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    WWII stuff from the Ukraine war thread.

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    Firebird


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    Post  Firebird Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:43 pm

    An absolutely despicable and scummy narrative was being peddled at the Normandy landing memorials.
    Scum like Bidet, the media and Euro-puppets were pretending VVP is like Hitler.
    Of course they omit the fact that GAYTO is orchestrating the Nazis and Russia is eliminating them.
    They also omit the fact that Russia lost 27 to 38 MILLION lives to save GAYTO arses from Hitler.


    Yet another aspect that demonstrates Putin was far too soft for far too long.
    Since before 2014 in fact.

    These neoimperialist scum in Davos on Washington need to be hit hard.

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Jun 08, 2024 2:45 am

    The USSR didn't go to war with the Germans over the west, they did it because the Germans attacked them.

    Frankly put Stalin did not care one bit, that France was attacked etc, so don't sit there and act like they went "oh no the Germans attacked people we have to do a no le sacrifice and help them"

    It was a common enemy nothing more
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 08, 2024 3:41 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The USSR didn't go to war with the Germans over the west, they did it because the Germans attacked them.

    Frankly put Stalin did not care one bit, that France was attacked etc, so don't sit there and act like they went "oh no the Germans attacked people we have to do a no le sacrifice and help them"

    It was a common enemy nothing more

    Then why did Molotov spend the 30s opposing Nazi Germany in the League of Nations?
    Then why did the Soviets fight the Germans and Italians in Spain?
    Why did Stalin want to send troops through Poland to Czechoslovakia to prevent its partition?

    The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was about buying time, little else.

    I remember reading the memoires of a Soviet Air Marshall written in the 70s. There he actually preempts the accusations of today, by touching on the topic of the agreement of the USSR and Germany; where he says something along the lines that in the officer corps everyone knew that a war with Germany was coming. Along with a war with Japan. Those were the enemies.

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Jun 08, 2024 3:59 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The USSR didn't go to war with the Germans over the west, they did it because the Germans attacked them.

    Frankly put Stalin did not care one bit, that France was attacked etc, so don't sit there and act like they went "oh no the Germans attacked people we have to do a no le sacrifice and help them"I'm

    It was a common enemy nothing more

    Then why did Molotov spend the 30s opposing Nazi Germany in the League of Nations?
    Then why did the Soviets fight the Germans and Italians in Spain?
    Why did Stalin want to send troops through Poland to Czechoslovakia to prevent its partition?

    The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was about buying time, little else.

    I remember reading the memoires of a Soviet Air Marshall written in the 70s. There he actually preempts the accusations of today, by touching on the topic of the agreement of the USSR and Germany; where he says something along the lines that in the officer corps everyone knew that a war with Germany was coming. Along with a war with Japan. Those were the enemies.

    Indeed it the war between them was coming sooner or later, The Germans merely attacked the Russians before the Russians them.

    However that's besides the point, the USSR sis not engage against the Germans to save the west, it was not to rescue the west, the Germans where merely their enemy and when to behave a common enemy you work together.

    So someone trying to say the USSR got so many of its own wn killed to save another country is just out right lying and rewriting history
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 08, 2024 4:43 am

    So someone trying to say the USSR got so many of its own wn killed to save another country is just out right lying and rewriting history

    They are not saying the Soviets saved the west... they are mostly saying the west did what Stalin wanted to do, which was wait till the west and the germans were hard at it and let them fight each other and bleed each other and then when a decision was becoming obvious to step in and grab as much land as you can before the boundaries are set in stone.

    If D Day had happened in 1942 then Eastern Europe might have just been Europe and the west would have lost 15 million soldiers fighting the Germans to kick them out of Europe.

    What happened instead was that Stalin and Germany went at it while the western allies watched on and played a token role in events till 1944 when they realised if they didn't pull finger and start invading Europe there would be nothing left for them to liberate.

    As it was the Yalta agreements essentially handed Eastern Europe to Stalin for the work of the Soviet Union in defeating the Germans.

    They even put in a clause to demand the Soviets open a front on the Japanese within a period of time because the Americans were afraid they might end up fighting from island to island in the Pacific for the next ten years.

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:25 am

    No that's what they said, that the USSR saved us from the Germans.

    Also cute historical revisions, we did not wait, the government wanted to get into ww2 sooner but the public wasn't for it, America was different back then.

    He'll we wanted to attack Japan before they attacked us but we couldn't because the public did not what war, it wasn't until pearl harbor we got the excuse we wanted.

    Hence why we lied and said German planes where at Pearl harbor justify declaring war on them
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    Post  ALAMO Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:52 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:No that's what they said, that the USSR saved us from the Germans.
    Also cute historical revisions, we did not wait, the government wanted to get into ww2 sooner but the public wasn't for it, America was different back then.
    He'll we wanted to attack Japan before they attacked us but we couldn't because the public did not what war, it wasn't until pearl harbor we got the excuse we wanted.
    Hence why we lied and said German planes where at Pearl harbor justify declaring war on them

    Firstly, no, the SU was not going to attack Germany back in 1941 - it is nonsense constructed on a wave of anti-Russian propaganda of the 90s.
    As the guys have already said, the Soviet Union has spent an entire decade opposing Hitler.
    Offering not only political and material support but a direct military intervention when needed.
    SU was the last country that dealt with Germany anyhow, and only because no such agreements could be signed with the other European powers.
    Ironically, Poland signed a pact with Hitler much earlier, where both sides agreed on the spheres of interest in a third country, behind its back. The sole thing that differed the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact from Ribbentrop-Beck one, was its smaller scale limited to a few dozen km2.
    Secondly, the Soviet Union saved your Murican arses directly, if only considered from a wider perspective.
    If they would lose to Hitler, it would lead to allied Europe back in the 40s.
    Europe allied under fascism/nazi ideology, with all the Soviet resources.
    Outnumbering you 2:1, and having a different idea of Monroe doctrine.
    You would have imperial Japan in Asia keeping their eyes on the whole Pacific, with nazi based united Europe - the second having clear interests and connections in South America.
    They would have wiped you out from the map, just like in "The Man in the Iron Castle" or "Vaterland".
    Thirdly, what the Roosevelt administration was doing, was a directly pushing Japan into the war, which escalated in the 30s. This was a clear breach of the Monroe Doctrine, showing already that "the rule-based order" means to the US rules that are being figured out by them and applied to the others, not them.

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    Post  Mir Sat Jun 08, 2024 7:25 am

    Secondly, the Soviet Union saved your Murican arses directly, if only considered from a wider perspective.

    From a much wider perspective - the US and its western allies expected the Soviets to be defeated by the Nazis. Only then would they attack Germany as its military would have been depleted. Then Stalingrad happened and the tide was turned in 1943.

    The western allies only managed to scrape D-Day together a year later when they realized that the Soviets not only single-handedly destroyed the Nazis, but that the whole of Europe could fall under the Soviet sphere. What a frightful thought!  Laughing

    In reality Stalin had not interest in conquering Europe. His idea was a number of satellite states bordering the USSR as a barrier against US imperialism.

    You only have to look at current history to know that he was right.

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    Post  ucmvulcan Sat Jun 08, 2024 7:32 pm

    Oh jeesh not the Viktor Suvorov hypothesis again.  Look I know this will be moved to off topic and/or history section soon so I am not gonna get deep into this, but for all those who keep belching out M-Day and Icebreaker and the Chief Culprit, sorry but the math and the data just doesn't back it up.  Russia was in the midst of a massive scale up of its army but that has more to do with the fact that while paranoid and power hungry, Stalin was no fool and knew that sooner rather than later the Soviet Union was on the menu.  He hoped against hope that he had until 1943 and so ignored -at his peril- a lot of evidence from X and Sorge and others that Germany was committed to war in 1941.  Buh but Constantine Pleshekov and Stalin's folly?  Yeah, the Red Army did hope for a crushing halt of the Wehrmacht at the border and then a massive counterstroke.  This was the Soviet hope seen in such films as If There is War Tomorrow (not to be confused with Tomorrow was the War), however as David Glantz and others have observed Russia was not ready for any war in 1941, offensive otherwise.  The notion that the USSR was plotting to drive an army of bolshevik revolution in 1941 is . . . . Well its a load of neoconservative revisionism and Nazi sympathizer manure.

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    Post  kvs Sat Jun 08, 2024 8:24 pm

    Russian military potential increased 40% between 1939 and 1941. Stories of Stalin being a delusional dunce trying to make an "alliance" with Hitler are cold war revisionist excrement.
    The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was an effective delaying tactic. The purges of the 1930s are not so simple as usual with reality outside of the propaganda narratives bubble. There
    was basically a civil war inside the Party between the Trotskyists (Bolshevik purists) and the realists who were represented by Stalin. Gulag stuffing was a the concerted effort of
    the Trotskyists. Much like today all yapping about Putin being some sort of supernatural entity that controls every aspect of Russia, stories about Stalin calling all the shots are
    BS. Stalin had to endure zealot Khruschev (one of the gulag stuffers) who eventually stabbed him in the back and took over. Of course in 1956 Kurschev released the gulag inmates
    to show what a good guy he was. That is when the gulags no longer served their purpose.

    Stalin's biggest mistake was returning the western Ukraine back to the Soviet republic. He should have left it under Poland and let the Poles sort out all the genocidal Bandera-swine.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Jun 08, 2024 8:41 pm

    ALAMO wrote:Firstly, no, the SU was not going to attack Germany back in 1941 - it is nonsense constructed on a wave of anti-Russian propaganda of the 90s. As the guys have already said, the Soviet Union has spent an entire decade opposing Hitler.
    that's the confirmation that they indeed long planned to stab the Germans in the back, made clear by Soviet occupation of Bukovina, next to the Romanian oil fields, & the 6M copies of German-Russian phrasebook printed/issued to the Red Army with questions like "where is the village/town chief/mayor?"- see my last post on GPW tread.
    Secondly, the Soviet Union saved your Murican arses directly, if only considered from a wider perspective.
    from a wider perspective, China saved the USSR 1st, by tying down the IJA in her interior & thus preventing Japanese occupation of the Soviet Far East from which several army divisions were sent to help stop the German advance & stabilize the front in the fall/winter of 1941-42.
    Situation in & around Moldova update:
    https://topcor.ru/48283-kak-moldaviju-vedut-k-novoj-grazhdanskoj-vojne.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Jun 08, 2024 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)

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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jun 08, 2024 11:43 pm


    Would all y'all please take this WW2 thing to WW2 tread?


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    Post  GarryB Sun Jun 09, 2024 6:40 am

    This was the Soviet hope seen in such films as If There is War Tomorrow (not to be confused with Tomorrow was the War), however as David Glantz and others have observed Russia was not ready for any war in 1941, offensive otherwise.

    The new tactics of the Germans meant no western or eastern country was ready for war except the Germans.

    The Soviets got rolled back, but so did the British and French and had the Americans been there they would have folded up like a cheap deck chair too.

    The Germans didn't just master the tank, they mastered the coordination of air power with the power of the armoured vehicle and artillery... ironically the Soviets stopped them and pushed them back largely with their army alone because their Air power was so damaged in the first part of the conflict it didn't really recover till 42.

    The notion that the USSR was plotting to drive an army of bolshevik revolution in 1941 is . . . . Well its a load of neoconservative revisionism and Nazi sympathizer manure.

    The communist narrative is that western countries will have their own revolutions and the Soviets wont need to go in and change the governments for them.

    Stalin built up the Soviet Economy because he knew if he didn't the Germans or the western allies and the Germans were going to invade and destroy them.

    It was self defence presented by the west as aggression as usual.

    that's the confirmation that they indeed long planned to stab the Germans in the back,

    It is only a stab in the back if you are friends. The Germans and Soviets had rather good relations right up until Hitler seized power in 1933 when relations ended and the friendship dissolved. If anything the Germans turned away from the Soviets, and cut all ties.

    from a wider perspective, China saved the USSR 1st, by tying down the IJA in her interior & thus preventing Japanese occupation of the Soviet Far East from which several army divisions were sent to help stop the German advance & stabilize the front in the fall/winter of 1941-42.

    The Soviets saved the Soviets by putting up a better fight in 1939 than they did in 1905 and that led to Japan turning south for resources instead of west.

    The Soviet Union rescued China from Japan.

    Note this post is all WWII stuff because it will be following the other WWII thread stuff to a different thread.

    Please do not comment on the WWII stuff on this thread or make sure your entire post is WWII stuff so it can be moved with the other posts that will now be moved.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jun 09, 2024 6:49 am

    No that's what they said, that the USSR saved us from the Germans.

    Compare the fighting on the eastern front with the allied bombing campaign... the fighting on the front tied up two thirds of the German armed forces and killed a lot of the German soldiers that died during the war, while the allied bombing campaign killed a lot of women and children and old people while pretending to try to hit factories and production centres.

    the government wanted to get into ww2 sooner but the public wasn't for it, America was different back then

    The American people were more human and less keen for war... but America has them trained now... any war they are not involved in ask your senator why...

    Thirdly, what the Roosevelt administration was doing, was a directly pushing Japan into the war, which escalated in the 30s. This was a clear breach of the Monroe Doctrine, showing already that "the rule-based order" means to the US rules that are being figured out by them and applied to the others, not them.

    It took British and American trade embargoes to force Japan to start using their military to secure resources like oil and rubber etc etc.

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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:30 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    ALAMO wrote:Firstly, no, the SU was not going to attack Germany back in 1941 - it is nonsense constructed on a wave of anti-Russian propaganda of the 90s. As the guys have already said, the Soviet Union has spent an entire decade opposing Hitler.
    that's the confirmation that they indeed long planned to stab the Germans in the back, made clear by Soviet occupation of Bukovina, next to the Romanian oil fields, & the 6M copies of German-Russian phrasebook printed/issued to the Red Army with questions like "where is the village/town chief/mayor?"- see my last post on GPW tread.
    Secondly, the Soviet Union saved your Murican arses directly, if only considered from a wider perspective.
    from a wider perspective, China saved the USSR 1st, by tying down the IJA in her interior & thus preventing Japanese occupation of the Soviet Far East from which several army divisions were sent to help stop the German advance & stabilize the front in the fall/winter of 1941-42.
    Situation in & around Moldova update:
    https://topcor.ru/48283-kak-moldaviju-vedut-k-novoj-grazhdanskoj-vojne.html



    Soviet Union Saved China During Second World War.


    http://www.wio.ru/spain/china-a.htm



    China did not save Soviet Union during WWII, it was the other way around.

    Japan would probably never invade Soviet Union, because it had no natural resources it needed. Japan really needed petroleum and rubber, and Asian part of the Soviet Union did not have it, as in not in a way that they could extract it at that time. There is petroleum in Siberia now, but none was extracted back in the 1930's and 1940's.

    The only thing the Asian part of Soviet Union had in abundance was timber, but that was something Japan already had in Manchuria, Korea, and even Japan itself.

    There was no practical point for the Japanese to invade Soviet Union.

    Japan was even permitted to operate some mine(s) in the Soviet (or northern) part of Sahalin until 1944, so Japan was allowed to obtain at least some natural resources from that part of the world without fighting for it.  


    Also, before Barbarossa Hitler told Japanese to not bother with such an invasion, but to instead take Singapore.

    I guess they did as they were told, but there was no practical point for them to invade Soviet Union.


    In 1944 the Japanese even succeeded in linking the Japanese-occupied China with their occupied French Indo-China.





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