The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

JohninMK wrote:

Erk wrote:

medo wrote:

Novorussian army find in Lugansk airport an Ukrainian cache of US made weapons, where they also got Stinger MANPADs from US Army.

Which is pretty funny considering NAF have no aircraft, just goes to show how aware the US is sending them MANPADS.

At that stage there was probably thinking that Russian aircraft or helicopters may appear.

whir wrote:

lnr.today wrote:Airport Luhansk found "Stingers" (operational mode) / # LNRsegodnya

flamming_python wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Do we believe him?

KYIV, July 22 /Ukrinform/. President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko hopes that the offer of the Ukrainian side to withdraw heavy weapons and establish a 30-kilometer buffer zone along the contact line in Donbas, supported in Minsk yesterday, will mean the start of a real ceasefire.

The President said this at the meeting with the activists of Luhansk region in Severodonetsk, an Ukrinform correspondent reports. "I may tell you the latest news from Minsk. I instructed our representatives in the Trilateral Contact Group to immediately sign the agreement with the OSCE and the Russian side to ensure the establishment of a 30-kilometer buffer zone along the contact line. Another requirement is to withdraw all remaining artillery, tanks, and mortars. Yesterday, our diplomatic efforts were crowned with success. Yesterday in Minsk, the initiatives of the Ukrainian side were approved. In few days a countdown for heavy weaponry withdrawal under OSCE control will start," Poroshenko said.

The Head of State expressed hope that would be the start of a real cease-fire, a real withdrawal of heavy weapons and artillery, a hostage release, and ensuring the effective control of the OSCE over observance of the agreements.

No we don't believe him, unless you can find me at least one statement that fat tub of shit read out before that didn't turn out to be a complete fabrication.
All he's been doing is lying, and lying, and lying more. He's got it down to a routine. He lied to his own electorate, he lied to his soldiers, he lied to his parliament, he lied to his people, he lied to the people of the Donbass, he lied to the Europeans, he lied to the Russians, he lied to the OSCE, and he's lying now - not a single one of his campaign promises in the mockery of the elections that the unconstitutional Ukrainian government organized has he carried out, nor the pay he promised to the soldiers, nor the end of the war he promised, nor the abidance with the Minsk agreement, withdrawal of artillery or anything else.

He's never done anything to indicate that he has even the slightest amount of integrity, or is capable of holding his word or any sort of agrement, written or verbal, formal or informal.
There is no reason to assume that he's about to start either.

The question you should ask instead, John, is 'why should we believe him'? And why now?

Flagship Victory wrote:

whir wrote:

lnr.today wrote:Airport Luhansk found "Stingers" (operational mode) / # LNRsegodnya

Finders keepers.    Beef ravioli? buuurr

PapaDragon wrote:Right Sector & Porky's recent statements = HOLY PERUN, WHAT THE F*CK AM I RADING HERE!!!

But after thinking about it explanation is simple:  clear sign of ukrop infighting and desperation if there ever was one.

Whatever it is that NAF has been doing so far, they should keep doing it.

kvs wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:Right Sector & Porky's recent statements = HOLY PERUN, WHAT THE F*CK AM I RADING HERE!!!

But after thinking about it explanation is simple:  clear sign of ukrop infighting and desperation if there ever was one.

Whatever it is that NAF has been doing so far, they should keep doing it.

The economy must be swirling the bowl and the morons in charge are feeling the looming drain of oblivion.
May they all be flushed!

AlfaT8 wrote:

kvs wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:Right Sector & Porky's recent statements = HOLY PERUN, WHAT THE F*CK AM I RADING HERE!!!

But after thinking about it explanation is simple:  clear sign of ukrop infighting and desperation if there ever was one.

Whatever it is that NAF has been doing so far, they should keep doing it.

The economy must be swirling the bowl and the morons in charge are feeling the looming drain of oblivion.
May they all be flushed!

Amen to that.

PapaDragon wrote:

Whatever it is that NAF has been doing so far, they should keep doing it.

Erk wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Whatever it is that NAF has been doing so far, they should keep doing it.

The NAF seems to be pulling back in a lot of places, I don't understand why. Perhaps they are trying to make the UAF obviously cross the border lines as defined in Minsk 2 so they have a reason for a strong offensive push against the UAF. The towns the NAF gives up will need to be taken back at some point or else Novorossiya will be seen as contracting which is not positive for it's citizens.

PapaDragon wrote:

3 km is nothing. NAF aren't retreating, they are luring UAF out in the open.

Flagship Victory wrote:Ukraine's poverty rate to hit 33 percent this year.

"But one poverty expert, who requested anonymity out of a fear of being seen to paint too grim a picture, said it could go as high as 18 percent, meaning about 9.7 million people will cross into poverty by the end of the year."

In Mykolaiv (60km north-west of Kherson), the deputy head of the district Social Policy Department for Mykolaiv region told the SMM on 16 July that the number of internally displaced persons (IDPs) in Mykolaiv has been gradually decreasing, e.g., from 8,858 on 15 June to 8,250 on 15 July – with, he said, IDPs returning home to Donbas and Crimea or moving to other regions of Ukraine. Though the deputy head said the profile of the IDPs remains relatively consistent, with women, many with small children, making up the majority (70%) and pensioners representing the biggest social category (49%). wrote:

Ispan wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

The "Polish" mercenaries are not real Poles, they are ethnic Ukrainians from Poland.

The "flying the Polish flag" is meant to set the real ethnic Poles and Russians against each other.

Sorry, but in this case you help in spreading disinformation and Ukrainian coup regime propaganda.

I take offense and I find that very insulting, as I only report something when I am quite sure about it and the sources are credible, but I will let that pass in the interest of the thread.

I am only reporting what an eyewitness saw. Of course he will make mistakes, and some of what he reports are rumors, but on the whole he seems like a intelligent, observant person, as befits a medicine doctor.  Also he is a non combatant and not interested that much in military things, so his observations are valuable because they are about things he found particularly striking and would stick in the memory of a layman. I would love to hear the stories from foreign fighters with the militia as they would have a lot of valuable insight on the military side of things.

Judging by the posters at MPnet, Russophobia is rampant in Poland. I do have a Polish friend who is fairly moderate and he admits as much. Not everybody in Poland is like that, I would dare say only a minority, but the unpleasant truth is that there is no love lost between the two countries. Some Poles do hate Russia.

As far as I know there are  no "ethnic Ukrainians" living in Poland, ever since the borders were moved after World War II, unless you mean migrant workers.

Of all the stories about mercenaries in the junta armies, the ones about Polish mercs are the most credible. After all, Maidan rioters got training in Poland. There is a well known photo of Turchynov hanging around with a former Polish officer and  known mercenary, and there are the trophies of Western small arms captured at the Donetsk airport. There have been lots of stories of foreign mercenaries circulated by the militia. This is the first confirmation from a credible and impartial Western eyewitness. Why would he make stuff up?  He was at the front and is not reporting rumors.

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

Ispan wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

The "Polish" mercenaries are not real Poles, they are ethnic Ukrainians from Poland.

The "flying the Polish flag" is meant to set the real ethnic Poles and Russians against each other.

Sorry, but in this case you help in spreading disinformation and Ukrainian coup regime propaganda.

I take offense and I find that very insulting, as I only report something when I am quite sure about it and the sources are credible, but I will let that pass in the interest of the thread.

I am only reporting what an eyewitness saw. Of course he will make mistakes, and some of what he reports are rumors, but on the whole he seems like a intelligent, observant person, as befits a medicine doctor.  Also he is a non combatant and not interested that much in military things, so his observations are valuable because they are about things he found particularly striking and would stick in the memory of a layman. I would love to hear the stories from foreign fighters with the militia as they would have a lot of valuable insight on the military side of things.

Judging by the posters at MPnet, Russophobia is rampant in Poland. I do have a Polish friend who is fairly moderate and he admits as much. Not everybody in Poland is like that, I would dare say only a minority, but the unpleasant truth is that there is no love lost between the two countries. Some Poles do hate Russia.

As far as I know there are  no "ethnic Ukrainians" living in Poland, ever since the borders were moved after World War II, unless you mean migrant workers.

Of all the stories about mercenaries in the junta armies, the ones about Polish mercs are the most credible. After all, Maidan rioters got training in Poland. There is a well known photo of Turchynov hanging around with a former Polish officer and  known mercenary, and there are the trophies of Western small arms captured at the Donetsk airport. There have been lots of stories of foreign mercenaries circulated by the militia. This is the first confirmation from a credible and impartial Western eyewitness. Why would he make stuff up?  He was at the front and is not reporting rumors.

If you think there are no ethnic Ukrainians in Poland, then you know nothing about that country.


And that "flaming_python" poster, what precisely do you know about Poles and Poland? You really think that most ethnic Poles are really preoccupied with some unrelenting hatred of ethnic Russians? Most ethnic Poles view the fall of Communism in 1989 as a national disaster, and the Russians as better than the West.

But of course, like you ate all your wits and think that you know more about the ethnic Poles than a Pole?

Besides ethnic Poles have much better things to do now than being preoccupied with hating ethnic Russians, like cleaning toilets, and washing dishes, and simply trying to survive.

Most ethnic Poles are currently seeing the West and the Ukrainians nationalists as far bigger enemies than the Russians.

Dforce wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:Ukraine's poverty rate to hit 33 percent this year.

Disgraceful, what is Porky doing?

In Russia they know how to keep such things in check:

"But one poverty expert, who requested anonymity out of a fear of being seen to paint too grim a picture, said it could go as high as 18 percent, meaning about 9.7 million people will cross into poverty by the end of the year."