Talking bollocks thread

I've read it in the original Russian, he talked about the higher cost of new Armata.
But if they don't sell them abroad for $, the plant & the gov. that owns it won't get any reimbursement, whatever the order costs r!
Foreign orders r badly needed to defray of the costs of R&D + production. They don't export much else besides oil & gas; but prices for those r not that great now!

China reportedly bought [only] 24 Su-35 fighter jets for US$2 billion ..in 2015, and Russia completed delivery of the planes by the end of last year. http://www.atimes.com/article/pla-scrambles-su-35s-j-20s-s-china-sea-us-navy-sails/

That's $83M,333,333.3333 per plane. They had to settle for that or it could be no deal at all; & India stopped buying Russian systems.

miketheterrible wrote:An armata tank is about $4M per tank. That was also considered as too much thus Russian MoD forced prices down.

No, Russians don't use USD in Russia or convert it daily, ignore militarovs trolling about it. All prices are in Rubles. So its rather meaningless to use it in USD terms.

Just validate it by how much Russia spends on jets or other equipment, and you will get an idea. Cost of a program is separate since mod funded it at first, unless it's MiG-35 or Su-35

Last contract of 48 Su-35's was roughly $27M per aircraft. In Rubles it was 60B roubles.

I spend 3 months every year, last 6 years in Russia. I live with Russian citizen 6 months a year. Closest to Russia you have been is Vodka shelf in local market. So excuse me.

Everyone keeps savings in USD there, Euro is almost unexisting except big banknotes in most banks and exchange offices, yet USD is widespread as it gets.

Stop calling everything you do not like trolling, makes you look retarded to say at least.

Tsavo Lion wrote:

KomissarBojanchev wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:Even if components & gear r being produced for the Lider, it doesn't mean they will be installed on it & not on other ships. So, to me at least, until its hull is under construction, the Lider isn't being built & remains a paper ship!
The Navy again turned out to be stepdaughter
The renewal of the naval staff of the Russian Navy is unacceptably slow
http://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2018-02-09/2_983_red.html

What and what does the russian army and air force have to show for snatching up the funds needed by the navy? Kurganets, Su-57, and Armata aren't coming earlier or in larger numbers.

The Ministry of Defense plans to purchase 200 tanks annually
http://www.ng.ru/news/607632.html?print=Y

The majority of the in-service tanks are of the T-72 and T-90 variants, including 564 modernised T-72B3 tanks (according to Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu), and 300 T-90 tanks. The modernised T-72B3 tanks are gradually replacing the other varieties, at a rate of 300 tanks per year. ..
The goal is to unify the types of tanks as much as possible in order to reduce maintenance costs. The modernisation of T-72 tanks costs 50 million rubles (962,000 dollars) each.
According to unofficial sources, the cost per [Armata] tank is approximately 400 million rubles [$6,853,518.16 US at today's rate], which is more than double that of the German Leopard-2 and about 60-75% higher than that of the French Leclerc and US M-1 Abrams. Yuri Borisov, the deputy defence minister responsible for procurement, has indicated that the cost is about 2.5 times higher [or $17,133,795.4] than stated in the State Armaments Programme.
As a result, the Defence Ministry is expecting to reduce the number of Armata tanks it will procure, focusing instead on continuing to modernise existing T-72 tanks in the medium term. According to Russian media reports, Uralvagonzavod has agreed to lower some Armata costs, but the programme will still be expensive.
https://russiamil.wordpress.com/2015/07/15/armata-russias-future-main-battle-tank/

Using the above figures, 200 x $17,133,795.4= $3B 426M 759, 080 per year, + 300/y x $962,000 mod. T-72B3 tanks= $288 600,000; Total:  $3B 715M 359,080 per year. If we include the year 2020, $3B 715M 359,080 x 3= $11B 146M 077, 240  That's a lot!

Pretty shit investment. T-72B3s only have kontakt 5 and are onsolete no matter how many fancy digital crap you put into them. IF this year they were gonna buy a 100 T-90 proryvs with 2A82 guns and relikt armor then we'd be talking.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:

KomissarBojanchev wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:Even if components & gear r being produced for the Lider, it doesn't mean they will be installed on it & not on other ships. So, to me at least, until its hull is under construction, the Lider isn't being built & remains a paper ship!
The Navy again turned out to be stepdaughter
The renewal of the naval staff of the Russian Navy is unacceptably slow
http://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2018-02-09/2_983_red.html

What and what does the russian army and air force have to show for snatching up the funds needed by the navy? Kurganets, Su-57, and Armata aren't coming earlier or in larger numbers.

The Ministry of Defense plans to purchase 200 tanks annually
http://www.ng.ru/news/607632.html?print=Y

The majority of the in-service tanks are of the T-72 and T-90 variants, including 564 modernised T-72B3 tanks (according to Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu), and 300 T-90 tanks. The modernised T-72B3 tanks are gradually replacing the other varieties, at a rate of 300 tanks per year. ..
The goal is to unify the types of tanks as much as possible in order to reduce maintenance costs. The modernisation of T-72 tanks costs 50 million rubles (962,000 dollars) each.
According to unofficial sources, the cost per [Armata] tank is approximately 400 million rubles [$6,853,518.16 US at today's rate], which is more than double that of the German Leopard-2 and about 60-75% higher than that of the French Leclerc and US M-1 Abrams. Yuri Borisov, the deputy defence minister responsible for procurement, has indicated that the cost is about 2.5 times higher [or $17,133,795.4] than stated in the State Armaments Programme.
As a result, the Defence Ministry is expecting to reduce the number of Armata tanks it will procure, focusing instead on continuing to modernise existing T-72 tanks in the medium term. According to Russian media reports, Uralvagonzavod has agreed to lower some Armata costs, but the programme will still be expensive.
https://russiamil.wordpress.com/2015/07/15/armata-russias-future-main-battle-tank/

Using the above figures, 200 x $17,133,795.4= $3B 426M 759, 080 per year, + 300/y x $962,000 mod. T-72B3 tanks= $288 600,000; Total:  $3B 715M 359,080 per year. If we include the year 2020, $3B 715M 359,080 x 3= $11B 146M 077, 240  That's a lot!

Pretty shit investment. T-72B3s only have kontakt 5 and are onsolete no matter how many fancy digital crap you put into them. IF this year they were gonna buy a 100 T-90 proryvs with 2A82 guns and relikt armor then we'd be talking.

Please, for the sake of the rest of our intelligence, please stop posting. Just lurk.

PapaDragon wrote:]
Look, as much as hate to admit my fuckups I gotta say that there might be something in those Lider construction news.

Recently they started massive overhaul of Sevmash shipyard, here is photo:

https://sdelanounas.ru/i/y/i/5/Yi5yYWRpa2FsLnJ1L2IyNi8xODAxL2EyL2UwODEyMzNlYzdjNy5qcGc_X19pZD0xMDMwMDQ=.jpg


And even weirder is that they filmed this massive ship section being built there while making documentary the other day, you can clearly see it on this video in the background at 0:42 seconds​:

Dont worry we all know about your opinions wrt Lider





But form sometime MoD was saying: first hello carriers/LHDs then Liders. So looks like after 2025 Lider bookmark will be  laid at earliest.

Kimppis wrote:

And it seems to me that you don't understand RuAF either. Not realizing that the procurement of current aircraft (Su-35, Su-34, Su-30SM) is going to remain roughly the same until the mid-20s. You seemed to think that Su-57 is going to just replace all/most of them in production by 2020, or something, which is obviously not the case. The maximum annual order of Su-57 is around 10-12 planes, it obviously can't be faster than the current pace of Su-35 procurement.

What again is quite logical: upgrading production capabilities if you dont expect a massive war is also helluva expensive. 10-18 planes per year seem to be realistic for Su-57. Unless there will be export contract of course.

discussion with insulting comments continue here

Militarov wrote:

eehnie wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Vann7 wrote:.......... Because now Russia can use this very same propaganda or parts of it..   To justify the shot down of US coalition planes  ......

Seriously?

Ever heard of this concept called 'reality'?

Israeli aircrafts do not count as US coalition planes?

The Russian/Syrian Joint Air Defense Command did not it just after the attack?

Israel is not part of Coalitions operation.

This was not the question.

So people, the correct way to reply is to copy only the text you are replying to... ie for Militarov above you should have just posted this:

Israeli aircrafts do not count as US coalition planes?

The Russian/Syrian Joint Air Defense Command did not it just after the attack?

And then put your reply here.

Eehnie should have responded by copying the reply from Militarov:

Israel is not part of Coalitions operation.

and then typed his response here... there is no need to repeat everything.

If you insist on using the quote button to reply to a post then delete the other quotes first so that all that is left is what you are replying to and an end quote in square brackets and an open quote in square brackets and the name of the person who made that statement.

PapaDragon wrote:

onwiththewar wrote:The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation (google translate):
.....................
http://www.mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/3086874

Several dozens wounded matches with the story where there were 14 who lost their lives.

Moral of the story: Don't be an idiot. Or at least pick up the phone before doing something stupid on your own next time.

The only idiot here is you.. with your blowjob to Putin..

All operations in Syria of Private military contractors are coordinated with the Russia Minister of defense..
It will be incredibly FOOLISH to not provide weapons and technology and satellite data to them... and not take advantage of their major help with boots on the ground. On top that the Russia military ,needs to know at all times
their locations ,so they are not bombed by their own forces.. Russia military was responsible for their protection..
in same way they are for every pilot and special forces on the ground , providing intelligence .

In other words.. this was a major fuck in the ass to your Putin lover. and a major humiliating event for Russia.. their private military contractors were killed. several dozens of them.. and Russia military did nothing to help them..  which ever way you see this.. there is no way in hell ,you can  blame the russian citizens , former military from Russia armed forced for being killed in Syria ,consequences of their Government President Putin ,your lover ,being incredibly weak and insecure with Americans.

There could have been a million things to save their military lives. like flying with planes over their zone
as deterrence to US airforce.. but looks like Putin was busy celebrating the hockey victory of Russia team
in korea winter olympics.  The message that the world weakest leader.. Putin is sending the world.. is that
is ok to bomb in Syria for NATO or any other in any part they want.. because Russia will do nothing about it..
it will look to the other side ,even if Russian soldiers or Russian citizens paramilitary groups are killed.  and
will only observe how the Russian private military contractors are destroyed in Syria and Russia will sacrifice
them all the time ,In order to not have to face their "American parters"..

Vann7 wrote:

The only idiot here is you.. with your blowjob to Putin..

I thought that insults like that could get you a holiday nowadays.

JohninMK wrote:I thought that insults like that could get you a holiday nowadays.

You have your own collection of insults far worse than this...

GarryB wrote:Eehnie should have responded by copying the reply from Militarov:

...

If you insist on using the quote button to reply to a post then delete the other quotes first so that all that is left is what you are replying to and an end quote in square brackets and an open quote in square brackets and the name of the person who made that statement.

Just the previous comment to my answer was also in the same situation. Not sure why the mention to me.

I hope you miss not the following comments and many others before that have not quoted properly according to your example:

https://www.russiadefence.net/t7187p100-syrian-civil-war-news-17#216809
https://www.russiadefence.net/t5452p125-project-20836-corvette-frigate#216744
https://www.russiadefence.net/t3916p50-forum-non-technical-issues#216740
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7040p750-russian-military-involvement-and-aid-to-syria-12#216553 (lack of quote signs to the words extracted of the "source")

https://www.russiadefence.net/t7187p125-syrian-civil-war-news-17#216957 (to note that this user many times include not the link to his "sources" and habitually include not the quote model for the text extracted from his "sources")
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7040p775-russian-military-involvement-and-aid-to-syria-12#216883
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7187p100-syrian-civil-war-news-17#216924
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7040p775-russian-military-involvement-and-aid-to-syria-12#216881

https://www.russiadefence.net/t7040p775-russian-military-involvement-and-aid-to-syria-12#216896 (to note that these are the last four messages of this user that habitually uses wall texts of multiple quotes)
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7040p775-russian-military-involvement-and-aid-to-syria-12#216806
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7040p775-russian-military-involvement-and-aid-to-syria-12#216805
https://www.russiadefence.net/t2496p100-1999-nato-bombing-of-yugoslavia#216762

https://www.russiadefence.net/t6625p225-project-949a-oscar-ii#216367
https://www.russiadefence.net/t6625p225-project-949a-oscar-ii#216344
https://www.russiadefence.net/t1791p200-the-t-80s-future-in-the-russian-army#216328
https://www.russiadefence.net/t6625p225-project-949a-oscar-ii#216316

Thank you.

PS: Update of this comment continues.

PapaDragon wrote:Dropped your load too soon there my Spanish friend, you can't cut that text because it's an image segment.

Try harder.

You have a double quote that agrees not with the procedure indicated by GarryB.

Vann7 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

onwiththewar wrote:The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation (google translate):
.....................
http://www.mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/3086874

Several dozens wounded matches with the story where there were 14 who lost their lives.

Moral of the story: Don't be an idiot. Or at least pick up the phone before doing something stupid on your own next time.

The only idiot here is you.. with your blowjob to Putin..

All operations in Syria of Private military contractors are coordinated with the Russia Minister of defense..
It will be incredibly FOOLISH to not provide weapons and technology and satellite data to them... and not take advantage of their major help with boots on the ground. On top that the Russia military ,needs to know at all times
their locations ,so they are not bombed by their own forces.. Russia military was responsible for their protection..
in same way they are for every pilot and special forces on the ground , providing intelligence .

In other words.. this was a major fuck in the ass to your Putin lover. and a major humiliating event for Russia.. their private military contractors were killed. several dozens of them.. and Russia military did nothing to help them..  which ever way you see this.. there is no way in hell ,you can  blame the russian citizens , former military from Russia armed forced for being killed in Syria ,consequences of their Government President Putin ,your lover ,being incredibly weak and insecure with Americans.

There could have been a million things to save their military lives. like flying with planes over their zone
as deterrence to US airforce.. but looks like Putin was busy celebrating the hockey victory of Russia team
in korea winter olympics.  The message that the world weakest leader.. Putin is sending the world.. is that
is ok to bomb in Syria for NATO or any other in any part they want.. because Russia will do nothing about it..
it will look to the other side ,even if Russian soldiers or Russian citizens paramilitary groups are killed.  and
will only observe how the Russian private military contractors are destroyed in Syria and Russia will sacrifice
them all the time ,In order to not have to face their "American parters"..  

Although there is more nuisance to this story and I wouldn't use certain terms... I agree with this in a way - its essence.

eehnie wrote:

Just the previous comment to my answer was also in the same situation. Not sure why the mention to me.

I hope you miss not the following comments and many others before that have not quoted properly according to your example:

https://www.russiadefence.net/t7187p100-syrian-civil-war-news-17#216809
https://www.russiadefence.net/t5452p125-project-20836-corvette-frigate#216744
https://www.russiadefence.net/t3916p50-forum-non-technical-issues#216740
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7040p750-russian-military-involvement-and-aid-to-syria-12#216553 (lack of quote signs to the words extracted of the "source")

https://www.russiadefence.net/t7187p125-syrian-civil-war-news-17#216957 (to note that this user many times include not the link to his "sources" and habitually include not the quote model for the text extracted from his "sources")
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7040p775-russian-military-involvement-and-aid-to-syria-12#216883
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7187p100-syrian-civil-war-news-17#216924
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7040p775-russian-military-involvement-and-aid-to-syria-12#216881

https://www.russiadefence.net/t7040p775-russian-military-involvement-and-aid-to-syria-12#216896 (to note that these are the last four messages of this user that habitually uses wall texts of multiple quotes)
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7040p775-russian-military-involvement-and-aid-to-syria-12#216806
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7040p775-russian-military-involvement-and-aid-to-syria-12#216805
https://www.russiadefence.net/t2496p100-1999-nato-bombing-of-yugoslavia#216762

https://www.russiadefence.net/t6625p225-project-949a-oscar-ii#216367
https://www.russiadefence.net/t6625p225-project-949a-oscar-ii#216344
https://www.russiadefence.net/t1791p200-the-t-80s-future-in-the-russian-army#216328
https://www.russiadefence.net/t6625p225-project-949a-oscar-ii#216316

----------------------

Also I propose that the Twitter to be included in this rule because of the very very very low quality of Twitter "sources":

14] Do note quote wiki, debka or strategy page, find a better source

----------------------

Finnally, I expect the Moderators analyze the signature of Papadragon.

I think can be breaking the following rules:

2] No spamming or trolling
7] Do not disrespect members, do not attack the messenger, attack the message
8] Do not disrespect RDF staff or the forum itself.
11] Do not post outside sources in other languages without English translation.
16] Stay on topic

His signature covers half of the screen in every message he writes. I consider it spamming.

Also not sure in which rule would be, but there is a quote of a fascist dictator that includes a fascist salute, that is the Spanish version of the Hail Hittler, and was used the same way. I expect this to be reviewed, because of this in addition to by disrespecting, with the fascist salute clearly used to insult other members, by trolling and by quoting in other languages without English translation in every message he writes.

Thank you.

PS: Update of this comment continues.

Compared to some of your sources Debka file and Wikipedia sound like someones PhD thesis.

Bulk transfer of posts to Talking Bollocks thread coming up in 1-2-3.

JohninMK wrote:Bulk transfer of posts to Talking Bollocks thread coming up in 1-2-3.

Bloggers Olympics

Bitch the loudest = Bronze Medal

Bitch the longest = Silver Medal

Biggest bitch = Gold Medal

Remember the old good times when i was blamed for everything in this forum. Oh well...

Qalaat Al Mudiq
‏ @QalaatAlMudiq
2h2 hours ago

#AfrinOp: today #OliveBranch forces linked up the 2 pockets on W. side & made further advance S. of #Jindires.

JohninMK wrote:
Qalaat Al Mudiq
‏ @QalaatAlMudiq
2h2 hours ago

#AfrinOp: today #OliveBranch forces linked up the 2 pockets on W. side & made further advance S. of #Jindires.

Is this of your own or is from other source?

eehnie wrote:
Is this of your own or is from other source?

Thanks for the complement of thinking I could have created it but no, I can't understand Arabic script and don't have a real knowledge of where villages are in Afrin.

It may well have been created by the person whose Twitter account I got it from, Qalaat Al Mudiq as per the others recently, named above.

But it might have been this guy

Zeytin Dalı Harekatı‏ @zeytindali_sy

#الجيش_السوري_الحر
#غصن_الزيتون
خريطة تظهر تقدم قوات الجيش السوري الحر وتحرير قرى على محاور شران وراجو جنديرس بعد دحر ميليشيات PYD/PKK

JohninMK wrote:It may well have been created by the person whose Twitter account I got it from, Qalaat Al Mudiq as per the others recently, named above.

But it might have been this guy

Zeytin Dalı Harekatı‏ @zeytindali_sy

#الجيش_السوري_الحر
#غصن_الزيتون
خريطة تظهر تقدم قوات الجيش السوري الحر وتحرير قرى على محاور شران وراجو جنديرس بعد دحر ميليشيات PYD/PKK

It would be better then if you quote properly. It is confusing. You mix your own words with other that are not from you. Is this quoting way (even without links) in agreement with the rules?

Also to remember that you asked for banning people that posted non English messages without translation.

Finally, the source seems of very poor quality, like Twitter sources in overall terms.