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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:49 pm

    Project Canada wrote:

    Top Russian Politician Nikolai Starikov: We need to ban abortions in Russia




    In my opinion this is the right way to go for Russia, strong family traditions is essential for a strong country, abortions i think only serves to erode people's potential to make families and results to lower population growth all over Russia. If this trend is to change, people's attitude towards family building needs to be changed radically, I understand that doing this right away will give American backed NGOs excuse to protest and oppose such initiative, the government needs to find innovative ways to implement these measures, even if it means a slow process, as long as in the long run these are strongly implemented. russia

    Idiotic approach.

    In order to ban abortions without causing a sh*tstorm and making yourself look like a moron you need to first spend couple of decades promoting stuff like condoms and contraceptives in order to reduce the demand for abortions in the first place. And this is something that both NGOs nad religious figures would would help you with.

    Only the you can entertain idea of abortion ban. But everyone loves cutting corners and going full retard.

    Firebird

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    Migration of Westerners to Russia/CIS?

    Post  Firebird on Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:17 pm

    How do the Russian citizens here (and anyone else) feel about migration of Westerners to Russia?

    I thought such a thing would be a long way off. BUT its actually happening, albeit it would seem to a small extent. Usually location independent types (running their own businesses). Who are fed up with politically correct bullshit and fat women and masses of immigrants in W Europe and the N America. Graduate debts and poor job opports in the West are also factors they say. I can't really see how some/many of them will integrate but they are sure that moving to Asia/E European EU/Russia or Lat America is what they want to do.

    It seems a HUGE leap for them. And I really wonder if they've thought it out. BUT who knows. Perhaps an interesting trend will develop? One or two MMA fighters have been amongst the most notable migrants from the US.

    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:39 am

    Firebird wrote:How do the Russian citizens here (and anyone else) feel about migration of Westerners to Russia?

    I thought such a thing would be a long way off. BUT its actually happening, albeit it would seem to a small extent. Usually location independent types (running their own businesses). Who are fed up with politically correct bullshit and fat women and masses of immigrants in W Europe and the N America. Graduate debts and poor job opports in the West are also factors they say. I can't really see how some/many of them will integrate but they are sure that moving to Asia/E European EU/Russia or Lat America is what they want to do.

    It seems a HUGE leap for them. And I really wonder if they've thought it out. BUT who knows. Perhaps an interesting trend will develop? One or two MMA fighters have been amongst the most notable migrants from the US.
    Don't forget world-famous Russian actor Zherar Depard'yo.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:17 pm

    Firebird wrote:How do the Russian citizens here (and anyone else) feel about migration of Westerners to Russia?

    I thought such a thing would be a long way off. BUT its actually happening, albeit it would seem to a small extent. Usually location independent types (running their own businesses). Who are fed up with politically correct bullshit and fat women and masses of immigrants in W Europe and the N America. Graduate debts and poor job opports in the West are also factors they say. I can't really see how some/many of them will integrate but they are sure that moving to Asia/E European EU/Russia or Lat America is what they want to do.

    It seems a HUGE leap for them. And I really wonder if they've thought it out. BUT who knows. Perhaps an interesting trend will develop? One or two MMA fighters have been amongst the most notable migrants from the US.

    As you know I am not Russian but one look at data about Russia will tell you that it has been USA-style ''melting pot'' for probably longer than USA has existed. Only difference was the ingredients.

    This latest change in ingredients is nothing out of the ordinary. Same applies to any large country.

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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  OminousSpudd on Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:33 am

    Firebird wrote:How do the Russian citizens here (and anyone else) feel about migration of Westerners to Russia?

    I thought such a thing would be a long way off. BUT its actually happening, albeit it would seem to a small extent. Usually location independent types (running their own businesses). Who are fed up with politically correct bullshit and fat women and masses of immigrants in W Europe and the N America. Graduate debts and poor job opports in the West are also factors they say. I can't really see how some/many of them will integrate but they are sure that moving to Asia/E European EU/Russia or Lat America is what they want to do.

    It seems a HUGE leap for them. And I really wonder if they've thought it out. BUT who knows. Perhaps an interesting trend will develop? One or two MMA fighters have been amongst the most notable migrants from the US.
    Most Westerners migrating to Russia are going because they wish to make a life for themselves in a nation that actually encourages free-market economics. Westerners who have the mentality of wishing to build a future for themselves will be beneficial for Russia as a whole. Russia not subscribing to the social engineering the we in the West are witnessing as our civilization blows itself to bits is also probably a big plus. For me personally, being able to send my future children to school and not worrying about them being brainwashed on topics concerning sexuality and "gender-politics" would be welcomed heartily.

    [rant]As for the rest of the West, especially when concerning the majority of Yanks, when they finally (by finally, I mean at the end) wake up to realize that they are living in collapsing totalitarian states and wish to flee to places like Russia, I say close the borders. Even the growing alt-right movement rejects on principle that there exists another civilization outside of their own, completely dismissing the notion that Russia will emerge a cultural and economic superpower with the collapse of the West and preferring to subscribe to the thinking of the world descending into another Dark Age with the death of the "exceptional nation." [/rant]
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    Project Canada

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Project Canada on Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:35 am




    Over two-thirds of Russians oppose ban on abortions, poll shows

    An overwhelming majority of Russians are against an initiative by Christian pro-life activists promoting a total ban on abortions, a nationwide public opinion poll conducted soon after the plan’s launch reveals.
    According to the results of the research conducted by state-owned VTSIOM, 72 percent of Russian citizens are currently against a total legislative ban on abortions. Only 4 percent of respondents said they considered the procedure unacceptable under any circumstances.

    In addition, 70 percent of the Russian public opposes the proposal to exclude abortions from the list of operations covered by state healthcare insurance, while 21 percent said that they would support such move.

    When researchers asked Russians what negative consequences could emerge from an abortion ban, respondents named a sharp rise in illegal abortions, an increase in the number of orphans, higher infant mortality rate and poverty. Among those polled, 57 percent said that they knew people who had had abortions. One in 10 women who answered the questions said that she had personally undergone the procedure.

    The poll was conducted in mid-October, about two weeks after the ‘For Life’ public movement backed by the Russian Orthodox Church claimed that its petition for a complete ban on abortions in the country had been signed by over 300,000 people. The head of the movement, Sergey Chesnokov, also claimed that once this number reaches 1 million people, the document would be forwarded to the presidential administration.

    Apart from a legal ban on abortions, the authors of the petition are seeking broader and more-effective measures guaranteeing state support for pregnant women and families with small children.

    Patriarch Kirill of the Russian Orthodox Church has signed the petition, but his press service issued a special statement saying that he had done so as an ordinary citizen, and also explained that any Orthodox priest would do the same in the Patriarch’s place.

    Newly-appointed Russian Ombudsman for Children Rights Anna Kuznetsova also supported the campaign. Presidential Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov, meanwhile, told reporters that the Kremlin will not participate in the ongoing abortion discussion

    The existing Russian law on abortions is fairly liberal, but conservative lawmakers are attempting to tighten it. In May 2015, MPs representing the parliamentary majority United Russia party and the center-left opposition Fair Russia party drafted a bill that would limit state insurance payments for abortions, ban private clinics from performing them, and allow women to buy morning-after pills only on prescription after an obligatory health check. The motion has not yet passed through parliament.

    Currently Russia has a state-sponsored anti-abortion program in the form of special consultation rooms at medical centers. In 2015, over 266 women consulted specialists in this program, and almost 25 percent of them decided against having an abortion. According to Deputy Prime Minister for Social Affairs Olga Golodets, for every 1.9 million newborn babies in Russia, there are 700,000 abortions.

    https://www.rt.com/politics/364011-two-thirds-of-russians-oppose/


    700,000 abortions out of 1.9 million births is a staggering amount!
    The Russian government needs to implement more social projects to discourage average Russians from stunting the growth of their own country's population and instead be inspired to have a Big family. Of course, only regions with a stagnant/negative population growth should receive funding such programs.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:19 am

    A woman should have control of her own body.

    If she does not feel she can provide for a child no government should force her to have that child.

    Education is important but at the end of the day the decision to have or not have a child should be the right of the mother and father.

    Perhaps if there were no orphanages in Russia and no orphans then you could demand no abortions or terminations of pregnancies... but even then what right has society to tell someone what they can do with their own bodies.


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    Skandalwitwe

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Skandalwitwe on Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:16 pm

    [/quote]

    700,000 abortions out of 1.9 million births is a staggering amount!
    The Russian government needs to implement more social projects to discourage  average Russians from stunting the growth of their own country's  population and instead be inspired to have a Big family. Of course, only regions with a stagnant/negative population growth should receive funding such programs.

    [/quote]

    No it isn't...it's a small faction of those numbers during Soviet times. 50 years ago there were almost 5,5 million abortions per year in RSFSR and even in 1988 still 4,6 million. Since then the numbers fell year by year and there's no reason why this trend shouldn't continue.

    That discussion about banning abortions in Russia is almost nonsensical since this problem is diminishing further every year.

    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:53 am

    GarryB wrote:A woman should have control of her own body.
    Exact. Over HER body, not someone's else body with different DNA.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:18 am

    GarryB wrote:A woman should have control of her own body.

    I agree. But once a fetus is formed in her body, developing on a daily basis, the narrative changes. It becomes less of her own and more of itself.
    There's lots of room for debate. Fetus rights is key here, rights that so far are being suppressed for some reason.

    Concepts like "it's human only after delivery/birth" or "it's human only if it can survive outside the woman's body"are equally narrow-minded and radical to say the least.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:50 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    GarryB wrote:A woman should have control of her own body.
    Exact. Over HER body, not someone's else body with different DNA.

    Absolutley!
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:28 am

    In my opinion it is not the right of a government to have any say in such matters.

    The government banning abortions is no different from the government imposing abortion criteria where abortions should be implemented.

    It is the mother who should have the say, not some bureaucrat.

    Fetus's have no rights.

    Just like Animals have no rights.

    People have responsibilities.

    There are too many people on this planet as it is and just having more unwanted children will make things worse, not better.


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    Rmf

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Rmf on Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:10 pm

    no. fertility rates have been declining for decades. human population grows more because humans are living longer and not that much because they are multiplying.
    pressure on enviroment is increased if instead of 1 house and one- 4 member family in it, you have to build ,heat ,provide elctricity and water, to 4 houses where every member is living solo.
    feministic (todays) society never last, never win, never invent , patriarchy is only way.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:38 pm

    GarryB wrote:Fetus's have no rights.

    Same as women or children a mere few decades ago.

    GarryB wrote:People have responsibilities.

    Not according to you.

    GarryB wrote:There are too many people on this planet as it is and just having more unwanted children will make things worse, not better.

    Inspiring words lol1
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    Project Canada

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Project Canada on Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:18 pm




    Russians willing to emigrate unchanged since 2011, poll shows


    The proportion of Russians who want to leave their country for other nations has unchanged over the past five years according to a recent research, despite economic sanctions and political pressure applied from abroad.

    The state-run VTSIOM public opinion research center reports that that the poll conducted in early October this year showed that a total of 11 percent of Russians confessed a desire to emigrate. Of those, only 7 percent said they wanted to leave Russia in the nearest future, 13 percent said they would prefer to do so in three to five years’ time, 18 percent said they didn’t know when they would be able to take the step, while 51 percent said their desire was not connected with any particular plans.

    Besides, 63 percent of those who wanted to move to other countries told researchers that they were not taking any steps for making their dream a reality. Of those doing something to achieve the goal of emigrating, 16 percent said that they were learning a foreign language, 15 percent were accumulating funds and 8 percent said they were searching for a job or an education program in another country.

    Eighty-six percent of respondents said that they did not want to leave Russia and 75 percent said that in their opinion it would be best if their children spent their lives in Russia as well. At the same time, 20 percent of those polled said that they personally knew some people who had emigrated from Russia over the past five years.

    VTSIOM researchers noted in their report that the lingering economic crisis foreign sanctions and other hardships of recent years had had no effect on the Russians’ views on emigration. In 2011-2016 the share of those who want to leave their country fluctuated between 13 and 11 percent. In 1991, for example, it was at 16 percent.

    When researchers asked about the main motive behind the emigration drive, 50 percent said they were attracted by higher living standards, 7 percent sought social stability, 5 percent said they disagreed with the politics of the Russian government, 4 percent cited a better climate, 3 percent wanted more favorable conditions for starting their own business and two groups of 2 percent said they wished for a good education or wanted to reunite with foreign-based relatives.

    Some 12 percent of would-be emigrants said they wanted to live in Germany and 7 percent preferred the United States, while France, UK, Canada and Italy attracted 7, 5, 4, 3 and 3 percent respectively.

    Russia itself is one of the world’s leaders in accepting immigrants and asylum seekers. According to the Federal Migration Commission, in early 2016 about 10 million foreign citizens resided in the Russian Federation (of them, about 8.7 million were from ex-Soviet republics), with Russia’s population currently standing at over 146 million.

    https://www.rt.com/politics/364141-share-of-russians-willing-to/

    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:56 am

    Rmf wrote:no. fertility rates have been declining for decades. human population grows more because humans are living longer and not that much because they are multiplying.
    pressure on enviroment is increased if instead of 1 house and one- 4 member family in it, you have to build ,heat ,provide elctricity and water, to 4 houses where every member is living solo.
    feministic (todays) society never last, never win, never invent , patriarchy is only way.
    Completely true.
    Also, the argument of "too many people in this world" doesn't hold either, like if the planet was wholy covered by crowded cities. In fact, it is hard to find countries which are really full (Bangladesh comes to mind), even China has a lot of empty space (north and west are sparsely populated areas), while Canada, Russia, Argentina, Australia and Brazil have gigantic empty areas.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:57 am

    even China has a lot of empty space (north and west are sparsely populated areas), while Canada, Russia, Argentina, Australia and Brazil have gigantic empty areas.

    Yeah... the huge area with sparse population in China is called the Gobi desert... in northern africa it is called the Sahara, in Russia it is a frozen wasteland, as it is in Canada and a desert in Australia.

    There are no people there because living would be very harsh and difficult.

    You talk about reducing fertility... perhaps when populations actually go down you might have a case but the global populations seem to just be increasing, and problems with availability of fresh water and food are not getting better... they are getting worse.

    Perhaps if consumerism was stopped and responsibility was considered more important than rights to this or that, then we could deal with some of the problems a large population creates, but until then by all means ban abortion... they can just send the kids to your address and you can sort them out right?


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    Rmf

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Rmf on Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:45 am

    economies with old population dont grow , look at japan, too much tax burden on social securities and medicare , and you cant start any enterprise because of high tax burden.
    paradoxicaly countries with large old population have high youth unemployement - spain. old people dont eat much, dont go out, dont spend much,mostly 0 productivity...
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:34 am

    Yet the irony is that money is the best way to make money.

    Having money and investing it offers vastly better financial returns than actual labour... the problem is that the financial markets have turned on themselves and gone feral... the property market is a great way to make easy money when there is no capital gains tax... and politicians don't like actually taxing the rich... cause all their friends and financial contributors are rich...

    The largest city in NZ is called Auckland and there is a huge housing shortage... people wanting to buy homes. Except an enormous number are actually empty because you can buy a shithole of a house for $400,000 and wait two years and get double your money back when you sell... who wants to waste time with tenants that could occidentally burn the place down or otherwise be a pain in the ass.

    Half the problem is that young people see the comfort of the older people and want that for themselves... they just don't want to work for it...


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    Rmf

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Rmf on Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:01 pm

    that is fake money and a baloon , but banks love it so they can enslave more people with higher debts.... credits usually bring the prices up because it gets affordable to more people so more people compete and drive prices up.
    if speculation makes good money ofcourse nobody will work and toil so dont blame young people.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:13 am

    if speculation makes good money ofcourse nobody will work and toil so dont blame young people.

    I don't blame young people...

    The real irony is that bald old fat guy in that expensive Porche would probably swap that expensive car and the big flash house to be young again...

    By the time you get what you want sometimes you realise you missed out on some real things that are more important in your drive to get it and when you get it, you realise you can't get that time back to spend it is less financially productive and more morally productive things.

    Life is all about choices made and choices not made.


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    Project Canada

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Project Canada on Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:15 pm


    Russia must protect its population now, before it is too late


    The population of Russia may shrink considerably in the foreseeable future if the state does not take quick and drastic measures for its protection. The improvement of the demographic situation in Russia depends on the government policy, experts believe.
    Generally speaking, the demographic problem is a problem not only for Russia, but for many other European countries, even Asian ones, such as Japan, for instance. Yet, this issue has its own peculiarities in Russia - they are mostly associated with the disaster of the 1990s.

    "Since the 1990s, most Russian families have preferred to have only one child. Presently, two-thirds of Russian families have one child and only six percent have three or more children. One needs to increase this number to about 50 percent. If we still have the trend for one child in a family, the Russian population will shrink twice in 30 years," the head of the Department for Sociology of Family and Demography at the Moscow State University, Professor Anatoly Antonov said, the Rossiyskaya Gazeta wrote.


    The professor also pointed out the trend towards an increase in the number of childless families and the growing stratification between the rich and the poor.
    Chairman of the regional public organization Child's Right, Boris Altshuler, largely agrees with the above-mentioned assessment.

    The human rights activist referred to Vladimir Putin's article about social issues that was published before the presidential election in 2012. In the article, Putin spoke about demographic problems as well.

    "He wrote there in black and white that if we do not take urgent measures in this regard, then by the middle of the XXI century Russia will lose 50 million people. This is iron logic which is entirely and absolutely correct," said Boris Altshuler.

    "After the demographic collapse of the 1990s, the number of schoolchildren in Russia has reduced twice. In the mid-2000s, there were schoolchildren who were born during the Soviet era. In the RSFSR, the population was growing by 2 million people a year. During the 1990s, we had one million babies born a year. Then came Putin's reforms to stimulate the birth rate in the country, the maternity capital was introduced, and the general economic situation stabilized. In fact, the birth rate exceeded the death rate at some point, but it did not reach the Soviet level of 1.5-1.7 million. Nowadays, the girls, who were born during the 1990s, enter their childbearing age. Therefore, we are entering the period, when the number of mothers will be twice as less than it was during the 1990s," the expert told Pravda.Ru.

    Boris Altshuler also said that there are other problems, such as, for example, assistance to large families. "There are three key issues that ensure the survival and well-being of families with many children. First and foremost, it is the issue of housing. Secondly, parents need to be able to feed their children. Thirdly, it is healthcare. There are huge problems in all these three issues in Russia nationwide," the human right activist said pointing out the need for the state to pay more attention to such issues.

    According to the Head of the Sector for Demography, Migration and Ethno-Religious Problems of the Russian Institute of Strategic Research under the President of the Russian Federation, Igor Beloborodov, the problem of the dangerously low birth rate has existed in Russia for a long time.

    "During the 1960s, the birth rate dropped below the population reproduction level, but the fact had been ignored and not paid attention to for a very long time. Yet, there are always loose ends from any weave. In 1992, the open phase of depopulation started in the country. It happened without any wars, famine or repression. It happened due to the free choice and the free will of Russian people, who started refusing from having two or more children. Two children per family will not save the Russian population today. One needs three-child and larger families to improve our demography," said Igor Beloborodov in an interview with Pravda.Ru.

    "With the current birth rate level, the population is reduced by half during 70-80 years. This is a very short historic period. We understand that the age structure is not perfect in the country either. Therefore, the Russian population may shrink twice even faster," the expert added.

    According to Igor Beloborodov, one needs to meet several requirements to overcome the current trend.

    "First and foremost, one needs to revise attitude towards human life. One needs to put an end to abortions. I am not saying we should prohibit them. We need to constitutionally document the value, sanctity and protection of human life from the moment of conception. Of course, mass media should be involved in the powerful propaganda of healthy family lifestyle. A full strong large family with three children minimum should be the gold standard," said the expert.

    "Families with children should enjoy all sorts of privileges, preferences - everything, including awards and rewards. We need to change our education system to raise family-oriented individuals. Students should be taught at school how to become a good parent, how to maintain good relationships with their spouses and how to raise worthy members of our society. If we can do it in several years, the situation will start improving," said Igor Beloborodov.

    It will take many years and even decades to improve the situation, but if Russia does not start acting now, it will be too late.


    http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/24-11-2016/136257-russian_population-0/#sthash.XDSppMqa.dpuf
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:30 pm

    And yet, Russia's demographics have been increasing in the last couple of years. So I don't know what this fear stems from. Especially since Russia's population was small, even back prior to Soviet Union.

    Over populating isn't a solution to problems either.
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    Project Canada

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Project Canada on Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:55 am

    miketheterrible wrote:

    Over populating isn't a solution to problems either.


    Yeah but before worrying about over population i think Russia must first put more efforts to encourage ethnic Russian families to have at least 5 or more kids.

    USA wouldn't be in its position today as Superpower if its got a population size like Canada

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    Skandalwitwe

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Skandalwitwe on Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:56 am

    ^^^This article is so breathtaking wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start. Those incompetent scum 5th columnists posing as 'demographers' are outright liying, fabricating numbers as usual and reveal themselves as utter idiots.

    Some well-substantiated facts of the whooping demographic recovery in Russia:
    1.) Total Fertility Rate rose from a minimum in 1999 1,16 to 1,78 in 2015 0 = +53%
    2.) Crude Birth Rate (per 1.000) rose from 8,3 to 13,3 in 2012 in is on that level since then
    3.) in absolute numbers: 1215k births in 1999 to 1943k in 2014 (=+60%!)

    4.) crude death rate (per 1.000) fell from the max in 2003 (16,4) to 13,0 in 2015 and will fall further in 2016 considering the substantial decline in deaths in the first 9 months
    5.) in absolute numbers deaths fell from 2366k in 2003 to 1906k in 2015 = -20% (latter number even with Crimea/Sevastopol). Death will fall well below the 1,9 million mark this year.
    6.) Life expectancy rose from 64,8 years in 2003 within 12 short years to 71,4 in 2015. Will take another good jump at over 72 years this year. For males it's even more impressive: from 58,5 to 65,9.
    7.) Abortions cease to to be a major problem since they fell from 4,6 million in 1988 to 800k+ in 2015. They declined every single year in that time frame.

    8.) Minus 50 million people in 2050? That means minus 1,4 million pear year? Not even in the darkest times in the 90's/early 2000's.
    9.) The population of the RSFSR wasn't growing at 2 million pear neither after WW2 nor before. Maximum was 1,9 million in the mid-50's. In 1986/87 the natural population growth was almost a million again but then came the disaster we all know.

    There are many more inaccuracies in that crappy fearmongering article but i'm too lazy to address them all.


    Last edited by Skandalwitwe on Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total

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