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TMA1Erdogan is the ultimate fence sitter. He is walking a dangerous line as that can lead to all parties eventually dumping you.
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53 posters
Turkey relations with US and NATO
Poll
Are they leaving the US' influence?
- [ 9 ]
[29%]
- [ 5 ]
- [16%]
- [ 13 ]
- [42%]
- [ 4 ]
- [13%]
Total Votes: 31
TMA1- Posts : 1128
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GarryB likes this post
GarryB- Posts : 39018
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He is trying to be the peace maker.... like the French with the Georgian conflict for example, so he is not being pro US at all.... his distance from the US would get respect and cooperation from Russia and his cooperation and trade with ukraine will get cooperation from them too I suspect.
andalusia- Posts : 728
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Tensions between Turkey and Greece are heating up:
billybatts91- Posts : 663
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GarryB likes this post
mnztr- Posts : 2776
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billybatts91 wrote:
Wasn't the condition that Turkey gets accepted into EU?
Godric likes this post
billybatts91- Posts : 663
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mnztr wrote:billybatts91 wrote:
Wasn't the condition that Turkey gets accepted into EU?
Seems a deal was made then?
billybatts91- Posts : 663
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franco- Posts : 6710
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billybatts91 wrote:mnztr wrote:billybatts91 wrote:
Wasn't the condition that Turkey gets accepted into EU?
Seems a deal was made then?
The West is good at making deals then not delivering on them so time will tell.
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Kiko- Posts : 2842
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Most probably the problem with Recep Tayyip are the yanqui nukes stationed at Incirlik, so from now on masks are off. Reaction should be in Syria.
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billybatts91- Posts : 663
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Here’s one of the reasons that explains Turkey’s recent behavior…
mnztr- Posts : 2776
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billybatts91 wrote:Here’s one of the reasons that explains Turkey’s recent behavior…
So they agreed to give Turkey F-16 upgrades from the F-35 money their stole. And make an empty statement that the EU is free to ignore.
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Dr.Snufflebug- Posts : 1117
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Sweden has been a NATO country since the 1950s in all but name. Officially including it is merely a formality.
Yes, it did claim to adhere to the principle of "freedom of alliance" during the Cold War. Some kind of alleged neutrality. But that was never the case.
Hell, the U.S. kindly requested Sweden to send its airmen to die on spying missions vs the USSR from the late 1940s and onwards. Sweden happily obliged.
So, merely a formality. That its own population was led to believe otherwise is a whole other story.
Yes, it did claim to adhere to the principle of "freedom of alliance" during the Cold War. Some kind of alleged neutrality. But that was never the case.
Hell, the U.S. kindly requested Sweden to send its airmen to die on spying missions vs the USSR from the late 1940s and onwards. Sweden happily obliged.
So, merely a formality. That its own population was led to believe otherwise is a whole other story.
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lancelot- Posts : 2700
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This will eventually lead to the further implosion of the Swedish defense industry.
I expect the Gripen NG to be the last fighter Sweden will produce. If even that gets produced in significant numbers.
They already closed down the engine production facilities which were used to put together the RM12 engine for example.
I also expect their submarine program to be axed.
Their MIC will be a pale memory of what it used to be.
I expect the Gripen NG to be the last fighter Sweden will produce. If even that gets produced in significant numbers.
They already closed down the engine production facilities which were used to put together the RM12 engine for example.
I also expect their submarine program to be axed.
Their MIC will be a pale memory of what it used to be.
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sepheronx- Posts : 8539
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All of the nato and EU countries become the same - debt slaves with zero autonomy.
Turkey proved they are useless idiots. Erdogan thinks he can have it all and with Putin at the helm, that may be true. Putin won't last forever and the next guy may be sick of Erdogans shit. Because it seems the Duma and somewhat of the security apparatus is sick of the Turks.
Turkey proved they are useless idiots. Erdogan thinks he can have it all and with Putin at the helm, that may be true. Putin won't last forever and the next guy may be sick of Erdogans shit. Because it seems the Duma and somewhat of the security apparatus is sick of the Turks.
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billybatts91- Posts : 663
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GarryB- Posts : 39018
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It is definitely approaching genocidal proportions, but that is not Russia's doing, that seems to be part of some other plan. "Ukrainians are expendable" to the Pentagon, if SOME Russians die, it's worth all the Ukrainians we can find. The real "genocide" is to a hundred percent the work of the people attending the Vilnius summit.
Maybe that is the secret... they figure the Soviet holomodor needs a modern equivalent they can pin on the Russians alone so they are keeping quiet and eventually they will release the real figures of what those evil Russians have been doing slaughtering the brightest and the best of Ukrainian manhood... (the rich and powerful have left of course and those with any power are in logistics well behind the front lines...).
Poland and the Polish people today are feverent supporters of Neonazi Ukraine so that massacre couldn't have been all that bad in the end.
The problem I would think is that it was the nazi poles and nazi Orcs that were doing the killing and the killing was obviously rather one sided so as they killed people the number or ratio of nazis increased, so it is the opposite of a good thing sadly.
No, the systematic destruction of Ukrainians (genocide) is being led by Kiev and its western backers. The former are merely useful idiots, the latter know what they're doing.
As far as the western backers are concerned they are all Russians or half Russians so the more death and destruction the better...
Seems a deal was made then?
Sweden is part of HATO in all but name... all they are waiting for is the badge.
Wont strengthen HATO and when Sweden goes back to supporting Kurdish separatists Turkey is going to feel double crossed...
Here’s one of the reasons that explains Turkey’s recent behavior…
Hahahahaha... yeah, because the only thing preventing Turkey from joining the EU was lack of US support.....
Fucking hilarious...
Turkey proved they are useless idiots. Erdogan thinks he can have it all and with Putin at the helm, that may be true. Putin won't last forever and the next guy may be sick of Erdogans shit. Because it seems the Duma and somewhat of the security apparatus is sick of the Turks.
Erdogan is still a useful person to Russia, but if he crosses the line too much it is very easy to punish him now... stop the Turk stream deals... and cut tourism... will cost them billions... but that is likely to hand the US their S-400 systems if you want to play such stupid games.
But those are export models so they will only improve their own Patriot massively with access to export model S-400s.
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billybatts91- Posts : 663
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If Europe and America embrace Turkey, this could be it for Russia’s once “great” relationship with this two-faced country that Putin thought he had. Never understood why Putin and co. ever kissed their asses to begin with, especially after that ambassador got assassinated there, the jet downing, their anti-Assad measures during the Syrian war, supporting Ukraine right away with weapons and now the Azov release, will support Ukraine with grain shipments (ignoring Russia), and full support for NATO expansion, even for Ukraine…Unreal…Anyone think Putin will smarten up when dealing with these roaches? Or will they keep enjoying vacations there and ignore reality? So weak…
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sepheronx- Posts : 8539
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They had access to not so export variant of S-300V and S-300PMU2 yet they (USA) still couldn't come out with a half decent air defense system. I honestly think that they just dont have the skilled workers to be able to do the job and a or lack the proper manufacturing capabilities since a lot of their development is a mix mash of systems from various countries to come up with their systems.
Turkey has pushed their luck beyond what is acceptable in my opinion. And reading around it feels that most Russians are rather super pissed about it, including those much higher up and near Putin. But it is the same individual who makes a lot of excuses for Turkey - Peskov. I remember how much hate Peskov gets, the Duran guys rather hate the guy as well. I honestly don't think Peskov can say beyond what he is allowed to and I think the only thing keeping the rest at bay from wanting to pretty much crush Turkeys economy, turning off the gas, stopping any further work on the nuclear plant (if there is much left to do) and then demanding Turkey pay up debt they occurred, is Putin himself.
There really isn't much Turkey can provide or is worth risking everything over. Turkey already has broken dozens of agreements with Russia. Continues to contradict itself and do things that clearly doesn't show much care or support for Russia like they claim. Clearly is involved in the Ukraine conflict by providing weapons that kills Russians to Ukraine. Honestly, there isn't much left Turkey can provide and that Russia shouldn't reconsider its efforts on Turkey. Instead, this is an incentive to stick it to the Turks and then let them feel the pain for their actions and then really let the Turks eat Erdogan alive. It may even cause the Turks to lash out and do something real stupid that gives Russia and possibly others to really screw with Turkey.
Turkey has pushed their luck beyond what is acceptable in my opinion. And reading around it feels that most Russians are rather super pissed about it, including those much higher up and near Putin. But it is the same individual who makes a lot of excuses for Turkey - Peskov. I remember how much hate Peskov gets, the Duran guys rather hate the guy as well. I honestly don't think Peskov can say beyond what he is allowed to and I think the only thing keeping the rest at bay from wanting to pretty much crush Turkeys economy, turning off the gas, stopping any further work on the nuclear plant (if there is much left to do) and then demanding Turkey pay up debt they occurred, is Putin himself.
There really isn't much Turkey can provide or is worth risking everything over. Turkey already has broken dozens of agreements with Russia. Continues to contradict itself and do things that clearly doesn't show much care or support for Russia like they claim. Clearly is involved in the Ukraine conflict by providing weapons that kills Russians to Ukraine. Honestly, there isn't much left Turkey can provide and that Russia shouldn't reconsider its efforts on Turkey. Instead, this is an incentive to stick it to the Turks and then let them feel the pain for their actions and then really let the Turks eat Erdogan alive. It may even cause the Turks to lash out and do something real stupid that gives Russia and possibly others to really screw with Turkey.
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billybatts91- Posts : 663
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Even Africans pushing their weight, showing little respect to Putin and Russia’s interests in this conflict. These dudes just care about themselves and so their countries don’t starve to death. They gladly take their former colonizers position smh…embarrassing…Why even invite these clowns to Moscow?
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TMA1- Posts : 1128
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turkey can never be trusted. Look at it from their point of view. Their factions are filled with pan Turkish goofs
. They want to become a power. So they must play the major powers and as ruskies say try to sit in two seats at once. Erdogay is playing a dangerous game. Where it will lead I do not know. But Russia's presence in Syria is important and they wont allow Turkey to push them around or take advantage. Also though Turkey supposedly controls who comes in and out of the black sea it is Russia who truly decides. This is part of the whole reason for this war. The neocon/neolib factions want the black sea to become a natosphere lake.
This is why Erdogan must be careful. They are gunning for him. Next time another coup happens in Turkey, Putin will not save his ass again.
. They want to become a power. So they must play the major powers and as ruskies say try to sit in two seats at once. Erdogay is playing a dangerous game. Where it will lead I do not know. But Russia's presence in Syria is important and they wont allow Turkey to push them around or take advantage. Also though Turkey supposedly controls who comes in and out of the black sea it is Russia who truly decides. This is part of the whole reason for this war. The neocon/neolib factions want the black sea to become a natosphere lake.
This is why Erdogan must be careful. They are gunning for him. Next time another coup happens in Turkey, Putin will not save his ass again.
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Mir- Posts : 3142
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billybatts91 wrote:
Shock and horror! The "neutral" Swedes have always hosted US and British submarines for covert duties against the Soviets/Russians. They have participated in NATzo drills and "intercepted" many Soviet/Russian aircraft and ships in and over the Baltics over many decades - all for their pimp masters in London and Washington. The Fins was slightly more surprising - but as we can see this will only strengthen the Russians in the St Petersburg region.
This can only add to the already shot nerves of the chihuahuas in the Baltics - they have absolutely nothing in terms of defense against the Russians.
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SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3699
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If Russia is dumb enough to trust the Turks after all this time, then they are bigger fools then I thought.
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Sprut-B- Posts : 429
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sepheronx wrote:
Turkey has pushed their luck beyond what is acceptable in my opinion. And reading around it feels that most Russians are rather super pissed about it, including those much higher up and near Putin. But it is the same individual who makes a lot of excuses for Turkey - Peskov. I remember how much hate Peskov gets, the Duran guys rather hate the guy as well. I honestly don't think Peskov can say beyond what he is allowed to and I think the only thing keeping the rest at bay from wanting to pretty much crush Turkeys economy, turning off the gas, stopping any further work on the nuclear plant (if there is much left to do) and then demanding Turkey pay up debt they occurred, is Putin himself.
I never liked this fela Peskov. He sounds like a fifth columnist to me. Why he's Putin's spokesperson is a mystery, as he's nowhere near as competent as Lavrov, Shoigu, or Zakharova in their respective departments.
Also, Putin needs to man up and act tough on the Turks so that the Sultan doesn't get too comfortable playing games with Russia.
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Firebird- Posts : 1726
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Turdogan never fails to live up (or rather DOWN) to his name.
That **** would be dead if America had its way. And is alive because of Russia.
Maybe Russia should spark a civil war between Turdkey and the Kurds and whoever else is game? Iran?
And get Constantinopol back and ensure control of the Bosphorus Straits.
Turdogan is always a snake with Russia esp re the Pukraine, and has no friends anyway.
Once again Putin is being too nice, too laid back, too ostrich like and far too "peacetime leader with no dangers in the World". Unfortunately I am starting to think Russia needs a WARTIME leader, a leader to sort all the messes of the USSR's cessation. Much as Putin is a decent man, maybe he is tired and battle weary. Perhaps he is a man for domestic matters of the current RF, not the wider Russian World. I don't like saying this, but it IS my fear.
That **** would be dead if America had its way. And is alive because of Russia.
Maybe Russia should spark a civil war between Turdkey and the Kurds and whoever else is game? Iran?
And get Constantinopol back and ensure control of the Bosphorus Straits.
Turdogan is always a snake with Russia esp re the Pukraine, and has no friends anyway.
Once again Putin is being too nice, too laid back, too ostrich like and far too "peacetime leader with no dangers in the World". Unfortunately I am starting to think Russia needs a WARTIME leader, a leader to sort all the messes of the USSR's cessation. Much as Putin is a decent man, maybe he is tired and battle weary. Perhaps he is a man for domestic matters of the current RF, not the wider Russian World. I don't like saying this, but it IS my fear.
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billybatts91- Posts : 663
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This is turning into a joke now…
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