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    Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

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    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:52 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:interesting news.

    Whilst in theory the BTR4 is a better vehicle, the Ukrainians have really disappointed with their production schedules and quality... there was a potential $2.5Bn military agreement between Iraq and Ukraine... but its all gone to hell now.
    Yep that's what I thought immediately of too; the Ukrainian BTR-4 contract.
    SO what's the status on it anyway? Will it be cancelled? How many vehicles have been delivered and put into service? Will any more deliveries be accepted and the current contract fulfilled?
    about 150 have been delivered out of the order for 420 (they should ALL have been delivered by now as per contract). Iraq has paid for the ones delivered, but they are not in active use, having been driven just in the army day parade in January 2013... and  since then the 5th mechanised division (who are supposed to receive all the 420 BTR4s) have been driving around in HUMVEES and MRAPs... Iraqis were planning on mechanising another 2-3 divisions with further batches of these... looks like NONE of the Mechanised divisions will end up with BTR4s now.

    I don't know what's happened with the "Barrier" anti tank missiles either... many have been delivered, but without BTR4s, they are useless. And now Iraq is buying a large batch of KORNETs from Russia, so the future for the "Barrier" missile looks bleak indeed!

    Its a shame really. The BTR4 looked really great on paper. remote turret with 4x missiles and 30mm, rearanged interior with rear ramp, decent armour and the anti-RPG shield, thermal night vision, air con etc... for about $700k each.
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    mack8

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  mack8 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:41 pm

    Didn't realized the background of the ukrainian deals (i.e the american involvement).

    Reading the news about potentially russian companies to modernize iraqi "BMPs and BTRs", would be a slap in the face for the ukrainians if those BTR-4s will be fixed/upgraded by a russian company.
    In other news, first group of iraqi Mi-35 pilots and maintainers (presumably) are nearing the completion of their training in Russia at Torzhok. So, no Mi-35 (or Mi-28) delivery this month ?
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    Viktor

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Viktor on Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:04 am

    About the upcoming delivery of Mi-35M Iraq

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/622741.html

    a89

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  a89 on Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:31 pm

    I will put this piece of news here, because it's related:

    SE Pacifica is free to go. It seems that Irak is going to cancel the contract.

    http://dumskaya.net/news/irak-okonchatelno-otkazalsya-ot-ukrainskih-brone-029663/

    Now negotiations are taking place with Russia for BTR-82:

    http://vpk-news.ru/news/17578
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:16 pm

    a89 wrote:I will put this piece of news here, because it's related:

    SE Pacifica is free to go. It seems that Irak is going to cancel the contract.

    http://dumskaya.net/news/irak-okonchatelno-otkazalsya-ot-ukrainskih-brone-029663/

    Now negotiations are taking place with Russia for BTR-82:

    http://vpk-news.ru/news/17578
    So pretty much as predicted in this very thread then. Nice unshaven

    And that story is just hillarious. Ukrainian government is avoiding contact with its own arms transport vessel. Dude..
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    TR1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  TR1 on Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:31 pm

    Tarsenko is going to kill himself.

    Lol!

    a89

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  a89 on Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:10 pm

    Tarsenko is going to kill himself.


    He has not made any comment on his blog yet.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:59 pm

    Mi-35 intended for Iraq undergoing flight test at Rostvertol plant in Rostov-on-Don.


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    Viktor

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Viktor on Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:27 pm

    This is a contract on fast track - nice to see that all is going well and I hope there will be more of the same Very Happy 

    Iraq started receiving Russian weapons on the contract in 2012
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    Viktor

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Viktor on Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:43 pm

    Where there is a will, there is a way. Very Happy 

    Iraq plans to expand military-technical cooperation with Russia
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    mack8

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  mack8 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:18 pm

    First Mi-35Ms ready for delivery (photos from today or few days ago):
    http://aviaforum.ru/showpost.php?p=1434346&postcount=4466
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    Viktor

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Viktor on Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:44 am

    First pic and first 4 delivered 





    In pictures: loading four Mi-35 helicopters for Iraq
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    mack8

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  mack8 on Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:00 am

    Iraqi Mi-35M on TV:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fgAWkXbLGU

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:47 am

    only 3 Mi35M were shown on Iraqi TV being accepted.

    what happened with the 4th?
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    mack8

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  mack8 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:03 pm

    Perhaps kept as a spare for the flying display, or they were still working on it? All sources i've read mention 4 delivered, with 2 more to go by the end of this year apparently.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:12 am

    confirmation that there were indeed 4.


    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:36 pm

    nothing... no idea what's happening. That's the usual course of action in Iraq. Everything goes quiet, then a frenzy of activity, then quiet again.

    Big issue of course is April 2014 general election.

    That election will be followed by at least 6 months of haggling between political blocks to build a "coallition" to rule.

    in the meantime expect terrorist attacks to take a major hike up.

    the MOD are preparing themselves for that issue.

    The air force is still not recruiting enough young pilots and ground crews, they are having a hard time inducting all the new hardware that is on order already... F16, T50, Mi35, Mi28 and others.... they are upgrading and refurbishing old airbases, building new HQ's for army divisions, new transport and logistics hubs, ammo factories etc... all at once.

    The government is concerned mostly about improving the city infrastructures... after Iraq went through another year of floods... so expect military stuff to take "second place" whilst everyone scrambles to get reelected.

    then in the summer of 2014... expect the focus to go back to the military again.
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    TR1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  TR1 on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:46 pm

    Ah, damn.

    Thanks for fast reply, hope we get some clarity soon.

    And some Mi-28s in Iraqi desert colors.

    EDIT: Why the terrorist attack increase? Something to do with Syria...or?
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    mack8

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  mack8 on Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:56 pm

    Considering iraqi pilots flew in MiG-35 bort 747, they surely must have tested Su-30MK2 too (the other fighter under consideration). I wonder if anything will come out of this. RSK MiG must have a dozen or so of SyAAF intended MiG-35s laying around doing nothing (and going nowhere anytime soon apparently) and crucially earning nothing, so a fast initial delivery won't be  a problem. On the other hand I would expect Su-30MK2s to be delivered starting about 2 years or so after contract inking.

    No word from RSK MiG and KnAAPO insiders about potential negotiations with Iraq?

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:25 pm

    terrorist attacks to destabilise the political process mainly.

    There was a news item today that Mi28 pilots have finished their training now, and the first helos expected next month... I wonder if this is corroborated by any pics from factory? certainly Maliki would love to have 2-3 night hunters on the army day parade on the 6th January... but somehow I doubt it now.


    Regarding fighters. Iraqis now have 2 "light fighters"... F16 and T50IQ (which is quite a close match in capability really, can carry 5T ordnance on 9 hardpoints, AESA radar and the same Sniper pod as F16 etc...).

    I would have thought the MiG35 would be a nice high end addition to that... SU35 seems too large for Iraq's requirements, we have plenty of airbases within 200km of each other scattered around the country.

    There could be a "course of action" of Maliki buying a whole load of weapons BEFORE the elections and paying deposits on them before the inevitable political paralysis of spring-summer-autumn 2014 until a new coalition government is established.  who knows?? The military are certainly desperate for more money to fund new staff positions and new weapons.
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    TR1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  TR1 on Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:47 pm

    I think they should dump (if possible) F-16 at this point, brand spanking new T-50s make that plane obsolete as far as Iraq is concerned.

    The thing about Su-35 is, yes you pay a premium for the size (materials, fuel, etc) but there are undeniable gains aside from needlessly massive range.
    Massive radar aperture, superior payload-to-range ratio compared to the smaller guys, physically the bird can carry something huge like Brahmos, more hardpoints/more flexibility, etc etc.

    MiG-35 is screwed by the fact that it is simply not ready until ~2 years at the least for serial production to start. At best. By then Super Flanker would enjoy a functioning serial line in the comparatively lavish (recently modernized) environment of KnAAZ, and an advantage of being operated en-masse by the VVS.

    Don't get me wrong, I would looove to see Iraq go for the MiG-35, but the Su-35 is just in a better place right now.
    Though the way you make it out, the MiG-35 might just be ready by the time they decide to buy a fighter from Russia firmly.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:50 pm

    they've already paid 100% up front for all 36 F16s. you think Uncle Sam gives refunds?  Twisted Evil 
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    mack8

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  mack8 on Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:20 am

    The Su-35 is so far the only aircraft available to be able to oppose the forthcoming RSAF F-15SA on more than equal terms, and could successfully oppose IAF F-35A, especially in a defensive set-up (backed by these new russian EW gizmos made available for export recently). It could also lob PGMs from something like 250km in case of need if i'm correct, but it's more of an air-superiority fighter imo. And costs as much btw, at least comparative to other russian aircraft.

    As for the MiG-35, i've never understood the part abut the industry "not being ready" to build them. They have ALREADY made- or are available to be assembled- about a dozen for Syria, and the K/KUB are virtually similar airframe wise, how many of those have been made so far, something like 30, so why the delay? I can only surmise that they must be talking about the AESA radar, and possibly associated equipment like that targeting pod etc. Perhaps VVS only wants them with the AESA and prefer to have the Zhuk MSA in a cheaper (not by much apparently though) SMT airframe, can't figure out what's the story here.

    Imo, i see absolutely no problem of RSK MiG being ready to begin to build and supply MiG-35s fitted with the Zhuk MSA immediately, in addition to the syrian ones.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:50 am

    Mig-35s have been shown, but if we remember the plastic models at that Indian air show they were different from the flying models with different wings and other bits and bobs no doubt.

    I suspect what we have been seeing is a hand made prototype that is not fully ready for mass production let alone pre-serial production.

    The Russian AF wants to wait 2 years till it is ready and in the mean time it will buy cheaper newbuilds of SMT/M2 standard.

    Note they call them SMT new builds but they will more likely be M2s with cheaper components as a stopgap till the Mig-35s are ready.

    When it is ready it will be an excellent multirole aircraft that will serve Iraq well and will have the added advantage that it will be seriously underestimated by any opponent.

    With an AESA radar fitted it should be able to carry and effectively use RVV-BD as detection of fighter sized aircraft at 200km should be fairly straight forward. For larger aircraft like AWACS and troop transports etc they will be a very serious threat.


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    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:11 pm

    the parliament defence and security committee are already up in arms about the T50IQ deal and its prices (its only been a few hours since signature). I wonder if it will go the way of the L159BQ... in which case there is hope that the Yak130 has a chance if its priced "fairly".

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