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Log inHalf of Sevastopol Mistral is still in Russia. If France cancel this contract, Russia could still build the other half and finish this ship.
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Mistral News thread
medo- Posts : 4342
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George1- Posts : 18318
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medo wrote:Half of Sevastopol Mistral is still in Russia. If France cancel this contract, Russia could still build the other half and finish this ship.
that would be very funny
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Location : Croatia
Payback is a bitch = cost of two ships + 1.2 bin Euro 
France will have to pay Russia over € bln if Mistral contract severed-govt
France will have to pay Russia over € bln if Mistral contract severed-govt
macedonian- Posts : 1067
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So the French are backpedaling now, and saying that the Mistrals aren't military ships, but civilian (since they're selling them unarmed).
This is like watching a Benigni comedy of international politics.
OttawaCitizen
This is like watching a Benigni comedy of international politics.
Ottawa Citizen wrote:France Backtracks On Threat To Cancel Mistral-Class Ship Deal With Russia
PARIS — France views its two advanced helicopter carriers sold to Russia as unarmed civilian ships, and it is too early to say whether the €1.2 billion deal (US $1.7 billion) would be canceled in view of the Ukraine crisis, Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Wednesday.
“We will deliver civilian hulls,” Le Drian said at an aeronautics and defense conference organized by business daily Les Echos. “It’s a reality. The client can then arm the two ships. We will deliver, under the signed contract, a package which is not armed.”
OttawaCitizen
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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macedonian wrote:So the French are backpedaling now, and saying that the Mistrals aren't military ships, but civilian (since they're selling them unarmed).
This is like watching a Benigni comedy of international politics.Ottawa Citizen wrote:France Backtracks On Threat To Cancel Mistral-Class Ship Deal With Russia
PARIS — France views its two advanced helicopter carriers sold to Russia as unarmed civilian ships, and it is too early to say whether the €1.2 billion deal (US $1.7 billion) would be canceled in view of the Ukraine crisis, Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Wednesday.
“We will deliver civilian hulls,” Le Drian said at an aeronautics and defense conference organized by business daily Les Echos. “It’s a reality. The client can then arm the two ships. We will deliver, under the signed contract, a package which is not armed.”
OttawaCitizen
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Let's see if Hollande is stupid enough to continue poking and prodding the bear, I mean he already has the lowest approval rating of any French president in the history of the 5th republic!
Vann7- Posts : 5385
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magnumcromagnon wrote:macedonian wrote:So the French are backpedaling now, and saying that the Mistrals aren't military ships, but civilian (since they're selling them unarmed).
This is like watching a Benigni comedy of international politics.Ottawa Citizen wrote:France Backtracks On Threat To Cancel Mistral-Class Ship Deal With Russia
PARIS — France views its two advanced helicopter carriers sold to Russia as unarmed civilian ships, and it is too early to say whether the €1.2 billion deal (US $1.7 billion) would be canceled in view of the Ukraine crisis, Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Wednesday.
“We will deliver civilian hulls,” Le Drian said at an aeronautics and defense conference organized by business daily Les Echos. “It’s a reality. The client can then arm the two ships. We will deliver, under the signed contract, a package which is not armed.”
OttawaCitizen
I don't Know how can Russia not see a major danger for their security ordering Warships from France ,the right hand of US and UK empire. The Mistral will come with surprises , tracking devices that will allow to easily monitor it from satellite any part of the world. And they can easily record the mistral signal ,shape into a cruise missile. Russia better cancel it and save that money for a super stealth cruiser..and name it Catherine the Great.. in honor of crimea which she conquered it .
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Let's see if Hollande is stupid enough to continue poking and prodding the bear, I mean he already has the lowest approval rating of any French president in the history of the 5th republic!
flamming_python- Posts : 8988
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Join date : 2012-01-30
What advantage would there be of placing Mistrals in Northern Fleet as opposed to Pacific?
To reiterate - their main uses are as:
1) Transports for marine forces and their heavy equipment, supplies.
2) Amphibious landing vessels and C4I, assault vessels for such operations
3) Hospital ships
4) Disaster relief & humanitarian operations
5) Anti-surface and anti-sub capabilities given by their helicopter wing
As anyone can see, half their utility is in peace-time, and most of the rest is suited towards low-intensity conflicts. So putting them all the way up in the Northern fleet, because of the modest anti-surface and anti-sub capability offered by their Ka-52 wing - seems like a non-optimal decision.
They can do the same thing in the BSF, and with many other advantages besides.
Basing them in the BSF, with one of them assigned to the Mediterranean task force at any one time; will give them ideal access to many possible areas of operations including Georgia, Ukraine, North Africa, Syria, etc... basically most of the hot-spots that Russia is involved in or can get involved in - border around the Mediterranean or Black Sea.
It will also allow them to make port calls in friendly countries such as Greece, Cyprus, Algeria, Italy, Turkey, Syria, etc...
While at the same time, if they need to go to the Carribean or South America, it won't take them any longer than if they were departing from Murmansk.
To reiterate - their main uses are as:
1) Transports for marine forces and their heavy equipment, supplies.
2) Amphibious landing vessels and C4I, assault vessels for such operations
3) Hospital ships
4) Disaster relief & humanitarian operations
5) Anti-surface and anti-sub capabilities given by their helicopter wing
As anyone can see, half their utility is in peace-time, and most of the rest is suited towards low-intensity conflicts. So putting them all the way up in the Northern fleet, because of the modest anti-surface and anti-sub capability offered by their Ka-52 wing - seems like a non-optimal decision.
They can do the same thing in the BSF, and with many other advantages besides.
Basing them in the BSF, with one of them assigned to the Mediterranean task force at any one time; will give them ideal access to many possible areas of operations including Georgia, Ukraine, North Africa, Syria, etc... basically most of the hot-spots that Russia is involved in or can get involved in - border around the Mediterranean or Black Sea.
It will also allow them to make port calls in friendly countries such as Greece, Cyprus, Algeria, Italy, Turkey, Syria, etc...
While at the same time, if they need to go to the Carribean or South America, it won't take them any longer than if they were departing from Murmansk.
GarryB- Posts : 38999
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They are useful as command ships and as the value of the arctic increases for Russia it will become more important to have mobile flexible forces in both its northern and pacific fleets.
Moving groups of Marines to places around Russias arctic frontier make rather more sense than being able to deploy them rapidly to the Med or Africa.
There is nothing for them to do in the Black Sea Fleet, but in the northern fleet they can protect ports and coastal areas as well as oil and gas platforms from Greenies and those more sinister.
They will likely end up with two Ivan Grens which means likely two amphibious landing craft in the BSF anyway.
Moving groups of Marines to places around Russias arctic frontier make rather more sense than being able to deploy them rapidly to the Med or Africa.
There is nothing for them to do in the Black Sea Fleet, but in the northern fleet they can protect ports and coastal areas as well as oil and gas platforms from Greenies and those more sinister.
They will likely end up with two Ivan Grens which means likely two amphibious landing craft in the BSF anyway.
TheArmenian- Posts : 1880
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- Post n°334
What advantage would there be of placing Mistrals in Northern Fleet as opposed to Pacific?
TheArmenian Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:19 am
GarryB wrote:They are useful as command ships and as the value of the arctic increases for Russia it will become more important to have mobile flexible forces in both its northern and pacific fleets.
Moving groups of Marines to places around Russias arctic frontier make rather more sense than being able to deploy them rapidly to the Med or Africa.
There is nothing for them to do in the Black Sea Fleet, but in the northern fleet they can protect ports and coastal areas as well as oil and gas platforms from Greenies and those more sinister.
They will likely end up with two Ivan Grens which means likely two amphibious landing craft in the BSF anyway.
Indeed. They have not much to do in the Black Sea because any point in that sea is no more than 300 km from the Crimea or Novorossysk or the Sochi coast. The Ivan Gren, Alligators and Ropuchas are sufficient there.
With the current worldwide sate of affairs, a Mistral type ship would be very useful in the Mediterranean. The 2 ships can be rotated there from The North or Pacific fleets.
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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That Hollande guy is one piece of work - in any way it was and still is a win win situation for Russia
"Mistral" will be delivered to the Russian Navy at the time, sure USC
"Mistral" will be delivered to the Russian Navy at the time, sure USC
medo- Posts : 4342
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http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/49221/
The "TOPOL" part from SEVASTOPOL is in water.
The "TOPOL" part from SEVASTOPOL is in water.
Hannibal Barca- Posts : 1443
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The spend with which the Mistrals were constructed is really encouraging.
George1- Posts : 18318
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French Warship Deliveries to Russia Not Affected by Sanctions
UNITED NATIONS, April 30 (RIA Novosti) – The delivery of two French warships to Russia will not be affected by the current EU sanctions imposed in light of the situation in Ukraine, French Permanent Representative to the UN Gerard Araud told RIA Novosti Wednesday.
"At the moment they are not affected by the sanctions," he said, adding that the sanctions are only target individuals.
"Of course, if there are new sanctions, they should be respected, but so far sanctions do not affect the deliveries," Araud confirmed.
In 2011, Russia and France signed a contract worth 1.2 billion euros for the construction of two Mistral-class helicopter carriers for the Russian Navy. The first ship, the Vladivostok, built at the STX shipyard in Saint-Nazaire, is due to be delivered by the end of the year and the second, the Sevastopol, is scheduled to be handed over next year.
The ships, to be commissioned into Russia's Pacific Fleet, are capable of each carrying 16 helicopters, four landing craft, 70 armored vehicles, and 450 soldiers.
UNITED NATIONS, April 30 (RIA Novosti) – The delivery of two French warships to Russia will not be affected by the current EU sanctions imposed in light of the situation in Ukraine, French Permanent Representative to the UN Gerard Araud told RIA Novosti Wednesday.
"At the moment they are not affected by the sanctions," he said, adding that the sanctions are only target individuals.
"Of course, if there are new sanctions, they should be respected, but so far sanctions do not affect the deliveries," Araud confirmed.
In 2011, Russia and France signed a contract worth 1.2 billion euros for the construction of two Mistral-class helicopter carriers for the Russian Navy. The first ship, the Vladivostok, built at the STX shipyard in Saint-Nazaire, is due to be delivered by the end of the year and the second, the Sevastopol, is scheduled to be handed over next year.
The ships, to be commissioned into Russia's Pacific Fleet, are capable of each carrying 16 helicopters, four landing craft, 70 armored vehicles, and 450 soldiers.
TR1- Posts : 5435
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medo wrote:http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/49221/
The "TOPOL" part from SEVASTOPOL is in water.
What is very interesting is news that Sevastopol will have SIGMA instead of the French Zenit (like Vladivostock).
Lots of confusion about the information control systems.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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TR1 wrote:medo wrote:http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/49221/
The "TOPOL" part from SEVASTOPOL is in water.
What is very interesting is news that Sevastopol will have SIGMA instead of the French Zenit (like Vladivostock).
Lots of confusion about the information control systems.
I think some reasons for the different systems:
1.)To test SIGMA and how it stacks with competitor integration systems.
2.) To determine irregularities and Trojans in the Zenit system, if SIGMA greatly outperforms Zenit when it wasn't expected to by SIGMA designers and or tech experts account, than most likely that indicates a sabotaged system probably at the hands of NATO intelligence. Another possibility that the Zenit system works fine on the surface but in the background it might be sending vital information that's compromising the ship's position, communications, load out, destination, condition and status, current mission and objectives, and if SIGMA does not have the same irregularities in communication transmissions, than that might indicate industrial sabotage most likely by the hands of NATO.
GarryB- Posts : 38999
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Or it might just be that they want a ship for international operations that will work with NATO and other foreign vessels in certain missions like earthquakes and tidal waves and other natural disasters and its compatibility might be useful.
Equally to fully test an operating system you really need to install it on a computer and use it for a week and find out what you still can do and what you can't do. What is easier to do and what is harder or can't be done.
If it is full of bugs then any signal transmissions can be traced and disabled... plus putting it in the Pacific should keep it away from European interference.
Operations could include French colonies in the Pacific if French vessels are not available.
I see it as a chance to work more closely with France in the global naval sphere, as well as a chance to have a thorough test of a foreign system.
I suspect any features deemed worth copying would be added to Sigma... systems are not set in stone and evolve over time, so experience with a very different system will effect how it evolves and grows.
Equally to fully test an operating system you really need to install it on a computer and use it for a week and find out what you still can do and what you can't do. What is easier to do and what is harder or can't be done.
If it is full of bugs then any signal transmissions can be traced and disabled... plus putting it in the Pacific should keep it away from European interference.
Operations could include French colonies in the Pacific if French vessels are not available.
I see it as a chance to work more closely with France in the global naval sphere, as well as a chance to have a thorough test of a foreign system.
I suspect any features deemed worth copying would be added to Sigma... systems are not set in stone and evolve over time, so experience with a very different system will effect how it evolves and grows.
George1- Posts : 18318
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Russia’s Mistral Warships to Be Based in Pacific Port
MOSCOW, May 13 (RIA Novosti) – A source in the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces has told RIA Novosti Russia hasn’t changed its plans as to the deployment of its brand-new Mistral-class helicopter carriers in the Pacific Ocean.
“Plans of the Navy, Defense Ministry and the General Staff remain unchanged. Warships of the Mistral class will have their home port in Vladivostok,” the source said Tuesday.
Vladivostok is Russia’s southeastern port city close to China and is considered the home port of the Russian Pacific Fleet.
Earlier in the day, Black Sea Fleet’s Admiral Alexander Vitko said the French-made amphibious vessels could be moored in Crimea.
The source refuted this claim, saying that Mistral ships required special infrastructure due to their sheer size, and construction was already underway in Vladivostok.
A Mistral-class warship is capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing vessels, 70 armored vehicles, and 450 personnel. Its water displacement when fully loaded reaches 21,000 tons. The helicopter carrier can go at a speed of over 18 knots.
The first ships were constructed within the framework of a Russian-French deal at the Saint-Nazaire Wharf in France.
MOSCOW, May 13 (RIA Novosti) – A source in the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces has told RIA Novosti Russia hasn’t changed its plans as to the deployment of its brand-new Mistral-class helicopter carriers in the Pacific Ocean.
“Plans of the Navy, Defense Ministry and the General Staff remain unchanged. Warships of the Mistral class will have their home port in Vladivostok,” the source said Tuesday.
Vladivostok is Russia’s southeastern port city close to China and is considered the home port of the Russian Pacific Fleet.
Earlier in the day, Black Sea Fleet’s Admiral Alexander Vitko said the French-made amphibious vessels could be moored in Crimea.
The source refuted this claim, saying that Mistral ships required special infrastructure due to their sheer size, and construction was already underway in Vladivostok.
A Mistral-class warship is capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing vessels, 70 armored vehicles, and 450 personnel. Its water displacement when fully loaded reaches 21,000 tons. The helicopter carrier can go at a speed of over 18 knots.
The first ships were constructed within the framework of a Russian-French deal at the Saint-Nazaire Wharf in France.
macedonian- Posts : 1067
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France May Review Mistral Warship Contract With Russia in October
RIA wrote:WASHINGTON, May 14 (RIA Novosti) – France must legally fulfill its contract with Russia for the delivery of two Mistral helicopter-carrying warships, but the decision could still be reviewed, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said while speaking in Washington on Tuesday.
"The signed contracts are being acted upon ... From the judicial point of view, we cannot allow ourselves not to act upon them," Fabius said.
"The final decision will be made in October," he said, adding that October is when the legal aspects of the deal could be reviewed.
Fabius hinted at US-imposed pressure to cancel the 1.2 billion euro ($1.6 billion) deal as part of the sanctions against Russia following its reunification with Crimea, the Black Sea peninsula formerly part of Ukraine. He earlier said cancelling the contract would harm France more than Russia.
"France doesn't need lessons in harshness from anyone," he said.
Under a June 2011 contract signed between Russia and France, the first French Mistral-class amphibious assault ship, the Vladivostok, will be delivered to Russia by the end of the year, while the second ship, the Sevastopol, is due to arrive next year. The ships are capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing craft, 70 armored vehicles, and 450 soldiers and are expected to be deployed with Russia’s Pacific Fleet.
RIA Novosti
Sujoy- Posts : 2310
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Tender Issued For Installation of Comms System on MISTRAL
Zivo- Posts : 1487
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US lawmakers urge France to sell Mistral warships to NATO, not Russia
http://rt.com/news/162412-france-warships-sale-russia/
I doubt that will happen, but it certainly will deter Russia from further NATO-state purchases.
http://rt.com/news/162412-france-warships-sale-russia/
I doubt that will happen, but it certainly will deter Russia from further NATO-state purchases.
macedonian- Posts : 1067
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Zivo wrote:US lawmakers urge France to sell Mistral warships to NATO, not Russia
http://rt.com/news/162412-france-warships-sale-russia/
I doubt that will happen, but it certainly will deter Russia from further NATO-state purchases.
Not only Russia, the French will have problems selling weapons to anyone outside NATO (or US satellite states). Even if the deal goes through in the end, with all this talk of canceling the contract under American pressure potential clients will be wary of making a deal with France.
Such is the life of a puppet state.
The once proud French nation under de Gaulle is now a shadow of what it used to be.
In the distant future the guillotine might make a reappearance, and I'd be very afraid if I was Hollande or Sarcozy...
Asf- Posts : 471
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That's why Marine Le Pen becomes popular todayThe once proud French nation under de Gaulle is now a shadow of what it used to be.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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macedonian wrote:Zivo wrote:US lawmakers urge France to sell Mistral warships to NATO, not Russia
http://rt.com/news/162412-france-warships-sale-russia/
I doubt that will happen, but it certainly will deter Russia from further NATO-state purchases.
Not only Russia, the French will have problems selling weapons to anyone outside NATO (or US satellite states). Even if the deal goes through in the end, with all this talk of canceling the contract under American pressure potential clients will be wary of making a deal with France.
Such is the life of a puppet state.
The once proud French nation under de Gaulle is now a shadow of what it used to be.
In the distant future the guillotine might make a reappearance, and I'd be very afraid if I was Hollande or Sarcozy...
...and I'm sure India is watching very closely to the Mistral deal, I think Modi should reconsider the Rafale orders considering the logistics chain, consistent rise in cost, and the potentially "unreliable" arms trading nation partner. License production of Mig-35's with their advanced AESA radars and their advanced 3-D TVC's should make the Mig-35's very capable aircraft, as well as a cheaper plane to field, not just in buying but in the greater logistics chain (India already fields Mig-29 variants in its airforce with the ability to share parts and spares), and most importantly far less-likely to go under arms embargo.
macedonian- Posts : 1067
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magnumcromagnon wrote:macedonian wrote:Zivo wrote:US lawmakers urge France to sell Mistral warships to NATO, not Russia
http://rt.com/news/162412-france-warships-sale-russia/
I doubt that will happen, but it certainly will deter Russia from further NATO-state purchases.
Not only Russia, the French will have problems selling weapons to anyone outside NATO (or US satellite states). Even if the deal goes through in the end, with all this talk of canceling the contract under American pressure potential clients will be wary of making a deal with France.
Such is the life of a puppet state.
The once proud French nation under de Gaulle is now a shadow of what it used to be.
In the distant future the guillotine might make a reappearance, and I'd be very afraid if I was Hollande or Sarcozy...
...and I'm sure India is watching very closely to the Mistral deal, I think Modi should reconsider the Rafale orders considering the logistics chain, consistent rise in cost, and the potentially "unreliable" arms trading nation partner. License production of Mig-35's with their advanced AESA radars and their advanced 3-D TVC's should make the Mig-35's very capable aircraft, as well as a cheaper plane to field, not just in buying but in the greater logistics chain (India already fields Mig-29 variants in its airforce with the ability to share parts and spares), and most importantly far less-likely to go under arms embargo.
If the Rafale deal turns sour, and India ends up ordering MIGs instead, drinks are on me!
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Asf wrote:That's why Marine Le Pen becomes popular todayThe once proud French nation under de Gaulle is now a shadow of what it used to be.
Marie LePen is no Charles DeGaulle by any stretch of the imagination, but she's obviously playing on the common French desire to leave and oppose NATO like DeGaulle, the French people recognize that NATO is nothing more than a puppet-state vassal system, theirs no alliance of equal partners but an alliance of lackeys, toady's, lap dogs, and in Greece's case indentured servitude, all to please the master of the plantation named Uncle Sam.
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