Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Share
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16007
    Points : 16664
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:34 am

    If a SSBN shoot a SLBM under the Artic iced sea, what happens:
    a) the missile breaks the ice and reaches its target;
    b) the missile breaks the ice but doesn´t reache its target;
    c) the missile explodes against ice.
    If any SSBN were to launch an SLBM submerged under anything but the thinnest of ice the missile would smash against the ice and be damaged or destroyed. Rocket fuel and oxidiser (liquid or solid propellent rockets) would blaze away for half an hour or so... the warheads would not be armed so no nuke explosion.

    Some SSBNs could break through very thin ice a few cms thick and launch missiles while surfaced... the Russian Akula class (NATO codename Typhoon) was design specifically to break through several metres of ice to launch its missiles while surfaced... protected from enemy torpedoes by the ice around it.

    All other SSBNs are not designed to surface in the Arctic through ice to launch their missiles and would likely never take such a risk.



    All SLBMs are paper thin and would shatter or break at the slightest resistance at the waters surface... even minor damage to the nosecone of a missile will lead to instability as it accelerates up leading to the nose cone being "blown off" with a likely catastrophic failure of the missile in flight.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Flyingdutchman
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 547
    Points : 565
    Join date : 2013-07-30
    Location : The Netherlands

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:01 pm

    What about the borei class?
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16007
    Points : 16664
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:36 am

    Borei class don't have the superstructure strength of the Akula (Typhoon) class and also don't have the very high freeboard and are not designed to surface through ice to launch their missiles.

    Their missiles are the Bulava SLBM which are solid fuelled missiles that would be seriously damaged if launched through ice and even if they made it through would not likely retain their structural integrity... ie they would fly off in a funny direction and likely explode.

    The very specific shape of the akulas tower structure was designed to penetrate several metres of ice for the purpose of launching SLBMs.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Naval Fan
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 21
    Points : 29
    Join date : 2015-01-20
    Age : 21
    Location : New Zealand

    What is the estimated range for the Zircon missiles?

    Post  Naval Fan on Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:27 am

    I was reading a thread, and saw that the Russian navy were creating a missile which had a speed of roughly Mach 8. Does anyone have any guesses on the range?
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16007
    Points : 16664
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:01 am

    It is hard to be sure, but we know some range figures for the missiles that have come before it.

    The missile known in the west as Sunburn, or SS-N-22 which is carried on the Sovremmeny class destroyers and some light missile boats has a range of 120km and flies supersonically (1.8 or so at low level and mach 2.2 at medium altitudes) at a height of less than 7m. The highest altitude it attains is 300m to spot its target and then it drops down and attacks from below 7m.

    Later versions were adapted so they flew at higher altitude for the first part of their flight and then dropped down low when they reached the radar horizon to the target, which extended its flight range to about 250km because jet engines are vastly more efficient in the thinner colder air at altitude, plus the fact that it is a rocket ramjet design the solid rocket fuel burns at a set rate for a fixed period of time... at very low altitude it would accelerate the missile to a max speed and then hold it at that speed until it burned out. By climbing however you more efficiently use the high thrust to climb to thinner colder air... the extra energy used in the climb can be recovered in the eventual descent, but the more efficient flight at altitude means moving faster for the same throttle setting which means a lower throttle setting can be used for the same speed or higher speed can be achieved.

    Now the replacement for Granit and Sunburn (3M80) is Onyx, which has been revealed to have a 500km range at altitude and 250km range at low altitude and a speed in the mach 1.8 at low level and 2.5 at medium altitudes.

    The Zircon uses a scramjet, which means the air intake does not need to slow the air flowing through the engine to subsonic speed for combustion.

    To achieve mach 7-8 it will have to fly high but at that sort of speed it is relatively safe as long as it can manouver. The speed doesn't come at the cost of fuel... we are not talking about just dumping lots of fuel into an AB to get the extra speed, this is a much higher thrust engine that retains thrust at very high speed, so flight range should be vastly increased as well as speed.

    I would expect a flight range from at least 500km to maybe 700km but only at high altitude.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    nastle77
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Posts : 185
    Points : 237
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Tarantul III

    Post  nastle77 on Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:42 pm

    Hello
    I wanted to know how many Tarantul III were operational by 1990 and if they were from the beginning armed with SSN-22 sunburn missiles

    Thanks

    Cucumber Khan
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 84
    Points : 85
    Join date : 2015-04-12

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  Cucumber Khan on Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:59 pm

    nastle77 wrote:Hello
    I wanted to know how many Tarantul III were operational by 1990 and if they were from the beginning armed with SSN-22 sunburn missiles

    Thanks

    Check here:
    http://russianships.info/eng/warfareboats/project_12411.htm

    nastle77
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Posts : 185
    Points : 237
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    SSN-21 Granat ( sampson) cruise missile

    Post  nastle77 on Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm

    SSN-21 Granat ( sampson) cruise missile



    By 1990 which of the soviet Subamrines carried this missile ?

    "The new Akula-class submarine, launched in September 1986, was the first class to receive the new missile. It was later fitted to the Sierra I/II class and eight Victor III's "

    This blurb I found on Wikipedia and I know that One yankee class was modified to carry it as well

    Does anybody know if this information is accurate ?
    avatar
    artjomh
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Posts : 151
    Points : 187
    Join date : 2015-07-17

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  artjomh on Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:40 pm

    nastle77 wrote:SSN-21 Granat ( sampson) cruise missile



    By 1990 which of the soviet Subamrines carried this missile ?

    "The new Akula-class submarine, launched in September 1986, was the first class to receive the new missile. It was later fitted to the Sierra I/II class and eight Victor III's "

    This blurb I found on Wikipedia and I know that One yankee class was modified to carry it as well

    Does anybody know if this information is accurate ?

    Do you really need to create a separate article for each of your questions, nastle77?

    To answer your question, Victor III (a modified version, not all of them), Mike, Akula, Yankee Notch (3 were modified) and Sierra II carried Granat.

    Wikipedia is inacurate. Sierra I never carried Granats, only torpedoes and rocket-torpedoes.

    Cucumber Khan
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 84
    Points : 85
    Join date : 2015-04-12

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  Cucumber Khan on Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:31 am

    nastle77 wrote:SSN-21 Granat ( sampson) cruise missile



    By 1990 which of the soviet Subamrines carried this missile ?

    "The new Akula-class submarine, launched in September 1986, was the first class to receive the new missile. It was later fitted to the Sierra I/II class and eight Victor III's "

    This blurb I found on Wikipedia and I know that One yankee class was modified to carry it as well

    Does anybody know if this information is accurate ?

    A single Pr.671, the K-323, was also fitted with the RK-55 missile.

    nastle77
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Posts : 185
    Points : 237
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    These questions about Kara class

    Post  nastle77 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:20 pm

    http://www.military-today.com/navy/kara_class.htm

    A single gas-turbine exhaust funnel dominated the large superstructure. On the ship's stern was a helicopter landing pad with a hangar partially recessed below the flight deck. To stow the ASW helicopter the hanger roof hatch and doors had to be opened; the helicopter was pushed in and then lowered to the deck via an elevator.

    The ship's Shtorm (SA-N-3 Goblet) and Rastrub (SS-N-14 Silex) ASW missiles have secondary anti-ship capabilities, the former having a 25-kiloton nuclear warhead available in place of the normal 150-kg HE type. At the height of the Cold War it is believed that all Soviet ships with dual-capable weapon systems had at least 25 per cent of their missiles equipped with nuclear warheads while at sea.

    Trying not to start too many new threads Wink

    These questions about Kara class

    1-Is it true the SAN-3 had nuke warheads ? WHat were they used against a group of aircraft ? another ship ? since its a dual role missile

    2-Did really soviet dual role weapons have 25 % nuke warheads at sea ?

    Can the helicopters on the Kara class be also used for guidance for cruise missiles like the SSN-3a/b of other ships ?
    avatar
    Anas Ali
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 61
    Points : 108
    Join date : 2013-02-12
    Age : 29
    Location : Egypt

    Radars of the missile Boat P-32

    Post  Anas Ali on Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:14 pm



    as you all know the Russian Government gave Egypt a P-32 Missile Boat as a gift

    i need to know the name of the Radars








    thanks in advance
    avatar
    Stealthflanker
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 802
    Points : 886
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 29
    Location : Indonesia

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:39 pm

    Dark Blue Box = Garpun Bal missile control radar
    Radar in pink box = MR-123 Vympel Gunfire control radar
    Large Radome in green circle = Mineral-ME search radar probably.
    Small radome in light blue box = Not a radar, might be ESM system associated with Garpun radar
    Antenna in red circle = Not a radar, it appears to be a VHF communication radio antenna. or ESM.
    avatar
    jhelb
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 424
    Points : 490
    Join date : 2015-04-04
    Location : Previously: Belarus Currently: A Small Island No One Cares About

    Nuclear Propulsion In Ships

    Post  jhelb on Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:00 pm

    Is it necessary to design bigger ships if it is powered by a nuclear reactor?

    For example will the Lidar class destroyer be larger than the existing destroyers in the Russian Navy because the Lidar will be powered by a nuclear reactor?
    avatar
    Stealthflanker
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 802
    Points : 886
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 29
    Location : Indonesia

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  Stealthflanker on Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:13 pm

    jhelb wrote:Is it necessary to design bigger ships if it is powered by a nuclear reactor?

    For example will the Lidar class destroyer be larger than the existing destroyers in the Russian Navy because the Lidar will be powered by a nuclear reactor?

    Usually yes, as shielding in nuclear reactor usually take quite amount of space.
    avatar
    jhelb
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 424
    Points : 490
    Join date : 2015-04-04
    Location : Previously: Belarus Currently: A Small Island No One Cares About

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  jhelb on Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:50 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:Usually yes, as shielding in nuclear reactor usually take quite amount of space.

    Thanks Stealthflanker. So basically the only advantage of a nuclear reactor in a destroyer or aircraft carrier is that it helps to cut down on the number of supply ships. Have I got that right?
    avatar
    artjomh
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Posts : 151
    Points : 187
    Join date : 2015-07-17

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  artjomh on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:24 pm

    jhelb wrote:Is it necessary to design bigger ships if it is powered by a nuclear reactor?

    Yes. Read this: https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL33946.pdf

    Americans did a cost study of nuclear propulsion and concluded that a small surface ship with a nuclear propulsion would only break even (compared to an diesel/gas-powered ships) if oil prices over the lifetime of the ship (30-40 years) average above $210 per barrel, given high operational tempo.

    Comparatively, a medium-sized surface combatant would require oil to be above $70 per barrel for nuclear propulsion to be cheaper than oil-based propulsion over the lifetime of the ship.

    In that study, "small surface combatants" displaced between 7900 and 11900 tons, while "medium surface combatants" evaluated displaced between 21600 and 37700 tons.

    Additionally, the cost premium of a nuclear power plant was assessed to be ~80% for a small ship, but only ~22% for a medium-size ship (at $600-700 million additional cost)

    https://seagrant.mit.edu/ESRDC_library/Webster_James_AlternativePropulsionMethods.pdf

    slasher
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 6
    Points : 6
    Join date : 2015-09-28

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  slasher on Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:18 pm

    hi, could anyone help identify this ship?

    Taken from http://tass.ru/en/defense/831321

    avatar
    artjomh
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Posts : 151
    Points : 187
    Join date : 2015-07-17

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  artjomh on Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:50 am

    slasher wrote:hi, could anyone help identify this ship?

    Taken from http://tass.ru/en/defense/831321

    Project 537 rescue vessel ALAGEZ
    avatar
    jhelb
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 424
    Points : 490
    Join date : 2015-04-04
    Location : Previously: Belarus Currently: A Small Island No One Cares About

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  jhelb on Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:22 am

    Is it possible to calculate the Velocity (not acceleration) of the missiles fired by the S-300F? Or for that matter the Velocity of any SAM missile? Thanks.
    avatar
    artjomh
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Posts : 151
    Points : 187
    Join date : 2015-07-17

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  artjomh on Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:24 pm

    jhelb wrote:Is it possible to calculate the Velocity (not acceleration) of the missiles fired by the S-300F? Or for that matter the Velocity of any SAM missile? Thanks.

    Straight from the horse's mouth (OKB Fakel): Vavg = 900-1000 m/s

    http://pvo.guns.ru/book/fakel/new_gen.htm

    For 5V55 in particular, Said Aminov gives a Vmax = 2000 m/s, and Said is pretty reliable.

    http://pvo.guns.ru/s300p/data_sam.htm

    slasher
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 6
    Points : 6
    Join date : 2015-09-28

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  slasher on Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:45 pm

    artjomh wrote:
    slasher wrote:hi, could anyone help identify this ship?

    Taken from http://tass.ru/en/defense/831321

    Project 537 rescue vessel ALAGEZ


    Thanks.
    avatar
    jhelb
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 424
    Points : 490
    Join date : 2015-04-04
    Location : Previously: Belarus Currently: A Small Island No One Cares About

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  jhelb on Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:53 pm

    artjomh wrote:Straight from the horse's mouth (OKB Fakel): Vavg = 900-1000 m/s

    http://pvo.guns.ru/book/fakel/new_gen.htm

    For 5V55 in particular, Said Aminov gives a Vmax = 2000 m/s, and Said is pretty reliable.

    http://pvo.guns.ru/s300p/data_sam.htm

    Great find artjomh. My vote.
    avatar
    max steel
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3001
    Points : 3033
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  max steel on Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:25 pm

    Sailors sayinvariably subs “sink” the surface force.

    Yes, this has been true since the early 60's. Thats why Nuclear Attack Subs operate as long range ASW screen for Carrier Forces. This has helped a lot in preventing enemy subs from approaching. But, only to a limited degree. Ocean water is much more than it seems. temperature differences abound with depth and currents. Sound in water is reflected or deflected by temp erature gradiants.

    Long and short in, a Sub measures these temperature differences constantly, and can hide with ease in and under layers. Fresher and saltier water also creates reflection or defelction layers. again, the Sub records these constantly. Leaving plenty of hiding places.

    This all makes a Sub able to evade other subs and approach the surface task forces. Exercises repeatedly prove this. And when US Subs exercise, they attempt to mimic what we know about Chinese or Russian capabilites. Their sub does not assume American capabilites and use them to the full, they try to mimic the supposed enemy.

    But is it true that with Russian submarines this often can't be done, due to the large operational technical differences ??

    It is an axiom in the Submarine fleet and in the Anti Submarine Warfare schools that Subs sink Carriers. Thats just how it is .
    avatar
    chinggis
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 35
    Points : 40
    Join date : 2015-06-11
    Age : 49
    Location : karlovac, croatia

    Anti skid

    Post  chinggis on Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:26 pm

    Anyone know maybe, why SU or Russia do not have on ships deck anti skid surface? What we are see on NATO or US ships.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue May 23, 2017 3:19 am