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    Project Canada
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Project Canada on Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:13 pm

    Question, how big of a population can Russia with its current size (without former soviet states) be able to support? can Russia still have a population of around 300 mil?

    Russia now has AFAIK the highest fertility rate in all of Europe.

    Westerners downplay this by saying that only people of "Muslim" origin/affiliations are having more births in Russia, and not really ethnic Russians. what is your take on this?

    Karl Haushofer
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:20 pm

    I don't think that Russia has the highest fertility rate in Europe. France and several others have higher. Maybe Russia has the highest fertility rate in eastern Europe?

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:23 pm

    Project Canada wrote:Westerners downplay this by saying that only people of "Muslim" origin/affiliations are having more births in Russia, and not really ethnic Russians. what is your take on this?

    This:


    flamming_python
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:27 pm

    Project Canada wrote:Question, how big of a population can Russia with its current size (without former soviet states) be able to support? can Russia still have a population of around 300 mil?

    Russia now has AFAIK the highest fertility rate in all of Europe.

    Westerners downplay this by saying that only people of "Muslim" origin/affiliations are having more births in Russia, and not really ethnic Russians. what is your take on this?

    There isn't nearly the gulf between Muslim and non-Muslim fertility rates in Russia (a tenth or fifth of a point) that you see between Muslims and non-Muslims in Western Europe (several whole points).

    The second thing is that most of the rise in fertility rates in Russia over the last 10 years has been due to birth increases in ethnic Russian provinces, not so much the Muslim republics.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:30 pm

    Project Canada wrote:Question, how big of a population can Russia with its current size (without former soviet states) be able to support? can Russia still have a population of around 300 mil?

    Russia now has AFAIK the highest fertility rate in all of Europe.

    Westerners downplay this by saying that only people of "Muslim" origin/affiliations are having more births in Russia, and not really ethnic Russians. what is your take on this?

    There isn't nearly the gulf between Muslim and non-Muslim fertility rates in Russia (a tenth or fifth of a point) that you see between Muslims and non-Muslims in Western Europe (several whole points).

    The decond thing is that most of the rise in fertility rates in Russia over the last 10 years has been due to birth increases in ethnic Russian provinces, not so much the Muslim republics.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  BTRfan on Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:42 pm

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:Why do Europeans have so few kids?


    Consider the population density in most European nations, Germany for example [almost 700 people per square mile].

    It is basically criminal for Western leaders to allow massive immigration into Western nations that are already so crowded, with depressed economies, large numbers of native citizens unemployed, that native citizens are so distressed they are not even having their own kids.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:47 pm

    Project Canada wrote:Question, how big of a population can Russia with its current size (without former soviet states) be able to support? can Russia still have a population of around 300 mil?

    Russia now has AFAIK the highest fertility rate in all of Europe.

    Westerners downplay this by saying that only people of "Muslim" origin/affiliations are having more births in Russia, and not really ethnic Russians. what is your take on this?

    Dude have you even seen Russia on the map?

    With some creativity you could dump entire population of the planet in there pretty comfortably...

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  BTRfan on Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:48 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:Question, how big of a population can Russia with its current size (without former soviet states) be able to support? can Russia still have a population of around 300 mil?

    Russia now has AFAIK the highest fertility rate in all of Europe.

    Westerners downplay this by saying that only people of "Muslim" origin/affiliations are having more births in Russia, and not really ethnic Russians. what is your take on this?

    There isn't nearly the gulf between Muslim and non-Muslim fertility rates in Russia (a tenth or fifth of a point) that you see between Muslims and non-Muslims in Western Europe (several whole points).

    The decond thing is that most of the rise in fertility rates in Russia over the last 10 years has been due to birth increases in ethnic Russian provinces, not so much the Muslim republics.


    Russia is a country with a potentially great future, primarily because it has a very low population density and lots of reasonably decent land available for future settlement. Population density has a direct relationship to quality of life and standard of living.

    Consider how people are living in Bangladesh vs how they are living in Uruguay or Canada. When you have 12,000 people per square mile vs 10 people per square mile, life is going to be fairly miserable, being crammed in like sardines.


    In the near future the sparsely populated nations of the world, such as Argentina, Uruguay, Canada, Australia, Russia, etc, will very likely see calls and demands from the poorly managed overpopulated nations such as Bangladesh, China, India, etc, to open their borders and take tens of millions of their surplus citizens in as immigrants.


    Russia fought hard and sacrificed much for what it has today, the vast wilderness of fresh land in the Russian interior should be for the future generations of Russia, not for mass immigrant colonies from other nations.

    Besides, if Russia allowed itself to serve as a "relief valve" for the dumping of surplus population from a place such as Bangladesh, it would create a vicious cycle where within 10-20 years the population of Bangladesh would again be bursting and would be looking to send more immigrants.

    In the long-term the only way to address population problems is a dual approach of promoting increased infrastructure and prosperity in third world nations along with substantially reduced family size, while substantially curtailing immigration to preserve vacant land for future generations of the nation.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  BTRfan on Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:49 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:Question, how big of a population can Russia with its current size (without former soviet states) be able to support? can Russia still have a population of around 300 mil?

    Russia now has AFAIK the highest fertility rate in all of Europe.

    Westerners downplay this by saying that only people of "Muslim" origin/affiliations are having more births in Russia, and not really ethnic Russians. what is your take on this?

    Dude have you even seen Russia on the map?

    With some creativity you could dump entire population of the planet in there pretty comfortably...


    Perhaps, but what would the quality of life be if they suddenly went from 21 people per square mile [present ratio] to 1200 people per square mile [hypothetical ratio with the entire world of 7.5 billion living there]?

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:54 pm

    BTRfan wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:Why do Europeans have so few kids?


    Consider the population density in most European nations, Germany for example [almost 700 people per square mile].

    It is basically criminal for Western leaders to allow massive immigration into Western nations that are already so crowded, with depressed economies, large numbers of native citizens unemployed, that native citizens are so distressed they are not even having their own kids.

    Crowded? Not at all.

    Depressed economies? Partly because the population growth is so small or non-existent.

    Large numbers of native citizens unemployed? Depends on the country. It is not an issue in Germany (unemployment rate is below 7%).

    One of the reasons why modern Germany is so important is that the government allowed many millions to settle in West Germany in the last 70 years.



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    Re: Russian population

    Post  BTRfan on Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:58 pm

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    BTRfan wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:Why do Europeans have so few kids?


    Consider the population density in most European nations, Germany for example [almost 700 people per square mile].

    It is basically criminal for Western leaders to allow massive immigration into Western nations that are already so crowded, with depressed economies, large numbers of native citizens unemployed, that native citizens are so distressed they are not even having their own kids.

    Crowded? Not at all.

    Depressed economies? Partly because the population growth is so small or non-existent.

    Large numbers of native citizens unemployed? Depends on the country. It is not an issue in Germany (unemployment rate is below 7%).

    One of the reasons why modern Germany is so important is that the government allowed many millions to settle in West Germany in the last 70 years.





    The idea that you need continual population growth for economic growth is based on flawed 1700s-1800s thinking when work was labor intensive. Now work is capital intensive. Only in third world nations is work still labor intensive.

    Furthermore, many European nations have record unemployment and youth unemployment, especially Spain and Italy, how would immigration alleviate these problems? By adding millions of new job seekers????

    Seven percent, or even six percent, unemployment is still significant.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:17 pm

    BTRfan wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:Why do Europeans have so few kids?


    Consider the population density in most European nations, Germany for example [almost 700 people per square mile].

    It is basically criminal for Western leaders to allow massive immigration into Western nations that are already so crowded, with depressed economies, large numbers of native citizens unemployed, that native citizens are so distressed they are not even having their own kids.

    Yes, bad for Europe. Not so bad for the rest of the world.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:18 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:Question, how big of a population can Russia with its current size (without former soviet states) be able to support? can Russia still have a population of around 300 mil?

    Russia now has AFAIK the highest fertility rate in all of Europe.

    Westerners downplay this by saying that only people of "Muslim" origin/affiliations are having more births in Russia, and not really ethnic Russians. what is your take on this?

    Dude have you even seen Russia on the map?

    With some creativity you could dump entire population of the planet in there pretty comfortably...

    No. Most of Russian landmass is useless for humans to live.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:20 pm

    BTRfan wrote:The idea that you need continual population growth for economic growth is based on flawed 1700s-1800s thinking when work was labor intensive. Now work is capital intensive. Only in third world nations is work still labor intensive.

    Furthermore, many European nations have record unemployment and youth unemployment, especially Spain and Italy, how would immigration alleviate these problems? By adding millions of new job seekers????

    You still need new workers and consumers for a economic growth that is higher than the productivity growth.

    BTRfan wrote:Seven percent, or even six percent, unemployment is still significant.

    Considering that an unemployment rate below five percent is regarded as full employment, it is not.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:23 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:Question, how big of a population can Russia with its current size (without former soviet states) be able to support? can Russia still have a population of around 300 mil?

    Russia now has AFAIK the highest fertility rate in all of Europe.

    Westerners downplay this by saying that only people of "Muslim" origin/affiliations are having more births in Russia, and not really ethnic Russians. what is your take on this?

    Dude have you even seen Russia on the map?

    With some creativity you could dump entire population of the planet in there pretty comfortably...

    No. Most of Russian landmass is useless for humans to live.

    Yes, because the russian bears will eat all humans, drink vodka and play balalaika on the their bones...

    Russia is the most fertile land to use for humans, some places are harsher but still people life their for very long time in relative simple houses and under very simple circumstances while bringing money and technology to those places would make them a very good place to live with alot of resources.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:30 pm

    There are various towns/villages that are along the permafrost lines in Russia, whom still manage to grow veggies (well, potatoes really). Various edible berries full of nutrition grow on permafrost - particularly a moss that grows on permafrost. We have them in northern Canada. Close to the arctic or in the arctic. They grow for only 2 months of the year, but very good.

    As well, greenhouses are a major thing now. Only issue is that making a greenhouse in northern territories will take some considerable work in making sure the ground is solid (dig, replace dirt, sand, gravel, cement, etc) or it would sink. But once completed, and with decent energy source (there are newer solar panels and wind turbines that can work in far north climates) and you can have all year round food development. For meat eaters, ranching is another concept too. Ranching Yaks is apparently a thing in north Siberia and far east amongst certain tribals.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:22 pm

    sepheronx wrote:There are various towns/villages that are along the permafrost lines in Russia, whom still manage to grow veggies (well, potatoes really). Various edible berries full of nutrition grow on permafrost - particularly a moss that grows on permafrost. We have them in northern Canada. Close to the arctic or in the arctic. They grow for only 2 months of the year, but very good.

    As well, greenhouses are a major thing now. Only issue is that making a greenhouse in northern territories will take some considerable work in making sure the ground is solid (dig, replace dirt, sand, gravel, cement, etc) or it would sink. But once completed, and with decent energy source (there are newer solar panels and wind turbines that can work in far north climates) and you can have all year round food development. For meat eaters, ranching is another concept too. Ranching Yaks is apparently a thing in north Siberia and far east amongst certain tribals.

    Greenhouses are the past my friend, if you want to grow fresh veggies in Siberia all year round solution is above ground thumbsup

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_farming





    Doesn't even need to be new building, you can just re-purpose those Soviet era full-concrete apartment blocs. russia



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    Re: Russian population

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:49 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:There are various towns/villages that are along the permafrost lines in Russia, whom still manage to grow veggies (well, potatoes really). Various edible berries full of nutrition grow on permafrost - particularly a moss that grows on permafrost. We have them in northern Canada. Close to the arctic or in the arctic. They grow for only 2 months of the year, but very good.

    As well, greenhouses are a major thing now. Only issue is that making a greenhouse in northern territories will take some considerable work in making sure the ground is solid (dig, replace dirt, sand, gravel, cement, etc) or it would sink. But once completed, and with decent energy source (there are newer solar panels and wind turbines that can work in far north climates) and you can have all year round food development. For meat eaters, ranching is another concept too. Ranching Yaks is apparently a thing in north Siberia and far east amongst certain tribals.

    Greenhouses are the past my friend, if you want to grow fresh veggies in Siberia all year round solution is above ground thumbsup

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_farming





    Doesn't even need to be new building, you can just re-purpose those Soviet era full-concrete apartment blocs. russia  


     

    HOLY SHIT!!! You literally read my mind, I was about to post something about vertical farming last night, but got tired and fell asleep.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:25 am

    It would work for a small country, but not necessarily Russia. Russis has so much unused land, a greentower is just too expensive. Add in, there are issues regarding height and weight to buildings in Russia. Most permafrost land would effectively be marshland in he ground. Such towers would sink over time and repairs/maintenance would be overtly costly. Cool idea, but more ideal for smaller countries (wouldnt work so much in Ukraine either since it is mostly marsh land. Gobi desert it could work.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  kvs on Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:14 pm

    http://sergey-rf-965.livejournal.com/905047.html

    Translation below by Moscow Exile posting at

    https://marknesop.wordpress.com/2015/09/09/the-weaponization-of-ignorance-the-wests-go-to-experts/comment-page-10/#comment-119782

    From the scientific community there has come news about research into the Russian (and, in general, Slavic) gene pool. But first, a few words about this matter in general.

    Recent studies on the decoding of the genome of the Russian people have made an enormous contribution to the study of the ethnogenesis of the Russian nation. These major scientific discoveries refute many preconceived myths, including the most common, which read as follows: 1) scratch any Russian and you find a Tartar, and 2) the Russians are, in fact, not a people, but a hodgepodge, at best; a cultural-linguistic community, that has long ago lost any clear ethnic characteristics.

    Actually, already in 30s of the last century, anthropological research had found that of all the peoples of Europe, the Slavs (including the Russians) had been least subjected to assimilation. Of the 11 main anthropological characteristics of the Slavs, there remained unchanged 7-9, while other European Nations had only 4-5 unchanged genetic characteristics. Anthropological differences between Russians living in Kaliningrad and Kamchatka are far less than those between Germans living in neighbouring German regions.

    Research into the X – and Y-chromosomes of Russian people, in turn, has shown the absolute genetic identity of the Russian population in whole of the vast area of Russia. So the Russians consist of a classical ethnos, having its own persistent characteristics and features. Those in possession of the “Russian gene” have the so-called haplogroup R1a Y-chromosome. It is very close to that of some other Slavic peoples.



    Scientific evidence completely refutes that theory which is fashionable in some places abroad that the Russians are a young historic community that emerged in the 13th-15th centuries, they being a mix of Finns Tatars who had some Slavonic features.

    First, the emergence of “Russian” DNA-chromosome appeared at least as far back as the 6th Millennium BC (by the way, this time, saw the beginning of the formation of the Indo-European linguistic community). That’s how “young” the Russian people are.

    Secondly, comparing the y chromosomes of Russians and Tatars shows a distance of 30 conventional units, which does not signify them as being even distant kinfolk.

    And thirdly, investigation of the structure of the y-chromosome in Russian and Finnish men shows a difference in 30 arbitrary units.

    At the same time, the genetic difference between Russians inhabiting the north-east of the country and the so-called Finno-Ugric peoples of Russia (Mordovians, Mari, Komi-Zyryans, etc.) is equal to only 2-3 units. This perfectly illustrates the message told in tales of bygone years that the Slavs “had stolen” the girls of local residents. That’s where some of Russian high cheekbones and dark hair comes from, which feature is so often taken as evidence of their “Mongol” heritage.

    By the way, it has been confirmed that Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians are one ethnic group that has no major genetic differences.

    On the basis of anthropological photographs taken of Russian people that have been collected during almost 100 years of research, there has been constructed a computer made portrait of a typical Russian man, who turned out to be of medium height with light brown hair and grey or blue eyes. Moreover, it was found that a snub nose occurs in only 7% of the Russian people, whereas amongst the Germans and the Finns — every fourth person has such a nose!

    In general, snub-nosed man is not a Russian, and scientific evidence does not disagree with this.

    The Banderatards claim Russians are Tatar-Mongol admixtures and so not "pure" like they are. attack

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:27 pm

    Rather common knowledge for those with more than one braincell that all slavics are an own ethnicity and the same.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Regular on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:33 pm

    Haha I remember from folklore Russians are tall, bulky, blond and fair skinned. But Russian folklore is tied to Nordic

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:36 pm

    Regular wrote:Haha I remember from folklore Russians are tall, bulky, blond and fair skinned. But Russian folklore is tied to Nordic


    Sounds like the Hitlers definition of germans, except that most germans are brunette, brown eyed and more similiarities with russians than with nordic (scandinavians).

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Regular on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:44 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Regular wrote:Haha I remember from folklore Russians are tall, bulky, blond and fair skinned. But Russian folklore is tied to Nordic


    Sounds like the Hitlers definition of germans, except that most germans are brunette, brown eyed and more similiarities with russians than with nordic (scandinavians).
    Yup and there are plenty of so called aryan look people in Western Russia. Plenty of Belarussians are like that too. But apart from folklore there was no obsession about it. Funny thing fair hair is just genetic mutation, lack of melanin, how come someone came up that it represent superiority is beyond me.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:45 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Regular wrote:Haha I remember from folklore Russians are tall, bulky, blond and fair skinned. But Russian folklore is tied to Nordic


    Sounds like the Hitlers definition of germans, except that most germans are brunette, brown eyed and more similiarities with russians than with nordic (scandinavians).

    So tall blonde race did win WWII? lol1


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