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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

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    Viktor
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:21 pm

    medo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

    With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

    Nothing to worry about. EU will still need Russian oil and gas, only payment will be different (gold, Ruble, Juan).  Wink 

    I agree with you. Thing is that US and their lap dogs are trying to influence Russian politics bit by bit over sanction threat. When you see cronolgy of the events than it goes something like this:

    1. dont enter Ukraine
    2. move troops from border
    3. talk to Poroshenko the nazi
    4. admit it as a legitime president
    5. stop arms and volunteers over the border
    6. influence pro-Russian population to submit
    7. whats next?

    Basically they are asking from Russia to do their job under threat of sanctions. Thats something Russia should never accept and should make appropriate counter-sanctions that would

    cause havor in the EU lines.

    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  arpakola on Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:34 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

    With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

    Nothing to worry about. EU will still need Russian oil and gas, only payment will be different (gold, Ruble, Juan).  Wink 

    I agree with you. Thing is that US and their lap dogs are trying to influence Russian politics bit by bit over sanction threat. When you see cronolgy of the events than it goes something like this:

    1. dont enter Ukraine
    2. move troops from border
    3. talk to Poroshenko the nazi
    4. admit it as a legitime president
    5. stop arms and volunteers over the border
    6. influence pro-Russian population to submit
    7. whats next?

    Basically they are asking from Russia to do their job under threat of sanctions. Thats something Russia should never accept and should make appropriate counter-sanctions that would

    cause havor in the EU lines.

    Bend over..? And I will give u a. lilypop

    Vann7
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:36 pm

    Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

    With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

    What you have there is about 5 nations..

    US ,Canada ,Germany ,France, Japan ,UK ,.. the EU secretaries DO NOT represent the opinion
    of all the EU nations.. Many countries in the EU do not support real sanctions against Russia.
    So what you have there is a group of 5 or 6 at best. But from those group..Canada means shit for Russia
    since they do not have trading with them. and Canada always say Yes to whatever thing Obama say anyway.
    IF Obama ask Canadian ministers to kiss Conchita  mouth and lick Netanyahu ass.. they will do it.

    So what is left behind is US and UK threatening to pressure Germany and France . But already France said they will not
    backdown the mistral deal.. So what is left? US and Germany.  And Germany cannot sanction Russia ,because that will be shooting
    in their foot . Russia buys far more from Germany than Germany from Russia. Germany could lose 400,000 jobs in automobile industry alone if Russia strike back.. and many more if CHina and India follows. The germany automobile industry could collapse in Asia and in turn
    make the Germany economy fall in a big recession specially if cut the gas to supply to germany. If the EU do sanctions to Russia ,individual
    countries can make transactions using Rubles to bypass american sanctions.. so is more tricky than you think.

    Obama sanctions are worth of shit if Europe says no and continue trading with  Russia.. so what you see there is a talk service.
    But they will not suicide their economies sanctioning Russia at the time to put in practice what they say with words. Obama can hit Russian banks but Russia can hit American banks too and  freeze American Assets in Russia , Refuse to pay its 800 billion debt with american banks and dump their US  $ 100 billions in  American bonds ,damaging the US dollar value.

    Basically they are asking from Russia to .... wrote:

    Is more than that.. The US elite simply wants to destroy Russia in many parts and bankrupt its economy ,
    they do not like competition in the leadership of the world. Ukraine conflict was created by the US congress as a tool
    to hit Russia economy through sanctions and by luring them into a war and get NATO bases near Russia.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:22 pm

    Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

    With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

    I think that Barry's out of touch with reality.

    As far as recognition of poroshenko goes, it was not even intended to do otherwise  Smile

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  arpakola on Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:32 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

    With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

    I think that Barry's out of touch with reality.

    As far as recognition of poroshenko goes, it was not even intended to do otherwise  Smile

    actually as the recognition case .. I haven't seen  oficial recognition .. but Vlad said.. I respect the desision of Ukranian people.. wich is a n ot straigh forward recognition ..

    =============================================
    Armed group in Artemivsk in the Donetsk region reportedly fired at the car of Ukrainian army officer Volodymyr Chobotok. Chobotok surived the attack:


    .

    =====================================================
    The car Maxim Petrukhin was in. counted 10 impacts.


    after the colection of the body


    Last edited by arpakola on Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:43 pm; edited 3 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:38 pm

    arpakola wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

    With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

    I think that Barry's out of touch with reality.

    As far as recognition of poroshenko goes, it was not even intended to do otherwise  Smile

    actually as the recognition case .. I haven't seen  oficial recognition .. but Vlad said.. I respect the desision of Ukranian people.. wich is a n ot straigh forward recognition ..

    Lemmie guess. Putin's fanboy?  Wink 


    That "respect of the decision" is de facto recognition at least. And considering that Russia did not recognize DNR/LNR, if they won't recognize poroshenko, then there would be no one in ukraine to talk with AT ALL, that would be illogical.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  arpakola on Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:09 am

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    arpakola wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

    With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

    I think that Barry's out of touch with reality.

    As far as recognition of poroshenko goes, it was not even intended to do otherwise  Smile

    actually as the recognition case .. I haven't seen  oficial recognition .. but Vlad said.. I respect the desision of Ukranian people.. wich is a n ot straigh forward recognition ..

    Lemmie guess. Putin's fanboy?  Wink 


    That "respect of the decision" is de facto recognition at least. And considering that Russia did not recognize DNR/LNR, if they won't recognize poroshenko, then there would be no one in ukraine to talk with AT ALL, that would be illogical.

    Agree

    but the situation today with Putin is similar with the case of the Greek revolution at 1821 when Ekaterine was the tsar in Russia  (and later Char Nicholas ..?) The  Greeke revolutionaries had placed a lot of hope in Russia help to the rvolution against the Turks. It was logical to expect help  because Orlovs tried once unsuccefuly to help (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlov_Revolt ) at 1770. The Greek revolution started and orginised by a secret society in Odessa (the filiki eteria) Also  many greek general serving in the Russian army were with the revolution , like Ipsilandis , Kapodistrias etc. Also navy  admiral served under Ekaterine  participated in the rvolution like Labros Katsonis and Varvakis. All honored by Ekaterina for their efforts against the turkish fleet in Black sea and Aegean.

    BUT..

    Russia did  not supported the revolution activly, openly .. she was just  sympathetic with it  but there  was minimum involvment.
    When  the uprising started FEBR/March 1821 , the officers  were  saying lies to the people  that they have the full support of Moscva  and personal letters from Tsar .. that will help activly.  So we started the revolution , wich ended  at 1829  with the establishment of the Greek state initially. The only russian participation has in the navy batle of Navarino .. but along with the Frence and English navy and that at the last year of the fight..

    No one realy can say for shure , why Ekaterina and Nicholas didnt help .. although friendly  to the Greek  uprising. My beleave is that the Greek revolution against the Otoman empire  was a direct conciquence  of the French revolution of 1789.  And was not only a national revolution against the Otomans but also a social revolution against the Holy pact (Austrian empire in Balkans) and Metenrih. Probably that aspect of the revolution was scaring the Russian Tsarin..

    So  When I ve seen Gubarev in his youtube spech .. in front of Putin and Chaves portrate.. I made a guess .. that many in Moscow .. look at the Donbass revolution with horror as the people there  have social demands also .. and they will not accept any Russian "Porosenkos"


    I think that this is the main reason .. Russia is leting them alone.. not the western sanctions , wich I beleave are used as an excuse..
    (I realy hope IM wrong 100%.. but the historic similaritis  are there)


    In the picture Alexandros Ypsilandis .. as officer of the Russian army http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Ypsilantis
    Alexander Ypsilantis is mentioned in Russian literature by Alexander Pushkin in his short story The Shot. The hero of Pushkin's story, Silivio dies in a campaign under command of Ypsilantis.
    -------------------------------
    Ypsilandis was dreaming not a Greek revolution but a Balkan revolution , from Peloponise  to Beograd and Moldova. And there is where he came in conflict not only with the |Otomans but also with the Austrians and Metenrix=h , who didnt wanted  any changes in the status of central - south Europe

    =========================================================
    the aftermath of the story is that Russia lost Greece wich is from that time outside the Russian  sphere of influence , no mater the strong pro russian feeling of the majority of the Greeks. Russia lost a potensial  ally with access to mediteranian , with lots of importand ports and facilities.


    Last edited by arpakola on Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:32 am; edited 5 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Regular on Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:33 am

    Note to rebels. Never trust Russia

    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  arpakola on Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:38 am

    Regular wrote:Note to rebels. Never trust Russia

    well this is an unfare statement ..
    Im critical aslo .. but I think this is an unfair statement..
    ==========================================

    But I have one comment.
    Someone few posts ago said "why shoul we get involved in the  Donbass mass?

    well .. here is my answer.

    President of Russia is the president of all Russians , living within the RF borders  or outside them

    This is a responsibility that he has .. like it or not.

    In Greece  there are some friends I have from Penestrovia..
    When asked where they are from .. they answer .. WE ARE RUSSIANS..
    (they dont repl;y where are from .. but what they are ..)
    Hope the people in Kremlin take in account those issues..

    =======================================
    the butchers of Donbass

    From the Poroshenko inaguaration. Two modern slave owners

    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s226ia

    =====================================================

    Another day without water in Slaviansk
    .

    Residents take water to drink from a city fountain:


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  zg18 on Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:44 am

    From Croatian forum:

    "Ekonomija u Ukrajini je potpuno riknula, tako mi veli jedan Bjelorus koji ima rodbinu u Ukrajini. KAže tamo ništa skoro više ne radi, država je u općem kaosu I jedino ovaj rat još uvijek zaokuplja pažnju ljudi tako da više misle o tome nego o ekonomiji. Kijevske vlasti čak I da uspostave kkontrolu nad Istokom, tek bi se tada našle u situaciji da nemaju pojma šta da čine I u tome smisklu im ovaj rat I odgovara. Ali ni to neće vječno.

    Rusija ne treba da vojno intervenira ne radi sankcija, njih će biti ovako ili onako, nego zato što se postavlja pitanje a šta nakon toga. Amerikanci su pokušali uvući Rusiju u rat I svojevrsni ruski Vijetnam, a sad se sve više sami uvaljuju jer je kijevska hunta nesposobna za bilo šta. Još uvijek imaju jaču vatrenu moć ali ne zadugo.

    Pobujenici jačaju iz dana u dan.

    Rusija treba sve vojno sposobne izbjeglice lijepo vratiti I predati vlastima Donjecka I Luganska. Amerikanci se već angažiraju sa plaćenicima, sa vojnim savjetnicima, a evo Porošenko već traži I otvorenu vojnu pomoć. Sada treba Amerikancima prirediti ono što su namjeravali Rusiji. A od Ukrajine nema ništa. Definitivno propala I uništena država, još jedna u nizu žrtava američke takozvane geostrategije."

    The economy of Ukraine is completely went dead, said to me one Belorussian who has relatives in Ukraine. Says there is nothing about no longer working, the state in the general chaos and only this war still occupies the attention of people to think more about it than about the economy.

    And even the Kiev authorities to establish control of the East, only to then found themselves in a situation that they have no idea what to do and that in that sense this war suits.
    But even that is not eternal.

    Russia does not need to intervene militarily not sanction them would be one way or another, but because the question and what after that. The Americans have tried to draw Russia into the war I sort of Russian, Vietnam, and now all over themselves this distress because of Kiev junta unfit for anything. We still have a stronger firepower but not for long.
    Rebels are stronger by the day. Russia should all fit nicely refugees to return and surrender to the authorities Donetsk and Luganska.

    Americans are already engaged with mercenaries, with military advisers, and here Porošenko already requested and open military assistance. Now Americans should prepare what they intended to Russia.

    And since Ukraine does nothing. Definitely ruined and destroyed the state, another in a series of American victims of the so-called geo-strategy.

    http://ftp.forum.hr/showpost.php?p=50317573&postcount=8532

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Firebird on Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:57 am

    That baboon Obama (and the word refers to his stupidity and animalistic behaviour, not his race)
    really is a comedy character.

    Perhaps they can remind us. Who was it committed two genocides in Arabia in the last 15 yrs?
    Who was it spied on the presdents/leaders of their closest allies? (which was enough to have Nixon considcered the most

    despicable US president ever, by themselves). And who was it overthrow a democratic European govt and replaced it with Nazis?

    Now that dogshit Warren Buffett is trying to get morons to boycott the World Cup sponsors, so that the World Cup can be taken

    away from Russia. Guess what? America says it will make a "perfect alternative"... Tossers.

    I hope Putin wakes up and smells the coffee. Mass boycotts worldwide of the Evil American Empire's organs of power - MOnsanto, the banks, military companies etc.

    A good target would be all the companies that Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway has big shares in. I think that would include Coca

    cola, Procter and Gamble, Netjets, Amex, Exxon, Walmart, Wells Fargo, IBM, Goldman Sachs, Moodys (hahaha the "non political ratings" company).

    And it wouldn't harm to target Apple, Google, Microsoft. Most people are sick of these rats and their data theft from people.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Firebird on Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:08 am

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

    With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

    I think that Barry's out of touch with reality.

    As far as recognition of poroshenko goes, it was not even intended to do otherwise  Smile

    Thats the Trash York Times. America's trade with Russia is negligible. Imagine Russia refusing to sell the US rockets, titanium etc. JProbably much stronger a sanction than some dodgy software from Microshite.

    If "shut up you spying Kenyan prick" counts as "G7" backing, then I suppose they are backing him to the hilt". Hahaha.

    What I want to see is Russia demand crippling reparations from the US to Iraq and Afghanistan. And to hand over the thousands of scum instrumental in America's war on truth eg the fabricated "WMD" stories etc.

    Many countries, and many MORE citizens would back this campaign.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:53 am

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    arpakola wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Viktor wrote:What do you guys think of these?

    With Group of 7 Backing, Obama Gives Russia One-Month Ukraine Deadline

    I think that Barry's out of touch with reality.

    As far as recognition of poroshenko goes, it was not even intended to do otherwise  Smile

    actually as the recognition case .. I haven't seen  oficial recognition .. but Vlad said.. I respect the desision of Ukranian people.. wich is a n ot straigh forward recognition ..

    Lemmie guess. Putin's fanboy?  Wink 


    That "respect of the decision" is de facto recognition at least. And considering that Russia did not recognize DNR/LNR, if they won't recognize poroshenko, then there would be no one in ukraine to talk with AT ALL, that would be illogical.

    I thought, at lease the English version of that statement by "Putin", was conspicuous in its implication that "respecting" the decision of "Ukrainian people" also included "respecting" the decision of east Ukrainians, and I thought it was, of course, intentionally worded like that, and it was more like a thinly veiled ultimatum.

    With respect to the fixation with and on various individuals, I should highlight the fact that, individuals, especially the ones in the limelight, are only figureheads; they play no controlling role whatsoever; control is exerted by other entities. After all, in Putin's case, just remember how he was installed, replacing Stepashin, and what negative commentary he received in the initial phases of his public existence.

    Also with respect to all of this pro-Putin vs anti-Putin fixation, please remember the evolution the title of this thread went through. I fully expect for some members to soon suggest that the title has to be reverted back to its original form. My suggestion would be to keep a neutral title, specially one that doesn't mention the name of any individuals at all. The reality is that a person in the limelight can never be anything other than a pawn.


    Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:30 pm; edited 3 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:32 am



    The economy of Ukraine is completely went dead, said to me one Belorussian who has relatives in Ukraine. Says there is nothing about no longer working, the state in the general chaos and only this war still occupies the attention of people to think more about it than about the economy.

    And even the Kiev authorities to establish control of the East, only to then found themselves in a situation that they have no idea what to do and that in that sense this war suits.
    But even that is not eternal.

    Russia does not need to intervene militarily not sanction them would be one way or another, but because the question and what after that. The Americans have tried to draw Russia into the war I sort of Russian, Vietnam, and now all over themselves this distress because of Kiev junta unfit for anything. We still have a stronger firepower but not for long.
    Rebels are stronger by the day. Russia should all fit nicely refugees to return and surrender to the authorities Donetsk and Luganska.

    Americans are already engaged with mercenaries, with military advisers, and here Porošenko already requested and open military assistance. Now Americans should prepare what they intended to Russia.

    And since Ukraine does nothing. Definitely ruined and destroyed the state, another in a series of American victims of the so-called geo-strategy.

    Thats exactly my point of view.. the Ukraine Economy IS already dead. and they have to find $3.5 Billions US dollars to pay Russia for its
    Gas on winter. So all Russia needs to do sit down and relax while supplying with weapons and reinforcements Rebels.. and wait Ukraine
    economy to collapse.. once ukraine currency lose its value and everyone unemployed ,they all will Overthrow Poroshenko and all the Pro EU parties and plead Russia to take them back. I give Ukraine 1 more year to collapse. but with luck 2 years.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:32 am

    The economy of Ukraine is completely went dead, said to me one Belorussian who has relatives in Ukraine. Says there is nothing about no longer working, the state in the general chaos and only this war still occupies the attention of people to think more about it than about the economy.

    And even the Kiev authorities to establish control of the East, only to then found themselves in a situation that they have no idea what to do and that in that sense this war suits.
    But even that is not eternal.

    Russia does not need to intervene militarily not sanction them would be one way or another, but because the question and what after that. The Americans have tried to draw Russia into the war I sort of Russian, Vietnam, and now all over themselves this distress because of Kiev junta unfit for anything. We still have a stronger firepower but not for long.
    Rebels are stronger by the day. Russia should all fit nicely refugees to return and surrender to the authorities Donetsk and Luganska.

    Americans are already engaged with mercenaries, with military advisers, and here Porošenko already requested and open military assistance. Now Americans should prepare what they intended to Russia.

    And since Ukraine does nothing. Definitely ruined and destroyed the state, another in a series of American victims of the so-called geo-strategy.

    Thats exactly my point of view.. the Ukraine Economy IS already dead. and they have to find $3.5 Billions US dollars to pay Russia for its
    Gas on winter. So all Russia needs to do sit down and relax while supplying with weapons and reinforcements Rebels.. and wait Ukraine
    economy to collapse.. once ukraine currency lose its value and everyone unemployed ,they all will Overthrow Poroshenko and all the Pro EU parties and plead Russia to take them back. I give Ukraine 1 more year to collapse. but with luck 2 years.

    So i expect to see massive defections from the Ukraine Army ,but also police ,and most of them will want to join Russia army like Crimea..
    all cities from odessa to Kharkiv to Rebel and seek to become part of Russia. While that happens , all Russia can do is arm the Rebels so they can defend their zones . The only thing that worry me more ..is the lack of water and electricity in the east. Russia  will need to send trucks with water with or withoutkiev permission.. soon.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  arpakola on Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:13 am


    Jerzy Dziewulski, a former commander of the first Polish anti-terrorist team, said Russian claims that he trains anti-separatist Ukrainian forces are a "motherfcuking lie

    (who can beleave him ..)




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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:23 am

    I thought it would be worth copying and pasting a translation by an mp.ret user ( Exclamation ) of a post from another forum.

    SomeName wrote:Interesting take on the Russian plans in Ukraine from http://rsdn.ru/forum/flame.politics/...8.flat#5636948

    Google translate:

    1. Why Russia "saber-rattling" at the beginning of the conflict in the Donbas, and then stopped? Initially, the goal was to settle on the spot and Kiev could promptly stop it all. Therefore, the introduction of Russian troops threatened to the point yet considered that "militia" firmly stuck in place.
    2. Development of the conflict should be smooth to look like a natural, that's why serious armed (MANPADS, anti-launchers, mortars) may not appear immediately.
    3. Current task - to establish a channel of supply troops Novorossia column will therefore humanitarian aid to the victims of Russia. That's why now speaks of refugees, opened Ukrainian border. By establishing a supply will be a sharp increase in the number of army Novorossia 10-20 thousand fighters.
    4. Next problem - wear down Ukraine, as ahead of further collapse hryvnia, a sharp economic downturn. Plus the lack of funds for the normal supply of the Ukrainian army. All this will allow for 5-7 months and demoralize the army. At this point the army should get stronger Novorossia and go on the offensive.
    5. Ultimate goal - a reconstruction independent Novorossia friendly.
    Other Ukraine loses access to the sea, will not have borders with Russia, has no industry and ekportnyh goods will not be able to override the "pipe." In this form, or what Ukraine is losing value for Russia and we are at it "hammered" - it becomes of importance on a par with Moldova. It also "clog" the EU and the U.S., so in the end returned to Ukraine yourself adequate state (Georgia).

    SomeName wrote:In short,

    1. Initial threatening of Kiev with Russian army until the resistance is firmly in place and strong enough to withstand against Ukrainian army. Now that the NOD forces are strong enough the Russian army is no longer needed and withdrawn.
    2. Gradual introduction of heavy and more sophisticated weapons to the NOD ars.e.nal.
    3. Establishing the chain of supply thru the border, opening the border with Russia (done). Sharp increase in the number of fighters in NOD army, both from local and outside volunteers. Many training camps are established currently both in Donetsk and Luhansk republics. Number of volunteers 10-20+ thousands.
    4. Wear down Ukraine economically, demoralize its army, and eventually get on the offensive against it. Win the war globally, free whole Novorossia.
    5. Ultimate goal - reconstruction whole South-Eastern Ukraine as new friendly entity, Novorossia.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Firebird on Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:04 pm

    Interesting. I can follow the logic.
    But.. I just think its baffling to see Russia NOT go on the offensive vs the media laws, vs the slaughter of innocent people. ANd seeing a coup and all the bullshit develop in the 1st place.

    Lets hope the full 24m of the S East would be in Novorossiya. There's also the issue of who would control Kiev. And whether the rest can remain militarily neutral or whatever.

    One of the best option for messed up areas is actually re-Russification ie the settlement of pro Russians in pyschologically poisoned areas. But things are a long way from that in much of the Ukr currently.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:11 pm

    Indeed, that is a nice brief summary of how things have proceeded so far and how they might proceed in the future.
    It is basically Putin's "Plan A".
    In case "Plan A" fails...I guess "Plan B" is military involvement.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:51 pm

    Firebird wrote:Interesting. I can follow the logic.
    But.. I just think its baffling to see Russia NOT go on the offensive vs the media laws, vs the slaughter of innocent people. ANd seeing a coup and all the bullshit develop in the 1st place.

    Lets hope the full 24m of the S East would be in Novorossiya. There's also the issue of who would control Kiev. And whether the rest can remain militarily neutral or whatever.

    One of the best option for messed up areas is actually re-Russification ie the settlement of pro Russians in pyschologically poisoned areas. But things are a long way from that in much of the Ukr currently.

    At least through induction, you are suggesting a comprehensive solution to all of the humanities problems. I think that would happen, but only at the end of the "world war", possibly embodied in a new world order.

    The "Ukranian situation" is not the only situation that needs fixing.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:58 pm

    SomeName wrote:Marinovka is under NOD control now.

    The story about this fight is very controversial. Ukr forces boasted they won a fight, and showed burned Ural and suspiciously intact NOD BTR (number 37), but the checkpoint looked empty and heavily damaged, and no bodies nor blood were shown.
    Also, check this destroyed Ural (more photos here http://rusvesna.su/news/1402050839 ).

    It looks completely intact with only burning trucks. Very suspicious. It looks staged.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  arpakola on Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:41 pm

    a card that could have been playd , and no mentioned so far is Luky.

    What if the supp;y is not comming from Russia but from BeloRus?

    What even if Luky was activly involved to break the seage of Slavyansk with some SUs..
    What would happen ?
    Impose sanctions on Luky ? Idea 

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  medo on Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:49 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    The economy of Ukraine is completely went dead, said to me one Belorussian who has relatives in Ukraine. Says there is nothing about no longer working, the state in the general chaos and only this war still occupies the attention of people to think more about it than about the economy.

    And even the Kiev authorities to establish control of the East, only to then found themselves in a situation that they have no idea what to do and that in that sense this war suits.
    But even that is not eternal.

    Russia does not need to intervene militarily not sanction them would be one way or another, but because the question and what after that. The Americans have tried to draw Russia into the war I sort of Russian, Vietnam, and now all over themselves this distress because of Kiev junta unfit for anything. We still have a stronger firepower but not for long.
    Rebels are stronger by the day. Russia should all fit nicely refugees to return and surrender to the authorities Donetsk and Luganska.

    Americans are already engaged with mercenaries, with military advisers, and here Porošenko already requested and open military assistance. Now Americans should prepare what they intended to Russia.

    And since Ukraine does nothing. Definitely ruined and destroyed the state, another in a series of American victims of the so-called geo-strategy.

    Thats exactly my point of view.. the Ukraine Economy IS already dead. and they have to find $3.5 Billions US dollars to pay Russia for its
    Gas on winter. So all Russia needs to do sit down and relax while supplying with weapons and reinforcements Rebels.. and wait Ukraine
    economy to collapse.. once ukraine currency lose its value and everyone unemployed ,they all will Overthrow Poroshenko and all the Pro EU parties and plead Russia to take them back. I give Ukraine 1 more year to collapse. but with luck 2 years.

    Here is the point. I think Poroshenko well know, that Ukraine and himself as president could not survive without east Ukraine and help from Russia and this is why he will negotiate with Russia and with Novorussia to find a path from the crisis. I agree with you, Poroshenko will be most probably overthrown before the year end, but not from Russia or seps, but from new US backed revolution in Maidan. After fall of Poroshenko you could expect full civil war there and than will be the right time for Russian military intervention.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:55 pm

    medo wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:

    The economy of Ukraine is completely went dead, said to me one Belorussian who has relatives in Ukraine. Says there is nothing about no longer working, the state in the general chaos and only this war still occupies the attention of people to think more about it than about the economy.

    And even the Kiev authorities to establish control of the East, only to then found themselves in a situation that they have no idea what to do and that in that sense this war suits.
    But even that is not eternal.

    Russia does not need to intervene militarily not sanction them would be one way or another, but because the question and what after that. The Americans have tried to draw Russia into the war I sort of Russian, Vietnam, and now all over themselves this distress because of Kiev junta unfit for anything. We still have a stronger firepower but not for long.
    Rebels are stronger by the day. Russia should all fit nicely refugees to return and surrender to the authorities Donetsk and Luganska.

    Americans are already engaged with mercenaries, with military advisers, and here Porošenko already requested and open military assistance. Now Americans should prepare what they intended to Russia.

    And since Ukraine does nothing. Definitely ruined and destroyed the state, another in a series of American victims of the so-called geo-strategy.

    Thats exactly my point of view.. the Ukraine Economy IS already dead. and they have to find $3.5 Billions US dollars to pay Russia for its
    Gas on winter. So all Russia needs to do sit down and relax while supplying with weapons and reinforcements Rebels.. and wait Ukraine
    economy to collapse.. once ukraine currency lose its value and everyone unemployed ,they all will Overthrow Poroshenko and all the Pro EU parties and plead Russia to take them back. I give Ukraine 1 more year to collapse. but with luck 2 years.

    Here is the point. I think Poroshenko well know, that Ukraine and himself as president could not survive without east Ukraine and help from Russia and this is why he will negotiate with Russia and with Novorussia to find a path from the crisis. I agree with you, Poroshenko will be most probably overthrown before the year end, but not from Russia or seps, but from new US backed revolution in Maidan. After fall of Poroshenko you could expect full civil war there and than will be the right time for Russian military intervention.

    Yeah right, that's wishful thinking.  Are you trying to kid us, or just yourself?  Because that is outright laughable assumption.  Poroshenko will do whatever it takes to get back his 'lost' territory and he will get backing and funding from US in order to stay as their lapdog.  Already Biden donated $50 M to Poroshenko for 'winning' elections.  Apparently that is considered appropriate (gee, I just do not know how this isn't considered conflict of interest) while he puts his son in as a CEO of a major Ukrainian Gas company.  Medo, Poroshenko is the US puppet, and there won't be another maiden because this is the guy they wanted in power.  He is now threatening to try and "take back" Crimea.  Only way he can do that is through war, and we know that Ukraine has no military capabilities to stand up to Russia.  Only US, and if that is the case, then US will attempt to seize it.

    Putin showed his complete idiocy and weakness regarding Ukraine.  If you can do it once, you can do it again.  He will show it again if US attacks Crimea and kills people and Russia wont do a thing.  Why? Because Putin is a cowered and should be overthrown himself and a real leader should step in.

    I think Russia's greatness is now at an end. Simply put, too many westerners in that country pushing their agenda. It just seems so odd that Russia is rarely responding to sanctions and threats. I bet it is because Oligarches in Russia are putting pressure on Putin not to do anything as they are the ones ruling the country now it seems. Not Putin. They should all be hanged.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  medo on Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:21 pm

    Poroshenko is an opportunist, not a nazi. He was in both governments, Yushenko's and Yanukovich's governments. But one thing is to be in a shadow and make a profit, but the other to be on top as president, where everything depend on you yourself. He is now responsible for 46 millions of his citizens, to secure them jobs and payments. Talk is cheap and he have to say few things to make those around happy, but reality is bitter. US will not give them money for free, but they will have to pay it back. They could earn money only with selling products to customers and the main customer is in Russia and majority of products they sell are produced in eastern part of Ukraine. Poroshenko doesn't have many options left. He know well, that only option for his survival is in negotiations with Russia and eastern Ukraine and he also say this between the lines. He could not survive without eastern Ukraine and military actions only alienate them from Kiev. He is president since yesterday, so we will see, what will be his moves. Before it was still Turchinov, who leaded operations.

    And why should Putin do exactly what Obama and US neocons want him to do and bite in a trap US place in Ukraine?

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