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    ExBeobachter1987

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:54 pm

    BTRfan wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:Why do Europeans have so few kids?


    Consider the population density in most European nations, Germany for example [almost 700 people per square mile].

    It is basically criminal for Western leaders to allow massive immigration into Western nations that are already so crowded, with depressed economies, large numbers of native citizens unemployed, that native citizens are so distressed they are not even having their own kids.

    Crowded? Not at all.

    Depressed economies? Partly because the population growth is so small or non-existent.

    Large numbers of native citizens unemployed? Depends on the country. It is not an issue in Germany (unemployment rate is below 7%).

    One of the reasons why modern Germany is so important is that the government allowed many millions to settle in West Germany in the last 70 years.



    BTRfan

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  BTRfan on Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:58 pm

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    BTRfan wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:Why do Europeans have so few kids?


    Consider the population density in most European nations, Germany for example [almost 700 people per square mile].

    It is basically criminal for Western leaders to allow massive immigration into Western nations that are already so crowded, with depressed economies, large numbers of native citizens unemployed, that native citizens are so distressed they are not even having their own kids.

    Crowded? Not at all.

    Depressed economies? Partly because the population growth is so small or non-existent.

    Large numbers of native citizens unemployed? Depends on the country. It is not an issue in Germany (unemployment rate is below 7%).

    One of the reasons why modern Germany is so important is that the government allowed many millions to settle in West Germany in the last 70 years.





    The idea that you need continual population growth for economic growth is based on flawed 1700s-1800s thinking when work was labor intensive. Now work is capital intensive. Only in third world nations is work still labor intensive.

    Furthermore, many European nations have record unemployment and youth unemployment, especially Spain and Italy, how would immigration alleviate these problems? By adding millions of new job seekers????

    Seven percent, or even six percent, unemployment is still significant.

    Karl Haushofer

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:17 pm

    BTRfan wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:Why do Europeans have so few kids?


    Consider the population density in most European nations, Germany for example [almost 700 people per square mile].

    It is basically criminal for Western leaders to allow massive immigration into Western nations that are already so crowded, with depressed economies, large numbers of native citizens unemployed, that native citizens are so distressed they are not even having their own kids.

    Yes, bad for Europe. Not so bad for the rest of the world.

    Karl Haushofer

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:18 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:Question, how big of a population can Russia with its current size (without former soviet states) be able to support? can Russia still have a population of around 300 mil?

    Russia now has AFAIK the highest fertility rate in all of Europe.

    Westerners downplay this by saying that only people of "Muslim" origin/affiliations are having more births in Russia, and not really ethnic Russians. what is your take on this?

    Dude have you even seen Russia on the map?

    With some creativity you could dump entire population of the planet in there pretty comfortably...

    No. Most of Russian landmass is useless for humans to live.
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    ExBeobachter1987

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:20 pm

    BTRfan wrote:The idea that you need continual population growth for economic growth is based on flawed 1700s-1800s thinking when work was labor intensive. Now work is capital intensive. Only in third world nations is work still labor intensive.

    Furthermore, many European nations have record unemployment and youth unemployment, especially Spain and Italy, how would immigration alleviate these problems? By adding millions of new job seekers????

    You still need new workers and consumers for a economic growth that is higher than the productivity growth.

    BTRfan wrote:Seven percent, or even six percent, unemployment is still significant.

    Considering that an unemployment rate below five percent is regarded as full employment, it is not.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:23 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:Question, how big of a population can Russia with its current size (without former soviet states) be able to support? can Russia still have a population of around 300 mil?

    Russia now has AFAIK the highest fertility rate in all of Europe.

    Westerners downplay this by saying that only people of "Muslim" origin/affiliations are having more births in Russia, and not really ethnic Russians. what is your take on this?

    Dude have you even seen Russia on the map?

    With some creativity you could dump entire population of the planet in there pretty comfortably...

    No. Most of Russian landmass is useless for humans to live.

    Yes, because the russian bears will eat all humans, drink vodka and play balalaika on the their bones...

    Russia is the most fertile land to use for humans, some places are harsher but still people life their for very long time in relative simple houses and under very simple circumstances while bringing money and technology to those places would make them a very good place to live with alot of resources.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:30 pm

    There are various towns/villages that are along the permafrost lines in Russia, whom still manage to grow veggies (well, potatoes really). Various edible berries full of nutrition grow on permafrost - particularly a moss that grows on permafrost. We have them in northern Canada. Close to the arctic or in the arctic. They grow for only 2 months of the year, but very good.

    As well, greenhouses are a major thing now. Only issue is that making a greenhouse in northern territories will take some considerable work in making sure the ground is solid (dig, replace dirt, sand, gravel, cement, etc) or it would sink. But once completed, and with decent energy source (there are newer solar panels and wind turbines that can work in far north climates) and you can have all year round food development. For meat eaters, ranching is another concept too. Ranching Yaks is apparently a thing in north Siberia and far east amongst certain tribals.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:22 pm

    sepheronx wrote:There are various towns/villages that are along the permafrost lines in Russia, whom still manage to grow veggies (well, potatoes really). Various edible berries full of nutrition grow on permafrost - particularly a moss that grows on permafrost. We have them in northern Canada. Close to the arctic or in the arctic. They grow for only 2 months of the year, but very good.

    As well, greenhouses are a major thing now. Only issue is that making a greenhouse in northern territories will take some considerable work in making sure the ground is solid (dig, replace dirt, sand, gravel, cement, etc) or it would sink. But once completed, and with decent energy source (there are newer solar panels and wind turbines that can work in far north climates) and you can have all year round food development. For meat eaters, ranching is another concept too. Ranching Yaks is apparently a thing in north Siberia and far east amongst certain tribals.

    Greenhouses are the past my friend, if you want to grow fresh veggies in Siberia all year round solution is above ground thumbsup

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_farming





    Doesn't even need to be new building, you can just re-purpose those Soviet era full-concrete apartment blocs. russia


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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:49 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:There are various towns/villages that are along the permafrost lines in Russia, whom still manage to grow veggies (well, potatoes really). Various edible berries full of nutrition grow on permafrost - particularly a moss that grows on permafrost. We have them in northern Canada. Close to the arctic or in the arctic. They grow for only 2 months of the year, but very good.

    As well, greenhouses are a major thing now. Only issue is that making a greenhouse in northern territories will take some considerable work in making sure the ground is solid (dig, replace dirt, sand, gravel, cement, etc) or it would sink. But once completed, and with decent energy source (there are newer solar panels and wind turbines that can work in far north climates) and you can have all year round food development. For meat eaters, ranching is another concept too. Ranching Yaks is apparently a thing in north Siberia and far east amongst certain tribals.

    Greenhouses are the past my friend, if you want to grow fresh veggies in Siberia all year round solution is above ground thumbsup

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_farming





    Doesn't even need to be new building, you can just re-purpose those Soviet era full-concrete apartment blocs. russia  


     

    HOLY SHIT!!! You literally read my mind, I was about to post something about vertical farming last night, but got tired and fell asleep.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  kvs on Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:14 pm

    http://sergey-rf-965.livejournal.com/905047.html

    Translation below by Moscow Exile posting at

    https://marknesop.wordpress.com/2015/09/09/the-weaponization-of-ignorance-the-wests-go-to-experts/comment-page-10/#comment-119782

    From the scientific community there has come news about research into the Russian (and, in general, Slavic) gene pool. But first, a few words about this matter in general.

    Recent studies on the decoding of the genome of the Russian people have made an enormous contribution to the study of the ethnogenesis of the Russian nation. These major scientific discoveries refute many preconceived myths, including the most common, which read as follows: 1) scratch any Russian and you find a Tartar, and 2) the Russians are, in fact, not a people, but a hodgepodge, at best; a cultural-linguistic community, that has long ago lost any clear ethnic characteristics.

    Actually, already in 30s of the last century, anthropological research had found that of all the peoples of Europe, the Slavs (including the Russians) had been least subjected to assimilation. Of the 11 main anthropological characteristics of the Slavs, there remained unchanged 7-9, while other European Nations had only 4-5 unchanged genetic characteristics. Anthropological differences between Russians living in Kaliningrad and Kamchatka are far less than those between Germans living in neighbouring German regions.

    Research into the X – and Y-chromosomes of Russian people, in turn, has shown the absolute genetic identity of the Russian population in whole of the vast area of Russia. So the Russians consist of a classical ethnos, having its own persistent characteristics and features. Those in possession of the “Russian gene” have the so-called haplogroup R1a Y-chromosome. It is very close to that of some other Slavic peoples.



    Scientific evidence completely refutes that theory which is fashionable in some places abroad that the Russians are a young historic community that emerged in the 13th-15th centuries, they being a mix of Finns Tatars who had some Slavonic features.

    First, the emergence of “Russian” DNA-chromosome appeared at least as far back as the 6th Millennium BC (by the way, this time, saw the beginning of the formation of the Indo-European linguistic community). That’s how “young” the Russian people are.

    Secondly, comparing the y chromosomes of Russians and Tatars shows a distance of 30 conventional units, which does not signify them as being even distant kinfolk.

    And thirdly, investigation of the structure of the y-chromosome in Russian and Finnish men shows a difference in 30 arbitrary units.

    At the same time, the genetic difference between Russians inhabiting the north-east of the country and the so-called Finno-Ugric peoples of Russia (Mordovians, Mari, Komi-Zyryans, etc.) is equal to only 2-3 units. This perfectly illustrates the message told in tales of bygone years that the Slavs “had stolen” the girls of local residents. That’s where some of Russian high cheekbones and dark hair comes from, which feature is so often taken as evidence of their “Mongol” heritage.

    By the way, it has been confirmed that Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians are one ethnic group that has no major genetic differences.

    On the basis of anthropological photographs taken of Russian people that have been collected during almost 100 years of research, there has been constructed a computer made portrait of a typical Russian man, who turned out to be of medium height with light brown hair and grey or blue eyes. Moreover, it was found that a snub nose occurs in only 7% of the Russian people, whereas amongst the Germans and the Finns — every fourth person has such a nose!

    In general, snub-nosed man is not a Russian, and scientific evidence does not disagree with this.

    The Banderatards claim Russians are Tatar-Mongol admixtures and so not "pure" like they are. attack
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:27 pm

    Rather common knowledge for those with more than one braincell that all slavics are an own ethnicity and the same.
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    Regular

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Regular on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:33 pm

    Haha I remember from folklore Russians are tall, bulky, blond and fair skinned. But Russian folklore is tied to Nordic
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:36 pm

    Regular wrote:Haha I remember from folklore Russians are tall, bulky, blond and fair skinned. But Russian folklore is tied to Nordic


    Sounds like the Hitlers definition of germans, except that most germans are brunette, brown eyed and more similiarities with russians than with nordic (scandinavians).
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    Regular

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Regular on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:44 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Regular wrote:Haha I remember from folklore Russians are tall, bulky, blond and fair skinned. But Russian folklore is tied to Nordic


    Sounds like the Hitlers definition of germans, except that most germans are brunette, brown eyed and more similiarities with russians than with nordic (scandinavians).
    Yup and there are plenty of so called aryan look people in Western Russia. Plenty of Belarussians are like that too. But apart from folklore there was no obsession about it. Funny thing fair hair is just genetic mutation, lack of melanin, how come someone came up that it represent superiority is beyond me.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:45 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Regular wrote:Haha I remember from folklore Russians are tall, bulky, blond and fair skinned. But Russian folklore is tied to Nordic


    Sounds like the Hitlers definition of germans, except that most germans are brunette, brown eyed and more similiarities with russians than with nordic (scandinavians).

    So tall blonde race did win WWII? lol1

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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:53 pm

    Regular wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Regular wrote:Haha I remember from folklore Russians are tall, bulky, blond and fair skinned. But Russian folklore is tied to Nordic


    Sounds like the Hitlers definition of germans, except that most germans are brunette, brown eyed and more similiarities with russians than with nordic (scandinavians).
    Yup and there are plenty of so called aryan look people in Western Russia. Plenty of Belarussians are like that too. But apart from folklore there was no obsession about it. Funny thing fair hair is just genetic mutation, lack of melanin, how come someone came up that it represent  superiority is beyond me.

    Hail Ginger?

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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:14 am

    Regular wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Regular wrote:Haha I remember from folklore Russians are tall, bulky, blond and fair skinned. But Russian folklore is tied to Nordic


    Sounds like the Hitlers definition of germans, except that most germans are brunette, brown eyed and more similiarities with russians than with nordic (scandinavians).
    Yup and there are plenty of so called aryan look people in Western Russia. Plenty of Belarussians are like that too. But apart from folklore there was no obsession about it. Funny thing fair hair is just genetic mutation, lack of melanin, how come someone came up that it represent  superiority is beyond me.

    Melanin is just a successful evolutionary survival trait that a wide variety of biological life on Earth have adopted genetically as a way to adapt to solar radiation. Humans have melanin, polar bears have melanin in their skin, even fungi have melanin. For example, in the Chernobyl reactor, there are dark colored mushrooms dense with melanin that survive in the defunct reactor itself. Melanin within the mushrooms greatly helps (alongside their simple biology) survive the adverse affects of gamma radiation.
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    higurashihougi

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  higurashihougi on Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:36 am

    For reference  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil
    kvs wrote:
    Research into the X – and Y-chromosomes of Russian people, in turn, has shown the absolute genetic identity of the Russian population in whole of the vast area of Russia. So the Russians consist of a classical ethnos, having its own persistent characteristics and features. Those in possession of the “Russian gene” have the so-called haplogroup R1a Y-chromosome. It is very close to that of some other Slavic peoples.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253976/

    (...) The first broad studies of the variation of the patrilineal genetic system in Europe immediately revealed its marked phylogeographic differentiation. These two pioneering papers and subsequent studies have shown that western Europeans carry predominantly haplogroup R1b, whereas eastern Europeans have high frequency of R1a lineages, that southern Slavs are characterized by high frequency of I1b, whereas Scandinavia is enriched with I1a, and that haplogroups J2 and E3b are confined mainly to southern Europe. (...) Every second Russian Y chromosome belongs to haplogroup R1a. Figure 3A shows distribution of this haplogroup in the studied historic Russian area (indicated by the gray line) within a general European context. With the exclusion of Central and South Asian populations, the map demonstrates that within the boundaries of Europe, R1a is characteristic for Balto-Slavonic populations, with two exceptions: southern Slavs and northern Russians (Figure 3A). R1a frequency decreases in northeastern Russian populations down to 20%–30%, in contrast to central-southern Russia, where its frequency is twice as high (Table 2). To investigate statistical significance of this cline, we performed the spatial-autocorrelation analysis (correlogram on the Figure 3A). With increasing distance class, autocorrelation value changes from significantly positive to significantly negative values, confirming that variation of R1a within historical Russian area is generally clinal, but the value becomes nonsignificant and close to zero in the longest-distance class (a “depression”), indicating that influence of this cline is restricted to a part of the studied area. The map on Figure 3A shows that the northward decreasing cline is interrupted in the two, northernmost and southernmost, populations (both are recognized as specific subethnic groups of Russians, namely Cossacs and Pomors); when these two marginal populations were omitted the correlogram reveals the cline in the remaining core area (data not shown). Typically for East European populations, the frequency of its sister group R1b in Russians is much lower (Table 2). Despite the clear west-to-east clinal trend in the whole Europe (4 and 5 and Figure 3B), inside the historical Russian area, its distribution is somewhat mosaic (map on the Figure 3B). Spatial-autocorrelation analysis (Figure 3B) confirmed the absence of clinal variation of R1b within the historical Russian area. (...)




    kvs wrote:
    By the way, it has been confirmed that Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians are one ethnic group that has no major genetic differences.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3681942/

    (...)Our results reveal that around 80% of the paternal Belarusian gene pool is composed of R1a, I2a and N1c Y-chromosome haplogroups – a profile which is very similar to the two other eastern European populations – Ukrainians and Russians.(...)

    Cucumber Khan

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Cucumber Khan on Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:24 am

    higurashihougi wrote:For reference  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil
    kvs wrote:
    Research into the X – and Y-chromosomes of Russian people, in turn, has shown the absolute genetic identity of the Russian population in whole of the vast area of Russia. So the Russians consist of a classical ethnos, having its own persistent characteristics and features. Those in possession of the “Russian gene” have the so-called haplogroup R1a Y-chromosome. It is very close to that of some other Slavic peoples.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253976/

    (...) The first broad studies of the variation of the patrilineal genetic system in Europe immediately revealed its marked phylogeographic differentiation. These two pioneering papers and subsequent studies have shown that western Europeans carry predominantly haplogroup R1b, whereas eastern Europeans have high frequency of R1a lineages, that southern Slavs are characterized by high frequency of I1b, whereas Scandinavia is enriched with I1a, and that haplogroups J2 and E3b are confined mainly to southern Europe. (...) Every second Russian Y chromosome belongs to haplogroup R1a. Figure 3A shows distribution of this haplogroup in the studied historic Russian area (indicated by the gray line) within a general European context. With the exclusion of Central and South Asian populations, the map demonstrates that within the boundaries of Europe, R1a is characteristic for Balto-Slavonic populations, with two exceptions: southern Slavs and northern Russians (Figure 3A). R1a frequency decreases in northeastern Russian populations down to 20%–30%, in contrast to central-southern Russia, where its frequency is twice as high (Table 2). To investigate statistical significance of this cline, we performed the spatial-autocorrelation analysis (correlogram on the Figure 3A). With increasing distance class, autocorrelation value changes from significantly positive to significantly negative values, confirming that variation of R1a within historical Russian area is generally clinal, but the value becomes nonsignificant and close to zero in the longest-distance class (a “depression”), indicating that influence of this cline is restricted to a part of the studied area. The map on Figure 3A shows that the northward decreasing cline is interrupted in the two, northernmost and southernmost, populations (both are recognized as specific subethnic groups of Russians, namely Cossacs and Pomors); when these two marginal populations were omitted the correlogram reveals the cline in the remaining core area (data not shown). Typically for East European populations, the frequency of its sister group R1b in Russians is much lower (Table 2). Despite the clear west-to-east clinal trend in the whole Europe (4 and 5 and Figure 3B), inside the historical Russian area, its distribution is somewhat mosaic (map on the Figure 3B). Spatial-autocorrelation analysis (Figure 3B) confirmed the absence of clinal variation of R1b within the historical Russian area. (...)




    kvs wrote:
    By the way, it has been confirmed that Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians are one ethnic group that has no major genetic differences.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3681942/

    (...)Our results reveal that around 80% of the paternal Belarusian gene pool is composed of R1a, I2a and N1c Y-chromosome haplogroups – a profile which is very similar to the two other eastern European populations – Ukrainians and Russians.(...)

    Just like to point out that "ethnic groups" have absolutley nothing to do with genetics. Ethnicity is a cultural trait. If you think you are a member of an ethnic group, and others agree, then that is what you are.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:06 pm

    Cucumber Khan wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:For reference  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil
    kvs wrote:
    Research into the X – and Y-chromosomes of Russian people, in turn, has shown the absolute genetic identity of the Russian population in whole of the vast area of Russia. So the Russians consist of a classical ethnos, having its own persistent characteristics and features. Those in possession of the “Russian gene” have the so-called haplogroup R1a Y-chromosome. It is very close to that of some other Slavic peoples.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253976/

    (...) The first broad studies of the variation of the patrilineal genetic system in Europe immediately revealed its marked phylogeographic differentiation. These two pioneering papers and subsequent studies have shown that western Europeans carry predominantly haplogroup R1b, whereas eastern Europeans have high frequency of R1a lineages, that southern Slavs are characterized by high frequency of I1b, whereas Scandinavia is enriched with I1a, and that haplogroups J2 and E3b are confined mainly to southern Europe. (...) Every second Russian Y chromosome belongs to haplogroup R1a. Figure 3A shows distribution of this haplogroup in the studied historic Russian area (indicated by the gray line) within a general European context. With the exclusion of Central and South Asian populations, the map demonstrates that within the boundaries of Europe, R1a is characteristic for Balto-Slavonic populations, with two exceptions: southern Slavs and northern Russians (Figure 3A). R1a frequency decreases in northeastern Russian populations down to 20%–30%, in contrast to central-southern Russia, where its frequency is twice as high (Table 2). To investigate statistical significance of this cline, we performed the spatial-autocorrelation analysis (correlogram on the Figure 3A). With increasing distance class, autocorrelation value changes from significantly positive to significantly negative values, confirming that variation of R1a within historical Russian area is generally clinal, but the value becomes nonsignificant and close to zero in the longest-distance class (a “depression”), indicating that influence of this cline is restricted to a part of the studied area. The map on Figure 3A shows that the northward decreasing cline is interrupted in the two, northernmost and southernmost, populations (both are recognized as specific subethnic groups of Russians, namely Cossacs and Pomors); when these two marginal populations were omitted the correlogram reveals the cline in the remaining core area (data not shown). Typically for East European populations, the frequency of its sister group R1b in Russians is much lower (Table 2). Despite the clear west-to-east clinal trend in the whole Europe (4 and 5 and Figure 3B), inside the historical Russian area, its distribution is somewhat mosaic (map on the Figure 3B). Spatial-autocorrelation analysis (Figure 3B) confirmed the absence of clinal variation of R1b within the historical Russian area. (...)




    kvs wrote:
    By the way, it has been confirmed that Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians are one ethnic group that has no major genetic differences.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3681942/

    (...)Our results reveal that around 80% of the paternal Belarusian gene pool is composed of R1a, I2a and N1c Y-chromosome haplogroups – a profile which is very similar to the two other eastern European populations – Ukrainians and Russians.(...)

    Just like to point out that "ethnic groups" have absolutley nothing to do with genetics. Ethnicity is a cultural trait. If you think you are a member of an ethnic group, and others agree, then that is what you are.

    Facepalm....

    When two chinese parents have a baby in Southafrica does their child become a negro?

    Ethnic groups have everything todo with genetics.

    If a human child is raised by wolfs, it behaves like a wolf, does not look like a wolf but is a "family" member of the wolfs pack it is a wolf and genetics do not matter?
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    higurashihougi

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  higurashihougi on Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:15 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Facepalm....

    When two chinese parents have a baby in Southafrica does their child become a negro?

    Ethnic groups have everything todo with genetics.

    If a human child is raised by wolfs, it behaves like a wolf, does not look like a wolf but is a "family" member of the wolfs pack it is a wolf and genetics do not matter?

    A better answer should be "ethnic groups" is decided by a number of factor, not purely one factor. Genetics, culture, linguistic, history... All are important.

    Well for example if a Vietnamese was raised in Germany from the beginning and 99% absorb German culture, then it is not like I can force him to be a Vietnamese. We have one example, a certain local minister of Germany is Vietnamese born, but his culture, language, lifestyle,... is 99% German.

    But considering both genetics and culture, we can surely certain that Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian should be put into one union...
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:28 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:Facepalm....

    When two chinese parents have a baby in Southafrica does their child become a negro?

    Ethnic groups have everything todo with genetics.

    If a human child is raised by wolfs, it behaves like a wolf, does not look like a wolf but is a "family" member of the wolfs pack it is a wolf and genetics do not matter?

    A better answer should be "ethnic groups" is decided by a number of factor, not purely one factor. Genetics, culture, linguistic, history... All are important.

    Well for example if a Vietnamese was raised in Germany from the beginning and 99% absorb German culture, then it is not like I can force him to be a Vietnamese. We have one example, a certain local minister of Germany is Vietnamese born, but his culture, language, lifestyle,... is 99% German.

    But considering both genetics and culture, we can surely certain that Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian should be put into one union...

    Personal feelings or how they see themselfs as someone they are not has nothing to do with their genetics, that will not change their genetics, that will not make them suddenly german.

    Emil Cioran: ‘It is no nation, we inhabit, but a language. Makes no mistake: our native tongue is our true fatherland’

    In mindset you are right, it is what you feel your home, but we are speaking here about ethnic groups which are based on their genetics before everything else. Otherwise ukrops would be non russian, but they are 100%.

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    kvs

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  kvs on Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:47 pm

    Banderites are not an ethnic group either. Yet they are trying to foist a group identity on Ukraine. Opinion polls
    and ballot results showed that 50% of Ukrainians systematically did not want to join NATO and were not Bandera lovers.
    Yet Bandera lovers are now deciding what is best for them.

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    Cowboy's daughter

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:05 pm

    I hate to go back 47 pages, but one thing I'm curious about is Indigenous ppl in Russia.
    Especially since dissolution of USSR

    I guess I make this post because to me the USA probably always has been, but feels more so fracturing based on ethnicity, and I guess depends on how a person sees it : that 1. people are blowing back based on how they've been treated/discriminated against, or 2. persons in power are pitting some ethnicity against other, or 3. both, and I PERCEIVE, whether fact or not, that in Russia, discrimination of one ethnicity against other is not tolerated.
    & I'm wondering what the facts are in real life, in Russia?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_indigenous_peoples_of_Russia
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  kvs on Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:12 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:I hate to go back 47 pages, but one thing I'm curious about is Indigenous ppl in Russia.
    Especially since dissolution of USSR

    I guess I make this post because to me the USA probably always has been, but feels more so fracturing based on ethnicity, and I guess depends on how a person sees it : that 1. people are blowing back based on how they've been treated/discriminated against, or 2. persons in power are pitting some ethnicity against  other, or 3. both, and I PERCEIVE, whether fact or not, that in Russia, discrimination of one ethnicity against other is not tolerated.
    & I'm wondering what the facts are in real life, in Russia?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_indigenous_peoples_of_Russia

    There is no comparison of the US (and Canada) in its treatment of indigenous peoples and that of both the Russian Empire and the USSR.
    There was never any ethnic cleansing into reservation ghettos in Russia. In Ontario and elsewhere the original aboriginal lands have been
    expropriated and tiny parcels left over as reservations. Life on reservations in Canada is in actuality very similar to the 3rd world. This is
    not hyperbole, this is fact. They are dirt poor, live in shacks (even though millions of dollars are spent supposedly to give them better housing)
    and are ruled over by corrupt chief-based administrations. They are truly ghettoized. In some sense it would have been better if there
    were no reservations and the aboriginal got assimilated, then they may have avoided living in the reservation limbo trapped between a
    defunct traditional lifestyle and a modern one.

    In Russia aboriginals live on their ancestral lands and there was never any policy of forced assimilation or ethnic cleansing to open up
    lebensraum for white Russians. The USSR took this to a new level of creating ethnic republics. These are like the US states and not some
    token reservation-like "bantustans". Aboriginals in Russia are not trapped in any limbo and have economically and temporally, but not
    culturally and linguistically, assimilated with the rest of the country. However, there is a universality of problems that applies to Russia
    and the USA. Nomadic and semi-nomadic cultures experience a lot of stress due to development. So things were not always rosy in
    Russia. But it helped that Russia has historical multi-ethnic cultural identity. There is not one ethnic Russia, there are dozens of them
    and they are all one. When Canadians and Americans were sneering at aboriginals for being "savages", Russia viewed them as part of
    itself and its identity. Of course, the whole "savages" tag was a justification for ethnic cleansing and land expropriation. In Spanish
    America, the aboriginals were designated by the Church to not have a soul and could be abused at will. Although the English North
    America treatment of aboriginals was atrocious, the Spanish America treatment of aboriginals was even worse. In Brazil (and Cuba
    and elsewhere) natives were made into slaves. In Argentina there was genocide (physical extermination not just ethnic cleansing)
    of whole native peoples, e.g. the Patagonians. In parts of Latin America the situation is more complex and there was a sort of blending
    of newcomers and the indigenous people such as in Mexico.

    (BTW, I have nothing against Latin America, I view it much more favourably than English America today).

    During the Cold War, the US established political sabotage operations that were predicated on Russia's distinctive multi-ethnic character.
    There was the US committee of so-called trapped nations that was created to agitate various ethnic groups in the USSR to help bring it
    down. It is almost impossible to agitate minorities in the US or Canada since they are marginal and have no regional coherence. In the
    USSR, you had ethnic republics which could be agitated to secede. In the case of Chechnya it was easy to pray of resentment due
    to their mass deportation during WWII by Stalin and subsequent large loss of life. In Ukraine, you had the Banderites. And so on.
    The larger ethnic republics were easier to target. But the went after all the small ones as well. This agitation has actually continued
    into the present day as Russia is prone to secessionist agitation. You will note how Turkey ethnically cleansed millions of Kurds from
    their ancestral lands into the large cities where they became a displaced minority, during the 1980s and bulldozed their villages. Robbing
    them of their land deprives them of regional power and the chance to secede. The closest such policy analogue in the USSR was Chechnya
    but it did not last and Chechens returned to their towns and villages (which were not eradicated as in Turkey).


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    Re: Russian population

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