Russian Navy: Status and News #5

SeigSoloyvov wrote:.....

Putin cannot afford another Kursk backlash, if he can pin the blame on someone he will.

They had almost as many Russian corpses on that Indian Akula long ago as a result of pure unfiltered stupidity and there was nothing even resembling backlash

Public opinion works differently than what internet would lead you to think

Putin has nothing to do with the Kursk or this sub. He was mostly attacked because he was on vacation when Kursk sunked which is nothing wrong because presidents can have hollidays too, that's only journalists trying to make stories from nothing on him.

An accident is an accident. You can't do anything to make them not happen and can't predict when they will happen.

The fire started in the batterie room. I don't think the crew made any mistake. Batteries are very dangerous. Apple and Samsung batteries use to explode at people's faces very often. My own batterie on my samsung some months ago started to inflate for no reason and almost exploded.

Isos wrote:
An accident is an accident. You can't do anything to make them not happen and can't predict when they will happen.

\

This approach is reason why Russia have much more accidents then other nations.

You could and you should do a lot of things for preventing accidents, and if you do them you will have much less accidents.

Russia lost 152 sailor in submarine tragedies in last 20 years.

That is more, much more then the rest of the world lost.

Isos wrote:Putin has nothing to do with the Kursk or this sub. He was mostly attacked because he was on vacation when Kursk sunked which is nothing wrong because presidents can have hollidays too, that's only journalists trying to make stories from nothing on him.

An accident is an accident. You can't do anything to make them not happen and can't predict when they will happen.

The fire started in the batterie room. I don't think the crew made any mistake. Batteries are very dangerous. Apple and Samsung batteries use to explode at people's faces very often. My own batterie on my samsung some months ago started to inflate for no reason and almost exploded.

Boy when Kursk happened there was a national backlash, Putin assigned a committee to see what happened, the guy was a noob back then he didn't realize the people have to see you involved. He was holiday also that is true, he had to can that and get involved in that fiasco because the russian people were foaming at the mouth. He was getting tons of shit over it not from reports but from ordinary people.

You have a very very specific memory, don't you?

When you are PRESIDENT EVERYTHING has to do with you.

PapaDragon wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:.....

Putin cannot afford another Kursk backlash, if he can pin the blame on someone he will.

They had almost as many Russian corpses on that Indian Akula long ago as a result of pure unfiltered stupidity and there was nothing even resembling backlash

Public opinion works differently than what internet would lead you to think

There was backlash over that it's just Putin blocks the media out of it, he doesn't want that stuff seen.

There was backlash over many of his grand military mistakes, The Russians who got downed by Isreal, All these Sub incidents.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist Papa,

Back then, the officers and admirals were the same as during USSR. They were teached to shut up and say nothing. One of the admirals talked too much and was fired the very next day.

I understand that families want to know what happened but people in general are just wishing for more stories to talk about especially journalists.

Submarines, nuclear ones, are the most secret pieces of equipment in armies. There is nothing wrong to hide to what happened as long as families get answers.


US are no better. They lost also submarines and entire crews just like french too. They also hide many death from iraqi wars. Many associations work against your gov for iraqi wars. Israel also destroy in a non human way one of your ship bombing it for hours and your navy still has hate towards them for that but it was a "mistake". You can't declare war against mistakes.

Isos wrote:Back then, the officers and admirals were the same as during USSR. They were teached to shut up and say nothing. One of the admirals talked too much and was fired the very next day.

I understand that families want to know what happened but people in general are just wishing for more stories to talk about especially journalists.

Submarines, nuclear ones, are the most secret pieces of equipment in armies. There is nothing wrong to hide to what happened as long as families get answers.


US are no better. They lost also submarines and entire crews just like french too. They also hide many death from iraqi wars. Many associations work against your gov for iraqi wars. Israel also destroy in a non human way one of your ship bombing it for hours and your navy still has hate towards them for that but it was a "mistake". You can't declare war against mistakes.

there is nothing wrong with what happened?. Are you joking me? there are tons wrong with what happened.

They lost a set of highly experienced sailors. many people where shit canned after Kursk, Putin had to appease the people.

Now sure it could have very well been a freak accident it happens, but Russia has more Sub "Accidents" than anyone else. You're literally making up excuses for the Government.

If this was a mistake that could have been avoided then no it's not "Fine". It this was due to someone's incompetence then I guess your fine with bodies pilling up.

Oh sure we have had our share of Submarine accidents still in the last 20 years we have lost Six guys in sub accidents, Russia with one of its mistakes doubles our numbers. Russia has lost what over 100 at this point.

So why we are MUCH better when it comes to the loss of life with submarines.

What does a ground war have to do with Subs, Iso? don't bring up subjects that have nothing to do with the point. Which is something you like to do bring up totally irrelevant points to justify your argument.

SeigSoloyvov wrote: ......
Oh sure we have had our share of Submarine accidents still in the last 20 years we have lost Six guys in sub accidents, Russia with one of its mistakes doubles our numbers. Russia has lost what over 100 at this point.

So why we are MUCH better when it comes to the loss of life with submarines. .....

Also USA operates far larger number of submarines than Russia with larger crew complements for much longer periods of time annually

there is nothing wrong with what happened?. Are you joking me? there are tons wrong with what happened.

They lost a set of highly experienced sailors. many people where shit canned after Kursk, Putin had to appease the people.

Now sure it could have very well been a freak accident it happens, but Russia has more Sub "Accidents" than anyone else. You're literally making up excuses for the Government.

If this was a mistake that could have been avoided then no it's not "Fine". It this was due to someone's incompetence then I guess your fine with bodies pilling up.

Oh sure we have had our share of Submarine accidents still in the last 20 years we have lost Six guys in sub accidents, Russia with one of its mistakes doubles our numbers. Russia has lost what over 100 at this point.

So why we are MUCH better when it comes to the loss of life with submarines.

What does a ground war have to do with Subs, Iso? don't bring up subjects that have nothing to do with the point. Which is something you like to do bring up totally irrelevant points to justify your argument.

First I never said there is nothing wrong with accident but it's ok the fact that they don't give details about them because they are secret weapons. Don't make me say what I didn't say.

Second, Kursk happened in 99 when they were bankrupt and suffered of Eltsin era. The sub was build in a destroyed country, crew was probably not trained enough because of lack of money. Shipyards had lost many engineers that left for west. The rescue was a disaster but on purpose because they are clearly hiding something about that.

This accident was a fire that started in batteries room. How do you know someone did something wrong and the batteries didn't just react badly and started a fire ? Your subs use only nuclear energy which is well mastered by your crews. Batteries are more likely to start fires.

Other accident were in shipyards. They have nothing to do with the navy.

Finally, you were the one talking about reaction of people against gov' for soldiers deaths. I just took your country as an exemple that it is the same thing for USA (you also hide the truth) and not specifical to Putin. I don't bring up subjects to justify my arguments I just used the same arguments as you against you.

PapaDragon wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote: ......
Oh sure we have had our share of Submarine accidents still in the last 20 years we have lost Six guys in sub accidents, Russia with one of its mistakes doubles our numbers. Russia has lost what over 100 at this point.

So why we are MUCH better when it comes to the loss of life with submarines. .....

Also USA operates far larger number of submarines than Russia with larger crew complements for much longer periods of time annually

You all just gonna give a total pass to the USA for the Fitzgerald and the McCain huh? Sure they are surface ships, which makes it worse. Let's not forget the Helge Ingstad as well if we're talking the West as a whole.

But of course, "Russia bad! Russia boat bad! Russian dumb!"

x_54_u43 wrote:......
You all just gonna give a total pass to the USA for the Fitzgerald and the McCain huh? Sure they are surface ships, which makes it worse. Let's not forget the Helge Ingstad as well if we're talking the West as a whole.
.....

Folks tend to expect more from people who operate nuclear powered submersibles

McCain had 10 copses and Fitzgerald had 7 while Losharik had 14

So there were slightly more in two separate US disasters than in one Russian, add Akula in the mix and Russia is back in the lead

Also crashes of conventional surface ships will never be anywhere near as bad as even one nuclear submarine, USA will need to have 10 McCains and Fitzgeralds to look as bad as Russia does with just one nuclear fu*kup

Conventional and nuclear are never the same

It would be nice if Russia could get her head out of it's ass for once and get this sorted out: submarines, ships, spacecraft, airplanes, industry, it's always the same thing over and over again and they aren't doing anything to fix it



It's not fate or destiny at work, it's callousness, incompetence and irresponsibility

Which leads us to:

Isos wrote:......
Second, Kursk happened in 99 when they were bankrupt and suffered of Eltsin era. The sub was build in a destroyed country, crew was probably not trained enough because of lack of money. Shipyards had lost many engineers that left for west. The rescue was a disaster but on purpose because they are clearly hiding something about that. ....

Kursk happened because of poorly designed torpedo which wasn't properly inspected upon delivery

There were no complex reasons behind it just people not doing their job or halfassing it

Eh, and US Boeing Max 8 Lost two planes carrying lots of people in a very short time from each other....

The problem is - what can you do? You say Russia isn't doing anything about it but that is furthest from the truth.

Every MiC plant has essentially undergone heavy modernization using now super computers for designing planes, ships, subs, etc. They are all getting brand spanking new auto CNC machinery and QC Lazer devices. For Everytime a disaster hits, they fire or jail the management that may have been involved in the incident. Hell, as example one ran away from Russia after investigation started.

Problem is, majority of the accidents. No, all the accidents happened to devices built during the wild 90's (excluding proton rocket fuckups). All those Yak-130's that have dropped from the skies were built late 90's/early 2000 (early batches before full production much much later).

Only real solution is to scrap everything made prior to 2010 and to build replacements. Which is not a good idea as it leaves Russia with a lot less defense. Hell, you can shut the whole plant down, re open it with new staff and all, but it won't solve a single damn thing.

Inspections? Yes, they inspect it. If inspection passes, then what? Fire the inspectors even though they did their job properly? And what if they really didn't find an issue.

Yes, Kursk was a fuckups because of a torpedo fuckup. That is onus on the maker of the torpedo. The Nerpa incident? That falls on one guy playing around with the fire extinguishing system that caused the freon to go off and suffocate 20 crew members (a lot of them were civillians might I add). So how do you deal with that? Fire everyone onboard the ship after they are dead or were not involved? Train new crew not to touch it (which I guarantee they were already)?

Yeah, Russia has a lot of submarine accidents. Strange thing is, some is either just shit luck (this incident) or stupidity of an individual (Nerpa) or incompetence of a producer of a torpedo (Kursk).

@Iso your sheer level of ignorance amazes me.

Did I ever say it was on purpose or an accident? No. Read what I wrote and comment again.

Some accidents can be avoided with proper care and maintenance sure not everything can be avoided by the fact the Ruskies have a body count of 100 plus sailors from sub accidents alone in the past 20 years while we have had six. Now if you want me to go further back then 20 years ooooo that number skyrockets.

Shows what proper care can do and what it can avoid.

We operate much more subs then Russia and yet we aren't even at 7 percent of their count.

Facts are Facts buddy

Couple of pics of Podmoskovy with Losharik dated 3 July



Edit: bigger versions without watermark
Can't say I see Losharik there

Not long ago a murican sub hit some "underwater mountain". The mountain was sanctioned and the captain promoted.

If some accident like that happens in Amiland you will never know it. There will be a media blackout and the relatives of the deceased will be forced to sign special agreements to keep their mouth shut or loose all benefits. Same happened with the relatives of all the mercenaries killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

There are wild stories going about the submarine incident.
DEBKA file , which is a mix between Conspirancy theories site and sometimes
report some facts here or there.. Is claiming that there was a Submarine battle
between Russia and US navy in Alaska coast.. And one American sub intercept
the Russian sub ,causing the casualties and losses ,but another Russian sub escorting
it , hit back and sunk the American Submarine.. The Spy submarine of Russia that was
hit managed to return to the base but not without some major damages and casualties..
those 14 sailors killed apparently ,died after being intercepted by an AMerican sub..

So Russia got 14 killed of fires. possibly later more and US lost one entire submarine
and its crew.. yes is looks like taken from a movie.. But this is what DEBKA news
is claiming..

REPORT: AMERICAN SUBMARINE TORPEDOED AND SUNK OFF ALASKA COAST

https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/report-american-submarine-torpedoed-and-sunk-off-alaska-coast

In a different world ,such reports i will have called fake news.. but Knowing how bad are relations between US and Russia.. I can't completely 100% say things like that don't happen. US and Russia have traded blows in Syria... small fights there between them did happened. and one of many examples ,that exist.. is the time that Russia took the decision
to liberate Easter Ghouta ,and NATO was in total panic , and in total hostilities mode vs Russia.. that did another Cruise missile attack the same week ,and UK began a major blunder operation ,to attempt to totally isolate Russia from Europe , since accused Putin of a chemical attack in their nation.. But during Russia bombing of eastern Ghouta.. to liberate it.. Chinese military media , in chinese language ,was claiming 1500 American and British elite forces were killed by Russia in Damascus.. I did reported about that..
And surprise surprise.. a week later.. Sputnik about a Lebanese media report about British Military being captured by Syrian army in Damascus in the liberation of eastern Ghouta..

So probably the submarine fight did not happened.. but it will not be completely impossible if indeed US and Russia traded blows with their navy and this incident ,Russian casualties are the only reported consequences.. and Americans just keep silence about a lot.

Take off your Tin Foil hat.

I think much more likely than a sub battle would be that they were messing with a SOSUS cable/device & got an electrical feedback burst/short-circuit from it or even it had an explosive anti-tamper that caused shock damage to the sub.

But sadly very plausible to be a wiring short-circuit as announced.

Few years ago there was a documentary on german TV about the new german sub class. The sub hadn´t left the Harbor as the first short-cirucit in one of the switchboards happened and a small fire broke out.

GarryB wrote:....

Why would anyone wear a tin foil hat when everything America and the west says is true... they never lie.

I was bombed by Americans for 3 months ​straight and I will still take America's word over Vann's nutjob rants any of the week

Now when did I ever say everything the US says is true?. But if you are insane enough to think an US Submarine was sunk by the Russians and it just is brushed under the rug.

That is some next level, go seek help stuff there.