Turkey relations with US and NATO

KKTC wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

KKTC wrote:We all know military coup attempt in Turkey and we all know US goverment did the attempt

And what you guys thinking about Nato and Turkey ?

Im from turkey and i think US is not friend of turkey

No that wont happen, Erdogun is playing a double game here, right now he's playing of both sides to get what he wants, but he wont go so far as to leave NATO because that prevents other NATO members from confronting him, after all NATO needs to maintain the delusion that they're some sort of unified force, in short, if the U.S were to attack Turkey then NATO would cease to exist.

İf turkey out nato there will be only usa left
And i think we out nato and play with russia because turkey only trust russia we see all eu and nato countrys after the coup attempt and russia
well russia and turkey need eacother than the other countrys in eu we are neighbours we are going to russia to study or visit they come to turkey and we need eachother and peace for russia and turkey

Turkey trust no one not even itself, and Russia doesn't need Turkey, they just want relations good if/when possible.

AlfaT8 wrote:

KKTC wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

KKTC wrote:We all know military coup attempt in Turkey and we all know US goverment did the attempt

And what you guys thinking about Nato and Turkey ?

Im from turkey and i think US is not friend of turkey

No that wont happen, Erdogun is playing a double game here, right now he's playing of both sides to get what he wants, but he wont go so far as to leave NATO because that prevents other NATO members from confronting him, after all NATO needs to maintain the delusion that they're some sort of unified force, in short, if the U.S were to attack Turkey then NATO would cease to exist.

İf turkey out nato there will be only usa left
And i think we out nato and play with russia because turkey only trust russia we see all eu and nato countrys after the coup attempt and russia
well russia and turkey need eacother than the other countrys in eu we are neighbours we are going to russia to study or visit they come to turkey and we need eachother and peace for russia and turkey

Turkey trust no one not even itself, and Russia doesn't need Turkey, they just want relations good if/when possible.

The best for the Turkey is make a turan union all turkic countries but all of them except azerbaican cooperating with russia and all of them using russian systems
İf they cooperate with us they can use turkish military systems weapons aircrafts...... But if they happens its bad for russia

GarryB wrote:Good relations between Russia and Turkey is good for Russia and good for Turkey.

Good relations with the US is usually only good for the US first and sometimes good for those that give up everything to be friends with the US.

Ye right USA is the worst country ever.

Weak Turkey is good for Russia, because when Turkey can they begin to look forward with expansive ambitions.

Take into account the intention with the Turkic union. It is to expand their own military material,... their own influence.

14 October 2016 19:05

Russia 'May Consider' Giving Air Defense Systems to Turkey

The Kremlin has said Friday it "may consider" supplying Turkey with air defense systems in a further warming of ties after a feud over the downing of a Russian jet last year.

President Vladimir Putin and Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan held talks in Istanbul on Monday in which the prospect of supplying Ankara with air defence systems was brought up, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told Russian news agencies; AFP reported.

"Various missile defence systems were mentioned and if the Turkish side so desires, Russia may consider the possibility of supplying Turkey in various ways," Peskov was quoted as saying.

Turkey's private NTV channel, citing Turkish foreign ministry sources, said earlier this week that Ankara was ready to accept an offer from Russia for a Turkish tender to build long-range air defence systems.

Turkish officials, contacted by AFP, said they had no information about any development.

Putin's visit to Turkey -- his first since the November 2015 downing of a Russian war plane by Ankara sparked the worst dispute between the countries since the Cold War -- saw each side pledge to step up cooperation in all areas including defence and technology.

The Kremlin strongman on Monday hinted that concrete measures would be taken to reinforce defence ties with Ankara.

"We are ready to continue this (military-technical) cooperation and boost it with serious projects of mutual interest," Putin said.

"Proposals from both sides are being studied, and I am certain they have all the grounds to be carried out."

Ankara last year cancelled a preliminary deal on air defence systems with China amid concerns from its NATO partners.
At the time, Turkish officials said Ankara had instead an ambitious plan to build a Turkish-made missile defence system.

Despite the warming ties, Moscow and Ankara remain far apart on the conflict in Syria, with Russia supporting leader Bashar al-Assad and Turkey wanting him out.


218-11

Turkey left US influence in the 2000s. All is left to kick American''s out of the İncirlik airbase, shut off kürecik radar base, give their Nukes back.

Maybe the faces say it all

Germany will consider the issue of continuing the supply of arms to Turkey

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2749129.html

The US Department of Defense spokesperson says Washington is displeased with Ankara’s decision to buy Russian S-400 missile systems

More:
http://tass.com/defense/965297

U.S. Senator Says Turkey May Face Sanctions Over Weapons Deal With Russia



September 15, 2017 10:09 GMT  

A leading Democrat on the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations committee says Turkey’s recent purchase of antiaircraft missile systems from Russia may have violated a U.S. law that requires automatic sanctions to be imposed against Ankara.

Senator Ben Cardin issued the warning on September 14 in a letter to the administration of President Donald Trump.

The letter says Ankara’s purchase of Russian S-400 surface-to-air missiles, which was finalized on September 12, violates U.S. congressional sanctions against Russia that were signed into law in August.


Cardin wrote: “As a U.S. ally, it is unfortunate that Turkey has appeared to align itself with Moscow during this critical time.”

https://www.rferl.org/a/turkey-russia-s400-missile-system-sanctions-erdogan-nato/28737375.html

Turkish Airlines to buy 40 Boeing 787 Dreamliner jets

If Russia gives to Turkey the S-400, the following day is in the hand of the US.

Turkey may close Incirlik Air Base for US

9 October 2017 14:49 (UTC+04:00)


Baku, Azerbaijan, Oct. 9

By Rufiz Hafizoglu – Trend:

Turkey may close the Incirlik Air Base for the US Air Force, Turkish media outlets reported Oct. 9.

The air base may be closed because on Oct. 8, the US suspended issuance of non-immigrant visas to Turkish citizens, according to the report.

Non-immigrant visas are issued to all those travelling to the US for tourism, medical treatment, business, temporary work or study. Immigrant visa services are only for those seeking to live in the US permanently.

The US suspended issuance of non-immigrant visas to Turkish citizens due to the arrest of an employee of the US Consulate General in Istanbul, the report said.

The Turkish authorities, commenting on the arrest of the employee, noted that he had links with the movement of Fethullah Gulen, who is accused of being involved in a military coup attempt in Turkey in 2016.

Turkey, in turn, also suspended the issuance of visas to US citizens.
https://en.trend.az/world/turkey/2805482.html

GarryB wrote:The S-400 Turkey will get will tell them nothing about the S-400 in Russian service.

Might give them a hint about the Chinese or Indian systems but will also reveal the secrets of the new Turkish system... which is why I suspect they wont give away too much...  especially when the US applies sanctions to Turkey for buying it...

Would be funny if Erdogan kicks the US nukes out of turkey in response to US sanctions....  

It's more probable to see US attacking turkey's S-400 than russian's S-400. And knowing there is a big diference between the two versions, if turkey give infos about s-400 it will be usefull only against them. They are not stupid. They said s-400 is for turkey's army and not for NATO. They are right to have something like that. Nato did not found an issue to the turko-greece tensions. They only stoped them doing the war which will start again when nato is no more.

I don't really see how Turkey can survive US sanctions if they go Iranian style. No European bank will touch them and they would be left to rely on China, which they have already begged and received $3.6 billion in loans for the power sector which they have no prayer of paying back. It looks like Turkey is headed down the same path as Venezuela and Turks don't have oil.

Vladimir79 wrote:I don't really see how Turkey can survive US sanctions if they go Iranian style.  No European bank will touch them and they would be left to rely on China, which they have already begged and received $3.6 billion in loans for the power sector which they have no prayer of paying back.  It looks like Turkey is headed down the same path as Venezuela and Turks don't have oil.  

Very simplistic way of looking at things.

First off, world economy doesn't mean that if you have no oil, you cant survive. Second, you don't need US or EU to survive. Turkey is one of those nations that rely heavily on domestic consumption as well as self employment. While there are going to be issues, in the end, doesn't mean they wont have a market at all. Asia is the future, regardless what you or others may think.

And yes, they can switch to China. On Chinese terms of course. But it was no different than on US or EU terms.

miketheterrible wrote:

Very simplistic way of looking at things.

First off, world economy doesn't mean that if you have no oil, you cant survive.  Second, you don't need US or EU to survive.  Turkey is one of those nations that rely heavily on domestic consumption as well as self employment.  While there are going to be issues, in the end, doesn't mean they wont have a market at all.  Asia is the future, regardless what you or others may think.

And yes, they can switch to China.  On Chinese terms of course.  But it was no different than on US or EU terms.

Turkey needs foreign capital if they want to continue growing, it is the only way to balance their capital accounts deficit.  The Turkish farmer is heavily subsidised because they can't compete with import prices and even then their agricultural production has collapsed.  Produce is left rotting in the fields because they can't sell it at the prices they need to get for it.  It is foreign investment that has led the Turkish economy out of their last economic crisis and they have grown addicted to it.  With this unstable regime that money is drying up.  The fact that they rely on consumption is another negative to the economy as they are reliant on importing goods more than they export also exacerbating the current accounts deficit.  If Turkey had oil they would have more than enough revenue to close their current accounts deficit, but alas they do not.

They can borrow money from China but it doesn't do anything to fix their deficits, it is just trading one lender for another who still expects to be repaid. It is not like they can trade oil for cash like Venezuela.

Then they will have to learn to adapt. Consumption based nations survive entirely upon self sufficiency in producing what's needed for their citizens, and then slowly add inflation to increase money supply. England did just that well over 2 decades ago. It's up to the state also to invest, something Russia could have done long ago but relied upon foreigners for investing in themselves.

Nations survived as Autarkys before, doesn't mean it can't be done now.

Subsidies suck as it just makes people dependent. Good as a starter to get off the ground, but after that, no.

Turkey has various countries to work with - Iran, Caucases countries, Asian, etc. But you are right, major issue is their efficiency and costs.

But nations like India and USA rarely if ever had a positive account balance, ever.

miketheterrible wrote:Then they will have to learn to adapt. Consumption based nations survive entirely upon self sufficiency in producing what's needed for their citizens, and then slowly add inflation to increase money supply. England did just that well over 2 decades ago.  It's up to the state also to invest, something Russia could have done long ago but relied upon foreigners for investing in themselves.

Nations survived as Autarkys before, doesn't mean it can't be done now.

Subsidies suck as it just makes people dependent. Good as a starter to get off the ground, but after that, no.

Turkey has various countries to work with - Iran, Caucases countries, Asian, etc. But you are right, major issue is their efficiency and costs.

But nations like India and USA rarely if ever had a positive account balance, ever.

Consumption based economies rely on credit, not self sufficiency. As long as they can get what they need from someone else and sell something of equal value to another, they can maintain their current accounts. The US current account runs around a 2% deficit which is about as fast as their national debt grows. They have avoided collapse by maintaining nominal economic growth which dilutes the negative effects of their deficit, that and they are the world's reserve currency. At some point they will have to close their account deficit which is something their president is striving hard to do. The Turkish current accounts deficit is over 6% and they are no reserve currency so you are seeing a sell off. The inflation rate in Turkey is starting to get out of control, they report 15% but independent analysis indicates closer to 25%. Developed countries want a slow and steady inflation rate so their producer prices can see a steady rise for them to make a profit. If it goes into deflation the producers are losing money but the consumers are getting more for less.

We had state led investment, that is called central planning and it is an inefficient use of capital. Only in the case of strategic areas does the state need to decide that. The markets are far more efficient at determining where capital allocation needs to take place and letting the system flush out the failures instead of propping up zombie companies. This is another area the Turkish state is failing as they confiscate private assets for their alleged links to the Gulen movement and start nationalising the banking system. Over 50% of GDP is tied up in foreign loans that need to be repaid in a failing currency, their entire economy is at risk if they can't get these loans paid off. We are able to shrug off most of the negative side effects because we export huge amounts of fossil fuels and raw materials that easily pay for our imports, Turkey has no such luxury.