Attack on US ship with chinese missiles shows how it's easy to jamm them.

    The same way a west navy like UK's won't be able to do anything against an alliance Russia-China. their destroyer don't even have anti ship missiles... So Russian navy is very good.

    Like I said the shipyards are not bad. They achieve to produce any ship at time. The problems are integration of system and now they have issues with engines. They can produce easily 10 gorshkov in 2 years but it would be stupid as they don't have new engine and till recently they had issues with the anti air system.


    Back to the topic, Steregoushy corvettes are very good for closed sea. Their paket-NK would be usefull in the black sea and near the cost in pacific to intercept (with the recent kilos) diesel subs and protect naval formations.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  marat on Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:46 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Covering the truth and not pointing at bad things you did will not help you to improve yourself.

    Who is covering up the truth?

    This is an internet forum... focusing on the bad things only and whining that Russia is not better than the US or the UK or the EU will not effect Russia in any way or form.

    Look at post that i have quoted. In that post it was requested not to look at reality.

    Addmiting that you made mistake and that you have a problem is first step in problem resolving.

    Ahhh... so admitting that the Russian Navy is all crap will suddenly stop the Ukraine from sanctions restricting access to propulsion systems and all of a sudden Poliment redut will work fine.

    Trolling on a forum wont solve any problems.


    Again old story regarding Ukraina? So becouse Ukraina this ship was not finished in perido between 2006 and 2014? Stop blaming others for all problems you have. Problem with Ukraina is not related with this ship.


    And same old story regarding attacking person and noth arguments? I think thay acctualy you are troling whenever you do not like diferent opinion  but have no arguments to counter them....as in this situation.

    But there are sectors as shipbuilding industry in which they are not good enought today.

    You say that... all the people involved should be fired I guess.  There will always be problems.... with any navy... for instance the US Navy can't build a conventional sub to save its own ass... and its new carriers are ridiculously expensive sitting targets.
    And i said that when and when?

    I hope they will be better and that next two Corvetes for Pacific fleet will be completed soon.

    They will be ready when they are ready... how old are you... 12?

    Old enought to be aware of time frame when other finish ship of similar  role and size. Or i said something wrong. You find that 11 years are great time for that task?




    What is status of Gromkiy? He is also 4 years in production and that is also too long for ship of its size.

    And that is the heart of the problem... a 2,000 ton ship must be completed within 3 years or else your navy is crap. What are the problems and issues? What solutions are there?

    They could put out thousands of small ships and be building larger ships right now... it is easy... just make them crap with old technology and old weapons.[/


    Did you even read my post, i have mentioned that Russian navy is crap in my post???

    Calm down nobody didnt touched your bone so stop growling.
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:13 am

    My reply was not directed specifically at you Marat, but at the general "the sky is falling" crowd.

    Again old story regarding Ukraina? So becouse Ukraina this ship was not finished in perido between 2006 and 2014? Stop blaming others for all problems you have. Problem with Ukraina is not related with this ship.

    Most of the conventional naval propulsion systems for the Soviet Navy were made in what is now the Ukraine. Making thousands of small, medium, and large ships right now would be totally useless without any Russian way of making them move.

    This problem has been further made worse by Germany stopping selling their engines too as a sanction for the alleged Russian aggression in the Ukraine.

    And same old story regarding attacking person and noth arguments? I think thay acctualy you are troling whenever you do not like diferent opinion but have no arguments to counter them....as in this situation.

    Continuing to complain that Russia is not making enough ships fast enough while ignoring the reasons put forward is called trolling.

    Calling people for trolling is not trolling.

    You find that 11 years are great time for that task?

    Hahahahaha... you look at start date and current date and think that is the work time... the thing about problems is that some are serious enough to stop further work until a solution or an alternative is found.

    Russian ships are very good but they can't buy lot of them immediatly. Yassen, grigorovitch, gorshkov, impro kilo ... Very good but they have like one or two them that won't be decisive in a battle against NATO, that's why they are focusing on nulear weapons.

    The new ships are nothing like anything they have ever produced before.

    They are standardised and modular and fully multirole... once the designs are perfected they should be able to pump them out very rapidly and in much larger numbers than they have ever made them.

    More importantly when a ship moves between their ports all their equipment and weapons are standard so it does not matter which port they go to the missiles and ammo and equipment will all be standardised... so minor repairs or maintainence or just rearming should be easier and simpler.


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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  George1 on Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:57 pm

    The newest Steregushchy-class corvette, the Sovershenny ('Unbeatable') has begun sea trials, the Russian Pacific Fleet reported on Monday. Armed with the latest missile technology and fitted with advanced radar, stealth and electronic warfare systems, the warship is expected to significantly improve the Pacific Fleet's defensive capabilities.

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201701301050150193-russian-corvette-sovershennyy-sea-trials/


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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:49 pm

    Well about time dam.

    The pacific fleet should be getting the next five if I understand right after that this class won't be produced anymore.

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