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    Questions Thread: Russian Navy

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    Diego-9

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    SLBM under ice sea

    Post  Diego-9 on Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:14 pm

    Добрый Вечер

    If a SSBN shoot a SLBM under the Artic iced sea, what happens:
    a) the missile breaks the ice and reaches its target;
    b) the missile breaks the ice but doesn´t reache its target;
    c) the missile explodes against ice.

    I think it depends of gross of ice and the type of SLBM.

    Please, answer you in: Spanish, French or English language.
    I can writte in Russian language but very slow, letter to letter.
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    TR1

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  TR1 on Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:29 pm

    I am not aware of any testing to break the ice with the missile itself- submarines on the other hand can break ice of relative thin thickness.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:34 am

    If a SSBN shoot a SLBM under the Artic iced sea, what happens:
    a) the missile breaks the ice and reaches its target;
    b) the missile breaks the ice but doesn´t reache its target;
    c) the missile explodes against ice.
    If any SSBN were to launch an SLBM submerged under anything but the thinnest of ice the missile would smash against the ice and be damaged or destroyed. Rocket fuel and oxidiser (liquid or solid propellent rockets) would blaze away for half an hour or so... the warheads would not be armed so no nuke explosion.

    Some SSBNs could break through very thin ice a few cms thick and launch missiles while surfaced... the Russian Akula class (NATO codename Typhoon) was design specifically to break through several metres of ice to launch its missiles while surfaced... protected from enemy torpedoes by the ice around it.

    All other SSBNs are not designed to surface in the Arctic through ice to launch their missiles and would likely never take such a risk.



    All SLBMs are paper thin and would shatter or break at the slightest resistance at the waters surface... even minor damage to the nosecone of a missile will lead to instability as it accelerates up leading to the nose cone being "blown off" with a likely catastrophic failure of the missile in flight.


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    Flyingdutchman

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:01 pm

    What about the borei class?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:36 am

    Borei class don't have the superstructure strength of the Akula (Typhoon) class and also don't have the very high freeboard and are not designed to surface through ice to launch their missiles.

    Their missiles are the Bulava SLBM which are solid fuelled missiles that would be seriously damaged if launched through ice and even if they made it through would not likely retain their structural integrity... ie they would fly off in a funny direction and likely explode.

    The very specific shape of the akulas tower structure was designed to penetrate several metres of ice for the purpose of launching SLBMs.


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    Naval Fan

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    What is the estimated range for the Zircon missiles?

    Post  Naval Fan on Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:27 am

    I was reading a thread, and saw that the Russian navy were creating a missile which had a speed of roughly Mach 8. Does anyone have any guesses on the range?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:01 am

    It is hard to be sure, but we know some range figures for the missiles that have come before it.

    The missile known in the west as Sunburn, or SS-N-22 which is carried on the Sovremmeny class destroyers and some light missile boats has a range of 120km and flies supersonically (1.8 or so at low level and mach 2.2 at medium altitudes) at a height of less than 7m. The highest altitude it attains is 300m to spot its target and then it drops down and attacks from below 7m.

    Later versions were adapted so they flew at higher altitude for the first part of their flight and then dropped down low when they reached the radar horizon to the target, which extended its flight range to about 250km because jet engines are vastly more efficient in the thinner colder air at altitude, plus the fact that it is a rocket ramjet design the solid rocket fuel burns at a set rate for a fixed period of time... at very low altitude it would accelerate the missile to a max speed and then hold it at that speed until it burned out. By climbing however you more efficiently use the high thrust to climb to thinner colder air... the extra energy used in the climb can be recovered in the eventual descent, but the more efficient flight at altitude means moving faster for the same throttle setting which means a lower throttle setting can be used for the same speed or higher speed can be achieved.

    Now the replacement for Granit and Sunburn (3M80) is Onyx, which has been revealed to have a 500km range at altitude and 250km range at low altitude and a speed in the mach 1.8 at low level and 2.5 at medium altitudes.

    The Zircon uses a scramjet, which means the air intake does not need to slow the air flowing through the engine to subsonic speed for combustion.

    To achieve mach 7-8 it will have to fly high but at that sort of speed it is relatively safe as long as it can manouver. The speed doesn't come at the cost of fuel... we are not talking about just dumping lots of fuel into an AB to get the extra speed, this is a much higher thrust engine that retains thrust at very high speed, so flight range should be vastly increased as well as speed.

    I would expect a flight range from at least 500km to maybe 700km but only at high altitude.


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    Anas Ali

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    Radars of the missile Boat P-32

    Post  Anas Ali on Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:14 pm



    as you all know the Russian Government gave Egypt a P-32 Missile Boat as a gift

    i need to know the name of the Radars








    thanks in advance
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:39 pm

    Dark Blue Box = Garpun Bal missile control radar
    Radar in pink box = MR-123 Vympel Gunfire control radar
    Large Radome in green circle = Mineral-ME search radar probably.
    Small radome in light blue box = Not a radar, might be ESM system associated with Garpun radar
    Antenna in red circle = Not a radar, it appears to be a VHF communication radio antenna. or ESM.
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    jhelb

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    Nuclear Propulsion In Ships

    Post  jhelb on Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:00 pm

    Is it necessary to design bigger ships if it is powered by a nuclear reactor?

    For example will the Lidar class destroyer be larger than the existing destroyers in the Russian Navy because the Lidar will be powered by a nuclear reactor?
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  Stealthflanker on Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:13 pm

    jhelb wrote:Is it necessary to design bigger ships if it is powered by a nuclear reactor?

    For example will the Lidar class destroyer be larger than the existing destroyers in the Russian Navy because the Lidar will be powered by a nuclear reactor?

    Usually yes, as shielding in nuclear reactor usually take quite amount of space.
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    jhelb

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  jhelb on Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:50 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:Usually yes, as shielding in nuclear reactor usually take quite amount of space.

    Thanks Stealthflanker. So basically the only advantage of a nuclear reactor in a destroyer or aircraft carrier is that it helps to cut down on the number of supply ships. Have I got that right?
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    artjomh

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  artjomh on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:24 pm

    jhelb wrote:Is it necessary to design bigger ships if it is powered by a nuclear reactor?

    Yes. Read this: https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL33946.pdf

    Americans did a cost study of nuclear propulsion and concluded that a small surface ship with a nuclear propulsion would only break even (compared to an diesel/gas-powered ships) if oil prices over the lifetime of the ship (30-40 years) average above $210 per barrel, given high operational tempo.

    Comparatively, a medium-sized surface combatant would require oil to be above $70 per barrel for nuclear propulsion to be cheaper than oil-based propulsion over the lifetime of the ship.

    In that study, "small surface combatants" displaced between 7900 and 11900 tons, while "medium surface combatants" evaluated displaced between 21600 and 37700 tons.

    Additionally, the cost premium of a nuclear power plant was assessed to be ~80% for a small ship, but only ~22% for a medium-size ship (at $600-700 million additional cost)

    https://seagrant.mit.edu/ESRDC_library/Webster_James_AlternativePropulsionMethods.pdf

    slasher

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  slasher on Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:18 pm

    hi, could anyone help identify this ship?

    Taken from http://tass.ru/en/defense/831321

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    artjomh

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  artjomh on Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:50 am

    slasher wrote:hi, could anyone help identify this ship?

    Taken from http://tass.ru/en/defense/831321

    Project 537 rescue vessel ALAGEZ
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    jhelb

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  jhelb on Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:22 am

    Is it possible to calculate the Velocity (not acceleration) of the missiles fired by the S-300F? Or for that matter the Velocity of any SAM missile? Thanks.
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    artjomh

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  artjomh on Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:24 pm

    jhelb wrote:Is it possible to calculate the Velocity (not acceleration) of the missiles fired by the S-300F? Or for that matter the Velocity of any SAM missile? Thanks.

    Straight from the horse's mouth (OKB Fakel): Vavg = 900-1000 m/s

    http://pvo.guns.ru/book/fakel/new_gen.htm

    For 5V55 in particular, Said Aminov gives a Vmax = 2000 m/s, and Said is pretty reliable.

    http://pvo.guns.ru/s300p/data_sam.htm

    slasher

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  slasher on Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:45 pm

    artjomh wrote:
    slasher wrote:hi, could anyone help identify this ship?

    Taken from http://tass.ru/en/defense/831321

    Project 537 rescue vessel ALAGEZ


    Thanks.
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    jhelb

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  jhelb on Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:53 pm

    artjomh wrote:Straight from the horse's mouth (OKB Fakel): Vavg = 900-1000 m/s

    http://pvo.guns.ru/book/fakel/new_gen.htm

    For 5V55 in particular, Said Aminov gives a Vmax = 2000 m/s, and Said is pretty reliable.

    http://pvo.guns.ru/s300p/data_sam.htm

    Great find artjomh. My vote.
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    max steel

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  max steel on Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:25 pm

    Sailors sayinvariably subs “sink” the surface force.

    Yes, this has been true since the early 60's. Thats why Nuclear Attack Subs operate as long range ASW screen for Carrier Forces. This has helped a lot in preventing enemy subs from approaching. But, only to a limited degree. Ocean water is much more than it seems. temperature differences abound with depth and currents. Sound in water is reflected or deflected by temp erature gradiants.

    Long and short in, a Sub measures these temperature differences constantly, and can hide with ease in and under layers. Fresher and saltier water also creates reflection or defelction layers. again, the Sub records these constantly. Leaving plenty of hiding places.

    This all makes a Sub able to evade other subs and approach the surface task forces. Exercises repeatedly prove this. And when US Subs exercise, they attempt to mimic what we know about Chinese or Russian capabilites. Their sub does not assume American capabilites and use them to the full, they try to mimic the supposed enemy.

    But is it true that with Russian submarines this often can't be done, due to the large operational technical differences ??

    It is an axiom in the Submarine fleet and in the Anti Submarine Warfare schools that Subs sink Carriers. Thats just how it is .
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    chinggis

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    Anti skid

    Post  chinggis on Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:26 pm

    Anyone know maybe, why SU or Russia do not have on ships deck anti skid surface? What we are see on NATO or US ships.
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    GarryB

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    Anyone know maybe, why SU or Russia do not have on ships deck anti skid surface? What we are see on NATO or US ships.

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:52 am

    AFAIK all the Kiev class vessels had a heat resistant surface to prevent damage from downward vectored jet engines... AFAIK it was also anti skid.

    Regarding the Kuznetsov AFAIK it also has a heat resistant surface.

    Their subs all have noise reducing rubber tiles on their exterior... I don't see why they (and the heat resistant tiles) couldn't also have anti skid properties as well.

    Of course when covered in 50cm of ice there is no such think as an anti skid surface...


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    KiloGolf

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    Project 1174: Ivan Rogov

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:03 am

    Why has this class been abandoned by the Russian Navy. I know the 90s and early 00s left all three unused, but surely the remaining to can be brought back to service. It's such a waste to not use something you have. Especially M Moskalenko is quite new, built just in 1990. Shocked





    and here's a shot taken last summer:
    http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2274791

    PS. Syrian express can surely use one of them, if not both.

    marat

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  marat on Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:32 am

    Russia will have no big LS at least in next 6 years and i would be great to see Rogov on sea again. but i nevere heard that they planed to do so...
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    Rodion_Romanovic

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:24 pm

    marat wrote:Russia will have no big LS at least in next 6 years and i would be great to see Rogov on sea again. but i nevere heard that they planed to do so...

    They are considering it, but it would be quite expensive to upgrade these 2 (comparable with the cost of a new vessel, and they need an available shipyard and a few years...
    Apparently Yantar Shipyard could do it, but not before 2018.

    there are two articles (in russian) about it, you can use open them with google chrome and use the function to automatically translate them

    EDIT: I'm not yet allowed to post links(since I just joined), I'll just  quote here a quick extract from the articles


    I"m posting here just two small extracts
    using google translate for the first article (dated May 27, 2015
    vpk-news.ru/news/25408 wrote:

    "Cases of these ships are in good condition, but to restore their technical readiness, if necessary, will require a considerable amount of repairs, including the replacement of the main power plants" - a spokesman said.

    At the same time, he stressed that "as long as no decision to this effect has been taken."
    and for the second...
    gazeta.ru/politics/2014/12/22_a_6355693.shtml wrote:

    A source in the military-industrial circles told "Gazeta.ru", that one of the options to replace "Mistral" is the restoration of the Soviet large landing ships (BDK) Project 1174 "Rhinoceros." Who is the preservation of the two ships of the project - "Alexander Nikolaev" and "Mitrofan Moskalenko." To restore them, it will take several years and billions of rubles.

    "There is, firstly, the need to examine the body, how it is worn, it should be changed. Surely already rotted lightweight aluminum bulkheads, may require replacement siding. And secondly, it is necessary to completely change all the equipment on modern, "- told" Gazeta.ru "a senior official of the Nevsky Design Bureau (PCB), to develop" Rhinoceros. "

    According to him, the budget restoration work has not miscalculate.

    "Everything will depend on money. The more it is allocated, the more people will be able to do it. First you need to develop terms of reference, we can do it with the leadership of the Navy, and then will need to select a plant that will upgrade. And it must be a large factory. If there's going to work 1.5 thousand. People, of whom 500 were allocated for repair, and 300 - on the ship, such repair will be delayed at least ten years ", - said the representative of the Nevsky PKB.


    He cited the example of the project of modernization of the aircraft carrier "Admiral Gorshkov" aircraft carrier converted into an Indian "Vikramaditya". "This project took eight years, even to the" Sevmash ", and possibly" Sevmash "today does not have any other shipyard. Of course, "Gorshkov" four to six times more "Rhino" and "Sevmash" is now loaded for the full program, and will not do it "- said the" Gazety.Ru ".

    At the Baltic Shipyard "Yantar", where both ships were built, "Gazeta.ru" confirmed that they are ready to take an order for modernization "Moskalenko" and "Nikolaev", but not before 2018. At the same time representative of the plant suggested that would be wiser to engage in the modernization of one of the Far Eastern shipyards with specialists from other companies.

    Military expert, founder of the portal Military Russia Dmitry Kornev said "Gazeta.ru" that without significant alterations "Rhinos" will not be able to replace the "Mistral" and major changes may catch up with the cost of the creation of a new ship.



    From what I read, the only new thing that could be used for the sirian express will be the Ivan Gren that will be commissioned in the next few months

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