Questions Thread: Russian Navy

They already said something about more Ivan Gren. I don't remember the numbers but they plan a lot of them.

Isos wrote:They already said something about more Ivan Gren. I don't remember the numbers but they plan a lot of them.

The modified Ivan gren Class has at least twice the displacement of Ropucha class (project 775).

I like a lot the proposed design of the modified Ivan Gren, similar to the Italian San Giorgio class, however it is already in a different niche than the Ropucha class.

I believe there is now a niche open for a smaller amphibious ship, maybe with full load displacement between 2000 and 4000 tons.

By the way, I saw a proposal of a russian ship for export with a displacement around 2000 tons, but it had quite a bit of imported component.

I was just wondering if Russia had something similar to the US USS Mount Whitney (LCC-20) Amphibious command ship.

Could the Admiral Kuznetsov fill the same role(when upgraded) or can the Pyotr Velikiy or Admiral Nakhimov(when re-fitted and put into service) fill the role.

par far wrote:I was just wondering if Russia had something similar to the US USS Mount Whitney (LCC-20) Amphibious command ship.

Could the Admiral Kuznetsov fill the same role(when upgraded) or can the  Pyotr Velikiy or Admiral Nakhimov(when re-fitted and put into service) fill the role.

They both can act as navy command ship but Russia doesn't such a useless ship as the Mount Whitney. It's an undefended floting target.

That's a 180m lon landing ship transformed into an office for corrupt US admirals.

The nearest equivalent in the Soviet/Russian Navy would have been the SSV-33 Ural command ship based on a Kirov battlecruiser hull

However she was laid up and scrapped eventually

I don't know if the Russian Navy will return to the concept. I guess not as the experience with the Ural was not great, although it did succeed in controlling and monitoring a good deal of the North Pacific regardless.

These days with the miniaturization of electronics and multitasking ship classes I guess it makes more sense to just rely on the flagman ship classes for such functionality. They already have very powerful electronic equipment, sensors and antennas. So the prospective Lider-class destroyers in other words and possibly the Super Gorshkovs. For now I think the Kirov class battlecruisers and Slavas can take on these roles to an extent.

The size and power of electronics back then made a mainframe ship useful to collect and distribute information, but these days most of their ships and even armoured vehicles are fitted with battle computers that show the situation in their area which they can contribute with their sensors and equipment...

Having a separate ship to process all that info is probably redundant and would be incorporated into most large ships.

If you have a group of corvettes one would be in charge of the group, but if there was a frigate there then the larger ship would likely take charge etc etc with destroyer, cruiser, helicopter carrier, and CVN...

Atmosphere wrote:For people with navy knowledge, could someone tell me what exactly is the russian navy strong at?
I know that the displacement is behind the US and chine, but what does the russian navy excel at? Standoff attacks?

Protecting borders... since 1991 that's their only mission. Nothing much really.

Their Navy never had priority in front of air force or ground forces. No huge ammount of money spend for buying new ships neither maintaining their ships.

Now they are making their navy kalibr launcher navy. They put that missile (and now Tzirkon) on every new ship, even the ones that are for support missions with containered kalibrs. It clearly attracted the militaty leader attention and are investing more into it because it was worth it.

But now that the treaties on banning long range missiles launched from the ground are gone they can launch those missiles from a stupid 100k $ truck and not spend 50 millions for a missile boat that launch the same amount of missiles... so I guess they will buy more iskanders and less ships.

Atmosphere wrote:For people with navy knowledge, could someone tell me what exactly is the russian navy strong at?
I know that the displacement is behind the US and chine, but what does the russian navy excel at? Standoff attacks?

Submarines

Hey all

Just wondering if Russia are designing and making any torpedoes similar to the type 65 for new vessels?

And what can anyone tell me about the future torps?

Cheers all

Navy fanboy wrote:Hey all

Just wondering if Russia are designing and making any torpedoes similar to the type 65 for new vessels?

And what can anyone tell me about the future torps?

Cheers all

UET-1 Ichthyosaurus тorpedo

Maximum range: 50km (export variant 25 km)
Maximum depth; 1000 meters
Max speed: 50 knots
Range of the homing controller from submarine: 3.4km
Surface ship wake indication time: 500 seconds.
Torpedo can regulate its speed.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjnroOumYH2AhWI_6QKHS6hAeAQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gazeta.ru%2Farmy%2F2022%2F02%2F04%2F14497897.shtml&usg=AOvVaw06mOXqfatkJAtzCM2VJnUC

Thank you very much.

It is not easy to find all info about state of the art torpedoes being used by Russian navy, but here is what I got.
Russian navy currently uses two types of state of the art torpedoes, thermal and electric torpedoes.

Thermal torpedoes (which use fuel as a propellant)  

1. UGST (Fizik) in service since 2002

Caliber, mm: 533.4
Length, mm: 7200
Weight, kg: 2200
Warhead weight, kg: 300
Speed, knots: 50
Range, km: 50
Depth, m: up to 500
Firing depth from submarines, m: up to 400

2. Fizik2 or Futlyar was accepted to service in 2017
Engine: gas-turbine with pump-jet
Operational range 60 km
Maximum depth 500 meters
Maximum speed 60 kn
Guidance system: Wire, active and passive acoustic/wake homing

Electric torpedoes 

UET-1 Ichthyosaurus in service since 2018
Maximum range: 25km
Max speed: 50 knots

contract for 73 UET-1 torpedoes was signed in 2018 to be delivered by 2023.
In February 2022 there were reports about plans to boost their production and equip all submarines with them after they equip Project 636.3 submarines first.

How much should Russia be concerned about France's new Suffren class submarines? These new submarines don't have any traditional periscope as well as jet/pump propulsion.  Does the Russian Defense Department know anything about this and do they have any countermeasures?





https://www.popsci.com/new-french-submarine-suffren-no-periscope/




https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/02/frances-new-submarine-will-be-even-quieter-than-the-ocean/

There will not be enough of them to be relevant. Sorry but that is how it is.
These guys will be mostly patrolling their own waters anyway.

Might be a new technological step forward, or might just be a silly fringe trend, they will likely have a look and try to work out its advantages and potential issues and if they think it has potential they might try something themseles.

They have pumpjet powered subs, and their current designs are very sophisticated and capable... I am not sure they should be overly frightened that France has a new sub design.

I know that Kilo class submarines were exported to other countries like Algeria, India and China.  However, why didn't the Soviet Union or Russia in the 90s export the Tango class submarines to other countries? They could have been retrofitted using AIP and modernized and exported to countries like Venezuela, Peru, Iran and a few others?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tango-class_submarine

andalusia wrote:I know that Kilo class submarines were exported to other countries like Algeria, India and China.  However, why didn't the Soviet Union or Russia in the 90s export the Tango class submarines to other countries? They could have been retrofitted using AIP and modernized and exported to countries like Venezuela, Peru, Iran and a few others?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tango-class_submarine

Because France, Germany and other were offering modern submarines for export. You can't compete with an old design and countries can't compete with  tango submarine against their enemies which are buying those modern submarine from western countries.

The Tango class was a rather good class of submarine, I doubt they wanted to sell them off when they were using them for themselves.

Isos wrote:

andalusia wrote:I know that Kilo class submarines were exported to other countries like Algeria, India and China.  However, why didn't the Soviet Union or Russia in the 90s export the Tango class submarines to other countries? They could have been retrofitted using AIP and modernized and exported to countries like Venezuela, Peru, Iran and a few others?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tango-class_submarine

Because France, Germany and other were offering modern submarines for export. You can't compete with an old design and countries can't compete with  tango submarine against their enemies which are buying those modern submarine from western countries.

Good point. I was just thinking that the Tango class was still a fairly new sub when it was retired in the 90s and could have been exported with modern tech.



https://www.navygeneralboard.com/the-tango-class-russias-rubber-submarine/

andalusia wrote:

Isos wrote:

andalusia wrote:I know that Kilo class submarines were exported to other countries like Algeria, India and China.  However, why didn't the Soviet Union or Russia in the 90s export the Tango class submarines to other countries? They could have been retrofitted using AIP and modernized and exported to countries like Venezuela, Peru, Iran and a few others?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tango-class_submarine

Because France, Germany and other were offering modern submarines for export. You can't compete with an old design and countries can't compete with  tango submarine against their enemies which are buying those modern submarine from western countries.

Good point. I was just thinking that the Tango class was still a fairly new sub when it was retired in the 90s and could have been exported with modern tech.



https://www.navygeneralboard.com/the-tango-class-russias-rubber-submarine/

are you kidding? Tango class a fairly new sub ???

George1 wrote:

andalusia wrote:

Isos wrote:

andalusia wrote:I know that Kilo class submarines were exported to other countries like Algeria, India and China.  However, why didn't the Soviet Union or Russia in the 90s export the Tango class submarines to other countries? They could have been retrofitted using AIP and modernized and exported to countries like Venezuela, Peru, Iran and a few others?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tango-class_submarine

Because France, Germany and other were offering modern submarines for export. You can't compete with an old design and countries can't compete with  tango submarine against their enemies which are buying those modern submarine from western countries.

Good point. I was just thinking that the Tango class was still a fairly new sub when it was retired in the 90s and could have been exported with modern tech.



https://www.navygeneralboard.com/the-tango-class-russias-rubber-submarine/

are you kidding?  Tango class a fairly new sub ???

I read that they were built between 1972 to 1983 and Russia began retiring them in the mid 90s.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/641b.htm



I don't know when submarines become obsolete but some military weapons can be improved and brought up to standards like the improved Kilo.

I think Garry B would be better to explain about the costs of operating and maintaining a submarine annually. I hope he answers this question.


Also when does a military weapon become obsolete? I know the Mig 29 was introduced in 1982 and it is still a capable aircraft with upgrades like the Mig 29M.

Is there more that the Rus Navy can do in Ukraine? And have their VLS vessels been used to shoot Kalibre at Azov?


And does anyone know what happened between USS Harry S Truman and Ustinov & Varyag?