RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

GarryB wrote:

r u sure?

Yes. Russian radar in Russia can track American F-35s operating on the Iraq Iran border... they can see over the entire area of Syria and Israel etc etc etc.

so what? Israel been striking many targets across all of Syria, recently by the Iraqi border, with impunity. I'm sure they used their F-35s to test them in real combat. After all, they didn't get them to be hangar queens.

You do understand that the Russians saw the Israeli F-16s that hid behind the Russian intel gathering Il-20 and lured the Iraqis to shoot it down too... they didn't shoot them down either.

Seeing a target and choosing to shoot it down or not are two very different things.

In an IADS the platform that shoots the target down does need to use its search radars to find the target... it can use target data from other sources...NEBO and Container are but two...

Why India is buying the MiG-29 again, abandoning the American F-21 and risking severe sanctions
Today

A few days ago, American congressmen reaffirmed that anyone who buys Russian military equipment runs the risk of falling under the CAATSA (On Countering America's Enemies with the Effect of Sanctions) and there can be no exceptions. It is difficult to explain how this fits in with the principles of the free market, which seems to be the basis of world trade. But we are already used to the fact that as soon as it comes to big money, any freedom becomes an empty declaration. India, in this case, is especially hard. Recently, it has been trying to play with the United States in a global strategic partnership, but this is exactly the case when one partner always strives to be on top. The Americans are harshly twisting the hands of the Indians, offering to abandon the traditional and even privileged partnership with Russia.

It is virtually impossible to do this now, since the main arms of the Indian Republic's troops are based on Russian technology. Local politicians also understand this, from time to time demonstrating obstinacy towards their rather obsessive "big brother". This was the case with the purchase of the S-400 complexes. The five regimental kits of the popular Russian air defense system acquired by India caused a storm of indignation in Washington, and hysteria over this wire does not end to this day.

A new "act of disobedience" took place literally the day before. The Department of the Indian War Ministry, responsible for the acquisition of equipment, finally approved the plan for the urgent purchase of fighters from Russia: 21 MiG-29s and eleven more Su-30MKIs, which today constitute the main force of the Indian Air Force. The decision matured about a year ago, and all this time, the United States persistently urged India to abandon the deal, offering as an alternative the "latest fighter" F-21. Under this mark was the same ancient F-16 Fighting Falcon, adapted specifically for the Indian market.

The predecessor of the F-21, the F-16 Block70 \ 72 fighter, had already tried its hand at the infamous Indian MMRCA tender and took off early. The Americans tried to sell their junk once again, arranging for the veteran a light cosmetic surgery. But Indians are pretty familiar with War Falcon. Their pilots on the Su-30MKI regularly organized pogroms on the "sixteenth" in training battles and constantly met with the American fighter on the edge of the Indo-Pakistani confrontation, the so-called "line of control". They did not want to buy the F-16 under any guise, despite the fact that the American manufacturers were "like a tank", using all possible administrative resources.
At the beginning of this year, the situation finally cleared up, although in the case of India, surprises are always possible. For urgent replenishment of the ranks of their own Air Force, which had noticeably thinned after the write-off of very old MiGs and Mirages, they chose Russian technology. This happened after having pretty much tormented with Rafals and having organized, at the suggestion of the Americans, a whole campaign against Russian fighters in the press, at some point the Indians suddenly realized that an old friend is always better than new ones, especially when a freshly baked "strategic partner" immediately starts "friendship" with blackmail and hysterics. The tensions with China also contributed to this enlightenment. With the help of Russian vehicles, the Indian military expects to support its fighter aircraft in 42 squadrons until 2024. Going forward, they hope for their own light fighter "Tejas" and the fifth generation AMCA program, which they intend to launch by the middle of this decade. Let's see how they do it.

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5cbc1d66621b6d00b28aefbd/zachem-indiia-vnov-pokupaet-mig29-otkazavshis-ot-amerikanskogo-f21-i-riskuia-popast-pod-jestkie-sankcii-60092296fc8f1029f789b400

Deal between Russia and India over S-400s: "a slap on Biden"

India has sent several dozens of soldiers to Russia to train them with the handling of the S-400 air-defence system that it expects to purchase. However, this initiative will not be to Washington's satisfaction, who considers New Delhi a key partner in the Indian-Pacific strategy, writes Jap outlet Nikkei Asia.

India should receive its first air defence batteries between September and November 2021 and will be operational at the end of this year or beginning next.

https://mundo.sputniknews.com/defensa/202101281094261683-el-acuerdo-entre-rusia-y-la-india-sobre-los-s-400--un-golpe-contra-biden/

Not so much a slap... hopefully more of a kick up the arse.

Biden has to realise that just because India will cooperate with the US and her bitches in the region against China, they are not going to piss trillions of dollars away on useless and ineffective air defence crap like THAAD or Patriot or AEGIS Ashore. They want the good stuff... and if you think a tantrum and lashing out will stop them then you are an idiot.

But idiots for president are normal in the US of A... look at their history.

Sujoy wrote:

GarryB wrote:The Iraqis never had an IADS... it was very much like Syria a few years ago... lots of air defence systems operating separately and independently... some communication, but no real IADS at all.

Lots of air defence systems could have shot down a whole lot of NATO fighters. You don't need an IADS for that. They couldn't.

GarryB wrote:That is ridiculous... are you suggesting they invade Turkey or Israel?

I don't know if Russia has the capability to invade Turkey. Russian army positions inside Syria has been bombed by rebels supported by Turkey.  Turkey did shoot down a Russian Su 24. They did not have to enter Russian airspace to do that.

Will wait and see if a Russian Mig 35 can shoot down a Turkish F-16 in Syria.

GarryB wrote:The F-35 is the best fighter in teh world and it hasn't been effectively used anywhere.

Why would you think that the F-35 is the best fighter in the tech world? There are hardly any tech in the F-35 that is not available in other 4++ gen fighters.

The Coalition lost a total of 75 aircraft—52 fixed-wing aircraft and 23 helicopters–during Desert Storm, with 39 fixed—wing aircraft and 5 helicopters lost in combat.

One coalition fighter was lost in air-air combat, a U.S. Navy F/A-18 piloted by Scott Speicher.

Kiko wrote:Why India is buying the MiG-29 again, abandoning the American F-21 and risking severe sanctions
Today

This happened after having pretty much tormented with Rafals and having organized, at the suggestion of the Americans, a whole campaign against Russian fighters in the press,

Isn't this proof that there is literally disinformation campaigns against Russia fighters ? Like coordinated and organized media attacks against them ? I have long suspected that this was the case.

Yes and we all called it out when no one else faces the exact issues India does. Indians claimed it's because they fly the most per year in hour terms but that is highly suspicious. Especially since the recent years Russia has flown as much or more, along with China whom also uses a lot of Russian jets.

Then articles came out about Indian facilities storing spare parts for Russian jets being stolen and replaced with sub par parts....

miketheterrible wrote:Yes and we all called it out when no one else faces the exact issues India does. Indians claimed it's because they fly the most per year in hour terms but that is highly suspicious.  Especially since the recent years Russia has flown as much or more, along with China whom also uses a lot of Russian jets.

Then articles came out about Indian facilities storing spare parts for Russian jets being stolen and replaced with sub par parts....

I guess India's government will have to make up its mind what it wants.   To be America's bitch or to crack down on such sabotage.
If India's government lets such incidents frame its views via an MSM disinformation campaign, then it is not worth the time of day.    
Unlike the USA, Russia is not interested in running a colonial racket, so India is free to follow its own path.  

You would think that after the experience with the British, India would learn something.  Apparently, it wants to be ass raped by
the Americans as well.

I'll tell you what my wife (Punjabi) told me:

After the Brits "left", majority of the British Raj went with them and a few whom still had power, stayed behind. In this regard, it created a class of pro Brits and Americans who actually still rule the country. They are the literal elites. Many Descendents of the British Raj are still there in India now. Not with direct power, but influential. Had the "privilege" to see one of them in Jaipur.

Russia has similar class with the liberals so Russia has same problem to a lesser extent.

The Coalition lost a total of 75 aircraft—52 fixed-wing aircraft and 23 helicopters–during Desert Storm, with 39 fixed—wing aircraft and 5 helicopters lost in combat.

One coalition fighter was lost in air-air combat, a U.S. Navy F/A-18 piloted by Scott Speicher.

The Richard Attenborough explaination would be a group of say 20 lions on a plain hunting wilderbeast... there are 10,000 wilderbeast but they are not working together they are individuals who hang around in a big group in the hope that there is a weaker animal there that will be taken instead of them because 20 hunting cats can't kill 10,000 animals even on a good day.

It is a survival technique that works on land, in the air and at sea, and although it looks brutal with lots of death and destruction the hunters get their fill and stop killing and the herd moves on.

Desert Storm was 50,000 hunters vs a million grazers... the 50,000 hunters have the enormous advantage of working together and cooperating and planning and finding weak spots, but always picking off the weak actually makes the herd stronger.

With proper C4IR and an IADS it turns the tables because one on one a horse has no chance against a lion, but you get 4-5 bison charging a group of lions and the lions don't stand a chance if those Bison work together and actively defend each other. The lion only survives because they don't.

An IADS means using your sensors and weapons efficiently and intelligently.

in NK the SAM vehicles like OSA were working alone so they had to turn on their radar to spot targets and by turning on their radar they revealed their position and could be attacked. Because they all operated alone they all had to turn on their radar and could all be located... if they didn't turn on their radar they would not see targets and either might be stumbled on and destroyed anyway, or it just wont shoot down any targets because it wont see them.

If it had a proper IADS, which is more than a few dozen OSA vehicles linked and talking to each other, you could use tactics where a vehicle turns on its radar and looks for targets but passes target information to other vehicles operating nearby. Any threat comes to take down the emitting OSA vehicle can be detected by that OSA vehicle easily enough but because it is emitting the enemy knows where it is and what range its missiles have so it will remain outside its range to engage it. But it wont be outside the range of other radar silent OSA vehicles who can engage and destroy the threat in optical mode using hints from the active vehicle whose radar can see quite a bit further than its missiles can reach....

The active vehicle can then move and another vehicle can start scanning...

Isn't this proof that there is literally disinformation campaigns against Russia fighters ? Like coordinated and organized media attacks against them ? I have long suspected that this was the case.

The CIA used to infiltrate communist parties... now it infiltrates media and drug cartels... for propaganda and income respectively...

Then articles came out about Indian facilities storing spare parts for Russian jets being stolen and replaced with sub par parts....

To be fair that might have just been to make money selling original parts and hiding the theft with cheap counterfeits, but the CIA is highly likely to have assisted or helped cover up in any way they could.

Russia has similar class with the liberals so Russia has same problem to a lesser extent.

Yes, the believe Europe and the US is special, but really they are actually much worse.

India is ready for joint production of the MiG-35 fighter and the Il-112V military transport


Russia and India have reached a preliminary agreement on the joint production of the MiG-35 fighter. This was announced by the Deputy Head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) of Russia Vladimir Drozhzhov.

According to the deputy director of the FSMTC, if the Russian MiG-35 fighter wins the tender for the supply of 114 new aircraft, India is ready for joint production of fighters at the enterprises of the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) corporation.

A preliminary agreement has been reached with the Indian corporation HAL on joint participation in the project

- said Drozhzhov, adding that it was up to the Indian Ministry of Defense, which should choose the Russian fighter.

According to him, a corresponding proposal was sent to the Indian side, Indian pilots conducted test flights on the MiG-35. The Indian Air Force should decide on the final choice of fighter by April-May of this year.

Also, the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) corporation expressed its readiness to start production of the Russian military transport aircraft Il-112V if this aircraft is chosen by the Indian military.

Indian partners are showing interest in the Il-112V aircraft. Indian corporation HAL is ready to organize its production at its enterprises. Decision for the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of India

- reported in the FSMTC.

https://en.topwar.ru/179654-indija-gotova-k-sovmestnomu-proizvodstvu-istrebitelja-mig-35-i-voenno-transportnogo-il-112v.html

India has sent a request for a batch of carrier-based fighters MiG-29K / KUB for the aircraft carrier "Vikrant"

India intends to purchase a new batch of Russian MiG-29K / KUB carrier-based fighters, a request has already been sent to the Russian side. Vladimir Drozhzhov, Deputy Head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) of Russia, spoke about this during the Aero India 2021 exhibition.

Answering a question from journalists, Drozhzhov explained that Russia had received a preliminary request from India for the supply of MiG-29K / KUB carrier-based fighters and had already sent its proposals to the Indian military. Currently, a tender is expected to be announced for the supply of carrier-based aircraft for Indian aircraft carriers, but Russia is hoping for an intergovernmental agreement.

Equipping the Vikrant aircraft carrier with the same type MiG-29K / KUB aircraft and their further combat use will significantly reduce the costs of both their operation and training of personnel operating this equipment

- added Drozhzhov.

Last year, the Indian Ministry of Defense announced plans to transfer the fleet the newest light aircraft carrier Vikrant in the spring of 2021. According to the plans, it will host up to 14 MiG-29K / KUB aircraft and several radar patrol helicopters.

Recall that earlier, under two contracts, India received 45 MiG-29K / KUB carrier-based fighters.

https://en.topwar.ru/179644-indija-napravila-zapros-na-partiju-palubnyh-istrebitelej-mig-29k-kub-dlja-avianosca-vikrant.html

Expect much huffing and puffing coming over the horizon from Washington any moment.

JohninMK wrote:Expect much huffing and puffing coming over the horizon from Washington any moment.

Yeah this is huge. There's a lot of doubt about this deal going around Twitter.

I don't think shilling weapons is as important to the Biden regime as it was to trump though.

Backman wrote:

Kiko wrote:Why India is buying the MiG-29 again, abandoning the American F-21 and risking severe sanctions
Today

This happened after having pretty much tormented with Rafals and having organized, at the suggestion of the Americans, a whole campaign against Russian fighters in the press,

Isn't this proof that there is literally disinformation campaigns against Russia fighters ? Like coordinated and organized media attacks against them ? I have long suspected that this was the case.

yes. just watch some of the more popular indian defense yt channels. some are so obvious you dont even need to speak hindi to see it. they even attack rafale and push for shit like "f-21" and f-18.

From an Indian perspective it makes no sense having different fighters on each aircraft carrier... and Rafales or F-18s would need catapult launch on carriers that small.

Russia’s state arms seller to ink deal on delivering latest AK-203 assault rifles to India

https://tass.com/defense/1252701

GarryB wrote:From an Indian perspective it makes no sense having different fighters on each aircraft carrier... and Rafales or F-18s would need catapult launch on carriers that small.

It's a little worrying that it took them this long to figure that out.

India wants to produce the latest Russian Il-112V aircraft
Andrey Arkadiev
February 3, 2021
The decision remains with the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of India, the FSMTC said.

The Indian corporation Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is ready to produce the promising new generation Il-112V light transport aircraft, said Vladimir Drozhzhov, Deputy Director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) of the Russian Federation, during the Aero India-2021 exhibition.

“Indian partners are showing interest in the Il-112V aircraft. Indian corporation HAL is ready to organize its production at its enterprises. The decision is up to the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of India, ”he said.

In October, the Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation Denis Manturov announced that the new Il-112V aircraft would begin to arrive at the Russian Ministry of Defense in 2023.

The design of the Il-112V aircraft began in 2002, when the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation announced a competition for the creation of a light military transport aircraft. This competition was attended by "Tupolev", AK them. S.V. Ilyushin, EMZ them. V.M. Myasishchev, RSK MiG and OKB im. Sukhoi. The creation of a transport aircraft based on the An-140 was also considered.

In March 2003, the competition committee reviewed the submitted projects, and on August 12, Vladimir Putin was informed that the Il-112V project had won the competition. Ilyushinskoye design bureau started to create the aircraft.

At the end of 2018, the chief designer of Il PJSC, Nikolai Talikov, told the Zvezda TV channel that Ilyushin was working on weight loss. Later it became known that the weight was reduced by a ton due to the use of composite materials, improvement of aircraft systems and equipment.

In June 2019, the production of the third and fourth Il-112V began at the Voronezh aircraft plant.

https://yandex.ru/turbo/tvzvezda.ru/s/news/opk/content/2021231221-1nW3G.html?publisher_logo_url=https%3A%2F%2Favatars.mds.yandex.net%2Fget-turbo%2F4002445%2F2a0000017507d93789ec0e46009b23f7f3cd%2Fsvg&promo=navbar&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

Defense View: India signed an agreement with Russia on the supply of Su-57

The media report on the agreements concluded between Russia and India on Su-57 fighters.

The information and news publication "Defense View" reports that, within the framework of the international air show "Aero India 2021", Russia and India reached an agreement on the supply of Russian Su-57 fighters to the Indian Air Force, and, in addition to purchasing an unnamed number of Russian fighters, the fifth generation, it is also assumed that India will return to the FGFA program (Indian fifth generation fighter based on the Su-57 - ed.).

“The Defense Research and Development Organization of India (DRDO) was primarily interested in fifth generation fighter technology for their own production. At the time, it was believed in New Delhi that they either already existed or were in the final stages of development. That is, the problem was not the low quality of the fifth-generation Russian Su 57 fighters, but intellectual property rights. It is possible that making a combat aircraft of this level for India on its own was a somewhat more difficult task than was initially assumed. The other day, Air Marshal of the Indian Air Force Birender Singh Dhanova spoke about the conditions for acquiring the Su-57 from Russia: “When it is already put into operation for you, only then will we be able to make a decision for ourselves. We are ready to consider it for purchase after we see it in the case, and it will be submitted to us for testing for evaluation. Thus, India did not put an end to the project at all, but only temporarily froze the negotiations, allowing Moscow to eliminate all "childhood diseases" at its own expense. Cynical, but practical. And now New Delhi has asked to bring him an export version of the Russian fifth-generation fighter for "inspection" ", - reports the publication "Defense View".

Given the fact that a flight copy of the Su-57E fighter has not yet been created, there is still no real contract between Russia and India, however, given New Delhi's new interest in Russian fifth-generation fighters, it is obvious that a contract between the two countries may occur. soon.

https://avia.pro/news/defence-view-indiya-zaklyuchila-dogovoryonnosti-s-rossiey-po-postavkam-su-57bcnht?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

avia.pro = sensationalism

LMFS wrote:avia.pro = sensationalism

They probably aren't completely making it up are they ?

Any new interest in the su 57 by India will cause the US to stick a wrench in India/Russia relations. They will try

Backman wrote:They probably aren't completely making it up are they ?

More than once they have done... such scoops coming out of the blue are extremely rare and, from that source, they land directly in my trash bin.

Pentagon Chief Says India Should Forgo Buying Russia's S-400s to Avoid US Sanctions

US Secretary of Defence Lloyd J. Austin III has urged Indian leaders to avoid buying Russian defence equipment, including S-400s, if the country wants to avoid the risk of sanctions under Section 231 of the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA).

https://sputniknews.com/india/202103201082401807-pentagon-chief-says-india-should-forgo-buying-russias-s-400s-to-avoid-us-sanctions/