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    Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:17 pm

    No big deal, they can revive BM trains if needed. Besides, the Yasen SSGNs have semi-strategic role & can be used as 2nd strike platforms.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:08 am

    Just watch, they are about to do the same with SSBNs

    Even if they only ever make 8 Borei SSBNs... that is 8 x 16 missiles which means 128 missiles in total.

    Their current limits are 1,500 in a year or twos time, which basically equates to about 500 SLBMs, 500 ICBMs, and 500 ALCMs...

    The Bulava carries 6 warheads per missile so that is 768 warheads ... which is actually too many... and that ignores all the Sinevas in the Delta IV SSBNs they have in service too...

    8 Boreis are too many at the moment.

    But after the new START treaty expires they can make or convert as many as they want... trains will be cheaper than subs.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:52 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    So those last two Boreis are getting cancelled?

    Looks like Navy is changing their minds mid-project again as usual

    Calling it now: they will drop the ball and get nothing after all is said and done

    What a drama queen.  Sure you're not Indian? Suspect

    So they will limit the 955 to 3 units and 955A to 5.  So what?  Clearly they are deciding to accelerate the follow-on Huksy SSBN variant.   Seriously, wtf is wrong with you?


    With me?

    They were doing this same bullsh*t with corvettes: current version is not cool enough, let's cancel them and order cooler ones even though we are short on vessels, it takes forever to get new ones in production and even longer to actually build one

    And when they finally got first new unit up and running they changed their mind again

    Result: desperate shortage of corvettes

    Just watch, they are about to do the same with SSBNs

    This isnt the same. We do not know exactly yet as to what they plan. Don't forget they are still building the current ones so there is still time till they decide. But so far, the options are Borei B or Husky which in this case, Husky is going to be probably the smarter choice as it can be both SSBN and SSBM.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:16 am

    U mean SSGN? There's no SSBM designation.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:26 am

    miketheterrible wrote:


    This isnt the same. We do not know exactly yet as to what they plan. Don't forget they are still building the current ones so there is still time till they decide. But so far, the options are Borei B or Husky which in this case, Husky is going to be probably the smarter choice as it can be both SSBN and SSBM.


    They already made it very clear that Husky can't do SSBN, too small

    And it's been years since any new sub was laid down with years more to go before next one, they are spinning their wheels
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:28 pm

    Source: Russia can build two nuclear submarines "Borey-K" with cruise missiles Cool  attack

    According to the source, if the decision is made, the submarines can be handed over to the customer after 2027.


    MOSCOW, April 20. / Tass /. The Ministry of Defense is considering the possibility of building two nuclear submarines of the new Borey-K project, which will become carriers of cruise missiles. This was reported by TASS on Saturday a source in the military-industrial complex of Russia.

    “The military department is considering the creation of two more Boreevs, but not with ballistic missiles, but with long-range cruise missiles. If the decision is made, these submarines will be built according to a new Borey-K project with delivery to the customer after 2027,” - Said the source agency. He did not name the intended characteristics of the new submarines.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6356693

    Lack of money Razz

    The article don't say if conventional or not, I think it's kalibr-M or Super Giant Zirkon.
    They are thinking along in Navy, I prefer Borey-K to Borey-B!
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:24 pm

    dino00 wrote:Source: Russia can build two nuclear submarines "Borey-K" with cruise missiles Cool attack

    According to the source, if the decision is made, the submarines can be handed over to the customer after 2027.
    ...

    YEEEESSSSS!!!!

    Don't wait, do it!!!




    dino00 wrote:...They are thinking along in Navy, I prefer Borey-K to Borey-B!

    I prefer both.

    They finally have the good stuff, now just build them!!!
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:45 am

    Well as they retire Delta IV subs there will be plenty of hulls to fill with cruise missiles if they want them... I mean these weapons they will be using... 4,500km range calibrs and perhaps 1,000km plus mach 9 Zircons... it is not like they need to get very close to their targets for their attack... as an example in Syria, there is no way ISIS could sink any type of submarine let alone a Delta IV, and with hundreds of missiles it could hit large numbers of targets over a very long period of time before needing to reload...

    By 2027 the new START treaty will mean nothing and it seems to me nothing will be signed to replace it... mostly because you can bet the US and the EU will demand hypersonic missiles will be included, while murder bots will not until Russia has some and then they will be included too.
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    Post  Arrow on Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:14 am

    Delta IV which will be 40 years old will be withdrawn and not converted into SSGN. In 2030 it will be very old submarine.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:35 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:U mean SSGN? There's no SSBM designation.

    yes, SSGN. My bad and thanks for correction.

    Looks like they are now working to make Borei a multipurpose based submarine. This could possibly be what Husky program was and this is all leading up to a new series of subs. Very interesting.
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    Post  hoom on Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:35 pm

    Interesting.
    Could free up Husky from having to be an expensive SSGN (VLS tubes add complexity & size -> cost) & just concentrate on being a relatively affordable SSN that can be built fairly quick in numbers?
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:24 pm

    dino00 wrote:Source: Russia can build two nuclear submarines "Borey-K" with cruise missiles Cool  attack

    According to the source, if the decision is made, the submarines can be handed over to the customer after 2027.
    ...

    YES!!, i was hoping for this
    A Borei SSGN would be the best, it's a good stopgap until Lider or the Super-Gorshkov are ready, and since the design is already in production it shouldn't take too long to get it in the water, although 2027 is oddly on the high side.
    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:55 pm

    And cheap...for some 800 mio you can get more missiles than on 3,5 bn Yasen. And on even more quiet, pump-jet sub. British will start snorting again.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:04 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:And cheap...for some 800 mio you can get more missiles than on 3,5 bn Yasen. And on even more quiet, pump-jet sub. British will start snorting again.

    Price of Yasens dropped now that it's in production (first ship was more expensive as always) but yeah Boreis are still cheaper

    Best way to go about this would be:

    -Borei SSBN for nuclear role

    -Borei SSGN to perform the role currently done by Oscar SSGN and to act as land attack platform, Ohio-style

    -Yasen and Husky to replace Akulas, Sierras and other SSNs
    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:36 pm

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:43 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:You means increased from 1,5 bn to 3,5 bn? Laughing

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t1692p425-project-677-lada-class-submarine#250377

    Serial Yasen-M

    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:46 pm



    Serial Yasen-M


    No info given yet.
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    Post  Mindstorm on Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:59 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:You means increased from 1,5 bn to 3,5 bn?  Laughing

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t1692p425-project-677-lada-class-submarine#250377


    From what contract have you ever taken those figures verkhoturye51 ?
    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:19 pm


    From what contract have you ever taken those figures verkhoturye51 ?

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/885.htm
    https://www.rbth.com/defence/2017/04/03/the-russian-navy-unleashes-its-most-powerful-and-expensive-attack-sub_733357
    https://iz.ru/news/680714
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    Post  Mindstorm on Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:10 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:

    From what contract have you ever taken those figures verkhoturye51 ?

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/885.htm
    https://www.rbth.com/defence/2017/04/03/the-russian-navy-unleashes-its-most-powerful-and-expensive-attack-sub_733357
    https://iz.ru/news/680714


    verkhoturye51 i don't see any contract in those links.

    The contract for the construction of пр. 885М submarine was signed in 2011, for a fixed amount of 164 billions rubles for 4 submarines (41 bl rubles or 640 ml dollars at today exchange rate) and 47 billion rubles for the first hull of the Ясень-М "Казань" (730 ml dollars at today exchange rate).

    Now i want to know from where those figures balooned up to 3,5 billion dollars for пр. 885М submarine.....

    In mine opinion is not inconceivable that some ignorant, or even worse some foreign-backed PR operative, had taken the entire amount for the program (included the figure for R&D and engineerization of the design's changes) meanly citing it at it was the cost of a SINGLE пр. 885М.

    For a product, like пр. 885М that greatly exceed the capabilities of Virginia class in virtually all the physical fields metrics and also in dynamics performances a price of less than 1/3 is a very good deal (even if MoD had aimed and still aim at reduce the cost of the series).


    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:45 am

    Mindstorm wrote:
    verkhoturye51 wrote:

    From what contract have you ever taken those figures verkhoturye51 ?

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/885.htm
    https://www.rbth.com/defence/2017/04/03/the-russian-navy-unleashes-its-most-powerful-and-expensive-attack-sub_733357
    https://iz.ru/news/680714


    verkhoturye51 i don't see any contract in those links.

    The contract for the construction of пр. 885М submarine was signed in 2011, for a fixed amount of 164 billions rubles for 4 submarines (41 bl rubles or 640 ml dollars at today exchange rate) and 47 billion rubles for the first hull of the Ясень-М "Казань" (730 ml dollars at today exchange rate).

    Now i want to know from where those figures balooned up to 3,5 billion dollars for пр. 885М submarine.....

    In mine opinion is not inconceivable that some ignorant, or even worse some foreign-backed PR operative, had taken the entire amount for the program (included the figure for R&D and engineerization of the design's changes) meanly citing it at it was the cost of a SINGLE  пр. 885М.

    For a product, like  пр. 885М that greatly exceed the capabilities of Virginia class in virtually all the physical fields metrics and also in dynamics performances a price of less than 1/3 is a very good deal (even if MoD had aimed and still aim at reduce the cost of the series).

     

    Thank you for a dose of reality. There is too much garbage on this board derived from pro-NATO media propaganda.

    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:42 am

    kvs wrote:Thank you for a dose of reality.   There is too much garbage on this board derived from pro-NATO media propaganda.

    Agree 100%. Given the relative purchasing power between Russia and US, spending the equivalent of 3.4B USD on the 885M is not far from the US spending 14B on their latest Robo-Carrier. It's clearly absurd that this sum is for a single boat, yet Atlantacist media stenographers (both in the West and their 5th columnist counterparts in Russia itself) happily regurgitate the BS for their weekly allotment of Judas coin.

    Eventually the truth will become undeniable, but by then the Scribblers for Empire will have moved on to the latest disinfo, and as we all know, they NEVER look back and admit past distortions.
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    Post  Arrow on Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:43 am


    885М that greatly exceed the capabilities of Virginia class in virtually all the physical fields metrics and also in dynamics performances wrote:

    No, Virginia is quieter. It has a pump jet instead of a traditional screw. It probably has better electronic equipment.
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:54 pm

    I remember that the Russian mod compared the Russians and foreign weapons some months ago, I can't find the links but Vesti made videos about that...



    Yasen-M costs 53% less than the noisy Virginia! How much costs  the noisy-Virginia?
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:01 pm

    US are getting 1 Virginia per year. And they are not noisy.

    Sponsored content

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