RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

India is negotiating the purchase of Sprut-SDM1 light tanks from Russia

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Indian smut with the Rafale fighter. That's what it means to give up MiGs!
Yesterday
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3 min.
Fresh fighters from France are not built so quickly.  photo: yandex pictures.
Fresh fighters from France are not built so quickly. photo: yandex pictures.
Military experts in India followed the lead of some Middle East trend - Egypt and Qatar bought several new fighters from France under the nickname "Rafale". Well, here, and the Indian specialists wanted the same - they fell for this "cranberry" bait advertised by the countries of the Middle East.


For ten years, the Indians were looking for and deciding how to further develop their aircraft military fleet. It is known that combat aircraft are also becoming obsolete, and now, the time has come to abandon the outdated MiG-21 bis.

India could buy the MiG-35 from Russia. But the representatives of this country are not looking for easy ways, and in 2016 they decided to make a deal with France. Moreover, at first India wanted to get more than one hundred and twenty aircraft. Indian military specialists wanted to purchase 18 aircraft directly from France, and build the remaining one hundred odd ones at their aviation center in Bangalore under license - assembling from components. They have already done this when working with Russian partners. But the French, even those cunning types - they refused to hand over the assembly documentation and other things to the Indians.

As a result, the minister of defense of the warm country, Parrikar, announced that 36 Rafal aircraft would be purchased, and the rest of this agreement was swept aside. Everything seems to be fine and everything is clear.

Here is such a French-Indian airplane.  photo: yandex pictures.
Here is such a French-Indian airplane. photo: yandex pictures.
On July 29, 2020, the first batch of Rafale aircraft from France arrived at the Ambala airbase in India. Five fighters. Three doubles and two singles. The planes flew for two days from Bordeaux, through the UAE (intermediate landing) and even refueled in the air. The delivery time was delayed by two months due to the same pandemic. Several more aircraft remain in France and are being completed. But as you know, work at the plant stopped all because of the same pandemic.

The deal between the countries for 36 aircraft is $ 8.7 billion.

The price of the Rafale fighter with weapons and maintenance for India is about 218 million euros. Russian aircraft SU-35. go for export for 75 million.

And the planes, 18 pieces, should be delivered in February 2021. But the French do not have time to build and the gap is already great. With this deal, India was trying to gain an advantage in the skies over China, with which relations in the north of the country are strained.

As a result of the French "lazy building" planes, a debate has flared up in the Indian Parliament about who lobbied for this deal with France. And who from her, most likely, "got money" in the form of kickbacks. Talk about corruption in the highest military circles has surfaced!

And so, when the first Rafal aircraft arrived on the Indian land, and their servicing began, it turned out during the current autumn that the refueling of these aircraft in the air is extremely specific. And for this, it will be necessary to acquire, in addition, several large refueling aircraft, all from France. This means that India will again be "divorced" for money!

In short - with the French "Raphael" the Indians have some "smut".
Now they are surreptitiously squinting towards the Russian MiG-35s. and would be ready to pick them up, which is called "with hands and feet." But now the contract with the French cannot be broken - there are familiar inserts between the lines about compensation in case of a break in the contract. And these payoffs are also prohibitively large.

So the Indians got into trouble with the purchase of fighters from France. And it seems that this mess will not be cleared up soon:
https://zen.yandex.ru/media/vica2882/indiiskie-golovniaki-s-istrebitelem-rafale-vot-chto-znachit-otkazatsia-ot-migov-5fd2de58d2a6c44c4a77fa89

Looks like India still has the chance to do the right thing. Call it quits on the Rafale deal at 36 aircraft. That leaves an 84+ aircraft hole that needs to be filled. That's enough to make a Mig 35 plant worthwhile.

While they are at it , they should make a deal for su 57 production too.

They should pull off when they had disagreement with Dassalt about domestical assembly. But they keep pushing it and end up got an abserd deal. Cancel the deal now will cost them serious money and give those french a big free lunch.

How can they purchase a plane without testing it with their tankers? That is massive incompetence.

It seems Rafale have diferent refueling complex than Mirage-2000, which was compatible with Il-78. Now India have to buy extra Airbus tankers just for Rafales and they will not be compatible with the rest of the fleet of MiGs and Sukhois. Coruption and incompetence. We sow the results in Balakot clash. Total failure. I hope this embarasment bring Indian air force to their minds, that they start to reorganize their whole structure into actualy working one.

Heads should be rolling by now, this is actually a good opportunity to remove some rotten apples from the Indian defence establishment. If they don't do it given this huge scandal, then it means they are corrupt beyond recovery...

LMFS wrote:Heads should be rolling by now, this is actually a good opportunity to remove some rotten apples from the Indian defence establishment. If they don't do it given this huge scandal, then it means they are corrupt beyond recovery...

We've been hearing nonsense about how they have to diversify from Russia's MIC, but their desk-jockey generals have royally fucked up rule 1 of military procurement: Don't fuck up the logistics/supply lines! While in peace time they need to get this shit in order so it doesn't get ugly during times of war.

Are we talking actual new tanker planes here or just IL-78's with a different hose ?

Everyone knew that India was asking for trouble with this buy. But this exceeded expectations lol

Backman wrote:Are we talking actual new tanker planes here or just IL-78's with a different hose ?

Everyone knew that India was asking for trouble with this buy. But this exceeded expectations lol

Have no idea, however I see the salty Escar-Gauls have contractional bindings/stipulations for breaking the contract. If I remember correctly the French-ticklers broke the Mistral contract, maybe Russia could be brought in to threaten to resume suing French-ticklers for not delivering the Mistrals. Even if they've been (woefully) compensated and arbitration courts throw out the Russian lawsuit, India can open a corruption lawsuit within India suing France, in which they could swiftly slap a 25 or 50 year ban on France from entering the Indian market if they don't cooperate.

magnumcromagnon wrote:
Have no idea, however I see the salty Escar-Gauls have contractional bindings/stipulations for breaking the contract. If I remember correctly the French-ticklers broke the Mistral contract, maybe Russia could be brought in to threaten to resume suing French-ticklers for not delivering the Mistrals. Even if they've been (woefully) compensated and arbitration courts throw out the Russian lawsuit, India can open a corruption lawsuit within India suing France, in which they could swiftly slap a 25 or 50 year ban on France from entering the Indian market if they don't cooperate.

You have noo idea how well Russia did on getting out of the Mistral deal. The compensation was great they got  TON of IP and the US paid for the whole thing...AND they US paid for the ships to be given to the Egyptians. All in the name of being tough on Russia. Now they are building Russian Mistrals...

Backman wrote:Are we talking actual new tanker planes here or just IL-78's with a different hose ?

Everyone knew that India was asking for trouble with this buy. But this exceeded expectations lol

I still find this hard to believe they have to operate with NATO tankers, the Egyptians and Quatris bought them.

Backman wrote:Are we talking actual new tanker planes here or just IL-78's with a different hose ?

Everyone knew that India was asking for trouble with this buy. But this exceeded expectations lol

India have to buy 6 new Airbus A330MRTT for Rafales.

Wow, I thought buying Rafales was a mistake, but didn't realise they screwed them this badly.

Normally the Indians are very very careful going over contracts and nitpick them for years before signing... sounds like a good bribe was paid and the deal was signed...

I would say the best result for India is to look at the contract and work out the best solution they can get.

At the end of the day that might just be buying all 36 planes and using them as a special unit somewhere where they don't need inflight refuelling... no point spending good money after bad.

I would say what I said during the MMRCA competition... local production of 250 MiG-29M2s and say 50 MiG-35s.... that would create a good aircraft base that replaces all the MiG-21s, and some good quality base level multirole aircraft that can replace the 21s and the 27s and the Jaguars that they might still have in service...

Now that they have the Rafales they need to get value for money... perhaps the radar and IRST might be of interest to the Russians... by accident of course and if anything was revealed then of course certain people would be punished... I believe the punishment for terrorism is being sent to a tropical island... and when released for getting pregnant a heros welcome back home...

India shouldn't waste its time trying to build big ticket high priced weapons, it should be looking at getting technologies in medicine or in fields it can use at home to boost quality of life and economic conditions in its country... building its own state of the art fighter planes is not something they will make billions on in the export market... for a start they will be competing against the countries whose planes they bought...

Perhaps improved farming technology and investment, improved education and access to healthcare and solutions for extreme poverty... things they could use and things they could also export to countries where the poor have no real support around the world... like the US...

mnztr wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:
Have no idea, however I see the salty Escar-Gauls have contractional bindings/stipulations for breaking the contract. If I remember correctly the French-ticklers broke the Mistral contract, maybe Russia could be brought in to threaten to resume suing French-ticklers for not delivering the Mistrals. Even if they've been (woefully) compensated and arbitration courts throw out the Russian lawsuit, India can open a corruption lawsuit within India suing France, in which they could swiftly slap a 25 or 50 year ban on France from entering the Indian market if they don't cooperate.

You have noo idea how well Russia did on getting out of the Mistral deal. The compensation was great they got  TON of IP and the US paid for the whole thing...AND they US paid for the ships to be given to the Egyptians. All in the name of being tough on Russia. Now they are building Russian Mistrals...

The idea the Mistrals were bad, but their IP is good is terrible contradictory logic. It can't be both! I remember clowns saying that Russia's will be getting the IP for a lifting platform mechanism from Mistral....like what? The country (Russia) that made/produced Buran, Mir, and The International Space Station desperately needs Mistral's naval technology IP (for a boat that cant tolerate Arctic conditions and has a poor armament) lmao?!?!  Had the Russian's went through with the lawsuit they could of gotten something like $10 billion USD in compensation, now covert that to Rubles and Russia could of regiment/brigades' worth of military vehicles of domestic origin.

The idea the Mistrals were bad, but their IP is good is terrible contradictory logic.

They weren't bad and Russia would have gotten good use out of them... it is just they were designed for France and the west and not for Russia or Russian conditions or Russian expectations. Weak armament and single propulsion system with no redundancy... and not really optimised for arctic operations or Kamov type helicopters and I suspect the armour storage is optimised for French armour and not Russian armour etc etc.

Had the Russian's went through with the lawsuit they could of gotten something like $10 billion USD in compensation, now covert that to Rubles and Russia could of regiment/brigades' worth of military vehicles of domestic origin.

Not in a European court... a European court probably would have found the Russians libel because Frances economy hasn't been going great lately and they could do with some more money... like they did with gas contracts and the Ukraine...

medo wrote: India have to buy 6 new Airbus A330MRTT for Rafales.

When it comes to topics related to India you transcended hypocrisy to get into hilarity.  When facts are imagined, hindsight too is imagined at an exponential level.

This video clearly proves IL-78 has been used to refuel the Rafale.


https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1149999886131257344?s=20

magnumcromagnon wrote:

The idea the Mistrals were bad, but their IP is good is terrible contradictory logic. It can't be both! I remember clowns saying that Russia's will be getting the IP for a lifting platform mechanism from Mistral....like what? The country (Russia) that made/produced Buran, Mir, and The International Space Station desperately needs Mistral's naval technology IP (for a boat that cant tolerate Arctic conditions and has a poor armament) lmao?!?!  Had the Russian's went through with the lawsuit they could of gotten something like $10 billion USD in compensation, now covert that to Rubles and Russia could of regiment/brigades' worth of military vehicles of domestic origin.

Who said the Mistrals were bad? They are state of the art ships in their class built with the lastest technology and methods. Its design and construction methods using mega block construction that Russia lacked. They acquired this by building some sections of the Mistral. The benefit of this is you don't have your massive drydock tied up endlessly and you can scale up production much faster with higher quality. Also Russia got the codebase for the battle management system as they had to integrate their weapons to it.

medo wrote:
India have to buy 6 new Airbus A330MRTT for Rafales.

There are a lot of good reasons for India to buy the A330 MRTT, its really an incredible plane that can move troops, freight and refuel. Its IMHO the best tanker solution on the market today. The Indian Air Force can even charter the plane for passanger when not in service like the UK does.

Wow the Rafale deal has aged like milk, and is looking worse and worse by the day!

In India: For the purchase of the S-400, the US can "force" France to restrict the supply of weapons for the Rafale fighters

magnumcromagnon wrote:Wow the Rafale deal has aged like milk, and is looking worse and worse by the day!

In India: For the purchase of the S-400, the US can "force" France to restrict the supply of weapons for the Rafale fighters

Bhahahaha....

OMG, the Rafale deal becomes more hilarious by the year.

India has Apaches, Chinooks and P8 Posidens as well.

After more than 30 years of development, Tejas is dead.

Not true: Speaking on the Tejas Mk-II, an official said that it will be a medium-weight fighter (MWF) and that its design is ready. The current Tejas has a maximum takeoff weight of 13.5 tonnes while the MWF is in the next class and is targeted to have a maximum takeoff weight of around 17.5 tonnes. The Indian Air Force will be ordering these aircraft in large numbers to meet its requirements. The first flight of the Mk-II will happen in 2022 and will take another 5-6 years to get into production. By that time, the Mirage-2000 fighters will complete their lifespan and the LCA Mk-II should get into production. And to fill the gap in the IAF's combat fleet, Tejas is expected to play an important role in the medium category. On September 13, 2019, the naval version of Tejas LCA achieved a successful "arrested landing" at the shore-based Test Facility of INS Hansa in Goa, achieved a milestone.
Indian Navy had hailed this day as a "golden letter day" in its history—even after it first rejected the naval version of LCA. Eventually in January last year, LCA Navy made a maiden take off from INS Vikramaditya. https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2021/01/05/20-years-since-lca-tejass-first-flight-whats-next-for-indias-indigenous-fighter-programme.html

https://youtu.be/BdZNZmDGLqI?t=21

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/bolstering-the-iaf-deal-for-83-lca-tejas-mark-1a-jets-56-medium-transport-aircraft-to-be-signed-soon