Syrian Civil War: News #2

Militarov wrote:"Zain al-Hassan, one of anti-tank TOW missiles operators in Syria, is said he destroyed 4 gov. tanks near Murak"



And one interesting video: https://twitter.com/zaidbenjamin/status/651822804057374721

Source: https://twitter.com/zaidbenjamin/status/651824967466786817

If TOW's will be playing a vital role in stopping this russian backed offensive then something is seriously wrong with the boming campaign.
Carpet bomb the whole area then let Hezbollah, IRGC advisors lead the offensive, the SAA is totally useless.

That picture points out even more the western (NATO) countries lack in ATGM technologies. A huge mofo TOW launcher compared with Metis-M that can be fired from prone position.

Similiar range, better performance.

Syrian infantry should get RPOs and RuAF should use aerosol bombs against those positions on the front.

Solncepek wrote:Things on the ground are looking really bad...
Reports for 17 destroyed tanks till now...

Who is reporting that? I`ve seen videos from 2013 to prove Syrian armor losses from todays operation near Hama.

From video i posted , it`s clear Syrian army has an operational control on battle field. I think people expected it was going to be a walk through rebel positions....

Werewolf wrote:That picture points out even more the western (NATO) countries lack in ATGM technologies. A huge mofo TOW launcher compared with Metis-M that can be fired from prone position.

Similiar range, better performance.

Wait, i thought Metis-M1 has 2000m range and TOW D/E 3.750. Longer range would explain weight and size difference.

zg18 wrote:

Solncepek wrote:Things on the ground are looking really bad...
Reports for 17 destroyed tanks till now...

Who is reporting that? I`ve seen videos from 2013 to prove Syrian armor losses from todays operation near Hama.

From video i posted , it`s clear Syrian army has an operational control on battle field. I think people expected it was going to be a walk through rebel positions....

This^^^

Although they should have let VKS work the rebels for at least a week longer before hitting them with ground offensive but what the hell, their party...

Still better than alternative from a month ago.

Stealthflanker wrote:...................

hmm maybe this is why Putin wants to send over 150000 men there..

Just a retarded rumor,nothing else. There will be no Russian ground troops in Syria. Those mythical 150 000 troops are guys Russia drafts every year for boot camp. Completely unrelated.

Dear Lord, they are so bad...

"An advanced tank named "Command Tank" has been captured by revolutionaries today in Morek in Hama province" - these guys are so creative "command tank"... ffs.



Source: https://twitter.com/HadiAlabdallah/status/651820051302096898

Apparently 3M-54 Klub filmed over Kurdish territory. Russia fired some from the Caspian.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=844_1444245291


I have never seen a actual video of a cruise missile randomly filmed en route until now.

Zivo wrote:Apparently 3M-54 Klub filmed over Kurdish territory. Russia fired some from the Caspian.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=844_1444245291


I have never seen a actual video of a cruise missile randomly filmed en route until now.

You would get suprised how many cruise missiles were shot in 1999. due to visual recon by VOJIN. They warn AA batteries that its coming and they prepare and shoot it down, or at least try, i guess these guys too had warning that its coming from someone on its path during previous few minutes so they took a chance and filmed it

There is a huge propaganda conflict going on over this operation. None of these videos can be confirmed yet. We already have evidence of terrorists taking old or cropped shots to make whatever bs claim they can. I highly doubt they had this many atgms and ammo available all of a sudden.

That said, atgms have caused nothing but headachs for various militaries: Iraq, Palestine/Israel, Ukraine, and now Syria.

What Assad needs to do is take the voluntary forces into the actual army and airforce itself. This would drastically increase SAA manpower as some groups are at least over 100,000 manpower.

In this campaign, SAA needs artillery, and air support. Do we know they are using any?

sepheronx wrote:There is a huge propaganda conflict going on over this operation. None of these videos can be confirmed yet. We already have evidence of terrorists taking old or cropped shots to make whatever bs claim they can.  I highly doubt they had this many atgms and ammo available all of a sudden.

That said, atgms have caused nothing but headachs for various militaries: Iraq, Palestine/Israel, Ukraine, and now Syria.

What Assad needs to do is take the voluntary forces into the actual army and airforce itself.  This would drastically increase SAA manpower as some groups are at least over 100,000 manpower.

In this campaign, SAA needs artillery, and air support. Do we know they are using any?

Genuine videos of D30s, BM21, Gvozdikas and Smerch exist from today. As of their own air support idk, you cant really tell them among Russian SU24s since thats what they are using too, but i assume so. What is worrying me is lack of "real" artillery M46s which they had plentiful are barely being seen last few months.

Monarchist wrote:

Militarov wrote:"Zain al-Hassan, one of anti-tank TOW missiles operators in Syria, is said he destroyed 4 gov. tanks near Murak"



And one interesting video: https://twitter.com/zaidbenjamin/status/651822804057374721

Source: https://twitter.com/zaidbenjamin/status/651824967466786817

If TOW's will be playing a vital role in stopping this russian backed offensive then something is seriously wrong with the boming campaign.
Carpet bomb the whole area then let Hezbollah, IRGC advisors lead the offensive, the SAA is totally useless.

TOW's can't do as much damage as you want, they do not allow you to cover huge spaces. This was painfully evident in Donbass, where ATGM's couldn't block the Ukrops effectively. This is a solid evidence of SAA's lack of efficiency and the way they want to rush things. It has nothing to do with air strikes, as you can see ATGM's will be fired from all kinds of positions. Unless you effectively lavel all the area, you need proper cover against this threat. Such cover is surveillance. Relentless surveillance. And proper infantry tactics. With propre scanning at least one of those positions would have been covered by artillery.

Russia is already starting to help out Syria economically (small, but a start)

The Russian company is building a mill complex in Syria

Random firefighting video from today at Kafr Nabudah, however one interesting detail caught my attention.

AK derivate one of the guys is using has US built M203 underbarrel grenade launcher or its Turkish copy T40.





More info and pics of M203:

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/usa/m203-e.html







I guess they improvised montage of this sort on it.





Its not unheard of, but i dont recall it being ever spotted in field before, some military enthusiasts did fit them on similar rifles.

zg18 wrote:Some moderate progress has been achieved.



Goal is to encircle enemy forces at Kafr Zita. With Kafr Nabudah in Syrian army hands , rebel position on maintaining the front line is critically weakened.

Peto thinks his map was too optimistic with Kafr Nabudah still being under terrorist control. We'll see how the next couple of days unfold.

Claimed collection of all TOW videos from today in one.

as i said on another thread, the SAA need ground support, Russia has plenty of useful systems some of which are sitting in storage. Some of which could be sent to the SAA such as the following

2A36 Giatsint-B including 2S5 Giatsint-S
2S1
2S3
2S4 Tyulpan
2S7 Pion
BM-21
BM-27
BM-30
TOS-1A (not in storage but plenty of T-72's to convert)

majority of the equipment could be used by Syrian ground forces as they currently already use 2S1, 2S3, 2S4, and the BM's. Russia could send Krasnopol and other laser guided ammo all they would have to do is train some of the Syrian grounds troops most likely special forces or Republican guard to use laser designators and your sorted, would be ideal for taking out smaller positions before ground assault this would allow Russia to not end up having to use expensive air to ground missiles for the same job. TOS-1A wide spread destructiveness, added to the the range and point destructiveness of Tyulpan and Pion and the terrorist scum would be turning tail and running or be left dead. All this without Russian troops being put in immediate danger and the Syrian ground forces would find very little resistance after bombardment.

they could even send Tochka missles, and other small arms such as RPO, AT-4, AT-5, AT-6 missles, AT-2 missles, RPG-7 (various rockets) and other single use anti tank weapons, even the AT-3 would be useful and its the cheapest ATGW on the market, and the SAA currently use it.

also like to back up what someone said earlier in another thread about Russia providing helmets and body armour to Syrian ground troops no info if this has been done but wouldnt be a bad idea for the troops that will be doing the actual ground assaults.

d_taddei2 wrote:as i said on another thread, the SAA need ground support, Russia has plenty of useful systems some of which are sitting in storage. Some of which could be sent to the SAA such as the following

2A36 Giatsint-B including 2S5 Giatsint-S
2S1
2S3
2S4 Tyulpan
2S7 Pion
BM-21
BM-27
BM-30
TOS-1A (not in storage but plenty of T-72's to  convert)

majority of the equipment could be used by Syrian ground forces as they currently already use 2S1, 2S3, 2S4, and the BM's. Russia could send Krasnopol and other laser guided ammo all they would have to do is train some of the Syrian grounds troops most likely special forces or Republican guard to use laser designators and your sorted, would be ideal for taking out smaller positions before ground assault this would allow Russia to not end up having to use expensive air to ground missiles for the same job. TOS-1A wide spread destructiveness, added to the the range and point destructiveness of Tyulpan and Pion and the terrorist scum would be turning tail and running or be left dead. All this without Russian troops being put in immediate danger and the Syrian ground forces would find very little resistance after bombardment.

they could even send Tochka missles, and other small arms such as RPO, AT-4, AT-5, AT-6 missles, AT-2 missles, RPG-7 (various rockets) and other single use anti tank weapons, even the AT-3 would be useful and its the cheapest ATGW on the market, and the SAA currently use it.

also like to back up what someone said earlier in another thread about Russia providing helmets and body armour to Syrian ground troops no info if this has been done but wouldnt be a bad idea for the troops that will be doing the actual ground assaults.

Giatsints are good idea since they are out of service in Russia anyways at least towed variant, however Pion wouldnt be of much use to them even if it existed in significant numbers as it does not. D30 derivates including Gvozdika exist in still significant numbers so they are not needed either, 2S3 Akatsiya on other hand would be good idea since they badly lack 152mm artillery, even better if self propelled.

They also seem to be ok with Grads amount however increased number of Uragans and Smerch systems would be significant asset. They could even offer them upgunning of existing M46 guns, i havent seen them being used in a while in significant numbers even tho its belived they recieved couple hundred of them back in time. Few companies are offering their upgunning from 130 to 152/155mm while you keep most of the original gun.

TOS is smart idea, however as you said none exist atm they would have to be produced from tanks in storage and that would take some time.

Malytka is not that cheap as you might belive, also they are barely produced these days except in China, even tho Serbia does produce them noone would allow them to export them to Syria. Helmets and bulletproof vests were obtained via commercial channels from China in quite significant numbers, i guess more wouldnt hurt.

Militarov wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:as i said on another thread, the SAA need ground support, Russia has plenty of useful systems some of which are sitting in storage. Some of which could be sent to the SAA such as the following

2A36 Giatsint-B including 2S5 Giatsint-S
2S1
2S3
2S4 Tyulpan
2S7 Pion
BM-21
BM-27
BM-30
TOS-1A (not in storage but plenty of T-72's to  convert)

majority of the equipment could be used by Syrian ground forces as they currently already use 2S1, 2S3, 2S4, and the BM's. Russia could send Krasnopol and other laser guided ammo all they would have to do is train some of the Syrian grounds troops most likely special forces or Republican guard to use laser designators and your sorted, would be ideal for taking out smaller positions before ground assault this would allow Russia to not end up having to use expensive air to ground missiles for the same job. TOS-1A wide spread destructiveness, added to the the range and point destructiveness of Tyulpan and Pion and the terrorist scum would be turning tail and running or be left dead. All this without Russian troops being put in immediate danger and the Syrian ground forces would find very little resistance after bombardment.

they could even send Tochka missles, and other small arms such as RPO, AT-4, AT-5, AT-6 missles, AT-2 missles, RPG-7 (various rockets) and other single use anti tank weapons, even the AT-3 would be useful and its the cheapest ATGW on the market, and the SAA currently use it.

also like to back up what someone said earlier in another thread about Russia providing helmets and body armour to Syrian ground troops no info if this has been done but wouldnt be a bad idea for the troops that will be doing the actual ground assaults.

Giatsints are good idea since they are out of service in Russia anyways at least towed variant, however Pion wouldnt be of much use to them even if it existed in significant numbers as it does not. D30 derivates including Gvozdika exist in still significant numbers so they are not needed either, 2S3 Akatsiya on other hand would be good idea since they badly lack 152mm artillery, even better if self propelled.

They also seem to be ok with Grads amount however increased number of Uragans and Smerch systems would be significant asset. They could even offer them upgunning of existing M46 guns, i havent seen them being used in a while in significant numbers even tho its belived they recieved couple hundred of them back in time. Few companies are offering their upgunning from 130 to 152/155mm while you keep most of the original gun.

TOS is smart idea, however as you said none exist atm they would have to be produced from tanks in storage and that would take some time.

Malytka is not that cheap as you might belive, also they are barely produced these days except in China, even tho Serbia does produce them noone would allow them to export them to Syria. Helmets and bulletproof vests were obtained via commercial channels from China in quite significant numbers, i guess more wouldnt hurt.

i read somewhere (wish i bookmmarked it) that it was the cheapest ATGW on the market, i am pretty sure Bulgaria have means to produce it, and Iran and North korean both produce there own version and both have been supplying Syria with other weapons.

I also think it wouldnt hurt for Russia to send some BMP-1, BMP-2, MT-LB (various variants), BTR 60/70/80/82, and some t-62/t-64/t-72, and some extra 120mm mortars. Russia loads of this stuff in storage wasting away, i suppose the only real problem is transportation of it in decent numbers,

good point on the M46, such a great gun but under used, the Cubans even have this mounted on T-34 chassis. while the Syrians have D-30 mounted on there T-34's pics below

cuban version


Syrian version

Militarov wrote:

Claimed collection of all TOW videos from today in one.

Well, seeing it like that makes it rather clear that a lot of these were not hits or were not tanks. I only counted 4 definitive tank hits, and another 3 that were definitely hits yet unclear what type of armor.

d_taddei2 wrote:

Militarov wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:as i said on another thread, the SAA need ground support, Russia has plenty of useful systems some of which are sitting in storage. Some of which could be sent to the SAA such as the following

2A36 Giatsint-B including 2S5 Giatsint-S
2S1
2S3
2S4 Tyulpan
2S7 Pion
BM-21
BM-27
BM-30
TOS-1A (not in storage but plenty of T-72's to  convert)

majority of the equipment could be used by Syrian ground forces as they currently already use 2S1, 2S3, 2S4, and the BM's. Russia could send Krasnopol and other laser guided ammo all they would have to do is train some of the Syrian grounds troops most likely special forces or Republican guard to use laser designators and your sorted, would be ideal for taking out smaller positions before ground assault this would allow Russia to not end up having to use expensive air to ground missiles for the same job. TOS-1A wide spread destructiveness, added to the the range and point destructiveness of Tyulpan and Pion and the terrorist scum would be turning tail and running or be left dead. All this without Russian troops being put in immediate danger and the Syrian ground forces would find very little resistance after bombardment.

they could even send Tochka missles, and other small arms such as RPO, AT-4, AT-5, AT-6 missles, AT-2 missles, RPG-7 (various rockets) and other single use anti tank weapons, even the AT-3 would be useful and its the cheapest ATGW on the market, and the SAA currently use it.

also like to back up what someone said earlier in another thread about Russia providing helmets and body armour to Syrian ground troops no info if this has been done but wouldnt be a bad idea for the troops that will be doing the actual ground assaults.

Giatsints are good idea since they are out of service in Russia anyways at least towed variant, however Pion wouldnt be of much use to them even if it existed in significant numbers as it does not. D30 derivates including Gvozdika exist in still significant numbers so they are not needed either, 2S3 Akatsiya on other hand would be good idea since they badly lack 152mm artillery, even better if self propelled.

They also seem to be ok with Grads amount however increased number of Uragans and Smerch systems would be significant asset. They could even offer them upgunning of existing M46 guns, i havent seen them being used in a while in significant numbers even tho its belived they recieved couple hundred of them back in time. Few companies are offering their upgunning from 130 to 152/155mm while you keep most of the original gun.

TOS is smart idea, however as you said none exist atm they would have to be produced from tanks in storage and that would take some time.

Malytka is not that cheap as you might belive, also they are barely produced these days except in China, even tho Serbia does produce them noone would allow them to export them to Syria. Helmets and bulletproof vests were obtained via commercial channels from China in quite significant numbers, i guess more wouldnt hurt.

i read somewhere (wish i bookmmarked it) that it was the cheapest ATGW on the market, i am pretty sure Bulgaria have means to produce it, and Iran and North korean both produce there own version and both have been supplying Syria with other weapons.

I also think it wouldnt hurt for Russia to send some BMP-1, BMP-2, MT-LB (various variants), BTR 60/70/80/82, and some t-62/t-64/t-72, and some extra 120mm mortars. Russia loads of this stuff in storage wasting away, i suppose the only real problem is transportation of it in decent numbers,

I didnt say its not cheap, just that its not THAT cheap as one might think, lets say that its not much cheaper per missile than HJ-8 for an example, price of launcher is significant on HJ-8 compared to Malyutka but its worth it compared to what you get. Many countries can produce it, not many do keep production up atm and barely any would sell them to Syria. Romania, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Taiwan, Serbia... even if they wanted to sell they wouldnt be allowed. Iran and China maybe, but again they both offer similary priced systems with better performance.

I dont think that Russia has any T62s left laying around, maybe some T64s but i dont know for sure, someone around here who is fluent in Russian could find it for us i suppose. When its about various tracked vehicles both combat and non combat their delivery is possible i guess but it depends on few things, transport, their state, amounts existing etc.

good point on the M46, such a great gun but under used, the Cubans even have this mounted on T-34 chassis. while the Syrians have D-30 mounted on there T-34's pics below

cuban version


Syrian version

Fairly simple upgunning of this system is possible: http://www.yugoimport.com/en/proizvodi/upgunning-130mm-m46-gun-155mm45-calibre-gun Version offered by Serbian Yugoimport SDPR



Indian Catapult Self propelled Howtizer using M46:



Also Soltam has own project for upgunning M46 to 155mm, as they did to number of Indian army guns: http://defense-update.com/20060813_defexpo06-artillery.html#.VhW-X-ynLK8