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    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

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    Sujoy
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sujoy on Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:01 pm

    George1 wrote:MiG-29 Fighter Jet Crashes in Siberia

    A Russian Air Force MiG-29 fighter crashed on Thursday near Chita, in Siberia, a regional law enforcement source said.

    “The plane crashed near the town of Domna, 30 kilometers from Chita,” the source said.

    According to first reports, the pilot was killed.

    The MiG-29 is a multirole fourth-generation fighter. At present there are 270 MiG-29s in the Russian Air Force and 40 in the Navy.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120906/175809233.html

    Very sad . Not sure how pilots get killed . Maybe vertigo is responsible because of which they fail to eject .

    May his soul rest in peace.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:45 am

    Last report I read said it flew into terrain (ie a hill).

    This suggests a navigational error or bad weather or faulty equipment or pilot error.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:30 am

    an order for new MiG-35 must be placed soon (70-80 aircrafts)
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:09 pm

    The Mig-35 is probably in the same place the Su-35 was in 2010... ie needing an order to get a few pre production prototypes produced and tested and then get them into production. With an order right now I would suspect that they could probably start producing them for service by 2015 or so, with perhaps another 2 years in the operational training units drawing up operations manuals and maintainence manuals for their operation, so yeah... even an order of 48 right now would be useful.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  medo on Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:10 pm

    I hope order will be placed soon.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:33 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    George1 wrote:MiG-29 Fighter Jet Crashes in Siberia

    A Russian Air Force MiG-29 fighter crashed on Thursday near Chita, in Siberia, a regional law enforcement source said.

    “The plane crashed near the town of Domna, 30 kilometers from Chita,” the source said.

    According to first reports, the pilot was killed.

    The MiG-29 is a multirole fourth-generation fighter. At present there are 270 MiG-29s in the Russian Air Force and 40 in the Navy.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120906/175809233.html

    Very sad . Not sure how pilots get killed . Maybe vertigo is responsible because of which they fail to eject .

    May his soul rest in peace.

    I don't think it was the case this time; but often the pilots get killed in these sorts of incidents because they are flying near settlements and population-centres and when they loose control they try and stay in the aircraft as long as possible in order to ensure that it doesn't hit anyone.

    Of course population density is generally very low in Russia so you would think that these planes could simply find a spot to fly where no-one lives at all - however in practise I believe that they rarely exercise far from their airfield, and since every airfield/military base is part of some nearby garrison, where a considerable amount of people can sometimes live - this is the reason for the problem.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:17 pm

    Often when terrain is hit, it is because for some reason or another the pilot thinks they are much higher than they actually are and don't realise the danger they are in... when they hit the ground it comes as a surprise so there is no chance to eject.

    Most pilots prefer to land and will often have a few things they can try to save the aircraft before it hits the ground. The problem is when flying lower than you think you are you might not realise you have rather less time than you think.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:55 am

    Many people are ridiculing the MiG-35 as an export failure due to the MMRCA compettiton. The question is can it erase some of its bad reputation and find another customer or is everybody considering it as an inferior aircraft and theres no interest unlike the su-30MK?

    Are there plans for russia to buy it?
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:15 am

    Are the F-16 and Typhoon and F-35 programs failures... they didn't win the MRCA competition either.

    The Russian AF is currently deciding whether to buy Mig-35s or Mig-29M2s.

    Personally I hope they bite the bullet and go for the Mig-35s, but even if they don't in about 2020 they will likely upgrade the Mig-29M2s with hardware and equipment developed for the Mig-35, or better, so I guess it ultimately really doesn't matter which they choose.

    Would be nice to see the Mig-35 in service however...


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:24 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Many people are ridiculing the MiG-35 as an export failure due to the MMRCA compettiton. The question is can it erase some of its bad reputation and find another customer or is everybody considering it as an inferior aircraft and theres no interest unlike the su-30MK?

    Are there plans for russia to buy it?
    Who is everybody? What people?
    Random teens on forums?
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sujoy on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:21 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Many people are ridiculing the MiG-35 as an export failure due to the MMRCA compettiton. The question is can it erase some of its bad reputation and find another customer or is everybody considering it as an inferior aircraft and theres no interest unlike the su-30MK?

    Are there plans for russia to buy it?

    There is a tendency among European & American defense contractors to criticize the products of rivals. This ensures that rival products get a bad press and in turn puts away buyers . The MIG 35 did not make it in the MMRCA competition for a variety of reasons but most importantly the Indian Air Force wanted a tried & tested aircraft.

    FYI - Even the F 35 was not considered for the same reason in the MMRCA competition. It still remains an "export failure"..

    See the list of technical failures below :

    http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/274217/dod-quick-look-ahern-report.pdf


    According to Izvestiya the Defense Ministry doesn’t plan to modernize the MiG-29. Therefore UAC will produce 20 or 24 MiG-35s every year to replace 150 or 160 MiG-29s in Russia’s inventory.

    There is also a potential export market for the MIG 35 in the light to medium range fighter export market which is currently being dominated by China's J 10.


    Last edited by Sujoy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:32 pm

    According to Izvestiya the Defense Ministry doesn’t plan to modernize the MiG-29. Therefore UAC will produce 20 or 24 MiG-35s every year to replace 150 or 160 MiG-29s in Russia’s inventory.

    That is fantastic news if it can be confirmed.

    Would love to see the new AESA they are developing for the Mig-35 make it to the Mig-31 in an enlarged antenna form of course...

    Note the new Mig-35 will likely be equipped with the RVV-BD missile with a flight range of 280km.

    With its new AESA radar it should easily be able to detect targets like AWACS and JSTARS and even tanker aircraft and troop transports at more than 300kms so it would be a handy weapon to carry.

    I have only seen models of the 5 pylon wing... would love to see the Mig-35 enter full service... especially operating along side Su-35s and PAK FAs.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:42 pm

    Izvestia is making things up from "sources" again, there are absolutely no plans for such high numbers. Su-35 numbers are supposed to barely reach 100 by 2020, forget about 20 new MiGs yearly.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:04 pm

    By the way,
    One of more than half a dozen MiG-29M-2 at the 2012 Batajnica Airshow is seen taxiing to the main apron after its loud - yet slightly unexciting - display. The latest incarnation of the venerable -29, this example unusually carried only basic Russian AF markings and no codes whatsoever.

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sujoy on Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:38 pm

    TR1 wrote:Izvestia is making things up from "sources" again, there are absolutely no plans for such high numbers. Su-35 numbers are supposed to barely reach 100 by 2020, forget about 20 new MiGs yearly.

    Makes sense. I presume this is one major handicap that a foreigner like me faces when it comes to authenticating news pertaining to Russia (though I solely rely on Russian news outlet for information about Russia). Unlike say about a FOX news or BBC or even Indian media outlets we tend to know where their alliance are and thereby makes sure lies are told properly.

    http://izvestia.ru/news/504391

    Nonetheless , I was able to find a co-relation , albeit slim , between Izvestia’s “assertions” and announcements made by Putin regarding arming RuAF with 1600 new warplanes by 2020.



    In light of the above statements made by Putin it’s quite likely that UAC will produce 20 + MIG 35 aircrafts per year. Question is once the T 50 is inducted , what role will the MIG 35 play . It can be exported , however the tendency among buyers is to give more weightage to aircrafts that are already , successfully been operated by the seller in their country . It had been speculated in a number of quarters across Russia that the MIG 35 was a last ditch effort on the part of Mikoyan to stay afloat especially at a time when Sukhoi was stealing the show with the highly in demand SU 30 range of aircrafts . Anyways , given the fact that the T 50 will be a game changer it will be interesting to find out what role the MIG 35 will be assigned to play in the Russian airspace.

    George1 wrote:Can MiG-35 face the F-35?
    We will get to know only after Russia & USA exports the MIG 35 & F 35 respectively to a third party. That said the F 35 should not fancy it’s chances in a WVR contest with the MIG 35. List of technical failures of the F 35 are listed in the link below :
    http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/274217/dod-quick-look-ahern-report.pdf


    GarryB wrote:Note the new Mig-35 will likely be equipped with the RVV-BD missile with a flight range of 280km.
    Momentous

    GarryB wrote:With its new AESA radar it should easily be able to detect targets like AWACS and JSTARS and even tanker aircraft and troop transports at more than 300kms so it would be a handy weapon to carry.
    addendum : The SU 30 MKI is already capable of doing that (without an AESA radar) . N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere . I suspect that the SU 30 SM probably have this ability as well


    Last edited by Sujoy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:47 am

    addendum : The SU 30 MKI is already capable of doing that (without an AESA radar) . N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere . I suspect that the SU 30 SM probably have this ability as well

    With aircraft like JSTARS and AWACS that emit radar waves as part of their job, actual detection can occur at enormous ranges no matter what radar set you are equipped with.

    I remember reading the Air Force stating the Mig-29s are getting worn out and they have decided not to upgrade them.

    I would love to think that ensures they will order Mig-35s, but the last official statement I read suggested they were trying to decide between the Mig-29M2 or the Mig-35.

    If only I was in charge of the India Air Force... I would have changed the result of the MRCA competition and awarded it to both the Rafale and the Mig-35.

    For the 20 billion they are going to now spend I would have said that 10 billion goes to Mig for 126 Mig-35s, and the remaining 10 billion goes to France for 63 Rafales, and get the best of both worlds.

    I would then trade in the existing Mig-29s and replace them one for one for Mig-29M2s, and over time upgrade them till eventually they are Mig-35s too, or at least share compatible equipment and systems.

    The money spent with Mig on AESAs and engines could be applied to the Mig-29K2s so they could get AESAs and other new bits and bobs as well.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sujoy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:If only I was in charge of the India Air Force... I would have changed the result of the MRCA competition and awarded it to both the Rafale and the Mig-35.

    You may still choose to apply , the IAF is always in the lookout for consultants ...foreign or domestic.

    GarryB wrote:For the 20 billion they are going to now spend I would have said that 10 billion goes to Mig for 126 Mig-35s, and the remaining 10 billion goes to France for 63 Rafales, and get the best of both worlds.

    The entire MMRCA fiasco was started by the incompetent & often corrupt officials who run the DRDO in concert with various arms dealer . The failure of the DRDO to deliver the LCA(Tejas) on time compelled the IAF to order the MMRCA.By the time all the 126 Rafales make it into the IAF sometime around 2018 the T 50/FGFA will also become ready for service. Plus there will be an option of a sea variant of the T 50/FGFA. So, at a time when most advanced air forces in the world will be flying 5th gen aircrafts only the IAF will be flying a 4th gen aircraft.

    There were no winners in the MMRCA deal ...... just one looser ....the INDIAN taxpayer
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:57 am

    The ridiculous thing is that for the 20 billion dollars it is going to cost they could have invested it in Tegas years ago and had that aircraft in wide spread service right now... ten billion to fix the obvious problems and add capabilities you might want and then ten billion more for state of the art production facilities and materials and tooling and training of course, and for redesign for anything that comes up during the first 5 years of service.

    The Tegas doesn't need to be an Su-30MKI, or a PAK FA or F-35... if it was just a reliable and safe Mig-21 little agile fighter bomber with top of the range weapons and modern AESA and self defence suite it would be perfect for India.

    You could even bring in Mig and make it a joint venture that could result in a light cheap fighter for Russia too.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Viktor on Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:11 pm

    Here it goes.

    Russian Air Force will arm MiG-35 in 2014


    Deliveries of new multi-role MiG-35 in the Russian Air Force in 2014. On this, as reported by RIA Novosti , said the CEO of the corporation "MiG" Sergei Korotkov. According to him, the delivery of new fighters in the army are registered in the Russian State Armaments Program for 2011-2020.
    In July 2009, it was reported that the Ministry of Defense of Russia intends to build in the Air Force at least two squadrons of MiG-35 in 2015. Initially, the contract for the supply of MiG-35 Russian Air Force planned to conclude in 2009, but it did not.

    The MiG-35 will be available in single (MiG-35) and double (MiG-35D) versions. The aircraft is capable of speeds up to 2.4 thousand kilometers per hour, and its practical range of about three thousand kilometers. The fighter is armed with 30-millimeter cannon and equipped with ten hardpoints for missiles and bombs weighing up to 6.5 tons.

    The MiG-35 is set radar with active phased array antenna "Bug-A", capable of detecting aerodynamic targets at a distance of 200 km and ground targets - up to 60 kilometers. Radar can track up to 30 targets and provide fire eight of them.

    http://lenta.ru/news/2012/10/25/mig35/

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Austin on Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:50 am

    I think they should go for 100 odd Mig-35 or a combination of Mig-35/Mig-29M2 in similar numbers.

    This would also end up being cost effective.


    Rafale is a great fighter to the IAF but Logistically speaking Mig-35 would have served her well as IN plans to operate 45 Mig-29K which has many similarities to Mig-35 and IAF will operate Mig-29UPG for next 25 years.

    I always felt that IAF was shortsighted as far as Logistics goes ......we probably are the only airforce in the world that operates a wide number of Western and Eastern aircraft and similar numbers of weapons/sensors.

    I am sure IAF operational cost will be mind boggling since they will have to operate such varried type but IAF will never disclose these cost.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:47 am

    At the airfield in Zhukovsky spotted MiG-29ub in new camouflage uniforms.

    Visible in the background is the second prototype t-50 (Pak FA)

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  medo on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:23 pm

    George1 wrote:At the airfield in Zhukovsky spotted MiG-29ub in new camouflage uniforms.

    Visible in the background is the second prototype t-50 (Pak FA)


    This one could be Mig-29UBT or modernized Mig-29UB, because standard Mig-29UB doesn't have luminiscent lights for night formation flight.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Stealthflanker on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:59 pm

    So are Russia really going to order MiG-35 ?..or simply upgrade their MiG-29's into "modern standard" like the Algerian miG's

    and how's the MiG-29K going ?
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:10 am

    The decision needs to be made as to whether they buy Mig-29M2s or Mig-35s... the latter more expensive, but also more capable.

    It is pretty unlikely they will upgrade a large number of aircraft as most reports seem to suggest they are pretty tired and have either been used pretty hard or neglected for the last two decades.

    Regarding the Mig-29K2 it should be the standard Russian Carrier based fighter bomber till about 2025 when I suspect they will have a naval PAK FA ready for naval use.

    In terms of size and weight the PAK FA seems to be at the Mig-29 end of the weight spectrum, so with its powerful engines it should be able to operate from carriers.

    I rather suspect the Russians will develop EM catapults for the K and any new carriers... mainly to allow heavier aircraft like AWACS aircraft to operate from their smallish carriers. Developing a steam catapult would be expensive, but it would make sense to develop an EM cat... it is like designing a new gun... you start with the state of the art... you don't waste time and money on developing a match lock musket first and then a flint lock musket etc.

    Developing EM cats wont be cheap or easy but developing steam cats wouldn't be cheap or easy either... if they have to spend the money they can develop EM technology while they are at it.


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sancho on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:57 am

    GarryB wrote:Regarding the Mig-29K2 it should be the standard Russian Carrier based fighter bomber till about 2025 when I suspect they will have a naval PAK FA ready for naval use.

    Some reports suggested that the Russian Mig 29Ks will have Zhuk AESA and more powerful engines, is that correct? If so are any reliable specs available and will these fighters use the 3D TVC capability of the Mig 35 as well?

    With regard to the MMRCA, the Mig had no choice for numerous reasons. It is simply is not a modern design anymore and it's future potential is very limited.
    The main point for it's rejection though was even openly stated by former Air Chief Naik, IAF didn't wanted to put all eggs in one basket. The Mig would have offered IAF with the same weapons and mainly A2A capabilities, that the MKIs and Mig 29UPGs already offers. In the A2G field on the other side it is clearly inferior to the MKI, but offensive strikes against Chinese forces played an important role in the competition from the begining, which is why IAF wasn't too impressed by Mig 29SMT, nor of the Mig35 later.
    That's why IAF initially prefered a cheap, but more multi role Mirage 2000, which would have kept logistics and training simple as well. The switch to M-MRCA was more a political push, since MoD understoods the need of more industrial help. That's why it's not too surprising that the 2 fighters that offers the most future potential, (EF at least on paper)the most capable cruise missiles and also the best industrial offers for India. The one that offers the most in return came out as the winner and will form a great combo with the MKI.
    With additional MKI orders, big upgrade packages coming and the FGFA co-development, Russia will remain to have a big stack in IAF anyway, so loosing MMRCA shouldn't be that much of a problem for Russia.


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