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    Russian Ground Forces: News #1

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:49 am

    Cool... if you slip the gate guard a 50 can you fire one of the guns? Twisted Evil
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:51 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kJNAoSD1n1Q#!

    Kavkaz 2012 is underway.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:58 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ud4zgIAjglY

    Awesome night video of Tochka, Iskander, Smerch @ Kavkaz-2012.
    Mr.Kalishnikov47
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    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 14 Empty Modern army of Russia - Future Equipment

    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:20 am

    Based on a separate infantry brigade stationed in the suburbs, in the development of the military operation conducted preliminary testing of promising elements of military equipment ground troops, designed a number of enterprises of the domestic industry in accordance with the terms of reference for the development work (R & D), "Warrior."

    The soldiers started intensive daily use samples of military equipment arrow, scout of the driver during the course of combat training. It is also planned to hold company tactical exercises with units equipped with these kits.

    In total, the set includes 40 upgraded or newly created elements from weapons to clothing and equipment and personal protection, protection from injurious effects of weapons of mass destruction and non-lethal weapons.
    (Google Translate)

    Full article here

    http://www.spec-naz.org/news/7/v_podmoskove_ispytyvaetsya_perspektivnaya_boevaya_ekipirovka_voennosluzhashchikh_sukhoputnykh_voysk/

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 14 Z111

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 14 Z11

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 14 Z211

    Nice Gear  What a Face attack

    It's interesting to see them using the AK-107 instead of the AK-12
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:32 am

    Ak12 is still in testing... I would assume that in 2 years time it will become part of the super soldier program.

    Nice find... thanks for posting... Smile
    Mr.Kalishnikov47
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    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:20 am

    http://en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20120926/176237409.html

    English version

    GarryB wrote:Ak12 is still in testing... I would assume that in 2 years time it will become part of the super soldier program.

    Here's hoping
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    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:22 am

    Cool infograph, courtesy of Rianovosti

    [img]Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 14 Z311[/img]
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    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:07 pm

    19th Motorized Infantry Brigade Took Several Losses During Kavkaz-2012

    The exercises "Caucasus-2012" 19th Motorized Infantry Brigade, stationed in Vladikavkaz, lost three soldiers - one killed and two seriously injured. In addition, the technique irretrievably lost - one T-90 tank, one BMP-3 and are motor. Seven other APCs, tanks and vehicles require a long overhaul.

    - Contract soldiers killed by careless handling of a grenade RPG-7. The grenade exploded in his right hands. And the two soldiers at the call got caught in automobile tractor cab on the march, - the "News" control officer of the Southern Military District.

    Brigade column was put forward to the border with South Ossetia. Truck "KamAZ" pulling a trailer with the BMP-3 without a crew, and the tractor driver failed in challenging mountain roads. As a result, the tractor and trailer overturned and fell into the abyss. Also on the move was lost tank "Ural".

    According to the officer, the losses in technology began in the team before the start of the exercise. In place of permanent deployment remained inoperative three T-90, 20 BMP-3 and almost all the equipment engineering battalion. Because engineering units are equipped with the most technology, the neboegotovnost a battalion (about 50 units) caused draw conclusions Command.

    Tanks and armored vehicles broke down at the stage of preparation for the exercise. On one BMP completely incapacitated engine, one tank has been dropped from the trailer under the bridge, causing it towers, broken internal equipment and the engine (beyond repair), and another two tanks ruptured barrels of the guns. This can happen if the tank gun sticks in the ground on rough terrain. In the trunk rammed earth, and at the first shot of his breaks, as in the film "White Tiger."

    During the exercise the men themselves drowned in crossing the river two BMP-3. They got by tractors, but the depth was such that one armored vehicle was water hammer. Now it can only be restored to the factory.

    On stage live-fire a driver ditched his engine BMP. He did not check the plug on the oil tank, oil spilled, and fighter started the car and hit the gas.

    In management SOUTH "Izvestia" explained that all the human and material losses due to lack of training approved manpower and imperfect logistics.
    (Google Translate)

    Rest of the article here http://izvestia.ru/news/536437#ixzz27mRccHIn

    Very unfortunate news. R.I.P to the dead and quick recovery to the wounded.
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    Post  TR1 Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:11 pm

    Izvestia....lets wait before we confirm this.

    Irretrievably losing a tank is effing hard.

    Engine broke beyond repair? THat is just stupid. Replace the engine....though I dont see how a BMP-3 engine breaks beyond repair during training.
    A truck falling off a road is sadly not unheard of, in that terrain.
    Mr.Kalishnikov47
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    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:36 pm

    GarryB wrote:I rather doubt they would have their best trained special forces acting as clothes horses for the media...

    Special forces or not, a soldier should be trained in the use of proper trigger discipline.

    Besides when there is no bolt in the weapon... "trigger discipline" is just anal.

    He's not the only one with his finger on the trigger.

    Anyways, these photos are obviously staged, and there could be any number of reasons why they have their fingers on the trigger, so it's not really worth discussing.

    Izvestia....lets wait before we confirm this.

    Irretrievably losing a tank is effing hard.

    Engine broke beyond repair? THat is just stupid. Replace the engine....though I dont see how a BMP-3 engine breaks beyond repair during training.
    A truck falling off a road is sadly not unheard of, in that terrain.

    Lets hope you're right. This probably doesn't mean much but Gur Khan just posted the article on his blog.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:40 am

    Special forces or not, a soldier should be trained in the use of proper trigger discipline.

    And what is proper trigger discipline? Not explain it to me, but I mean who decides?

    He's not the only one with his finger on the trigger.

    Anyways, these photos are obviously staged, and there could be any number of reasons why they have their fingers on the trigger, so it's not really worth discussing.

    It is a photo shoot, we don't even know if these rifles are real or practise dummies. The photographer might have asked them to hold the weapons that way and "be ready for action".

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    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:27 am

    GarryB wrote:And what is proper trigger discipline? Not explain it to me, but I mean who decides?

    I don't know, but whoever they are, they have decided that unless you plan to fire, keeping your finger on the trigger is not proper trigger discipline. It can (and has) led to some very unfortunate accidents in the past.

    I can't emphasize enough that I'm not accusing these soldiers of using poor trigger safety. As I've mentioned, this is a staged photo shoot, and they could have their fingers on the trigger for any number of reasons. Proper trigger discipline is an incredibly easy thing to teach, I see no reason why the modern-day Russian soldier wouldn't be taught to use it.

    It is a photo shoot, we don't even know if these rifles are real or practise dummies. The photographer might have asked them to hold the weapons that way and "be ready for action".

    Precisely.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:46 am

    Proper trigger discipline is an incredibly easy thing to teach, I see no reason why the modern-day Russian soldier wouldn't be taught to use it.

    And some people get it, but a lot of people don't.

    In a professional army where everyone chooses to be there, then their attitude to the rules is one thing, but in a conscript army where the first time they ever see a real gun is in basic training and they have little to no idea about what they are and what they are for then the mentality can be quite different.

    I go shooting with several friends, some of them are very careful with the firearms and some are not. One guy in particular wont even load the chamber till the target is in sight... and despite the fact that he sounds like the safest and most sensible... I never let him walk behind me when hunting.

    Usually the people most anal about trigger discipline is because they have lots of experience of NDs (negligent discharges) and the question you have to ask yourself is was it them or someone around them.

    Many militaries get quite slack and if there are no NDs then trigger discipline falls by the way side... guns don't just go off by accident and unless you are on guard duty there shouldn't be anything in the chamber anyway.
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    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:28 am

    In a professional army where everyone chooses to be there, then their attitude to the rules is one thing, but in a conscript army where the first time they ever see a real gun is in basic training and they have little to no idea about what they are and what they are for then the mentality can be quite different.

    I agree with many of the points you're making.

    Still, how hard could it be to tell your conscripts to keep their fingers off the trigger so they don't end up accidentally giving one of their buddies a vasectomy?
    Is the problem that the average conscripts aren't being properly trained in these safety measures? Or is the problem discipline? Or something else entirely?

    I don't mean to be rude, I just want to know the logic behind it. To me it just seems like an unnecessary risk.


    Last edited by Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:11 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Spelling & Grammar)
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:16 am

    Trigger discipline is one thing, but I personally think being aware of where the barrel is pointing is far more important than keeping ones finger off the trigger.

    Climbing through scrub I have often had situations where I have slipped and a significant branch has gone through the trigger guard on my rifle and I have heard the click that would have been a bang if I had had a round in the chamber... and there is nothing wrong with my finger discipline.

    Of course I don't have anything shooting back at me so I don't need to be able to shoot at an instant either, but there are plenty of photos around the place of western soldiers with fingers where they shouldn't be...
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    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:33 am

    GarryB wrote:Trigger discipline is one thing, but I personally think being aware of where the barrel is pointing is far more important than keeping ones finger off the trigger.

    Agreed, although I'd say a combination of both would be ideal.

    Of course I don't have anything shooting back at me so I don't need to be able to shoot at an instant either, but there are plenty of photos around the place of western soldiers with fingers where they shouldn't be...

    Actually, there was just very recently an incident where one of our soldiers accidentally shot and killed his teammate while (get a load of this) trying to cure the teammate's hiccups. It was a very tragic accident, and if anything enforces my belief that the importance of trigger discipline should be something instilled in the minds of new recruits.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:31 pm

    Unfortunately I have heard plenty of idiot stories... the common cure for hiccups is a scare... I would guess getting shot would rank as a pretty good scare.. Rolling Eyes

    I have heard of British soldiers playing with their pistols where one guy got a pencil and found it fitted down the barrel of his 9mm browning pistol. With an empty chamber when you pull the trigger the firing pin hits the base of the pencil and launches it out of the pistol barrel a few metres. His friend saw this and was amused and tried to shoot the pencil back at his mate but obviously forgot he had a live round in the chamber and promptly shot his mate with both a pencil and 9mm bullet.

    Of course sometimes lies are told to avoid responsibility... I remember reading about a US Police department that had very strict regulations on handling ammo. It turns out that a senior officer had claimed he had dropped a 9mm round and it just went off making a nice neat bullet hole in the ceiling. Of course anyone who didn't know much about guns might believe such a story but even just some basic knowledge about ammo suggests he is a liar.

    If you took a live 9mm bullet and put it in a vice and then tapped the primer with a nail punch it would not zip across the room and embed itself in the wall. The powder would burn, there would be a flash of smoke and flames and the bullet would drop to the ground. Just landing on the floor assuming it landed perfectly on a tack with enough force to set off the primer the shell case would be blow further back than the bullet would be blown forward because without the chamber and the barrel to allow the pressure to increase as soon as the bullet separated from the shell case the pressure would escape into the air and be wasted and neither the bullet nor the case would be accelerated anywhere let alone have the energy to embed themselves into the ceiling.
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    Post  Austin Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:07 pm

    Interview with Army Chief

    http://ria.ru/interview/20120928/761491265.html
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    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:21 am

    Ak12 is still in testing... I would assume that in 2 years time it will become part of the super soldier program.

    I should add that the Russian future combat equipment programs allow for several types of standard rifle and that Barmitsa I and II and Permyachka and now Ratnik all included several rifles as standard weapons.

    http://www.tsniitochmash.ru/equipment/barmitsa_02.html

    This is the weapon page for the Barmitsa system and the later systems have clearly added the AK-107, so it is no stretch for the next systems (Ratnik 2?) to include the AK12 if/when it passes its tests. Equally the Ratnik system seems to also include T-5000 sniper rifles and might have other new weapons like the ADS, and perhaps the RPG-32 amongst other weapons.

    note other pages include for protection:

    http://www.tsniitochmash.ru/equipment/barmitsa_01.html

    Power supply for electronics:

    http://www.tsniitochmash.ru/equipment/barmitsa_03.html

    C4IR (communications, UAV control, etc etc).

    http://www.tsniitochmash.ru/equipment/barmitsa_04.html

    Life support and transport (ie vest, backpack, sleeping bag, food etc:

    http://www.tsniitochmash.ru/equipment/barmitsa_05.html
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    Post  medo Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:11 am

    I would say, that a lot of parts of Ratnik equipment is for some time in armament. It seems Ratnik only complete all components in one whole complex. Many of them were tested in war in Chechnya.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:32 pm

    They started this new systemic approach quite a while ago and they have been through several iterations, so a lot of stuff might be the same, and a lot of stuff was probably dropped when better stuff became available... and that likely will be its future... as new bits become available they will be tested and if they are better they will replace older bits.

    In some situations the new stuff might get added and the old stuff kept for special use.

    For instance where all the new rifles have full length pic rails on top then the issue monocular image intensification scope can be put in front of a standard day scope for night use, or it can be hand held as a viewer, or attached to a mount on the helmet as a night vision monocular. Attached to another monocular and you have night vision goggles or take them off the helmet and add magnification lenses and you have night vision binoculars.

    As production increases the price of QWIP based thermal weapon sights will drop to the point where they will be cheaper than second generation II scopes and they can be issued instead.
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    Post  TR1 Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:43 pm

    Thank god for Twower!

    http://twower.livejournal.com/879143.html

    Here he examines the Izvestya article about losses during Kavkaz-2012. Twower visited the 19th OMSBR, and contacted some officers he knows in order to investigate the claims:

    -One soldier did die, but only one BMP needs repairs. The other tank and BMP losses are fabrication.
    -Two BMPs did sink during fording- but the crew was fine, and they were both raised. One on, a young driver did not turn off the engine in time, and there was some engine damage.
    -The solider who perished DID NOT die due to a malfunctioning RPG-7 warhead, but because he picked up an un-detonated rocket fired by aviation. The brigade spent some time in the area, and everyone was instructed NOT to touch munitions expended during the exercise...no one else suffered.

    Well, Izvestya continues to lose any credibility it ever had.
    Between this, and the utter fabrications Russian journalists made over Pacific Fleet training some time ago, thank god for Twower's blog.

    He also posted some nice pics.
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    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:54 pm

    Wow. Seriously, **** Izvstya.

    R.I.P to the dead soldier.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:30 am

    Sadly failing to follow instructions is a common cause of death... RIP to victim and his family.

    Russian media are getting more like western media every day... sadly.

    Is it just me or is it amusing that it takes a blogger to actually care about the truth compared with professional journalists who clearly are happy just to cut and paste...

    The whole thing about checks and balances keeping everyone in line and on their toes is nice rhetoric, but the media has lost the plot and basically is not doing its job any more.

    They probably fear that bloggers and the internet are going to cost them their jobs and it seems that the internet has certainly replaced the research departments of most media outlets... the amusing thing is that their solution to make news more exciting and entertaining they have turned it into an infomercial and pushed people actually wanting news to look on the internet for the real stuff.

    To the point where real news often comes from bloggers... even on the news channels themselves!
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    Post  Viktor Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:15 am

    Russian Army Day


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