The Situation in the Ukraine. #1

Hey, there are many Putin supporters here, maybe they can illustrate his genius Wink .

Should have just stood and watched from the sidelines. Would have been much better for Russia IMO.

Our grand strategists had to know how Europe would respond. Should have just pushed for Crimean referendum.

Hahahaha... the coup leaders in the Ukraine would never have allowed a fair referendum to allow the people of the Crimea to decide their fate... it is like votes to join the EU... keep holding them and keep the media blitz on the population till they vote the way you want them to.

Once the rigged vote is counted and Crimea decides to become a permanent part of the Ukraine they will tear up the lease for the Black Sea Fleet and tell the Russian Navy to leave... by then it will be too late to send in the troops and NATO will have moved its next chess piece into position right on Russias border.

the Russians are never going to come out the good guys no matter what they do, so why play such stupid games.

As mentioned above the US has done far worse than this on multiple occasions... this is what big powerful countries do. Claiming the UN should be able to stop it is like claiming the UN should have been able to stop US invasions all over the world... that is not what the UN is for.

I don't want to see any actual invasion of anywhere, but if Russian troops stationed in the Crimea can protect the local population from the armed men and women that are behind this coup then that is a good thing in my opinion.

From what I have read Ukrainian soldiers in the Crimea are handing over weapons to the Russian forces so this could be a bloodless transition period perhaps till a free and fair referendum can be organised.

I just hope we dont reach there and things are resolved amicably.

Having said that I envy China .......Obama would never say any such threats against China  

Tymoshenko dismisses prospects of Russian-Ukrainian talks as hopeless
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_03_03/Tymoshenko-dismisses-prospects-of-Russian-Ukrainian-talks-as-hopeless-5105/

Former Ukrainian Prime Minister and leader of the Batkivshchyna party Yulia Tymoshenko sees no point in talks between Russia and Ukraine. This was published on the Batkivshchyna website on 2 March.



According to Tymoshenko, talks between the two countries make no sense because Russia’s main aim is to achieve Ukraine’s full capitulation.

In the ex-prime minister’s opinion, the reason for Russia’s military aggression is that, as a result of the European revolution, Ukraine has won freedom and independence from Yanukovych’s regime subordinated to Russia. In Tymoshenko’s words, the Russian authorities want to annex Ukraine by force of arms, carry out a coup d’etat in the country and return the dictatorship.

USAID got Maidan coup up and running – media

The US online whistleblower magazine Pando has leaked documents that suggest the American government in the form of US Agency for International Development (USAID) could have played the role of force multiplier in the overthrow of Ukraine’s President Viktor Yanukovych, having funded a host of opposition groups prior to the revolution.

Pando published financial documents, showing numerous funding entries for NGO activities across Ukraine, including in Poltava, Vinnytsia, Zhytomyr, Ternopil, Sumy, and elsewhere, mostly in the Ukrainian-speaking west and center. The list also names US-based contributors, such as billionaire George Soros, eBay founder Pierre Omidyar and his Omidyar Network foundation, as well as the National Endowment for Democracy, which is funded largely by the US Congress.

According to the leaked papers, a network of interlocking NGOs– Chesno (Honestly), Center UA and Stop Censorship, to name a few – were growing in influence in Ukraine by “targeting pro-Yanukovych politicians with a well-coordinated anti-corruption campaign that built its strength in Ukraine’s regions, before massing in Kiev last autumn.”

The fundraising papers show that from October 2011 to December 2012 USAID provided Chesno with a hefty sum of over $421,000, while also planting nine of Center UA experts on its staff whose duty it was to manage the NGO's affairs on the regional level, coordinate its efforts, provide photo and video coverage, as well as creative input.

Hence, it may well be that the activities of Chesno, which bills itself as a civil watchdog movement bent on “filtering the power,” received a large percentage of funds from American taxpayers under the watchful eye of the US Agency for International Development.

Chesno was set up on 29 October 2011 as part of the “Let's Filter the Parliament in 24 hours” campaign, which happened just as the Ukrainian opposition was discussing a unified structure in a bid to consolidate its efforts. Its public face was Oleg Rybachuk, a prominent politician in the country and the right-hand man to Orange Revolution figurehead Viktor Yushchenko.

It was reported earlier that the Maidan unrest in the late 2013 drew large scores of western foreigners in Ukraine’s capital Kiev, including the so-called “mercenaries” from the United States, Germany and Poland.

“There weren’t many Russians there, compared to some 60 people from the United States, around 30 and up to 50 Germans, as well as Poles, Turks and many others,” one of the participants, who identified himself as Vladimir, confessed.

The heavily fortified Maidan camp in Kiev’s Independence Square was the flashpoint of the anti-Yanukovych uprising. It attracted some of the most prominent, if not exactly controversial, public people from the West. Among them were US Republican Senators John McCain and Ryan Murphy. McCain promised protesters the support of the American nation and quoted the 19th-century Ukrainian poet Taras Shevchenko in his podium speech.

Another Maidan guest was US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland hand in hand with the US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey R. Pyatt. The US couple met with top insurgents and gave out cookies to the hungering crowd.

Thank you Austin for that piece of news. This does not come as a surprise since USAID funded opposition in Moscow. Hilary Clinton admited it.

Late Realiasation ......but neverthless good

British FM Hague says Russia is entitled to have troops and naval forces at its bases in Crimea

British Foreign Secretary William Hague said that Russia is entitled to have troops and naval forces at its bases in the Crimea during his visit to Ukrane. He also said that the crisis in Ukraine is "the biggest crisis in Europe in the 21 century."

Hague said that Russia now had operational control of Ukraine's Crimea region and that while Russia had the legal right to base troops in the region, the Kremlin should order them to return to their barracks. He aslo urged Ukraine and Russia to hold talks.

"Clearly we are very concerned about any possibly of a further move by Russia in other parts of Ukraine but that does not mean the position in the Crimea is stable," Hague told the BBC in an interview.

Austin wrote:I am still worried about Economic Sanctions and how it will impact.

I expect the Superjet and MS-21 program will be impacted.

If they did that, then the Russians will cut off Titanium to the 787, close down the Boeing R&D station in their country, etc...
i.e. They probably won't do that

Rouble will go on free fall requiring intervention from CB leading to burning of precious Forex.

Russia economy in bad state will get impacted.

Big danger is the fall of the rouble, albeit it was falling before anyway.

Russian Assets abroad will be frozen and so will any investement from West.

Doubt it will go that far; that would amount to economic warfare.

I'd expect political & economic sanctions on Russian politicians more likely

Is that a worthy trade off ?[/quote]

Haha :-D It's hilarious to see worlds reaction. How impotent NATO is to even show their muscle. But very good news for us who want to see more militarized Europe. Russia is the glue that keeps us together a common threat.

What makes me wonder why Ukrainian army doesn't respond?
They already got international support and all the blood spilled will be useful for then. Russian forces in Crimea seem to be light and could face problems. Ukrainians can be good at protecting their air space for some time as well. Even if they start shooting first or ambush polite convoy they would still be considered victims.
But maybe Ukrainians don't have organisation to pull it off? Maybe west has to send their own people to do it for them and pretend it's local tatars or ukrainians.
Russians stuck in armed conflict next to their border could be perfect proxy war for ze west

Regular wrote:Haha :-D It's hilarious to see worlds reaction. How impotent NATO is to even show their muscle. But very good news for us who want to see more militarized Europe. Russia is the glue that keeps us together a common threat.

Good Luck with that , EU economy is bankrupt and matter of time they will crumble

Austin wrote:

Regular wrote:Haha :-D It's hilarious to see worlds reaction. How impotent NATO is to even show their muscle. But very good news for us who want to see more militarized Europe. Russia is the glue that keeps us together a common threat.

Good Luck with that , EU economy is bankrupt and matter of time they will crumble

Maybe economic militarism is the answer? Nazi germany was bankrupt as well.
And someone mentioned western snipers in Kiev. Why couldn't they start false flag against marines? Sure it will be blamed on Ukrainians. It's the only way west can really damage russia with the cost of few non member lives

Regular wrote:

Austin wrote:

Regular wrote:Haha :-D It's hilarious to see worlds reaction. How impotent NATO is to even show their muscle. But very good news for us who want to see more militarized Europe. Russia is the glue that keeps us together a common threat.

Good Luck with that , EU economy is bankrupt and matter of time they will crumble

Maybe economic militarism is the answer? Nazi germany was bankrupt as well.
And someone mentioned western snipers in Kiev. Why couldn't they start false flag against marines? Sure it will be blamed on Ukrainians. It's the only way west can really damage russia with the cost of few non member lives

Nazi Germany funded their economy by taking almost unimaginable loans from abroad (coz they knew there will be war, so they, presumably, wouldn't have to return them anyway)

 Economic militarism... especially with constantly falling military spending in EU. 

It's falling because of idiotic pussy mentality and faux pacifism imposed by pink socialist policies in the EU. But conventional war raging in the NATO armpit would make even Brussels fag think about it. Europe could follow Us steps and start plunder middle east or africa. French have good army and they are doing just that. I'm not cheering for this, it's just my nihilistic opinion about possible future.

Regular wrote:It's falling because of such pink socialist policies in the EU. But conventional war raging in the NATO armpit would make even Brussels fag think about it. Europe could follow Us steps and start plunder middle east or africa. French have good army and they are doing just that. I'm not cheering for this, it's just my nihilistic opinion about possible future.

There's too much hype surrounding all this. There will be no escalation.
The only reason for west's angry words is that their newly found BBB in Kiev are crumbling.






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Remember this words, Ukraine military will not fire upon russian forces, the only who most probably will fire are either stupid fascists who have such a low IQ that they don't understand that they are RUSSIANS and most probably there will be a false flag attack by USA against Ukraine or Russia or both to escalate it.

USA has done it in EVERY single war they were responsible for. Not a single war were US had its hands involved was started without a False Flag attack

With civilians surrounding those Russian soldiers, even "stupid fascists" will have to think twice before shooting, for their own sake.


Hey, I have a question. Now, we all know, that plenty of Ukrainian bases in Crimea have been blockaded. Does anyone know, if their water supplies have been cut-off or not?

But it would be idiotic not to use such opportunity. It would even validate illegitimate maidanists. I hope i'm wrong, but apart from refugee stream there would be no negatives

etaepsilonk wrote:With civilians surrounding those Russian soldiers, even "stupid fascists" will have to think twice before shooting for their own sake.

The big Problem is, with Russia Today Newsnetwork, Putin has broken the ironcurt of mainstream russophobic medias with their constant lies and diabolizing russia and keeping quite about US and all atrocities and all coups they start around the world, killing millions for oil and so on. Russia is a big image problem to the western world and that is why they really need to damage russias good reputation in the world due false flags.

First the smeer campaign that russia invades little peaceful georgia and now smeer campaign of Putin marchs 24/7 hours around ukrainian govt. adminstration and tells people what to do, the dictator putin... you know the lies. Western people are so stupid and so guillable that they truelly believe Yanukowich is a dictator who was set in power by putin himself, who set himself to power without beeing elected.
The eastern countries have more democracy than the west has seen since at least 3 decades. No one was ever elected in EU Central Bank, neither in Euro Stability Mechanism Commitee but still all EU countries have to bow and pay taxes that will never be used to payback debts or reviving bad economies in poor countries, this money is only used to pay banks not for anything else.

They  print money give it to a homeless and tell him now give it back, that is exactly what EU is.

USA will tryhard to escalate the situation, you will see some attempts, maybe even bombs or at least use of a weapon that only a military can have to make it clear, the russian bear wants bloodshed.

It is the same story over and over again.

Regular wrote:Haha :-D It's hilarious to see worlds reaction. How impotent NATO is to even show their muscle.
But very good news for us who want to see more militarized Europe. Russia is the glue that keeps us together a common threat.

It is indeed. But not because you're in danger of being attacked by Russia.
It is because YOU'RE CONSTANTLY WARNED BY YOUR SUPPOSED FRIENDS THAT YOU'RE IN DANGER FROM RUSSIA.
This stuff is pure gold! Pure gold!
You're nothing but puppets...bargaining chips...like we are here in the Balkans.
Only made to feel important at NATO meetings for hand-raising and marketing purposes.

You think NATO will protect you?! Think again!
American soldiers are going to be sacrificed because of Lithuanians?!
Sorry to burst your bubble here - but it only works the other way around. Unless you've got something to offer in return, you're pretty much on your own.
But even if it did - how exactly will NATO protect you is the real question. With today's weapons much of Lithuania will not even take the first hour of a shooting war to destroy. But, you still may find solace in the fact that your NATO friends will MAYBE avenge your death, but you'll be very dead to see it happen.

I keep seeing this pattern over and over again. Nations are pitted against each other by not giving them enough breathing space, they are constantly being bombarded with paranoia, stories and anecdotes from the past...Different NGOs sponsor different points of opinion - only to agree on ONE THING: THAT YOUR ONLY WAY FORWARD IS NATO AND THE EU. You lose a great deal in the process, your country gets bought for peanuts, and you're basically a slave nation for someone to play with at will...but hey, at least now you've got you Macs and iPhones...so it can't be that bad...can it?!

flamming_python wrote:Big danger is the fall of the rouble, albeit it was falling before anyway.

No it won't . Compare the conversion rate of the Japanese Yen to the US$ and then compare the value of the Rouble to the US$ .

Fall in the value of local currency hurts those countries that have to foot a huge import bill & has very little to export .

However, this condition does not apply to Russia . Countries like China , India and Japan have to spend a fortune in buying oil , Russia doesn't .

What this fall in the value of the rouble will do is that it will make exports from Russia cheaper .

Just last month Toyota closed down it's car manufacturing facility in Australia ? Why ? Not because the Australian $ is falling but because the Australian $ is so expensive that it makes no sense to build cars at such high rates .

Alternatively , Russia can start selling US treasury securities or US$ from it's own reserve .

@macedonian
Did I say otherwise?
I partly agree. But we are not georgians. Morale is pretty damn high and we don't fuck around in army. We have only one task. Stay functional for atleast a month. How well it would work in real life, well I bet more than what georgians did. Don't forget about poles too

I some how get this feeling that something good may not come out of this for Russia.   

Not sure what Putin thought when he did this ......better to get soldiers back to Black Sea Fleet base. ......cut the loss as traders say.

Austin wrote:I some how get this feeling that something good may not come out of this for Russia.   

Not sure what Putin thought when he did this ......better to get soldiers back to Black Sea Fleet base. ......cut the loss as traders say.

I have the same feeling.
Can only hope that they actually thought this through...but I'm repeating myself.

One thing that comes to mind, and could possibly make him come on top, is if he shares some seriously damaging Intel that would make 'the west' go into defensive mode. A real nuke intelligence that 'd show that he was right to do this.
But for the life of me - I can't think what that might be.

Regular wrote:@macedonian
Did I say otherwise?
I partly agree. But we are not georgians. Morale is pretty damn high and we don't fuck around in army. We have only one task. Stay functional for atleast a month. How well it would work in real life, well I bet more than what georgians did. Don't forget about poles too

Regular, no offense, but the Lithuanian army won't stand 12 hours against a Russian armoured offensive. It would be rapidly split and divided, what will happen is that units will be completely cut-off, comms, etc... would be compromised or disabled by EW, etc...
And then what Lithuanian soldiers will do next is their business; try and escape encirclement, blend into civilian population and wage a partisan war, surrender, etc...

Morale is simply a function of how fucked you are. Yes, training and discipline helps, but mainly while there is some sort of front to keep, while you are sure that your country can keep on fighting and that others are fighting with you, etc...
If you are completely overrun; confusion will reign and that's when morale will drop.

About the Georgians; they were doing rather well at least for the first 12 hours until Russia sent in its forces; then they started getting nervous; but they only completely broke when command itself gave the order for them to just leg it back to Tbilisi; armoured vehicles were simply left abandoned, etc... the collapse of the front and confusion is what actually drove the soldiers to panic; not the battles with Russian forces.

Regular wrote:Haha :-D It's hilarious to see worlds reaction. How impotent NATO is to even show their muscle. But very good news for us who want to see more militarized Europe. Russia is the glue that keeps us together a common threat.

What makes me wonder why Ukrainian army doesn't respond?
They already got international support and all the blood spilled will be useful for then. Russian forces in Crimea seem to be light and could face problems. Ukrainians can be good at protecting their air space for some time as well. Even if they start shooting first or ambush polite convoy they would still be considered victims.
But maybe Ukrainians don't have organisation to pull it off? Maybe west has to send their own people to do it for them and pretend it's local tatars or ukrainians.
Russians stuck in armed conflict next to their border could be perfect proxy war for ze west

Why the hell do you want that anyway?

Why do you need a common threat? If you want a common threat - look to the US, not to Russia.
Really you are being played like sheep; sure Russia reacted wrongly, but it was reacting, not instigating. If all of Europe, Russia, Ukraine, etc... has to suffer every time the US & EU decide on a new risky revolution/adventure/whatever close to Russian borders - then you should draw some conclusions from that.

yeah, the buffer states are being played for suckers here. Also, military-wise it would be hard to compete with russia, in case of a real war
there would be no holding back- pray that russia has replaced most of its tac nukes with PGMs since these weapons would be used very liberally.
Also I doubt that there would be that much of a resistance- no offence- but even if you are the most ardent patriot you would see that its much better to step out of the way of the upcoming carnage than put up a fight. These guys wont be messing around with occupying stuff anyway- theyll be like a mongol horde going after anyone who even dares to resist.