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ALAMO wrote:They are not useless, only serve different objectives.
As long as they have weak subs that can't protect them, they will be easy to hunt for SSNs.
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89 posters
Project 955: Borei class SSBN
Isos- Posts : 11301
Points : 11271
Join date : 2015-11-06
As long as they have weak subs that can't protect them, they will be easy to hunt for SSNs.
George1- Posts : 18315
Points : 18812
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
The second Borey-A-class submarine Generalissimus Suvorov will reinforce the nuclear submarine group of the Pacific Fleet of the Russian Navy, Navy commander Nikolay Yevmenov said during the submarine launch ceremony at the Sevmash shipyard.
https://tass.com/defense/1380871
https://tass.com/defense/1380871
medo, Big_Gazza and lancelot like this post
PapaDragon- Posts : 13272
Points : 13314
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
ult wrote:11th and 12th Borei are to be laid down in 2023, the contract should be signed in 2022, according to an anonymous source. From TASS...
Out-fucking-standing
With 12 new SSBNs Russia is officially restoring it's sea based nuclear deterrent
And since USN is planning 12 Columbia boats with same amount of missiles as Boreis they will have full parity with USA
Isos wrote:12 Boreis and 9 Yasen build or under construction. Oscars will get their modernization and older akula and siera already got modernized.
They also received new Improved Kilos. Also new Lada will be delivered....
One Lada in service and 5 more in the pipeline and that's just for starters
With Borei construction approaching the end stretch they should focus on crancking out Yasens in maximum amount possible
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lancelot
lancelot- Posts : 2695
Points : 2693
Join date : 2020-10-17
PapaDragon wrote:With Borei construction approaching the end stretch they should focus on crancking out Yasens in maximum amount possible
They should but there will likely be some modified Borei construction to be used as for Poseidon nuclear torpedo carriers.
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owais.usmani- Posts : 1786
Points : 1782
Join date : 2019-03-27
Age : 37
ult wrote:11th and 12th Borei are to be laid down in 2023, the contract should be signed in 2022, according to an anonymous source. From TASS.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/13298525
They need to start laying down the Borei-B class now. Enough with the scaled down version of Borei already.
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Hole- Posts : 10726
Points : 10704
Join date : 2018-03-24
Age : 47
Location : Scholzistan
Suvorov.
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Arrow- Posts : 2720
Points : 2712
Join date : 2012-02-12
Not exactly Russia, apart from 12 Borey SSBN, is planning an additional 4 Poseidon drone carriers. It is also a strategic weapon of a completely new class of submarines armed with new weapons. 
For now, one Columbia is under construction.
For now, one Columbia is under construction.
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4641
Points : 4633
Join date : 2014-08-25
Location : Melbourne, Australia
owais.usmani wrote:ult wrote:11th and 12th Borei are to be laid down in 2023, the contract should be signed in 2022, according to an anonymous source. From TASS.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/13298525
They need to start laying down the Borei-B class now. Enough with the scaled down version of Borei already.
If they have 3x 955 and 9x 955A why do they need more SSBNs? I'd introduce the new "Borei-B" technologies (reckoned to be more advanced quietening and possibly water jet propulsion) to new SSNs, and re-evaluate after a few year of experience in service.
Build more Yasen, and follow up with next gen Husky once the 885M fleet numbers are up to 12-16.
Plus keep the 971M modernisation on track. We're getting near the end of the pipeline as far as returning these great boats into service. They are still excellent boats and will add numbers to the fleet to take operational pressure off the 885Ms.
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PapaDragon- Posts : 13272
Points : 13314
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
owais.usmani wrote:ult wrote:11th and 12th Borei are to be laid down in 2023, the contract should be signed in 2022, according to an anonymous source. From TASS.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/13298525
They need to start laying down the Borei-B class now. Enough with the scaled down version of Borei already.
What are you talking about? What's scaled down?
Borei-A is top of the line and if these last two are ordered it will fully cover Russia's SSBN fleet for decades to come getting them fully on equal footing with upcoming USA's SSBN fleet
They will need two or three more trimmed down Boreis for Poseidons but that is unrelated
What they need next is Yasens and plenty of them
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Arrow- Posts : 2720
Points : 2712
Join date : 2012-02-12
Big_Gazza wrote:
Plus keep the 971M modernisation on track. We're getting near the end of the pipeline as far as returning these great boats into service. They are still excellent boats and will add numbers to the fleet to take operational pressure off the 885Ms.
Russia will keep the second largest nuclear submarine fleet. However, it will be more effective than the American one.
Krepost- Posts : 688
Points : 690
Join date : 2021-12-07
Sevmash has got its act together.
They are now building submarines like sausages
2021: 3 nuclear subs made by Sevmash were commissioned: Kazan, Novosibirsk and Knyaz Oleg
2022: 3 nuclear subs will enter service: Generalissimus Suvorov, Krasnoyarsk and Belgorod
But over long term, 2 Sevmash built nuclear subs will enter service per year on average.
At the same time: Admiralty shipyard will deliver a minimum of 1 diesel-electric sub per year (Kilo or Lada).
So, over the long term, VMF will receive 3 new subs per year on average.
Considering that the average longevity of a sub is 30 years.
Russia's undersea fleet will consist eventually of 90 subs (60 nuclear and 30 diesel-electric).
The USA does not make diesel subs.
They currently are commissioning 1or 2 Virginias per year.
Columbia production will take a while to ramp up.
Their average sub construction will be 2-3 subs per year at best.
Considering tat they also keep their subs for an average of 30 years.
The US fleet will have no more than 70-75 subs in service in the long run. Which is pretty much what they have right now.
They are now building submarines like sausages
2021: 3 nuclear subs made by Sevmash were commissioned: Kazan, Novosibirsk and Knyaz Oleg
2022: 3 nuclear subs will enter service: Generalissimus Suvorov, Krasnoyarsk and Belgorod
But over long term, 2 Sevmash built nuclear subs will enter service per year on average.
At the same time: Admiralty shipyard will deliver a minimum of 1 diesel-electric sub per year (Kilo or Lada).
So, over the long term, VMF will receive 3 new subs per year on average.
Considering that the average longevity of a sub is 30 years.
Russia's undersea fleet will consist eventually of 90 subs (60 nuclear and 30 diesel-electric).
The USA does not make diesel subs.
They currently are commissioning 1or 2 Virginias per year.
Columbia production will take a while to ramp up.
Their average sub construction will be 2-3 subs per year at best.
Considering tat they also keep their subs for an average of 30 years.
The US fleet will have no more than 70-75 subs in service in the long run. Which is pretty much what they have right now.
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GarryB- Posts : 38988
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
With START limitations on warhead numbers and launch platforms it makes no sense to expand the launch capacity of the Boreis...
Having 20 missiles per sub with 6 warheads per missile and you end up only being allowed just over 4 submarines before you have more than the 500 warheads you are allowed.... 500 SLBMs, 500 ALCMs, 500 ICBMs = 1500 warheads.
By having fewer missiles on each sub you can have more subs, which makes them harder to deal with and follow.
The Akula class subs were a case in point, with 20 missiles each with 10 warheads each sub could carry 200 warheads on their own.... assuming no nuclear armed land attack cruise missiles were being carried too.
That means three subs would carry 600 warheads and be over the START II and III limits...
It would of course make more sense to download the missiles with say three warheads each which means you can have just over 8 boats operational, which is a useful amount.... four in the Pacific Fleet and four in the Northern Fleet... the reduced payload extending the missile range to allow targets further away to be engaged and also freeing up large amounts of internal space for lots of decoys and jammers to improve the real warheads chances of getting through.
Having 20 missiles per sub with 6 warheads per missile and you end up only being allowed just over 4 submarines before you have more than the 500 warheads you are allowed.... 500 SLBMs, 500 ALCMs, 500 ICBMs = 1500 warheads.
By having fewer missiles on each sub you can have more subs, which makes them harder to deal with and follow.
The Akula class subs were a case in point, with 20 missiles each with 10 warheads each sub could carry 200 warheads on their own.... assuming no nuclear armed land attack cruise missiles were being carried too.
That means three subs would carry 600 warheads and be over the START II and III limits...
It would of course make more sense to download the missiles with say three warheads each which means you can have just over 8 boats operational, which is a useful amount.... four in the Pacific Fleet and four in the Northern Fleet... the reduced payload extending the missile range to allow targets further away to be engaged and also freeing up large amounts of internal space for lots of decoys and jammers to improve the real warheads chances of getting through.
owais.usmani- Posts : 1786
Points : 1782
Join date : 2019-03-27
Age : 37
PapaDragon wrote:
What are you talking about? What's scaled down?
I am talking about the Borei-B, the upgraded Borei with a new jet propulsion unit for further noise reduction, among other upgrades:
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4840412
Back in 2018, it was deemed as too costly. But they are having record budget surplus and strong econimic growth for a couple of years now, so they should now reconsider building this version.
Isos- Posts : 11301
Points : 11271
Join date : 2015-11-06
They have reached the max number of SSBN and deployed warheds with the Borei. They can't build more of them unless they want to replace them.
What they can do is special ships in low quantity like 2 or 3 for Poseidon, 2 or 3 for Kalibr missiles and 1 or 2 for reasearch/drone carriers.
It's a modular design and the total number (>5) would be worth investing.
What they can do is special ships in low quantity like 2 or 3 for Poseidon, 2 or 3 for Kalibr missiles and 1 or 2 for reasearch/drone carriers.
It's a modular design and the total number (>5) would be worth investing.
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PapaDragon- Posts : 13272
Points : 13314
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
Since Borei production line is nicely warmed up they could consider extending construction of Borei-A by 3 extra hulls and then converting original 3 vanilla Boreis into SSGNs or into 1 spy sub and 2 SSGNs (Ohio style)
For uniformity sake and having loads of conventional cruise missiles on standby
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Krepost- Posts : 688
Points : 690
Join date : 2021-12-07
Knyaz Vladimir
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