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    Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

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    d_taddei2

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:30 am

    so it seems that the Serbs like their AT-3 sagger's, not only do they mount them on just about any armoured vehicle and helicopter, and have upgraded to the Malyutka-2T, but they have done another upgrade (which was news to me Sorry if its old news) the 2T5 which extends the range of the the current version 2T, the range iw now 5 kilometers, which is a guided missile via radio control. The current stats of the 2T are as follows SACLOS 4.4 kg tandem HEAT warhead 1,000 mm penetration versus RHA, improved capability against ERA. Weight 13.7 kg. Speed 120 m/s.

    So some may ask is it worth upgrading these or would it be better to purchase more Bumbar or another ATGW?

    But actually think this new system (2T5) is a pretty good system especially compared the original system. But i actually think that a mix of the two Bumbar and 2T5 is the way to go for Serbia, as the 2T5 has the advantage of range and cost on its side while the Bumbar has a range of only 1000m, but has the advantages of being more accurate, can be launched in confined spaces, and has a much lower minimum range than the 2T5. I remember reading that the AT-3 was the cheapest ATGW available, obviously the 2T5 would be more expensive than the normal version however i wouldn't expect it to much more expensive than the original. And if we take into account of the most recent types of warfare being experienced in the recent conflict zones around the world, neither of them has called for Sophisticated ATGW systems, just look at Syria for example AT-3 sagger, AT-4 Spigot, and AT-5 spandrel, have all been very useful, and not just destroying armour but buildings and enemy positions where the use of Sophisticated ATGW would be a waste of money in these situations.

    Serbia also has the AT-4 Spigot and although i am surprised that they didn't choose this instead of the AT-3 Sagger for upgrading, I think that it came down to cost, like i said the AT-3 seems to be cheap to produce and giving it some simple but effective upgrades would still keep it cheap, where to upgrade the AT-4 might have cost more, and with Bumbar now in production i think it won't be long before they have an upgraded missile on this extending the range to the same as the AT-4 (2.5km) so therefore they will eventually have a two systems in their inventory, one with a high degree of accuracy being able to operate in any weather situations, and the other a cheap effective system with a decent range ideal for destroying buildings, bunkers, positions, and static armoured vehicles.

    whats peoples views on the Serbian Malyutka-2 and 2T5???

    below a pictures of both missiles

    2T and 2F


    2T5.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:40 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:so it seems that the Serbs like their AT-3 sagger's, not only do they mount them on just about any armoured vehicle and helicopter, and have upgraded to the Malyutka-2T, but they have done another upgrade (which was news to me Sorry if its old news) the 2T5 which extends the range of the the current version 2T, the range iw now 5 kilometers, which is a guided missile via radio control. The current stats of the 2T are as follows SACLOS 4.4 kg tandem HEAT warhead 1,000 mm penetration versus RHA, improved capability against ERA. Weight 13.7 kg. Speed 120 m/s.

    So some may ask is it worth upgrading these or would it be better to purchase more Bumbar or another ATGW?

    But actually think this new system (2T5) is a pretty good system especially compared the original system. But i actually think that a mix of the two Bumbar and 2T5 is the way to go for Serbia, as the 2T5 has the advantage of range and cost on its side while the Bumbar has a range of only 1000m, but has the advantages of being more accurate, can be launched in confined spaces, and has a much lower minimum range than the 2T5. I remember reading that the AT-3 was the cheapest ATGW available, obviously the 2T5 would be more expensive than the normal version however i wouldn't expect it to much more expensive than the original. And if we take into account of the most recent types of warfare being experienced in the recent conflict zones around the world, neither of them has called for Sophisticated ATGW systems, just look at Syria for example AT-3 sagger, AT-4 Spigot, and AT-5 spandrel, have all been very useful, and not just destroying armour but buildings and enemy positions where the use of Sophisticated ATGW would be a waste of money in these situations.

    Serbia also has the AT-4 Spigot and although i am surprised that they didn't choose this instead of the AT-3 Sagger for upgrading, I think that it came down to cost, like i said the AT-3 seems to be cheap to produce and giving it some simple but effective upgrades would still keep it cheap, where to upgrade the AT-4 might have cost more, and with Bumbar now in production i think it won't be long before they have an upgraded missile on this extending the range to the same as the AT-4 (2.5km) so therefore they will eventually have a two systems in their inventory, one with a high degree of accuracy being able to operate in any weather situations, and the other a cheap effective system with a decent range ideal for destroying buildings, bunkers, positions, and static armoured vehicles.

    whats peoples views on the Serbian Malyutka-2 and 2T5???

    below a pictures of both missiles

    2T and 2F


    2T5.

    Malytka is mounted in field only on BVP-80, BOV-1 and Gazella-Gama helicopters.

    Also it seems that Bumbar will be shelved, apparently they are having issues with stability of missile in flight and price tag is way too high for our armed forces. Also it has 600m range not 1000m, variant with 1000m range was proposed for development but it was never made. Reason was that it would add 2kg to the missile and it would go above weight limitations required by Serbian Army.

    There also was word of Bumbar "3000" as they called it which was supposed to grow into vehicle carried 3000m range missile with same warhead however it never went further than words.

    Serbian company Krušik obtained licence for AT-4 Spigot (allegedly) but never produced even a single unit ever, as war in 90s and financial issues made it impossible. There was also domestic development in same class called DRUG, which went fairly far away but then was stopped somewhere in the 90s due to financial reasons.

    These modifications of Malytka are just ways to slightly improve badly outdated equipment we have without spending huge amounts of money for real decent systems, money which we do not have. Last year Serbian army spent i belive 12 million USD on procurement of new equipment. For that kind of money in terms of military equipment you can buy..well...nothing.
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    d_taddei2

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:29 am

    Militarov wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:so it seems that the Serbs like their AT-3 sagger's, not only do they mount them on just about any armoured vehicle and helicopter, and have upgraded to the Malyutka-2T, but they have done another upgrade (which was news to me Sorry if its old news) the 2T5 which extends the range of the the current version 2T, the range iw now 5 kilometers, which is a guided missile via radio control. The current stats of the 2T are as follows SACLOS 4.4 kg tandem HEAT warhead 1,000 mm penetration versus RHA, improved capability against ERA. Weight 13.7 kg. Speed 120 m/s.

    So some may ask is it worth upgrading these or would it be better to purchase more Bumbar or another ATGW?

    But actually think this new system (2T5) is a pretty good system especially compared the original system. But i actually think that a mix of the two Bumbar and 2T5 is the way to go for Serbia, as the 2T5 has the advantage of range and cost on its side while the Bumbar has a range of only 1000m, but has the advantages of being more accurate, can be launched in confined spaces, and has a much lower minimum range than the 2T5. I remember reading that the AT-3 was the cheapest ATGW available, obviously the 2T5 would be more expensive than the normal version however i wouldn't expect it to much more expensive than the original. And if we take into account of the most recent types of warfare being experienced in the recent conflict zones around the world, neither of them has called for Sophisticated ATGW systems, just look at Syria for example AT-3 sagger, AT-4 Spigot, and AT-5 spandrel, have all been very useful, and not just destroying armour but buildings and enemy positions where the use of Sophisticated ATGW would be a waste of money in these situations.

    Serbia also has the AT-4 Spigot and although i am surprised that they didn't choose this instead of the AT-3 Sagger for upgrading, I think that it came down to cost, like i said the AT-3 seems to be cheap to produce and giving it some simple but effective upgrades would still keep it cheap, where to upgrade the AT-4 might have cost more, and with Bumbar now in production i think it won't be long before they have an upgraded missile on this extending the range to the same as the AT-4 (2.5km) so therefore they will eventually have a two systems in their inventory, one with a high degree of accuracy being able to operate in any weather situations, and the other a cheap effective system with a decent range ideal for destroying buildings, bunkers, positions, and static armoured vehicles.

    whats peoples views on the Serbian Malyutka-2 and 2T5???

    below a pictures of both missiles

    2T and 2F


    2T5.

    Malytka is mounted in field only on BVP-80, BOV-1 and Gazella-Gama helicopters.

    Also it seems that Bumbar will be shelved, apparently they are having issues with stability of missile in flight and price tag is way too high for our armed forces. Also it has 600m range not 1000m, variant with 1000m range was proposed for development but it was never made. Reason was that it would add 2kg to the missile and it would go above weight limitations required by Serbian Army.

    There also was word of Bumbar "3000" as they called it which was supposed to grow into vehicle carried 3000m range missile with same warhead however it never went further than words.

    Serbian company Krušik obtained licence for AT-4 Spigot (allegedly) but never produced even a single unit ever, as war in 90s and financial issues made it impossible. There was also domestic development in same class called DRUG, which went fairly far away but then was stopped somewhere in the 90s due to financial reasons.

    These modifications of Malytka are just ways to slightly improve badly outdated equipment we have without spending huge amounts of money for real decent systems, money which we do not have. Last year Serbian army spent i belive 12 million USD on procurement of new equipment. For that kind of money in terms of military equipment you can buy..well...nothing.

    wow $12m that really is next to nothing, its a shame as i actually think for single small country Serbia comes up with some decent stuff but just doesn't have the cash to put it into full production or to buy it in good numbers, the Nora 52-B and Sora 122mm are good.

    I did think the Bumbar was 600m but when i went onto manufacturer website it stated 1000m but like you said this must have been a different version.

    i once saw a picture of a Serbian Mi-8 with AT-3 on it but i think the picture was taken at some sort of promo fair/show.

    also do you know if Serbia ever upgraded any of its BTR-50 to BTR-50S??? which i kinda felt was quite a good upgrade for something so outdated but then i thought the armour of the vehicle was a bit of draw back, and the vehicle being pretty big would be an easy target. The only thing really the BTR-50 can be useful for now is either command, comms, ambulance, transport of ammo or some sort of engineer vehicle, but i would say ambulance would be best suited due its size which is ideal for stretchers and medical equipment, but obviously this would require some modifications to the hull, i believe there was a Lebanese version which was turned into medivac.

    but anyway i actually think the 2T5 isn't all that bad and its good that they are making use of what they have. Its a real shame about the budget, as Serbian forces seem pretty professional and capable.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:42 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:so it seems that the Serbs like their AT-3 sagger's, not only do they mount them on just about any armoured vehicle and helicopter, and have upgraded to the Malyutka-2T, but they have done another upgrade (which was news to me Sorry if its old news) the 2T5 which extends the range of the the current version 2T, the range iw now 5 kilometers, which is a guided missile via radio control. The current stats of the 2T are as follows SACLOS 4.4 kg tandem HEAT warhead 1,000 mm penetration versus RHA, improved capability against ERA. Weight 13.7 kg. Speed 120 m/s.

    So some may ask is it worth upgrading these or would it be better to purchase more Bumbar or another ATGW?

    But actually think this new system (2T5) is a pretty good system especially compared the original system. But i actually think that a mix of the two Bumbar and 2T5 is the way to go for Serbia, as the 2T5 has the advantage of range and cost on its side while the Bumbar has a range of only 1000m, but has the advantages of being more accurate, can be launched in confined spaces, and has a much lower minimum range than the 2T5. I remember reading that the AT-3 was the cheapest ATGW available, obviously the 2T5 would be more expensive than the normal version however i wouldn't expect it to much more expensive than the original. And if we take into account of the most recent types of warfare being experienced in the recent conflict zones around the world, neither of them has called for Sophisticated ATGW systems, just look at Syria for example AT-3 sagger, AT-4 Spigot, and AT-5 spandrel, have all been very useful, and not just destroying armour but buildings and enemy positions where the use of Sophisticated ATGW would be a waste of money in these situations.

    Serbia also has the AT-4 Spigot and although i am surprised that they didn't choose this instead of the AT-3 Sagger for upgrading, I think that it came down to cost, like i said the AT-3 seems to be cheap to produce and giving it some simple but effective upgrades would still keep it cheap, where to upgrade the AT-4 might have cost more, and with Bumbar now in production i think it won't be long before they have an upgraded missile on this extending the range to the same as the AT-4 (2.5km) so therefore they will eventually have a two systems in their inventory, one with a high degree of accuracy being able to operate in any weather situations, and the other a cheap effective system with a decent range ideal for destroying buildings, bunkers, positions, and static armoured vehicles.

    whats peoples views on the Serbian Malyutka-2 and 2T5???

    below a pictures of both missiles

    2T and 2F


    2T5.

    Malytka is mounted in field only on BVP-80, BOV-1 and Gazella-Gama helicopters.

    Also it seems that Bumbar will be shelved, apparently they are having issues with stability of missile in flight and price tag is way too high for our armed forces. Also it has 600m range not 1000m, variant with 1000m range was proposed for development but it was never made. Reason was that it would add 2kg to the missile and it would go above weight limitations required by Serbian Army.

    There also was word of Bumbar "3000" as they called it which was supposed to grow into vehicle carried 3000m range missile with same warhead however it never went further than words.

    Serbian company Krušik obtained licence for AT-4 Spigot (allegedly) but never produced even a single unit ever, as war in 90s and financial issues made it impossible. There was also domestic development in same class called DRUG, which went fairly far away but then was stopped somewhere in the 90s due to financial reasons.

    These modifications of Malytka are just ways to slightly improve badly outdated equipment we have without spending huge amounts of money for real decent systems, money which we do not have. Last year Serbian army spent i belive 12 million USD on procurement of new equipment. For that kind of money in terms of military equipment you can buy..well...nothing.

    wow $12m that really is next to nothing, its a shame as i actually think for single small country Serbia comes up with some decent stuff but just doesn't have the cash to put it into full production or to buy it in good numbers, the Nora 52-B and Sora 122mm are good.

    I did think the Bumbar was 600m but when i went onto manufacturer website it stated 1000m but like you said this must have been a different version.

    i once saw a picture of a Serbian Mi-8 with AT-3 on it but i think the picture was taken at some sort of promo fair/show.

    also do you know if Serbia ever upgraded any of its BTR-50 to BTR-50S??? which i kinda felt was quite a good upgrade for something so outdated but then i thought the armour of the vehicle was a bit of draw back, and the vehicle being pretty big would be an easy target. The only thing really the BTR-50 can be useful for now is either command, comms, ambulance, transport of ammo or some sort of engineer vehicle, but i would say ambulance would be best suited due its size which is ideal for stretchers and medical equipment, but obviously this would require some modifications to the hull, i believe there was a Lebanese version which was turned into medivac.

    but anyway i actually think the 2T5 isn't all that bad and its good that they are making use of what they have. Its a real shame about the budget, as Serbian forces seem pretty professional and capable.    

    Well this year they spent abit more, as they obtained two new helicopters and ordered some items from YUGOIMPORT but still its far, far below what would be required.

    Yeah, that Mi-8 you saw is probably some Photoshop Frankenstein of Yugoimport, Photoshop company.

    No, i am not aware of command BTRs ever being modernised or updated. Some of those were attached to AAA units that used 20mm cannons back in time i remember sitting in one in Novi Sad.

    2T5 is okay if it ends up being used on vehicles, however if they try forcing it into infantry in AT squads that wont go well.

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  cheesfactory on Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:52 am

    @d_taddei2
    The Serbian army has been reduced to a level of a firefighter brigade, no more no less. Thousands of former members of the army are still waiting for justified salary compensation, living below the existence minimum. Active sf members living with wife and child in 1 room appartements because the wage is not enough for more. Know enough such cases in my circle of friends. That says everything about the Serbian army and its possibility to acquire new heavy caliber...its a shame but we do not seem to deserve anything better...
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    GarryB

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:56 am

    a shame but we do not seem to deserve anything better...

    Of course you deserve better... and the shame is on the politicians.

    The NATO war crimes against Serbia prove it is about people... if you had the weapons of Saudi Arabia and the soldiers of Saudi Arabia they probably would have defeated you in two weeks.

    They had to resort to all sorts of war crimes to get you to the table to talk in the end... promising Russia would be part of the solution and then reneging on that like the cowards they are.

    Regarding the equipment... what they have done with the AT_3 is rather impressive, but the low flight speed would be a problem in combat... a target at 5km would take quite some time to get to at 120m/s... a target moving from cover to cover would be almost impossible to engage near max range simply because the window of opportunity would be too short.

    The Soviets replaced the AT-3 with a combination of AT-4 and AT-7 and later AT-13, with medium range targets being dealt with using AT-5 and later Kornet.

    The AT-13 is cheap and simple and has excellent penetration and is totally man portable... a three man team can carry the launcher with bipod and a missile plus two other men each with two missiles each for a pack weight of about 25kgs per man where the missiles are about 13kgs each and the launcher is about the same.


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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:27 am

    GarryB wrote:
    a shame but we do not seem to deserve anything better...

    Of course you deserve better... and the shame is on the politicians.

    The NATO war crimes against Serbia prove it is about people... if you had the weapons of Saudi Arabia and the soldiers of Saudi Arabia they probably would have defeated you in two weeks.

    They had to resort to all sorts of war crimes to get you to the table to talk in the end... promising Russia would be part of the solution and then reneging on that like the cowards they are.

    Regarding the equipment... what they have done with the AT_3 is rather impressive, but the low flight speed would be a problem in combat... a target at 5km would take quite some time to get to at 120m/s... a target moving from cover to cover would be almost impossible to engage near max range simply because the window of opportunity would be too short.

    The Soviets replaced the AT-3 with a combination of AT-4 and AT-7 and later AT-13, with medium range targets being dealt with using AT-5 and later Kornet.

    The AT-13 is cheap and simple and has excellent penetration and is totally man portable... a three man team can carry the launcher with bipod and a missile plus two other men each with two missiles each for a pack weight of about 25kgs per man where the missiles are about 13kgs each and the launcher is about the same.

    i agree very impressive for such an old system, but like i said these older systems have proven to be valuable in Syria, and like i also said the 2T5 is cheap effective system with a decent range ideal for destroying buildings, bunkers, positions, and static armoured vehicles. As like you said moving vehicles would have to be going very slow in order to hit as trying to hit a normal moving vehicle would be very hard, and would be better to use more hi tech systems for this, which makes perfect sense why waste an expensive missile on a building, enemy position or static vehicle when a cheaper one will do the same effect
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    a shame but we do not seem to deserve anything better...

    Of course you deserve better... and the shame is on the politicians.

    The NATO war crimes against Serbia prove it is about people... if you had the weapons of Saudi Arabia and the soldiers of Saudi Arabia they probably would have defeated you in two weeks.

    They had to resort to all sorts of war crimes to get you to the table to talk in the end... promising Russia would be part of the solution and then reneging on that like the cowards they are.

    Regarding the equipment... what they have done with the AT_3 is rather impressive, but the low flight speed would be a problem in combat... a target at 5km would take quite some time to get to at 120m/s... a target moving from cover to cover would be almost impossible to engage near max range simply because the window of opportunity would be too short.

    The Soviets replaced the AT-3 with a combination of AT-4 and AT-7 and later AT-13, with medium range targets being dealt with using AT-5 and later Kornet.

    The AT-13 is cheap and simple and has excellent penetration and is totally man portable... a three man team can carry the launcher with bipod and a missile plus two other men each with two missiles each for a pack weight of about 25kgs per man where the missiles are about 13kgs each and the launcher is about the same.

    Speed is increased dramatically if we belive claims by VTI, they claim current average speed of this new "big" Malytka is between 180 and 200 m/s. However in Serbian military forum circles, some people that worked for decades in missile development have certain...doubts about whole thing but we shall see.

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  cheesfactory on Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:34 pm

    200m/s with the same old guidance? we cursed enough with the classic maljutka...
    I still not belive that reliable hits are possible on 5km with the new rocket (same guidance) on targets 1,5 x 2m. Perhaps under perfectly test conditions (Perfect sight, weather, brightness). Operating the old one was already a challenge. That will confirm each who have ever guide this system. Updating maljutkas is in my opinion the wrong way.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:54 pm

    cheesfactory wrote:200m/s with the same old guidance? we cursed enough with the classic maljutka...
    I still not belive that reliable hits are possible on 5km with the new rocket (same guidance) on targets 1,5 x 2m. Perhaps under perfectly test conditions (Perfect sight, weather, brightness). Operating the old one was already a challenge. That will confirm each who have ever guide this system. Updating maljutkas is in my opinion the wrong way.

    It does not use same "wire" guidance previous types used, its using radio-command guidance.
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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:55 am

    i agree very impressive for such an old system, but like i said these older systems have proven to be valuable in Syria, and like i also said the 2T5 is cheap effective system with a decent range ideal for destroying buildings, bunkers, positions, and static armoured vehicles. As like you said moving vehicles would have to be going very slow in order to hit as trying to hit a normal moving vehicle would be very hard, and would be better to use more hi tech systems for this, which makes perfect sense why waste an expensive missile on a building, enemy position or static vehicle when a cheaper one will do the same effect

    The real question however is... is it actually cheaper?

    Of course it is cheaper to use already made stockpiled missiles, but they have all the faults and limitations of the older generation missiles. If you then perform a few upgrades then you start spending money and you need to ask yourself would that extra money be better spend upgrading to a whole new system that is better in many ways.

    For instance the removing of the wire guidance means a speed increase from 120m/s to say 200m/s which is significant but not amazing.

    Of course weapons designed from the outset to use radio command guidance often have speeds of twice this at up to 450m/s like SHTURM or 400m/s like ATAKA... and greatly increased range, but also increased weight to the 40kg weight range.

    If the requirement is light weight then there is a limitation you need to work around.

    Of course I am a huge fan of the Metis-M1... it would be interesting to take this system and make a hybrid with the AT-3.

    the Metis has the advantage of modern guidance (SACLOS) and light weight of the launcher and missile. This upgraded Sagger seems to have radically improved range and a modest increase in speed with the change to radio command guidance... I wonder if the same changes applied to the Metis would lead to a better performing missile... especially if the warhead could be replaced with a HE FRAG weapon for the sundry targets these systems tend to be used against.

    It does not use same "wire" guidance previous types used, its using radio-command guidance.

    With the improved range I would hope SACLOS at least would make it easier to operate... especially with decent magnified optics.

    I should add that so many westerners I speak to have never heard of the AT-7 and really knew little about it despite it being very widely deployed as a replacement for the AT-3.

    I remember during the 1980s buying all sorts of military magazines that never mentioned the system even though it entered service in 1979...

    it had a flight speed of 220m/s with wire guidance... so 200m/s for upgrade Saggers should be practical...


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    galicije83

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  galicije83 on Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:37 am

    This is latest 4x4 armored vehicle made by SDPR and is called M-05 "Vuk" or "Wolf"....
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    George1

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:23 pm

    New Serbian armored vehicle BOV M16 Miloš

    On the following February 19, 2017 in Abu Dhabi (UAE), the international defense exhibition IDEX-2017 Serbian military-industrial association "Јugoimport - SDPR" introduced a new armored vehicle BOV M16 Miloš class MRAP 4x4. The machine was designed and built a new company "Borbeni folded Systems" (BSS) "Јugoimport - SDPR" in Velika Plana.

    It is reported that the car BOV M16 Miloš has full combat weight depending on configuration from 12 to 14 tons. . Machine length 5.48 m, width 2.48 m, height 2.3 m capacity of eight people, four of whom are located in four-door cabin, and four - in the troop compartment with a stern ramp. Hulls bearing with the introduction of mine protection, including a V-shaped bottom.

    The machine has a diesel engine Cummins ISB 300 output of 300 hp combined with a six-speed ,, automatic transmission Allison 3500SP. The speed on the highway up to 110 km / h and a cruising range of 500 km. Presented at the IDEX-2017 the first prototype BOV M16 Miloš features designed "Јugoimport - SDPR" remotely controlled weapon module M15 with a 12.7-mm machine gun.



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2444586.html


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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:06 am

    George1 wrote:New Serbian armored vehicle BOV M16 Miloš

    On the following February 19, 2017 in Abu Dhabi (UAE), the international defense exhibition IDEX-2017 Serbian military-industrial association "Јugoimport - SDPR" introduced a new armored vehicle BOV M16 Miloš class MRAP 4x4. The machine was designed and built a new company "Borbeni folded Systems" (BSS) "Јugoimport - SDPR" in Velika Plana.

    It is reported that the car BOV M16 Miloš has full combat weight depending on configuration from 12 to 14 tons. . Machine length 5.48 m, width 2.48 m, height 2.3 m capacity of eight people, four of whom are located in four-door cabin, and four - in the troop compartment with a stern ramp. Hulls bearing with the introduction of mine protection, including a V-shaped bottom.

    The machine has a diesel engine Cummins ISB 300 output of 300 hp combined with a six-speed ,, automatic transmission Allison 3500SP. The speed on the highway up to 110 km / h and a cruising range of 500 km. Presented at the IDEX-2017 the first prototype BOV M16 Miloš features designed "Јugoimport - SDPR" remotely controlled weapon module M15 with a 12.7-mm machine gun.



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2444586.html

    http://www.armyrecognition.com/idex_2017_official_online_show_daily_news/yugoimport_from_serbia_unveils_new_milosh_4x4_multipupose_armoured_vehicle_at_idex_2017_11902176.html

    Abit more if someone is interested
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    Godric

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Godric on Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:39 am

    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:New Serbian armored vehicle BOV M16 Miloš

    On the following February 19, 2017 in Abu Dhabi (UAE), the international defense exhibition IDEX-2017 Serbian military-industrial association "Јugoimport - SDPR" introduced a new armored vehicle BOV M16 Miloš class MRAP 4x4. The machine was designed and built a new company "Borbeni folded Systems" (BSS) "Јugoimport - SDPR" in Velika Plana.

    It is reported that the car BOV M16 Miloš has full combat weight depending on configuration from 12 to 14 tons. . Machine length 5.48 m, width 2.48 m, height 2.3 m capacity of eight people, four of whom are located in four-door cabin, and four - in the troop compartment with a stern ramp. Hulls bearing with the introduction of mine protection, including a V-shaped bottom.

    The machine has a diesel engine Cummins ISB 300 output of 300 hp combined with a six-speed ,, automatic transmission Allison 3500SP. The speed on the highway up to 110 km / h and a cruising range of 500 km. Presented at the IDEX-2017 the first prototype BOV M16 Miloš features designed "Јugoimport - SDPR" remotely controlled weapon module M15 with a 12.7-mm machine gun.



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2444586.html

    http://www.armyrecognition.com/idex_2017_official_online_show_daily_news/yugoimport_from_serbia_unveils_new_milosh_4x4_multipupose_armoured_vehicle_at_idex_2017_11902176.html

    Abit more if someone is interested

    it looks pretty decent ... Serbia has been coming out with some decent hardware recently ... like the ever improving Lazar and i see the Nora B-52 has a pretty decent range on some rounds 56Km on M15 rounds and 67Km on some new prototype round
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:26 pm


    Looks good, was not expecting that many new products. Also check out that wheel size on Milos MRAP.

    THOSE ARE the wheels you should install on your military sh*t. This is something you can actually use in rain and off paved roads. Unlike certain EE countries, our guys at least know how to design off-road vehicles that can go off road.

    Now if they would be so kind to actually start producing and delivering those things to the Army that would be super awesome.


    Video with some fresh stuff (missiles, UAV, helicopter drone, APC, missile boat...);

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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:30 pm

    Godric wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:New Serbian armored vehicle BOV M16 Miloš

    On the following February 19, 2017 in Abu Dhabi (UAE), the international defense exhibition IDEX-2017 Serbian military-industrial association "Јugoimport - SDPR" introduced a new armored vehicle BOV M16 Miloš class MRAP 4x4. The machine was designed and built a new company "Borbeni folded Systems" (BSS) "Јugoimport - SDPR" in Velika Plana.

    It is reported that the car BOV M16 Miloš has full combat weight depending on configuration from 12 to 14 tons. . Machine length 5.48 m, width 2.48 m, height 2.3 m capacity of eight people, four of whom are located in four-door cabin, and four - in the troop compartment with a stern ramp. Hulls bearing with the introduction of mine protection, including a V-shaped bottom.

    The machine has a diesel engine Cummins ISB 300 output of 300 hp combined with a six-speed ,, automatic transmission Allison 3500SP. The speed on the highway up to 110 km / h and a cruising range of 500 km. Presented at the IDEX-2017 the first prototype BOV M16 Miloš features designed "Јugoimport - SDPR" remotely controlled weapon module M15 with a 12.7-mm machine gun.



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2444586.html

    http://www.armyrecognition.com/idex_2017_official_online_show_daily_news/yugoimport_from_serbia_unveils_new_milosh_4x4_multipupose_armoured_vehicle_at_idex_2017_11902176.html

    Abit more if someone is interested

    it looks pretty decent ... Serbia has been coming out with some decent hardware recently ... like the ever improving Lazar and i see the Nora B-52 has a pretty decent range on some rounds 56Km on M15 rounds and 67Km on some new prototype round

    Thing is that very little of it is actually Serbian. All those systems use mainly imported either components, and even materials. Engines, transmission, tires, steel, reinforced glass, basically all electronic components, even base anti-corrosive paint is being imported. But yea i guess its better than not being present on international market at all. Its all just tiny tiny shadow of what back in time Yugoslavia was capable of.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:25 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Godric wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:New Serbian armored vehicle BOV M16 Miloš

    On the following February 19, 2017 in Abu Dhabi (UAE), the international defense exhibition IDEX-2017 Serbian military-industrial association "Јugoimport - SDPR" introduced a new armored vehicle BOV M16 Miloš class MRAP 4x4. The machine was designed and built a new company "Borbeni folded Systems" (BSS) "Јugoimport - SDPR" in Velika Plana.

    It is reported that the car BOV M16 Miloš has full combat weight depending on configuration from 12 to 14 tons. . Machine length 5.48 m, width 2.48 m, height 2.3 m capacity of eight people, four of whom are located in four-door cabin, and four - in the troop compartment with a stern ramp. Hulls bearing with the introduction of mine protection, including a V-shaped bottom.

    The machine has a diesel engine Cummins ISB 300 output of 300 hp combined with a six-speed ,, automatic transmission Allison 3500SP. The speed on the highway up to 110 km / h and a cruising range of 500 km. Presented at the IDEX-2017 the first prototype BOV M16 Miloš features designed "Јugoimport - SDPR" remotely controlled weapon module M15 with a 12.7-mm machine gun.



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2444586.html

    http://www.armyrecognition.com/idex_2017_official_online_show_daily_news/yugoimport_from_serbia_unveils_new_milosh_4x4_multipupose_armoured_vehicle_at_idex_2017_11902176.html

    Abit more if someone is interested

    it looks pretty decent ... Serbia has been coming out with some decent hardware recently ... like the ever improving Lazar and i see the Nora B-52 has a pretty decent range on some rounds 56Km on M15 rounds and 67Km on some new prototype round

    Thing is that very little of it is actually Serbian. All those systems use mainly imported either components, and even materials. Engines, transmission, tires, steel, reinforced glass, basically all electronic components, even base anti-corrosive paint is being imported. But yea i guess its better than not being present on international market at all. Its all just tiny tiny shadow of what back in time Yugoslavia was capable of.

    IR camera for driver is a nice touch.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:56 pm

    Militarov wrote:...............

    Thing is that very little of it is actually Serbian. All those systems use mainly imported either components, and even materials. Engines, transmission, tires, steel, reinforced glass, basically all electronic components, even base anti-corrosive paint is being imported. But yea i guess its better than not being present on international market at all. Its all just tiny tiny shadow of what back in time Yugoslavia was capable of.

    Very true but Yugoslavia is dead, buried and decomposed so no use getting worked up over non issue.

    Nothing is local for countries of this size today. All that matters is that you have plenty of spare parts lying around when SHTF. Parts origin is irrelevant, we of all people should know this.

    What irks me is procurement. When the hell do they plan to start adopting these things?

    Exports are nice but unless you use it yourself nobody will be dumb enough to buy it from you.
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    calm

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  calm on Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:21 pm





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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:40 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Militarov wrote:...............

    Thing is that very little of it is actually Serbian. All those systems use mainly imported either components, and even materials. Engines, transmission, tires, steel, reinforced glass, basically all electronic components, even base anti-corrosive paint is being imported. But yea i guess its better than not being present on international market at all. Its all just tiny tiny shadow of what back in time Yugoslavia was capable of.

    Very true but Yugoslavia is dead, buried and decomposed so no use getting worked up over non issue.

    Nothing is local for countries of this size today. All that matters is that you have plenty of spare parts lying around when SHTF. Parts origin is irrelevant, we of all people should know this.

    What irks me is procurement. When the hell do they plan to start adopting these things?

    Exports are nice but unless you use it yourself nobody will be dumb enough to buy it from you.

    Just saying, people are sometimes forgeting what Yugoslavia was in this field, real "tiny giant". My father was always getting offers from abroad to move and work, simply coz he was an engineer in ex Yugo def. industry, it was powerful reference back in time.

    Well, depends, some countries focus on licence procurement or reverse engineering instead of procuring directly abroad. Israel is really not much bigger than Serbia, yet they produce mindblowing amounts of components as completely domestic product. Naturally they import alot too, but considering their size... they are impressive.

    Well... they bought just like 2 years ago over 100 Land Rovers... they are getting as "gift" more Hummers (40?), so considering that we have army comparable in manpower to hunting club in major city... i dont think we will see some huge orders of vehicles like this. There will be token amounts ordered from the exact reason you mentioned, so they can sell them abroad easier.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:38 pm

    Militarov wrote:..............................
    Just saying, people are sometimes forgeting what Yugoslavia was in this field, real "tiny giant". My father was always getting offers from abroad to move and work, simply coz he was an engineer in ex Yugo def. industry, it was powerful reference back in time.

    Well, depends, some countries focus on licence procurement or reverse engineering instead of procuring directly abroad. Israel is really not much bigger than Serbia, yet they produce mindblowing amounts of components as completely domestic product. Naturally they import alot too, but considering their size... they are impressive.

    Well... they bought just like 2 years ago over 100 Land Rovers... they are getting as "gift" more Hummers (40?), so considering that we have army comparable in manpower to hunting club in major city... i dont think we will see some huge orders of vehicles like this. There will be token amounts ordered from the exact reason you mentioned, so they can sell them abroad easier.

    I hear ya'.

    As for procurment yes, our Army is small but it makes sense because today for us there are only 2 types of potential wars:

    1) Ones far away that we don't give two figs about, let alone fight.

    2) Massive local sh*tstorms that require total mobilization so you are going back to basics anyway.

    I am not saying they need to go on a shopping spree but they should get one each every couple or several months. After a decade (or less if finances will it) we will have several dozens or maybe up to a hundred (again, if finances will it) in storage. That can't hurt and it will help with marketing.

    At that pace it will hardly make a huge dent in the budget. And in time they can start localizing some of the components, who knows...
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    galicije83

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  galicije83 on Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:19 pm

    М06 Милош/Milos

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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  Militarov on Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:31 pm

    galicije83 wrote:М06 Милош/Milos


    Velika Plana got renamed into Abu Dhabi apparently.
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    galicije83

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    Re: Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    Post  galicije83 on Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:53 pm

    probably....i made one mistake it isnt M06 its M16 Milos...

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