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    Questions Thread: Russian Navy

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    medo
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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  medo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:21 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    medo wrote:I would more like to ask about their replacement. Years ago there were plans for Katran and Scorpion missile boats,but now no news about them. I think at least one Scorpion boat was in building.

    21631 methinks is excellent replacement.

    Agree, Buyan-M could be good replacement, although it is with 74 m length a corvette and no more a boat. Maybe for other fleets it should be equipped with Palash/Palma system instead of Duet and Gibka SAM systems to be more effective in self defense and air defense.

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 01, 2012 9:23 am

    I dont think that VLS is needed for fast attack missile boats.

    I was thinking in terms of standardisation.

    They seem to be fitting every vessel they are making with UKSK launchers and that includes the Mistrals from corvettes up to carriers. I agree a FAC wont have the hull depth to have UKSK launchers and deck mounted clusters of 4 Kh-35s would be ideal... they are so compact they could fit 8 missiles for each Styx missile so even an old vessel can carry 16 missiles which in their latest version have a range of 240km which is formidible.

    What I was thinking was that the depth and width of the UKSK tubes you could probably fit two stacks of 3-4 missiles per tube, so instead of one Klub you could carry 6-8 Kh-35s ready to launch.

    It is about flexibility and of course usefulness. The Kh-35 becomes a much more useful weapon if suddenly every naval vessel in the fleet can carry a large number of them... especially if you make different versions of the Kh-35 like land attack models and IIR guided weapons with a lock on after launch capability and completely passive homing.

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    Russian Ships in St Petersburg

    Post  johns624 on Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:12 am

    My wife and I just got back from a Baltic cruise. While in St Petersburg, we took the hydrofoil back from Peterhof. When we entered the Neva River, I was surprised to see two frigates/corvettes docked on the north bank. I didn't have time to take any pictures. My Janes Warship Recognition Guide is from 2006 and nothing looks familier. The hull (pennant) numbers were 161 and 162. Can anyone help me out with classes/names?

    TR1
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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  TR1 on Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:42 am

    Did they have large anti ship missile tubes, or those round looking Anti-submarine rocket launchers?

    None of the larger new ships (20380 corvettes) have those numbers, so I am thinking it is a smaller ship.

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  johns624 on Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:56 am

    I didn't get a good look but they had a turreted cannon on the forecastle and what appeared to be a small twin automatic cannon on each side of the after superstructure. It was hard to tell since they were covered with tan tarps. They were bigger than the Russian Coast Guard cutter next to them.

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  TR1 on Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:09 am

    Ahh, that helps.

    Did they look like this? :
    http://www.scalespeed.com/Images/TarantulIII.jpg
    http://www.ausairpower.net/Tarantul-Corvette-DNSC9701565-1S.jpg

    I am having trouble finding any corvettes/missile/anti-submarine boats in the Baltic with those numbers on them.

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  TR1 on Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:13 am

    Come to think of it, you mentioned it was covered in tarp, maybe an export vessel under construction?

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  TR1 on Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:18 am

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-El4pix7ZCSQ/T5G7weF1iJI/AAAAAAAAEvs/BF2JanBd5rg/s1600/Koni.jpg

    Algerian boats like this one are under modernization @ Severnaya.

    EDIT:

    ALso a number of these were built for Vietnam, but I am not sure of the Hull numbers while in Russia:
    http://njanokuku.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/tarantul4-1.jpg

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  johns624 on Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:29 am

    Just the guns had tarps over them, not the whole boat.

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:10 am

    So the guns were open turret designs?

    Sounds like border patrol gun boats.

    Only 37mm and 25mm gun mounts commonly have open mounts and they are becoming more and more rare... mainly kept on mine hunters for shooting mines on the surface...


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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  johns624 on Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:48 am

    I found a local library that had a copy of Janes Fighting Ships 2010-11. It appears that what I saw were two Pauk (Type 12412) ships. In the book, they were painted dark gray with stripes and lettered for the Border Guards. The two that I saw were in fresh dark gray like most Russian ships. I checked pennant numbers and the Janes list skipped from 161 to 163. I wrote down that the two I saw were 161 and 162.

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:47 am

    AFAIK Russian and Soviet Pennant numbers were not fixed and were subject to change.


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    Russian Naval Liquid Metal Cooled Reactor Question

    Post  Stealthflanker on Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:22 pm

    As the title said..

    We know that during 1950-1970 era, some of Soviet/Russia Submarines were powered using Liquid metal cooled reactor..like the Project 705 Lira (Alfa class) and Project 661 Anchar (papa class).. they're developed by OKB Gidropress..hmm which now developing and offering such reactors (Sodium and Lead Bismuth Euthetics) for power generation application.

    Anyway i wonder if there's anymore reactor of that kind (Liquid Metal Cooled) developed or deployed today for naval propulsion, or did the Russian navy completely abandoned it in favor of more common Pressurized Water Reactor ?

    many thanks for any given answers thumbsup

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:52 am

    I seem to remember they were looking at helium cooled reactors, or it might have been nitrogen cooled reactors.

    The main problem with water cooled reactors is that you have to have high pressure so that it stays water and doesn't turn into steam at the hundreds of degrees they are working at.

    Very simply the problem with water is that if you keep heating it... it turns to steam... if you heat it more and more eventually the hydrogen and oxygen separate... hydrogen on its own would be fine... it would burn in air but not explode, but when it is created from water it also releases oxygen... and when you mix hydrogen and pure oxygen at very high temperatures you get an explosion.

    Using liquid metal was great because it can run at very high temperatures without exploding in the pipes... the main problem is that you need to keep them running... it is like a concrete mixer full of concrete... turn it off for a period of time and the metal hardens and you need to chuck the whole system out and put in a new one...

    I remember reading about their designs for ship based portable reactors they could sail to far north areas in Russia... even down rivers where it could generate power and hot water supplies and heat for a small community.

    I can't remember what material they were talking about using as a coolant but the idea was to have a closed cooling system that was connected to a pump that could pump in water from the river or sea the boat was in to further cool the coolant but without radiation leaving the vessel. The result was hundreds of thousands of litres of fresh water a day and all the hot water you might need... together with the electricity of course.


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    ali.a.r
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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  ali.a.r on Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:15 pm

    This seems like as good a thread to ask this, so Ill just go ahead. I learnt that Western subs have a crew-rotation policy, at least for their SSBNs, where while one crew is out at sea with the boat, the second crew gets R&R and some training, and when the first crew finishes their patrol, the second crew take over. Blue and Gold crews, I think they were called.

    Do Russian subs have some sort of similar crew cycle?

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:23 am

    AFAIK Russian boomers have a much lower operational tempo compared with US subs, but the Soviet subs are generally larger and roomier so they don't have to put up with the US practise of "hot racking".

    For those not familiar with life on a sub it basically has three crews that work 8 hours on and 16 hours off, so, say with 90 sailors on board you might use 30 to sail the boat, which leaves 30 asleep, and 30 resting or at meals. The result is that a boat with 90 crew will have 30 bunks for crew to sleep in that will be used all the time... three crewmen to a single bunk.

    On an Akula there is a room for 2-3 crewmen and each man has his own bunk and space... in addition there are at least three aviaries (with live birds), at least 3 libraries, 3 gyms and a movie theatre...


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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:03 pm

    Who says Russian weapon weapon designers don't care about crew comfort Laughing ?

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:54 am

    can Russian subs survive a hit from a western AS torpedo(mk.48 for example)just enough time so it can surface and its crew can survive?

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:05 am

    Not really a question anyone could actually answer.

    Depends on the target and the torpedo and the guidance lock and a hundred other aspects like depth etc.

    Soviet subs had a lot of reserve bouyancy and were fully compartmentalised like western subs... but they also had double hull designs which would maximise their ability to survive.


    Think of it like a seat belt... I can't say a seat belt will keep you safe in a crash, but that is no reason to not wear one.


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    SLBM under ice sea

    Post  Diego-9 on Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:14 pm

    Добрый Вечер

    If a SSBN shoot a SLBM under the Artic iced sea, what happens:
    a) the missile breaks the ice and reaches its target;
    b) the missile breaks the ice but doesn´t reache its target;
    c) the missile explodes against ice.

    I think it depends of gross of ice and the type of SLBM.

    Please, answer you in: Spanish, French or English language.
    I can writte in Russian language but very slow, letter to letter.

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  TR1 on Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:29 pm

    I am not aware of any testing to break the ice with the missile itself- submarines on the other hand can break ice of relative thin thickness.


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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:34 am

    If a SSBN shoot a SLBM under the Artic iced sea, what happens:
    a) the missile breaks the ice and reaches its target;
    b) the missile breaks the ice but doesn´t reache its target;
    c) the missile explodes against ice.
    If any SSBN were to launch an SLBM submerged under anything but the thinnest of ice the missile would smash against the ice and be damaged or destroyed. Rocket fuel and oxidiser (liquid or solid propellent rockets) would blaze away for half an hour or so... the warheads would not be armed so no nuke explosion.

    Some SSBNs could break through very thin ice a few cms thick and launch missiles while surfaced... the Russian Akula class (NATO codename Typhoon) was design specifically to break through several metres of ice to launch its missiles while surfaced... protected from enemy torpedoes by the ice around it.

    All other SSBNs are not designed to surface in the Arctic through ice to launch their missiles and would likely never take such a risk.



    All SLBMs are paper thin and would shatter or break at the slightest resistance at the waters surface... even minor damage to the nosecone of a missile will lead to instability as it accelerates up leading to the nose cone being "blown off" with a likely catastrophic failure of the missile in flight.


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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:01 pm

    What about the borei class?

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    Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:36 am

    Borei class don't have the superstructure strength of the Akula (Typhoon) class and also don't have the very high freeboard and are not designed to surface through ice to launch their missiles.

    Their missiles are the Bulava SLBM which are solid fuelled missiles that would be seriously damaged if launched through ice and even if they made it through would not likely retain their structural integrity... ie they would fly off in a funny direction and likely explode.

    The very specific shape of the akulas tower structure was designed to penetrate several metres of ice for the purpose of launching SLBMs.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Are Seaplanes underrated?

    Post  andalusia on Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:13 am

    While it is a pro US forum;  the author makes a compelling case for Seaplanes.  If you can read the information for what it is and apply what he is saying to Russia, China, India or Iran.  These countries can have a compelling advantage over the U.S. and Nato.

    http://www.combatreform.org/seaplanetransports.htm

    http://www.combatreform.org/seaplanefighters.htm

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