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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

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    Werewolf
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:13 am

    So yes Americans Government have many ways to pressure Germany and france into becoming a loyal puppetship.. but if France and germany had to pick between risking sanctions themselves with major unrest in their cities and world war 3 with nuclear weapons.. which option you think they will pick..?

    Very simple, they have already chosen to go for full blown war against russia.

    You have to understand that Germany is not ruled by germans, not even ethnically or nationality, Merkel is jewish Pole for example Kazmierczak her real name.

    They don't feel anything for germany because they are not germans, they are most of the time not even germans and some have double citizenship which already tells you right out that they are oligarchs. She is a zionazi bitch that does what is expected of other zionazis of her. WW3 is set in stone how it will turn out is a different question, but it will take place again in europe.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  Hisroyalhighness on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:19 am

    Can we focus more on the conflict and less on conspiracy theories?

    IMAGE: Residents on Monday stacked rockets fragments & other ordinance fired by #Ukraine's Army on #Pervomaisk. @AP wrote:


    flamming_python
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:24 am

    TR1 wrote:Btw, way back there was a claim by Poroshenko that they hit a "Russian convoy" and destroyed it.

    Looks like it was not completely fantasy. There are photos (dated to the time) on LostArmor that show a trio of burned out MTLB vehicles, likely hit by artillery, on a road. Who was in these vehicles I cannot say, and clearly there was the usual exaggeration, but they hit something.

    Rebel convoy most likely, or Ukrainian vehicles.

    Russia has trained, organized and of course armed rebel battallions in Rostov. Back when the Illovaisk episode happened, some 2 of these battallions were just entering the fray and were spotted.

    It's probably them, together with some Russian spec-ops/spotters and other specialists that turned the tide.

    I do rather doubt that Russia has actually been sending 'columns' of its own men and vehicles into the Ukraine though. Although it's possible.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:26 am

    Are these Strela-10s or whatever really something Novorussia needs? Ukrops have no air force. I would rather give them some roboust modern artillery with guided munitions. Or even equipped an infantry platoon for that money.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:27 am

    Hisroyalhighness wrote:Can we focus more on the conflict and less on conspiracy theories?

    Welcome to russiadefence.net
    Put the appropriate offenders on your ignore list and you'll have less conspiracy nonsense clogging up the screen.

    You got smacked hard outta mp.net so you might as well try and enjoy your stay here with us for the next 3 months Smile

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  Kyo on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:34 am

    With the new Minsk agreement, Putin has got himself into a catch-22 situation. There must be something he knows by himself. Otherwise he would seemingly appear to be naïve.

    TR1
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  TR1 on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:40 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Btw, way back there was a claim by Poroshenko that they hit a "Russian convoy" and destroyed it.

    Looks like it was not completely fantasy. There are photos (dated to the time) on LostArmor that show a trio of burned out MTLB vehicles, likely hit by artillery, on a road. Who was in these vehicles I cannot say, and clearly there was the usual exaggeration, but they hit something.

    Rebel convoy most likely, or Ukrainian vehicles.

    Russia has trained, organized and of course armed rebel battallions in Rostov. Back when the Illovaisk episode happened, some 2 of these battallions were just entering the fray and were spotted.

    It's probably them, together with some Russian spec-ops/spotters and other specialists that turned the tide.

    I do rather doubt that Russia has actually been sending 'columns' of its own men and vehicles into the Ukraine though. Although it's possible.

    Vehicles from Russia, 100%. Volunteers, rebels from Donbass, or vacationers, I cannot say.

    Here are the pics btw, looks like damage was limited to "just" the 3 MTLBs:

    http://roadcontrol.org.ua/node/2297

    http://lostarmour.info/media/images/id483-03.jpg

    http://lostarmour.info/media/images/id484-02.jpg

    That Ukranian tidbit about Russian paratroopers being taken prisoner is baloney of course, or otherwise you would think they would parade them in front of a camera real quick.

    Not to mention it would imply they coordinate an artillery strike then swooped in rapidly to take prisoners....

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  Hisroyalhighness on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:41 am

    flamming_python wrote:

    Welcome to russiadefence.net
    Put the appropriate offenders on your ignore list and you'll have less conspiracy nonsense clogging up the screen.
    Thanks Mate, hearing the nutbirds squawking about Zionists and WW3 gets annoying fast.

    You got smacked hard outta mp.net so you might as well try and enjoy your stay here with us for the next 3 months Smile
    I see you've got your ear to the ground, yeah I got booted. Thankfully, it's not permanent.

    Maybe I'll learn to love this community as well and keep returning to it after my vacation expires. respekt





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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  Hisroyalhighness on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:51 am

    Here are some points to the Minsk deal:


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  ahmedfire on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:54 am

    Pentagon deploys A-10 attack jets, 300 pilots to Germany amid Ukraine turmoil

    he US Air Force dispatched a dozen A-10 Thunderbolt II attack jets and about 300 airmen to Germany as part of a military exercise, which is expected to involve NATO allies in Eastern Europe amid simmering tensions over Ukraine.

    The Cold War-era aircraft, nicknamed the Warthog, on Monday departed Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Arizona for Spangdahlem Air Base in Germany as part of Operation Atlantic Resolve

    Lt. Col. Christopher Karns, a spokesman for the Air Force at the Pentagon, said the aircraft would “forward-deploy” to sites in Eastern European NATO states, where the units will participate in training with allied forces to “strengthen interoperability and…demonstrate US commitment to the security and stability of Europe," he told military.com.

    The highly reliable A-10 carries a seven-barrel GAU-8/A Avenger Gatling gun that fires 30mm rounds designed to destroy tanks and other armored combat vehicles.

    The deployment comes as the US House of Representatives introduced legislation authorizing $1 billion in military aid to Ukraine through 2017. If authorized, the package would allow the Pentagon to provide to the Ukraine military “training equipment, lethal weapons of a defensive nature, logistics support, supplies and services.”

    The provisions of the bill, according to its authors, are designed to protect Ukraine’s “sovereign territory against foreign aggressors,” and defend Ukrainians from attacks by “Russian-backed separatists.”

    Russia said Tuesday that Washington’s plans to supply Kiev with weapons would further destabilize the situation in Ukraine.

    Western governments, without finding it necessary to substantiate their claims with physical evidence, continue to accuse Russia of supporting rebels in Eastern Ukraine blaming the crisis on Russia. Moscow has vehemently rejected the claims.

    At the same time, Moscow is regularly on the receiving end of criticism from Washington even when it holds military exercises on its own territory.

    In February of last year, as Ukraine was engulfed in chaos not far from Russia’s border, the White House expressed concern that the Russian military held drills. “[W]e are closely watching Russia’s military exercises along the Ukrainian border,” White House spokesman Jay Carney stated.

    Meanwhile, Washington and Europe remain at loggerheads over the question of arms shipments to Ukraine. German Chancellor Angela Merkel told the annual Munich Security Conference on Saturday that Germany remained convinced that it would be far more productive “to focus our efforts on seeking a diplomatic solution" to the Ukrainian crisis. Her position is widely supported in European capitals, as well as in Moscow.

    “Russia is truly interested in solving the crisis. All other plans to increase sanctions, supply arms and so on, are aimed at destabilizing the situation in Ukraine,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.

    rt.com/news/231255-pentagon-europe-exercises-ukraine/

    Hisroyalhighness
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  Hisroyalhighness on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:06 am

    Not as significant as the deployment of the Abrams to the Baltics, but I digress usual saber-rattling.

    The 3 #Ukraine soldiers who tried to surrender got shot & killed by "national guard" 25m away from #NAF trenches #Debaltsevo
    https://twitter.com/Steiner1776/status/565556016453267457

    kvs
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  kvs on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:19 am

    Hisroyalhighness wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    Welcome to russiadefence.net
    Put the appropriate offenders on your ignore list and you'll have less conspiracy nonsense clogging up the screen.
    Thanks Mate, hearing the nutbirds squawking about Zionists and WW3 gets annoying fast.

    You got smacked hard outta mp.net so you might as well try and enjoy your stay here with us for the next 3 months Smile
    I see you've got your ear to the ground, yeah I got booted. Thankfully, it's not permanent.

    Maybe I'll learn to love this community as well and keep returning to it after my vacation expires.  respekt





    The mp.net moderators are swimming in a sea of butthurt. Things are not going as they would wish.

    ahmedfire
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  ahmedfire on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:25 am

    Hisroyalhighness wrote:Not as significant as the deployment of the Abrams to the Baltics, but I digress usual saber-rattling.

    The 3 #Ukraine soldiers who tried to surrender got shot & killed by "national guard" 25m away from #NAF trenches #Debaltsevo
    https://twitter.com/Steiner1776/status/565556016453267457

    300 pilot is a big number i think, what US thinking on !

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  kvs on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:27 am

    Hisroyalhighness wrote:Here are some points to the Minsk deal:


    Why doesn't NATO provide details of these units? Russia should demand a full accounting of its alleged occupation
    forces from NATO.

    I am disliking Putin a lot right now. The KLA did not get any pressure to make a deal with Belgrade in 1999. Why are
    the Donbas rebels getting pressured by Russia to make concessions? NATO was the KLA's air force, but the Russian
    Army has not directly helped the rebels at all.

    Let the freaking haters in NATO bleat all they want. Russia should make their propaganda claims come true and send
    in a limited number, say 30,000 strong force to kick the regime forces half way to Kiev. Then we can have some ceasefire
    talks.

    NATO and its dogs in Kiev are not making any iron clad guarantees that civilians will not be shelled 24/7 as was the case
    during the last "ceasefire". So why make any deals at all until they are really hurting?

    Vann7
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:44 am

    The Rebels will not negotiate the borders they now control and their territory gained either.
    Poroshenko is not offering enough .. other than some kind of "autonomy" without any guarantee .
    And RUssia will never allow the right sector again to be close to Rostov so they continue shelling Russian
    cities.. So just relax and sit down.. Once the Rebels capture and control all devaltsevo and start moving to Slavyansk
    is when Poroshenko will negotiate for sure..

    So unless Europe convince Poroshenko for federalization eastern Ukraine with full autonomy and the right
    to carry weapons for its own defenses they will not capitulate. Putin is not a fool.. his is playing his cards right..
    The goal of Putin is the same of the Rebels.. what is different is the tactics.. Putin rightly believe delaying until Ukraine economy implode is the best way to force them to negotiate.. When they no longer have any money to pay the army.. is when the Ukraine army will switch sides and the flag of ukraine will be worth of nothing.. Money and food for your family have more weight than blind patriotism.

    In more news.. The DOnetsk republic have released their numbers at the losses of the Ukraine army.. since the new "offensive " began by Kiev to take the airport.

    Donetsk republic says more than 2,300 Ukrainian servicemen killed over past 25 days

    The Ukrainian army has also lost a combat helicopter, 179 tanks, 149 armored vehicles, 135 artillery weapons

    http://tass.ru/en/world/777039

    In my opinion Europe should intervene in Ukraine to fix it.. but undercover..
    and assassinate the potential leaders that could try to overthrow Poroshenko and after
    that declare Azov and Right sector terrorist organizations..

    Bribe the Rada pairlament for federalization of Ukraine.. and thats will be the end of the conflict.
    But moving beyond the borders of DOnetsk and Lugansk is very dangerous.. Civilians ethnic russians ,could be taken hostages ,tortured and killed in the thousands ,ethnic cleansing in retaliation of the rebels advance.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  ahmedfire on Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:01 am

    Vann7 wrote:The Rebels will not negotiate the borders they now control and their territory gained either.
    Poroshenko is not offering enough .. other than some kind of "autonomy" without any guarantee .
    And RUssia will never allow the right sector again to be close to Rostov so they continue shelling Russian
    cities.. So just relax and sit down.. Once the Rebels capture and control all devaltsevo and start moving to Slavyansk
    is when Poroshenko will negotiate for sure..

    So unless Europe convince Poroshenko for federalization eastern Ukraine with full autonomy and the right
    to carry weapons for its own defenses they will not capitulate. Putin is not a fool.. his is playing his cards right..
    The goal of Putin is the same of the Rebels.. what is different is the tactics.. Putin rightly believe delaying until Ukraine economy implode is the best way to force them to negotiate.. When they no longer have any money to pay the army.. is when the Ukraine army will switch sides and the flag of ukraine will be worth of nothing.. Money and food for your family have more weight than blind patriotism.

    In more news.. The DOnetsk republic have released their numbers at the losses of the Ukraine army.. since the new "offensive " began by Kiev to take the airport.

    Donetsk republic says more than 2,300 Ukrainian servicemen killed over past 25 days

    The Ukrainian army has also lost a combat helicopter, 179 tanks, 149 armored vehicles, 135 artillery weapons

    http://tass.ru/en/world/777039

    That's why US wants to arm Ukraine , the ques is what is Russia reaction if US did ?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  Hisroyalhighness on Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:29 am

    kvs wrote:
    The mp.net moderators are swimming in a sea of butthurt.   Things are not going as they would wish.
    Off Topic
    More like they are trying to keep the forum as civilized as possible due to this massive crisis. I don't blame them for banning me for a couple months, I was briefly a mod for a Enemy Territory clan forum and while fun, it was annoying trying to keep the idiots from tearing the forums apart; must be way harder for a military forum that focuses on current events.
    .......
    #Finnish #RedCross humanitarian cargo containing clothes had long been waiting to be sent to #Donbass, but #Kiev is blocking. #ATO
    https://twitter.com/sbobkov/status/565630841158918145

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:32 am

    More like they are trying to keep the forum as civilized as possible due to this massive crisis.

    Wrong, everything that does not shout Pro-USA gets banned, point out facts of Guantanamo being torture camp = ban, point out that US is an empire = ban.

    Shit place for nutheads that believe in actual conspiracy theories spewed by US propaganda of WMD's here and there, about Invasions of russia here in there and false flags MH-17. Another reason you get banned on mp.net which strictly prohibits to mention Tonkin False Flag and will be immidiatley banned if you dare to mention the US false flag on vietnam.

    BTW your signature is already violating forum rules.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:38 am

    Porkyshenko is already breaking his promise of giving 'special status' for Donbass, he's basically backtracking on agreeing to give them autonomy:

    Poroshenko refused Donbas in federalization and gosstatuse Russian language

    More from Porkyshenko:

    Poroshenko: "Galicians - are the foundation of Ukraine's statehood"



    Poroshenko: "Galicians - are the foundation of Ukraine's statehood"


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  higurashihougi on Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:58 am






    Hisroyalhighness
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  Hisroyalhighness on Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:09 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Porkyshenko is already breaking his promise of giving 'special status' for Donbass, he's basically backtracking on agreeing to give them autonomy:

    Poroshenko refused Donbas in federalization and gosstatuse Russian language

    More from Porkyshenko:

    Poroshenko: "Galicians - are the foundation of Ukraine's statehood"



    Poroshenko: "Galicians - are the foundation of Ukraine's statehood"

    It's amazing how utterly incompetent of a politician he is.

    The war is devastating Ukraine's economy, the public are becoming more outraged and less inclined to answer mobilization, the extreme nationalist militias are growing to be out of control, and thousands of Ukrainian servicemen are being sent home in coffins for a war that can halted through negotiations and autonomy.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  higurashihougi on Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:42 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:More from Porkyshenko:

    Poroshenko: "Galicians - are the foundation of Ukraine's statehood"



    Poroshenko: "Galicians - are the foundation of Ukraine's statehood"


    So there is only one thing to do. Create a Facist Stat of Ukraina with the capital is Lviv. And the region of Kyiv, Odessa, Kherson, Donetsk, Kharkiv,... will go back to Russia.

    If Porkie desire such Galician characteristic so much then we just grant him that.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  2SPOOKY4U on Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:11 am


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:21 am

    This peace will not hold, or the rebels will not follow through. What Ukraine demands is pretty much that gain back what they lost and wait till next time they are ready for another attack. Screw it. I think Putin's stance is right, give the benefit of the doubt, but the end game is in the rebels hands. Support the rebels how you can and wait and let watch. I doubt Russia would let Ukraine roll over, and even if they get US weapons, guaranteed Russia will just start handing over even more weapons and far more advanced too.

    I don't think the peace talk will actually amount to a cease fire.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:58 am

    Putin's Top Security Advisor: "Current US Approach Leads To Inevitable Confrontation With Russia And China"

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

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