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    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

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    medo
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  medo on Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:30 am

    AFAIK , as far as MIGs' are concerned the Russian Defence Ministry have placed orders this year only for the upgraded MiG-29SMT fighters and the carrierborne MiG-29K/KUB aircraft .

    I know they ordered Mig-29K/KUB, but not that they ordered Mig-29SMT. How many Mig-29SMT they ordered and will they be new build or modernized existing planes?


    The Mig-29M2 is a two seat design, though there is a two seat and a single seat version, it is actually a case that instead of reduced fuel in the twin seat, it is actually a case of slightly more fuel in the single seat model. Both aircraft have the same cockpit canopy layout and structural design.

    It is not actually the case that fitting the Mig-29M2 with an AESA makes it a Mig-35, as the Mig-35 has 5th gen avionics including DAS, and upper and lower hemisphere IRST/FLIR designed for air to air and air to ground use.

    Will Mig-35 be single seater or two seater? I have a feeling, that RuAF will go in the same way with Migs as with Flankers, where they buy single seater Su-35 and two seater Su-30SM. Single seater Su-35 and Mig-35 would be dedicated air to air fighers, two seater Mig-29M2 and Su-30SM could be more multirole fighters, better suited for ground attack and SEAD missions because of second operator in back seat.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sujoy on Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:54 am

    TR1 wrote:Actually the MiG-29M2 is a lot more advanced than the UPG, in terms of airframe. The range is much better without the strap on spine tank.
    The UPG still has the vanilla Fulcrum airframe, same with SMT.
    The M2 has the second gen airframe, shared with miG-29K and MiG-35.
    They do share the Zhuk-M, but the M2 has quite a few systems installed that the SMT does not.

    That's true , however you are comparing the M2 with the older variant of the UPG . Not the upgraded. The upgraded version has rectified all the "shortcomings" of the earlier variant.Infact once upgradation is complete I understand the term UPG will become history . The new nomenclature is Mig 29 SMT. Even here in India upgradation work is currently underway & will be completed in all likelihood by 2014 .

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sujoy on Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:08 am

    medo wrote:
    I know they ordered Mig-29K/KUB, but not that they ordered Mig-29SMT. How many Mig-29SMT they ordered and will they be new build or modernized existing planes?

    The MIG 29 SMT is a modernized version of the MIG 29 SM. They can easily be upgraded to the SMT version. Sorry for my oversight in my previous post . I gave the impression that orders for the Mig 29 SMT & Mig 29K/KUB were both placed this year.

    The RuAF is receiving the upgraded MIG 29 SMT this year . This is not a new order however, the Russian Defense Ministry is deciding between the MIG 29M/M2 & the MIG 35 to be procured between 2015 & 2020.It depends on the stipulation of the government's armament program.


    medo wrote:
    Will Mig-35 be single seater or two seater? I have a feeling, that RuAF will go in the same way with Migs as with Flankers, where they buy single seater Su-35 and two seater Su-30SM. Single seater Su-35 and Mig-35 would be dedicated air to air fighers, two seater Mig-29M2 and Su-30SM could be more multirole fighters, better suited for ground attack and SEAD missions because of second operator in back seat.

    Two seater for the MIG 35D only not the MIG 35.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:05 am

    Ηοw many fighters you think that Russia needs? I think about 1000

    It is hard to say, if they get 250 PAK FAs (eventually), then about 100 Su-35s and lets say another 150 Su-30s/Su-27SM2, then we have 500 odd Sukhois, which is a good start. AFAIK the plans are for 50 odd Mig-29M2/35, and perhaps 100 Mig-29SMT upgrades of which they already have about 30 odd, and if you add 100 Mig-31s that are to be upgraded by 2020 at a bare minimum, and perhaps add another 150 that wont be upgraded but still might be available for use and perhaps 200 Su-27s and Mig-29s with minor upgrades that still might be in service and we end up with about 1,100 aircraft, but of course the numbers of old model Flankers and Fulcrums will decline fairly rapidly.

    The Russian AF has an enormous area to cover, but with a 1 million man armed force they can't afford to have thousands of aircraft any more.

    Fortunately for them the improvement in electronics and technology will allow a significant overlap in performance, so instead of having a Mig-27M ground attack unit and a Mig-23 fighter group, they can have a Mig-29M2 air group that can engage air and ground targets much more effectively than either of the older dedicated aircraft could manage thanks to new multi mode radars and sophisticated modern guided weaponry.

    Will Mig-35 be single seater or two seater?

    The Mig-29M2 and Mig-35 share the same aircraft structure, though with some fairly significant differences in terms of wing wiring and the location of sensors and avionics. The Mig-35 has the same long canopy that allows for single and two seat arrangements.

    Single seater Su-35 and Mig-35 would be dedicated air to air fighers, two seater Mig-29M2 and Su-30SM could be more multirole fighters, better suited for ground attack and SEAD missions because of second operator in back seat.

    Actually two seat '35s would offer operational training options while at the same time offering light strike, air command and other roles where the front seater focuses on flying the mission and the back seater can concentrate on other things... incredibly useful when things get busy...

    Of course the 5th gen avionics should be able to minimise the pilots work load by only showing pertinent information... in the middle of a dog fight the pilot does not need to know that the oil levels have dropped by a few litres since they took off an hour ago for instance. If however the oil is dropping rapidly and needs attention then it might be something that either needs automatic attention or the pilots attention to prevent the aircraft dropping from the sky.

    Two seater for the MIG 35D only not the MIG 35.

    So what you are saying is that the Mig-35D is the two seat Mig-35?

    I rather suspect they have changed from the tradition UB to denote the fact that the new aircraft is fully operational rather than a reduced range radarless training aircraft. Perhaps D for double as in two seat?

    The Mig-29K2, Mig-29M2, and Mig-35 all share the same airframe/cockpit design which allows single seat or two seat arrangements without reducing fuel or changing the length of the aircraft or removing radars to compensate for the weight change.

    Very simply the aircraft was designed with the second pilot in mind. When that pilot is not there (ie in a single seat configuration) that area is used for fuel and other bits and pieces.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:08 am

    GarryB wrote:So what you are saying is that the Mig-35D is the two seat Mig-35?
    Precisely . There are hardly any difference between the two . Service ceiling , max overload , the whole nine .

    Below is a picture of the MIG 35 (I had seen this same aircraft model in Aero India ). Notice it has 2 seats though on the outside it is written MIG 35. Infact I haven't so far come across any MIG 35 that has MIG 35D written anywhere on the outside of the aircraft, fuselage , wings etc. For countries that do not need two seat Mig 35 , they can have additional fuel tanks , equipments etc in place of that second seat.



    Andrey Fomin came out with a vivid layout of the MIG 35 / MIG 35D which I feel till date is the best drawing presented in print . Please find the layout below :

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  medo on Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:47 pm

    Ηοw many fighters you think that Russia needs? I think about 1000

    I would say 1000+ fighters. Russia have large air space to defend.


    Fortunately for them the improvement in electronics and technology will allow a significant overlap in performance, so instead of having a Mig-27M ground attack unit and a Mig-23 fighter group, they can have a Mig-29M2 air group that can engage air and ground targets much more effectively than either of the older dedicated aircraft could manage thanks to new multi mode radars and sophisticated modern guided weaponry.

    True. But there will be still the same number of pilots. Before you have two types of single seaters, fighters who cares for air combat and attackers, who concentrate on ground targets, while fighters protect them. Multirole Mig-29M2 or Mig-35 must have two seats, where pilot is concentrated in flying and air combat, while second member is in the mean time trying to hit something on the ground. One pilot could not do both at the same time.

    In my opinion RuAF ordered both Su-35 and Su-30SM in the same way, to have single seat Su-35 air defense fighter and two seat miltirole Su-30SM fighter. I think Mig-29M2 or Mig-35 will also be two seat multirole fighter.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:21 pm

    MiG-29 Fighter Jet Crashes in Siberia

    A Russian Air Force MiG-29 fighter crashed on Thursday near Chita, in Siberia, a regional law enforcement source said.

    “The plane crashed near the town of Domna, 30 kilometers from Chita,” the source said.

    According to first reports, the pilot was killed.

    The MiG-29 is a multirole fourth-generation fighter. At present there are 270 MiG-29s in the Russian Air Force and 40 in the Navy.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120906/175809233.html
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sujoy on Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:01 pm

    George1 wrote:MiG-29 Fighter Jet Crashes in Siberia

    A Russian Air Force MiG-29 fighter crashed on Thursday near Chita, in Siberia, a regional law enforcement source said.

    “The plane crashed near the town of Domna, 30 kilometers from Chita,” the source said.

    According to first reports, the pilot was killed.

    The MiG-29 is a multirole fourth-generation fighter. At present there are 270 MiG-29s in the Russian Air Force and 40 in the Navy.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120906/175809233.html

    Very sad . Not sure how pilots get killed . Maybe vertigo is responsible because of which they fail to eject .

    May his soul rest in peace.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:45 am

    Last report I read said it flew into terrain (ie a hill).

    This suggests a navigational error or bad weather or faulty equipment or pilot error.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:30 am

    an order for new MiG-35 must be placed soon (70-80 aircrafts)
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:09 pm

    The Mig-35 is probably in the same place the Su-35 was in 2010... ie needing an order to get a few pre production prototypes produced and tested and then get them into production. With an order right now I would suspect that they could probably start producing them for service by 2015 or so, with perhaps another 2 years in the operational training units drawing up operations manuals and maintainence manuals for their operation, so yeah... even an order of 48 right now would be useful.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  medo on Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:10 pm

    I hope order will be placed soon.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:33 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    George1 wrote:MiG-29 Fighter Jet Crashes in Siberia

    A Russian Air Force MiG-29 fighter crashed on Thursday near Chita, in Siberia, a regional law enforcement source said.

    “The plane crashed near the town of Domna, 30 kilometers from Chita,” the source said.

    According to first reports, the pilot was killed.

    The MiG-29 is a multirole fourth-generation fighter. At present there are 270 MiG-29s in the Russian Air Force and 40 in the Navy.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120906/175809233.html

    Very sad . Not sure how pilots get killed . Maybe vertigo is responsible because of which they fail to eject .

    May his soul rest in peace.

    I don't think it was the case this time; but often the pilots get killed in these sorts of incidents because they are flying near settlements and population-centres and when they loose control they try and stay in the aircraft as long as possible in order to ensure that it doesn't hit anyone.

    Of course population density is generally very low in Russia so you would think that these planes could simply find a spot to fly where no-one lives at all - however in practise I believe that they rarely exercise far from their airfield, and since every airfield/military base is part of some nearby garrison, where a considerable amount of people can sometimes live - this is the reason for the problem.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:17 pm

    Often when terrain is hit, it is because for some reason or another the pilot thinks they are much higher than they actually are and don't realise the danger they are in... when they hit the ground it comes as a surprise so there is no chance to eject.

    Most pilots prefer to land and will often have a few things they can try to save the aircraft before it hits the ground. The problem is when flying lower than you think you are you might not realise you have rather less time than you think.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:55 am

    Many people are ridiculing the MiG-35 as an export failure due to the MMRCA compettiton. The question is can it erase some of its bad reputation and find another customer or is everybody considering it as an inferior aircraft and theres no interest unlike the su-30MK?

    Are there plans for russia to buy it?
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:15 am

    Are the F-16 and Typhoon and F-35 programs failures... they didn't win the MRCA competition either.

    The Russian AF is currently deciding whether to buy Mig-35s or Mig-29M2s.

    Personally I hope they bite the bullet and go for the Mig-35s, but even if they don't in about 2020 they will likely upgrade the Mig-29M2s with hardware and equipment developed for the Mig-35, or better, so I guess it ultimately really doesn't matter which they choose.

    Would be nice to see the Mig-35 in service however...


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:24 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Many people are ridiculing the MiG-35 as an export failure due to the MMRCA compettiton. The question is can it erase some of its bad reputation and find another customer or is everybody considering it as an inferior aircraft and theres no interest unlike the su-30MK?

    Are there plans for russia to buy it?
    Who is everybody? What people?
    Random teens on forums?
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sujoy on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:21 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Many people are ridiculing the MiG-35 as an export failure due to the MMRCA compettiton. The question is can it erase some of its bad reputation and find another customer or is everybody considering it as an inferior aircraft and theres no interest unlike the su-30MK?

    Are there plans for russia to buy it?

    There is a tendency among European & American defense contractors to criticize the products of rivals. This ensures that rival products get a bad press and in turn puts away buyers . The MIG 35 did not make it in the MMRCA competition for a variety of reasons but most importantly the Indian Air Force wanted a tried & tested aircraft.

    FYI - Even the F 35 was not considered for the same reason in the MMRCA competition. It still remains an "export failure"..

    See the list of technical failures below :

    http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/274217/dod-quick-look-ahern-report.pdf


    According to Izvestiya the Defense Ministry doesn’t plan to modernize the MiG-29. Therefore UAC will produce 20 or 24 MiG-35s every year to replace 150 or 160 MiG-29s in Russia’s inventory.

    There is also a potential export market for the MIG 35 in the light to medium range fighter export market which is currently being dominated by China's J 10.


    Last edited by Sujoy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:32 pm

    According to Izvestiya the Defense Ministry doesn’t plan to modernize the MiG-29. Therefore UAC will produce 20 or 24 MiG-35s every year to replace 150 or 160 MiG-29s in Russia’s inventory.

    That is fantastic news if it can be confirmed.

    Would love to see the new AESA they are developing for the Mig-35 make it to the Mig-31 in an enlarged antenna form of course...

    Note the new Mig-35 will likely be equipped with the RVV-BD missile with a flight range of 280km.

    With its new AESA radar it should easily be able to detect targets like AWACS and JSTARS and even tanker aircraft and troop transports at more than 300kms so it would be a handy weapon to carry.

    I have only seen models of the 5 pylon wing... would love to see the Mig-35 enter full service... especially operating along side Su-35s and PAK FAs.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:42 pm

    Izvestia is making things up from "sources" again, there are absolutely no plans for such high numbers. Su-35 numbers are supposed to barely reach 100 by 2020, forget about 20 new MiGs yearly.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:04 pm

    By the way,
    One of more than half a dozen MiG-29M-2 at the 2012 Batajnica Airshow is seen taxiing to the main apron after its loud - yet slightly unexciting - display. The latest incarnation of the venerable -29, this example unusually carried only basic Russian AF markings and no codes whatsoever.

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sujoy on Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:38 pm

    TR1 wrote:Izvestia is making things up from "sources" again, there are absolutely no plans for such high numbers. Su-35 numbers are supposed to barely reach 100 by 2020, forget about 20 new MiGs yearly.

    Makes sense. I presume this is one major handicap that a foreigner like me faces when it comes to authenticating news pertaining to Russia (though I solely rely on Russian news outlet for information about Russia). Unlike say about a FOX news or BBC or even Indian media outlets we tend to know where their alliance are and thereby makes sure lies are told properly.

    http://izvestia.ru/news/504391

    Nonetheless , I was able to find a co-relation , albeit slim , between Izvestia’s “assertions” and announcements made by Putin regarding arming RuAF with 1600 new warplanes by 2020.



    In light of the above statements made by Putin it’s quite likely that UAC will produce 20 + MIG 35 aircrafts per year. Question is once the T 50 is inducted , what role will the MIG 35 play . It can be exported , however the tendency among buyers is to give more weightage to aircrafts that are already , successfully been operated by the seller in their country . It had been speculated in a number of quarters across Russia that the MIG 35 was a last ditch effort on the part of Mikoyan to stay afloat especially at a time when Sukhoi was stealing the show with the highly in demand SU 30 range of aircrafts . Anyways , given the fact that the T 50 will be a game changer it will be interesting to find out what role the MIG 35 will be assigned to play in the Russian airspace.

    George1 wrote:Can MiG-35 face the F-35?
    We will get to know only after Russia & USA exports the MIG 35 & F 35 respectively to a third party. That said the F 35 should not fancy it’s chances in a WVR contest with the MIG 35. List of technical failures of the F 35 are listed in the link below :
    http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/274217/dod-quick-look-ahern-report.pdf


    GarryB wrote:Note the new Mig-35 will likely be equipped with the RVV-BD missile with a flight range of 280km.
    Momentous

    GarryB wrote:With its new AESA radar it should easily be able to detect targets like AWACS and JSTARS and even tanker aircraft and troop transports at more than 300kms so it would be a handy weapon to carry.
    addendum : The SU 30 MKI is already capable of doing that (without an AESA radar) . N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere . I suspect that the SU 30 SM probably have this ability as well


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:47 am

    addendum : The SU 30 MKI is already capable of doing that (without an AESA radar) . N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere . I suspect that the SU 30 SM probably have this ability as well

    With aircraft like JSTARS and AWACS that emit radar waves as part of their job, actual detection can occur at enormous ranges no matter what radar set you are equipped with.

    I remember reading the Air Force stating the Mig-29s are getting worn out and they have decided not to upgrade them.

    I would love to think that ensures they will order Mig-35s, but the last official statement I read suggested they were trying to decide between the Mig-29M2 or the Mig-35.

    If only I was in charge of the India Air Force... I would have changed the result of the MRCA competition and awarded it to both the Rafale and the Mig-35.

    For the 20 billion they are going to now spend I would have said that 10 billion goes to Mig for 126 Mig-35s, and the remaining 10 billion goes to France for 63 Rafales, and get the best of both worlds.

    I would then trade in the existing Mig-29s and replace them one for one for Mig-29M2s, and over time upgrade them till eventually they are Mig-35s too, or at least share compatible equipment and systems.

    The money spent with Mig on AESAs and engines could be applied to the Mig-29K2s so they could get AESAs and other new bits and bobs as well.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sujoy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:If only I was in charge of the India Air Force... I would have changed the result of the MRCA competition and awarded it to both the Rafale and the Mig-35.

    You may still choose to apply , the IAF is always in the lookout for consultants ...foreign or domestic.

    GarryB wrote:For the 20 billion they are going to now spend I would have said that 10 billion goes to Mig for 126 Mig-35s, and the remaining 10 billion goes to France for 63 Rafales, and get the best of both worlds.

    The entire MMRCA fiasco was started by the incompetent & often corrupt officials who run the DRDO in concert with various arms dealer . The failure of the DRDO to deliver the LCA(Tejas) on time compelled the IAF to order the MMRCA.By the time all the 126 Rafales make it into the IAF sometime around 2018 the T 50/FGFA will also become ready for service. Plus there will be an option of a sea variant of the T 50/FGFA. So, at a time when most advanced air forces in the world will be flying 5th gen aircrafts only the IAF will be flying a 4th gen aircraft.

    There were no winners in the MMRCA deal ...... just one looser ....the INDIAN taxpayer
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:57 am

    The ridiculous thing is that for the 20 billion dollars it is going to cost they could have invested it in Tegas years ago and had that aircraft in wide spread service right now... ten billion to fix the obvious problems and add capabilities you might want and then ten billion more for state of the art production facilities and materials and tooling and training of course, and for redesign for anything that comes up during the first 5 years of service.

    The Tegas doesn't need to be an Su-30MKI, or a PAK FA or F-35... if it was just a reliable and safe Mig-21 little agile fighter bomber with top of the range weapons and modern AESA and self defence suite it would be perfect for India.

    You could even bring in Mig and make it a joint venture that could result in a light cheap fighter for Russia too.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

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