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    Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

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    George1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  George1 on Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:21 am

    Russia to Deliver 10 Helicopter Gunships to Iraq

    MOSCOW, June 28 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will supply over 10 fully armed and equipped Mi-28NE Night Hunter attack helicopters to Iraq under a multi-billion dollar agreement, a representative of Russia’s state arms exporter told RIA Novosti on Friday.

    Russia and Iraq signed a $4.3 billion agreement on cooperation in the defense and technology sector in 2012, and this is the first time the number of Night Hunters under the contract has been disclosed.

    Alexander Mikheyev, deputy general director at Russia’s state arms exporter Rosoboronexport, said that the helicopter contract also covers pilot and technical personnel training and the delivery of essential weapons systems.

    This is the first contract with Iraq under the package agreement, he added.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:53 am

    Some would argue that the Iraqi government is more under the influence of Iran than the US. Iranian supplies to Syria go through Iraq, Iraqi oil for the Syrian Army (for free according to the Saudi's) and the Iraqi Army is fighting the same groups that the SAA is fighting.
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    mack8

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  mack8 on Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:36 pm

    Does any of our russian friends here with "insight" into defence matters heard of any iraqi contingents being in Russia for  training on the weapon systems they are set to receive (Mi-35, Mi-28NE, Pantsir, maybe others too)? I realize such information might be very sensitive, but if some aspects can be commented in public, that would be very interesting. Thanks.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:42 am

    I couldn't find a better thread to post this on.

    KBP report: http://bmpd.livejournal.com/589335.html
    -KORNET to Irak
    -METIS-M1 to Bangladesh
    -PANTSIR S/S1 to Russia, Trak and Syria
    -Combat module for ARMATA based IFV.
    etc.

    My Russian skills are not sufficient to provide an adequate translation for the article. On-line translation is rubbish. Can someone help provide a more detailed translation of the main points.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:51 am

    Interesting the auto translator translates Pantsir-S1 into Armour-1 and Shell-1.

    Also interesting that they are selling Kornet-E rather than the new Kornet-EM.

    A very good missile none-the-less.

    And Metis-M1 is an excellent system that is cheap and very portable and with 950mm+ penetration a threat to any tank from the side and rear.


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    flamming_python

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:54 pm

    GarryB wrote:Interesting the auto translator translates Pantsir-S1 into Armour-1 and Shell-1.
    'Pantsir' is the name for a unique type of Russian light-chainmail shirt used in the middle ages.

    It's also the Russian word for an animal's chitinous shell - e.g. lobsters, turtles, etc...


    Last edited by flamming_python on Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:03 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:58 pm

    GarryB wrote:Also interesting that they are selling Kornet-E rather than the new Kornet-EM.
    Well there might not be a need for anything greater; in the region only Saudi Arabia AFAIK has tanks that would require the very latest ATGM systems to combat.

    Either that or Russia nor anyone else is willing to sell Iraq the very latest generation of ATGM systems for fear of proliferation, transfer to Iran or China for study, etc... so Iraq just has to make do with what they can get - and in fact it may be Russia that has offered Iraq the most capable system out of everyone else.
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    mack8

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  mack8 on Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:02 pm

    Thanks, very interesting info . Would such annual reports be available for Mil and Almaz-Antey too by any chance? Very Happy 
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    Viktor

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Viktor on Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:33 am

    mack8 wrote:Thanks, very interesting info . Would such annual reports be available for Mil and Almaz-Antey too by any chance? Very Happy 
    Those reports where widely discussed on S-400/500 topic.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:54 am

    'Pantsir' is the name for a unique type of Russian light-chainmail shirt used in the middle ages.
    You mean Pantsir means Mithril? Smile


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    mack8

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  mack8 on Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:19 pm

    Thanks Viktor, i did found what i was looking for, unfortunately the export section table is secretno, i was hoping we could have found interesting info about f.e. S-300VM delivery to Venezuela, and perhaps to other countries. I don't think anyone heard about any sort of contract or negotiations with Iraq for S-300PMU2 or VM ?
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    Viktor

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Viktor on Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:13 am

    mack8 wrote:Thanks Viktor, i did found what i was looking for, unfortunately the export section table is secretno, i was hoping we could have found interesting info about f.e. S-300VM delivery to Venezuela, and perhaps to other countries. I don't think anyone heard about any sort of contract or negotiations with Iraq for S-300PMU2 or VM ?
    Have a look LINK

    Venezuela is getting 2 S-300VM batteries and 4-5 BUK-M2 batteries.
    Number of Pechora-2M and Igla-S and ZSU-23 is unknown to me. Not enough thats for sure but its a good start.
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    mack8

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  mack8 on Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:14 am

    Thanks, been following Venezuela's S-300VM and Buk-M2 aquisition since spring, hopefully they'll show the first firing drills with them not too far from now.Very Happy 

    Anyway, the reason i asked about Iraq and S-300VM is because i've seen posted by iraqi forumists that there is apparently a $210 mil per system SAM included in the russian deal, hence logically something that expensive could be the S-300VM (or PMU? apart from the syrian ones, that system is out of production as of now right?). Perhaps there will be something in next year's SIPRI , or perhaps such a deal doesn't exist, time will tell.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Viktor on Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:48 am

    mack8 wrote:Thanks, been following Venezuela's S-300VM and Buk-M2 aquisition since spring, hopefully they'll show the first firing drills with them not too far from now.Very Happy 

    Anyway, the reason i asked about Iraq and S-300VM is because i've seen posted by iraqi forumists that there is apparently a $210 mil per system SAM included in the russian deal, hence logically something that expensive could be the S-300VM (or PMU? apart from the syrian ones, that system is out of production as of now right?). Perhaps there will be something in next year's SIPRI , or perhaps such a deal doesn't exist, time will tell.
    I did not know that. You could past some articles if you have them. That would be great.
    As of this moment you have S-300PMU2 and S-300VM (2011) - offered for export.
    As for domestic use you have S-400 and S-300V4.
    S-300PMU2 is not made anymore for Russian but you have modernization of S-300PM to a Favorit standard (but no new ones)

    It would be nice to see S-300VM of Venezuela armed forces in action and some new contracts Very Happy 
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    'Pantsir' is the name for a unique type of Russian light-chainmail shirt used in the middle ages.
    You mean Pantsir means Mithril?   Smile
    Yes! Exactly Twisted Evil 

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:56 am

    Gentlemen.

    I have a question.

    According to the Iraqi Parliament Defence Committee, the first arms deal with Russia included 16,000 sniper rifles. Would anyone have an idea which type (or types) it could be?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:40 am

    There are a range of sniper rifles that Russia sells, though I would suspect it would be the standard SVDS they will have ordered, though it could be the new bullpup VS-121 version of the SVD, or perhaps if they want serious accuracy they might have gone for a bolt action like the SV-98.

    Just looking at the new weapons I suspect the bullpup VS-121 version of the SVD, which has an improved trigger, heavy barrel, long barrel, and a significant scope mounted on it has gone for accuracy as well as rugged design.

    The SVD was already optimised for sniper use with less accuracy than western rifles with a fairly light barrel... the loaded rifle was actually about half a kilogramme lighter than an FN FAL rifle.

    The VS-121 seems to have addressed that with a heavy barrel so it wont be as light, but accuracy should be rather better and it should be able to handle the recoil better too.

    I would expect the VS-121 to be accurate to about 1km range and to be rather more accurate than the standard SVD.


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    Viktor

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Viktor on Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:35 am

    Very interesting ....

    Baghdad chooses Russian armored vehicles

    During the exhibition, RAE-2013 in Nizhny Tagil Iraqi Defense Ministry delegation will discuss with representatives of Rosoboronexport and the Kurgan possibility of purchasing Russian armored vehicles

    As the weekly "military-industrial complex," a source in the military-industrial complex, the Iraqi military are interested in BTR-82 armored personnel carriers, as well as options for upgrading an existing fleet of Soviet armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, set in the 1980s. During the exhibition, representatives of the Ministry of Defense of Iraq will become familiar with armored vehicles and hold closed-door talks. One reason for the interest in the Russian BTR source publication called problems with purchased earlier Ukrainian BTR-4.

    http://vpk.name/news/97436_bagdad_vyibiraet_rossiiskie_btr.html



    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:30 am

    interesting news.

    Whilst in theory the BTR4 is a better vehicle, the Ukrainians have really disappointed with their production schedules and quality... there was a potential $2.5Bn military agreement between Iraq and Ukraine... but its all gone to hell now.

    The 6 AN32s they sold to Iraq, they tried to pass off second hand cockpit and second hand engines as "new"... which the Iraqis rejected... then they had the BTR4s, not only late but with manufacturing defects, lack of engines and jamming guns among other "problems"!!

    all in all, the impression is that the Ukrainians seem to have fallen for the false stereotyping of "stupid arabs with money" when it came to dealing with Iraqis.
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    TR1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  TR1 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:39 am

    I'm not sure its as much a perception of "stupid Iraqis" as a seriously degraded Ukrainian production capacity + inadequate testing process..and of course greed and incompetence of so many post-Soviet defense complex managers. The Iraqis clearly became fed up with this constant work in progress, and now the BTRs are interned in...India. What a mess.

    BTR-82 is a decent interim solution, but is not ideal as a main "line" APC...maybe they can give them a glimpse of the soon to be (Boomerag) ?

    I think the Iraqis dodged a major bullet in the long term btw...the BTR-4 is a half-assed BTR-80-on-roids mutant child.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:43 am

    But Ukraine is still exporting stuff to a lot of other customers... I don't know why the other customers seem satisfied whilst the Iraqi orders got messed up (truth be told they did sell some ARVs and other things to Iraq which were good)... the BTRs OTOH... they appeared in one parade in Baghdad, and now the 5th division which is supposed to operate them is back in HUMVEES... Sad
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:44 am

    sheytanelkebir wrote:interesting news.

    Whilst in theory the BTR4 is a better vehicle, the Ukrainians have really disappointed with their production schedules and quality... there was a potential $2.5Bn military agreement between Iraq and Ukraine... but its all gone to hell now.
    Yep that's what I thought immediately of too; the Ukrainian BTR-4 contract.
    SO what's the status on it anyway? Will it be cancelled? How many vehicles have been delivered and put into service? Will any more deliveries be accepted and the current contract fulfilled?

    The 6 AN32s they sold to Iraq, they tried to pass off second hand cockpit and second hand engines as "new"... which the Iraqis rejected... then they had the BTR4s, not only late but with manufacturing defects, lack of engines and jamming guns among other "problems"!!
    OMG are you serious? lol1 
    'lack of engines'? Do you mean that literally?
    I don't want to be harsh on the Ukrainians but this is pure gold. About the other "problems", please tell us more.. Shocked

    I guess Russia had a few such problems with some of its contracts, but never anything so extensive or obvious as I recall. 

    all in all, the impression is that the Ukrainians seem to have fallen for the false stereotyping of "stupid arabs with money" when it came to dealing with Iraqis.
    More like the Iraqis have fallen for the Ukrainians.

    Ukroboronprom is like that 2nd hand car dealership on the outskirts of town with the shifty dealer. Everyone knows its bad news, and you get only what you pay for, sometimes less; but some people still like to fancy their luck securing a bargain, they think that they are smart enough to avoid getting ripped-off.
    Well Iraq has been taught a lesson I guess.

    a89

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  a89 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:47 am

    The 6 AN32s they sold to Iraq, they tried to pass off second hand cockpit and second hand engines as "new"... which the Iraqis rejected... then they had the BTR4s, not only late but with manufacturing defects, lack of engines and jamming guns among other "problems"!!
    Ukraine has been struggling to create a full production cycle. Iraqui authorities also accused Ukrainian manufacturers of using steel plates for BTR-70 production. I had never read anything about lack of engines... surely this must be a translation error.



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    TR1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  TR1 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:50 am

    sheytanelkebir wrote:But Ukraine is still exporting stuff to a lot of other customers... I don't know why the other customers seem satisfied whilst the Iraqi orders got messed up (truth be told they did sell some ARVs and other things to Iraq which were good)... the BTRs OTOH... they appeared in one parade in Baghdad, and now the 5th division which is supposed to operate them is back in HUMVEES... Sad
    Most of their exports have been ex-Soviet stocks or rebuilt Soviet vehicles. BTR-3 is basically a re-built BTR-80 for example, and can you guess what tank they have sold the most? T-64, T-80, Oplot, Bulat? Nope, good old used T-72 Smile.

    Nothing the size of this BTR-4 contract, which is why they stumbled hard IMO.
    KMBD used to be part of a vast Soviet armored vehicle production chain, since that is gone they have had difficulty covering all bases of production. There were news recently of them trying to illegally import tank rollers from Russia D:
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    TR1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  TR1 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:52 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Ukroboronprom is like that 2nd hand car dealership on the outskirts of town with the shifty dealer. Everyone knows its bad news, and you get only what you pay for, sometimes less; but some people still like to fancy their luck securing a bargain, they think that they are smart enough to avoid getting ripped-off.
    Well Iraq has been taught a lesson I guess.
    Unless I remember incorrectly, part of the reason Ukraine got the contract in the first place was political American pressure....may not even have been Iraq's fist choice.

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