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    Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

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    Post  Sujoy on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:35 pm


    It's a dilemma for Russia in a way . If it sells large quantities of arms to Iraq , a predominantly Shia state , it looses out in the more lucrative Sunni states like Qatar , UAE , Saudi Arabia and maybe even Oman and Kuwait .

    Increasingly the Sunni states are looking towards Russia as a source of cutting edge weapon systems . These states spend more than 5% of their GDP on defense .

    TR1
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    Post  TR1 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:11 am

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/464166.html

    Very interesting interview with former Iraqi Defense Minister (2006-2010).
    -Iraq compared Apache, Mi-28 and Tiger, and selected the Mi-28.
    -Politicians are trying to sabotage arms deals with Russia, but the minister says they will not succeed.
    -Iraq contacted Russia for rushed fighter delivery- the two sides agreed to fast delivery of 8 planes by June 2013. These might be MiG-29Ms from the Syrian contract
    -During the negotiations, the Iraqis pointed out 7 specific systems they are interested in: Pantsir-S1 and Tor-M2E, BMP-3, Su-30MK2 and MiG-29M, Mi-17V-5 and Mi-28NE. The first part of the contract was valued at 4.5 billion dollars.
    -Because of the noise started by politicians over the deal with Russia, future large scale arms programs will not be publicized by the military.
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:22 am

    TR1 wrote:http://bmpd.livejournal.com/464166.html
    -Because of the noise started by politicians over the deal with Russia, future large scale arms programs will not be publicized by the military.
    Don't you mean noise started by "American" politicians. Wink
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    Post  Viktor on Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:40 am

    Sujoy wrote:
    It's a dilemma for Russia in a way . If it sells large quantities of arms to Iraq , a predominantly Shia state , it looses out in the more lucrative Sunni states like Qatar , UAE , Saudi Arabia and maybe even Oman and Kuwait .

    Increasingly the Sunni states are looking towards Russia as a source of cutting edge weapon systems . These states spend more than 5% of their GDP on defense .


    But those Suni countries are already under US control and mostly buys US weapons.

    There is no need for Russia to to pick sides. It makes excellent killing machines and anybody should be able to buy some Very Happy
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    Post  Sujoy on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:45 am

    Viktor wrote:But those Suni countries are already under US control and mostly buys US weapons.

    Agreed . But the situation is changing . Russia has sold BMP3 to Kuwait , UAE . Pantsir S 1 to Jordan and UAE . These countries till not so long ago were virtually US "client states" .

    Case in point , last weeks IDEX 2013 in Dubai saw the largest Russian participation ever.

    The previous arrangement between USA & the Sunni countries was the US purchases oil from them and they use the petro dollars to buy US weapons. However, with the US now deciding to bring oil exploration near shore ( US & Canada) the Sunni countries have realized that they too need to diversify their arms purchase.

    Viktor wrote:There is no need for Russia to to pick sides. It makes excellent killing machines and anybody should be able to buy some Very Happy

    Actually it is the buyer that picks sides Smile . For example , Russia probably would have been able to sell Su 35 to Brazil had Venezuela not expressed interest in purchasing them .
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    Post  Viktor on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:00 pm

    Deal seams to be up and running.

    Iraq to Get Russian Weapons by June - Minister

    Russia will deliver attack helicopters and air-defense systems to Iraq before the summer, Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said on Monday.

    Iraq to Get Russian Weapons by June - Minister
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    Post  a89 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:50 pm

    A few years ago the Russian government was critisised in many forums for cancelling Iraq's debt. Now it seems that the Iraqui government will make some deals to compensate, and they will get another weapon supplier, which is always handy.
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    Post  Viktor on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:35 pm

    a89 wrote:A few years ago the Russian government was critisised in many forums for cancelling Iraq's debt. Now it seems that the Iraqui government will make some deals to compensate, and they will get another weapon supplier, which is always handy.

    Dont forget the oil contracts.

    As US is supporting rebels across the world and using them to overthrow the governments Iraq could find itself interest in Russia.
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    Post  TR1 on Thu May 30, 2013 10:31 pm

    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20130530/940390719.html

    Looks like the deal is on. First payments received, and production has started.
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    Post  Viktor on Fri May 31, 2013 3:33 am

    Nice. Another huge win for Pancir-S1 and a logical choice over TOR-M2.

    I hope other military contract in preparation where not stalled by the effect of this one. Anyway good to hear this huge contract is

    moving forward. I think Mi-28 will be put in good use as soon as they arrive.
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    Post  Viktor on Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:32 am

    Is this some kind of mistake or deal on top of Mi-28N/Pancir-S1 with Iraq?


    Russia has signed with Iraq a contract for the delivery of KA-52 helicopters - source


    Russia’s Rosoboronexport Company has concluded its first contract to supply Iraq with the Ka-52 helicopters, RIA Novosti reported from the Le Bourget aerospace show that was opened on Monday citing a source in the Russian delegation.
    Speaking at a news conference, head of the delegation Alexander Mikheev said that the first contract to supply the K-52 helicopters was signed but did not mention the contract value and the country.
    The contract was signed with Iraq in the framework of the 2012 agreement, the source said.
    In 2012, Russia and Iraq concluded a contract to supply weapons and military equipment to a sum of $4.3 billion.
    Voice of Russia, RIA Novosti

    Read more: http://english.ruvr.ru/news/2013_06_17/Russia-has-signed-with-iraq-a-contract-for-the-delivery-of-ka-52-helicopters-source-ria-novosti-5646/

    LINK
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    Post  Viktor on Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:39 am

    But also from "Interfax military" today. 

    - First contract for Mi-28N Night Hunter / signed

    Most likely for Iraq as part of original deal.
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    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:09 pm

    There is still some skepticism regarding the Iraq order for the Ka-52, but it's mentioned by several agencies. I just came across the following...




    . wrote:On June 18, an Iraqi military source confirmed that the air force command will receive “Alligator” combat helicopters from Russia in the coming period.

    In a statement to Al-Monitor, the source, a senior Iraqi army officer, said that "the aircraft will be of the Ka-52 and Mi-28NE models from the French Le Bourget Air Show.”


    Iraq to Receive Russian Military Helicopters
    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/tr/contents/articles/opinion/2013/06/iraq-army-helicopters-russia-military.html
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:20 pm

    If true, their Attack Helo purchase is as absurd as Russias.
    Ka-52, Mi-28 AND Mi-35.
    Doh!
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    Post  Zivo on Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:16 am

    What would be the reasoning behind parallel purchases of Mi-28s and Ka-52s?

    Isn't the Ka-52 better all around?
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    Post  Viktor on Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:54 am

    There was some talk about Ka-52 use as command helicopter in a Mi-28 group. Cant remember where I read about it. 

    Perhaps that could be it?
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    Post  George1 on Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:21 am

    Russia to Deliver 10 Helicopter Gunships to Iraq

    MOSCOW, June 28 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will supply over 10 fully armed and equipped Mi-28NE Night Hunter attack helicopters to Iraq under a multi-billion dollar agreement, a representative of Russia’s state arms exporter told RIA Novosti on Friday.

    Russia and Iraq signed a $4.3 billion agreement on cooperation in the defense and technology sector in 2012, and this is the first time the number of Night Hunters under the contract has been disclosed.

    Alexander Mikheyev, deputy general director at Russia’s state arms exporter Rosoboronexport, said that the helicopter contract also covers pilot and technical personnel training and the delivery of essential weapons systems.

    This is the first contract with Iraq under the package agreement, he added.
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    Post  mack8 on Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:36 pm

    Does any of our russian friends here with "insight" into defence matters heard of any iraqi contingents being in Russia for  training on the weapon systems they are set to receive (Mi-35, Mi-28NE, Pantsir, maybe others too)? I realize such information might be very sensitive, but if some aspects can be commented in public, that would be very interesting. Thanks.
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    Post  sheytanelkebir on Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:56 am

    Gentlemen.

    I have a question.

    According to the Iraqi Parliament Defence Committee, the first arms deal with Russia included 16,000 sniper rifles. Would anyone have an idea which type (or types) it could be?
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:40 am

    There are a range of sniper rifles that Russia sells, though I would suspect it would be the standard SVDS they will have ordered, though it could be the new bullpup VS-121 version of the SVD, or perhaps if they want serious accuracy they might have gone for a bolt action like the SV-98.

    Just looking at the new weapons I suspect the bullpup VS-121 version of the SVD, which has an improved trigger, heavy barrel, long barrel, and a significant scope mounted on it has gone for accuracy as well as rugged design.

    The SVD was already optimised for sniper use with less accuracy than western rifles with a fairly light barrel... the loaded rifle was actually about half a kilogramme lighter than an FN FAL rifle.

    The VS-121 seems to have addressed that with a heavy barrel so it wont be as light, but accuracy should be rather better and it should be able to handle the recoil better too.

    I would expect the VS-121 to be accurate to about 1km range and to be rather more accurate than the standard SVD.
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    Post  Viktor on Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:35 am

    Very interesting ....

    Baghdad chooses Russian armored vehicles

    During the exhibition, RAE-2013 in Nizhny Tagil Iraqi Defense Ministry delegation will discuss with representatives of Rosoboronexport and the Kurgan possibility of purchasing Russian armored vehicles

    As the weekly "military-industrial complex," a source in the military-industrial complex, the Iraqi military are interested in BTR-82 armored personnel carriers, as well as options for upgrading an existing fleet of Soviet armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, set in the 1980s. During the exhibition, representatives of the Ministry of Defense of Iraq will become familiar with armored vehicles and hold closed-door talks. One reason for the interest in the Russian BTR source publication called problems with purchased earlier Ukrainian BTR-4.

    http://vpk.name/news/97436_bagdad_vyibiraet_rossiiskie_btr.html


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    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:30 am

    interesting news.

    Whilst in theory the BTR4 is a better vehicle, the Ukrainians have really disappointed with their production schedules and quality... there was a potential $2.5Bn military agreement between Iraq and Ukraine... but its all gone to hell now.

    The 6 AN32s they sold to Iraq, they tried to pass off second hand cockpit and second hand engines as "new"... which the Iraqis rejected... then they had the BTR4s, not only late but with manufacturing defects, lack of engines and jamming guns among other "problems"!!

    all in all, the impression is that the Ukrainians seem to have fallen for the false stereotyping of "stupid arabs with money" when it came to dealing with Iraqis.
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    Post  TR1 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:39 am

    I'm not sure its as much a perception of "stupid Iraqis" as a seriously degraded Ukrainian production capacity + inadequate testing process..and of course greed and incompetence of so many post-Soviet defense complex managers. The Iraqis clearly became fed up with this constant work in progress, and now the BTRs are interned in...India. What a mess.

    BTR-82 is a decent interim solution, but is not ideal as a main "line" APC...maybe they can give them a glimpse of the soon to be (Boomerag) ?

    I think the Iraqis dodged a major bullet in the long term btw...the BTR-4 is a half-assed BTR-80-on-roids mutant child.
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    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:43 am

    But Ukraine is still exporting stuff to a lot of other customers... I don't know why the other customers seem satisfied whilst the Iraqi orders got messed up (truth be told they did sell some ARVs and other things to Iraq which were good)... the BTRs OTOH... they appeared in one parade in Baghdad, and now the 5th division which is supposed to operate them is back in HUMVEES... Sad
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    Post  flamming_python on Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:44 am

    sheytanelkebir wrote:interesting news.

    Whilst in theory the BTR4 is a better vehicle, the Ukrainians have really disappointed with their production schedules and quality... there was a potential $2.5Bn military agreement between Iraq and Ukraine... but its all gone to hell now.
    Yep that's what I thought immediately of too; the Ukrainian BTR-4 contract.
    SO what's the status on it anyway? Will it be cancelled? How many vehicles have been delivered and put into service? Will any more deliveries be accepted and the current contract fulfilled?

    The 6 AN32s they sold to Iraq, they tried to pass off second hand cockpit and second hand engines as "new"... which the Iraqis rejected... then they had the BTR4s, not only late but with manufacturing defects, lack of engines and jamming guns among other "problems"!!
    OMG are you serious? lol1 
    'lack of engines'? Do you mean that literally?
    I don't want to be harsh on the Ukrainians but this is pure gold. About the other "problems", please tell us more.. Shocked

    I guess Russia had a few such problems with some of its contracts, but never anything so extensive or obvious as I recall. 

    all in all, the impression is that the Ukrainians seem to have fallen for the false stereotyping of "stupid arabs with money" when it came to dealing with Iraqis.
    More like the Iraqis have fallen for the Ukrainians.

    Ukroboronprom is like that 2nd hand car dealership on the outskirts of town with the shifty dealer. Everyone knows its bad news, and you get only what you pay for, sometimes less; but some people still like to fancy their luck securing a bargain, they think that they are smart enough to avoid getting ripped-off.
    Well Iraq has been taught a lesson I guess.

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