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SeigSoloyvov
Singular_Transform
KomissarBojanchev
flamming_python
AlfaT8
Isos
GunshipDemocracy
SLB
Tingsay
T-47
hoom
Big_Gazza
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miketheterrible
Austin
19 posters

    Briz-class corvette

    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8


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    Post  AlfaT8 Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:52 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:meanwhile the frigate and destroyer program's induction rates are running at turtle-fast pace lol1

    Sir, that is an insult to us Turtles.

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    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible


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    Post  miketheterrible Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:31 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Admiral grigorovich is actually within reason of 3 years. I don't know why they just don't build more of those.

    Agreed.

    If you ask me, they should have concentrated on them only. Just build them Grigorovich boats, for all major fleets, in big numbers. The Gorshkov seems too big and too complicated for Russia, they don't seem to be able to get the missiles right anyway.

    I wouldn't say complicated or anything. Brand new tech in it.  I would say having more grigorovich and gradually update them by both design and equipment through iterations.

    Missile test was completed on Gorshkov btw, so your info is rather outdated on it.  It was the highlight of the problem and it was resolved a while back. Now testing still commence for everything else.  It was rough and will be so till they start streamlining production of subcomponents. Redut is working though.

    http://foto-i-mir.ru/22350-gorshkov-161124/

    No one here understands the amount of systems and subcomponents Russia has to replace that Ukraine made. Engines is biggest one and Russia is still testing out their new engines. What would have allowed Gorshkov to be completed has now extended its deadline. Even Grigoroviches are being pushed back because of Ukrainian components, like - engines. I think most of you figured Russia made most of its stuff inside. It didn't. Instead it had to collect components from all over former soviet union in order to make a lot of their ships. Now that changes but it isn't a 1 or 2 year process.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:58 am

    Engine testing should be done before the middle of 2018 with serial production to follow. This is very plausible and
    consistent with various statements. So by the middle of 2018, the whole Ukrainian supply issue will be absolute
    history.
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:22 am

    kvs wrote:Engine testing should be done before the middle of 2018 with serial production to follow.   This is very plausible and
    consistent with various statements.    So by the middle of 2018, the whole Ukrainian supply issue will be absolute
    history.  

    I would honestly bet money that there will be further delays after that. Neutral
    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:01 am

    With the fiasco the lack of Ukrainian components is causing, i'm wondering why doesn't russia simply invade Ukraine and partition it, or at least stage a counter color revolution. The western leaders are convinced Russia has invaded Ukraine, so whats the point not to? There won't be any worse repercussions.

    Even if the disruption of the engine supply caused more damage to the Ukrainian economy, it hasn't helped destabilize the junta and with raw oppression, the galician scum aren't leaving kiev soon.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:45 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:With the fiasco the lack of Ukrainian components is causing, i'm wondering why doesn't russia simply invade Ukraine and partition it, or at least stage a counter color revolution. The western leaders are convinced Russia has invaded Ukraine, so whats the point not to? There won't be any worse repercussions.

    Even if the disruption of the engine supply caused more damage to the Ukrainian economy, it hasn't helped destabilize the junta and with raw oppression, the galician scum aren't leaving kiev soon.

    Invading a poor country to have spare parts for military hardware ...
    Imagine the situation of russian eco if they add some 10 million poor people to their country that they need to feed and give them a job. The situation now is eeally good for Russia as everyone knoxs what obama did to ukraine, the gov is total bs, nato doesn t give a shit about them. Once ukrainian people get it they will implore russia ro help them ...
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:55 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:With the fiasco the lack of Ukrainian components is causing, i'm wondering why doesn't russia simply invade Ukraine and partition it, or at least stage a counter color revolution. The western leaders are convinced Russia has invaded Ukraine, so whats the point not to? There won't be any worse repercussions.

    Even if the disruption of the engine supply caused more damage to the Ukrainian economy, it hasn't helped destabilize the junta and with raw oppression, the galician scum aren't leaving kiev soon.

    Why would Russia want the rats nest that is ukraine? they aren't exactly the richest country in the world and that would be a huge financial burden to take on for them. Western Ukrainians also hate Russia the eastern side is russian friendly.

    Conquering them really isn't worth it at all for Russia. Unless Putin was solely interested in just having the land.

    Ukraine offers them nothing...I mean maybe the shipyard but that alone doesn't justify taking ukraine on your wallet.
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    hoom


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    Post  hoom Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:26 pm

    Also, what's this???
    Trimaran Stealth Corvette?
    Rusich 1 from Zelenodolsk Design Bureau.
    Design puts the engines & fuel in the wings/outer hulls, intended to mostly operate with just the propulsion pods & main hull in the water, outer hulls skimming above.
    Props on front of the pods operate in completely clean water -> more efficient.

    Its an older concept displayed in 2015, officially abandoned sadly  cry
    They did build a 12m proof-of-concept which was allegedly successful.

    Decent length article here (in Russian) https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201507210819-josl.htm

    More pics
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    I'm a big fan of the idea & would love to see it in action.
    This CGI is cleaner & scales back the armament to something more reasonable for a 1500-2000ton ship.
    Briz-class corvette - Page 4 1GyQI%5B1%5D
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:40 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    kvs wrote:Engine testing should be done before the middle of 2018 with serial production to follow.   This is very plausible and
    consistent with various statements.    So by the middle of 2018, the whole Ukrainian supply issue will be absolute
    history.  

    I would honestly bet money that there will be further delays after that. Neutral

    Then do it.

    Done

    Briz-class corvette - Page 4 Scarface
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:09 am

    which is still pathetic for a 500 ton ship.

    Without context how can you possibly comment?

    If they have a contract then there will be time stipulations and penalties.

    There is no point in building a boat in 6 months if your shipyard then has to wait 2 and a half years for the next contract.

    Also lets be serious.... this little boat can kill terrorist bases 2,500km away with land attack cruise missiles... which NATO boat can do the same?

    If there is nothing in the west that can do the same except a destroyer or cruiser sized vessel then I would expect construction to take a little longer than comparable vessels in the west.


    Russia has problems with shipbuilding and that is quite proven with all the delays and long ass build times they have. I do not need to argue this with you the Russian ship building industry has a whole proves this for me.

    Give us a full list of all the ships the Russian Navy wants and is willing to fully fund and all the Russian Shipyards... their capacity and actual performance and their future schedule for the next 15 years.

    Then we can discuss their performance to make new ships.

    Can we also discuss how these new corvettes seem to have vastly better performance than most of NATOs Destroyers let alone their cruisers... how many non US cruisers are there in NATO? How many non US vessels in NATO can launch 2,500km range land attack cruise missiles?

    "FULL DISPLACEMENT" do you KNOW what that means it means thats how much it weighs one all the supplies and everything else has been loaded INTO the ship.

    Also I wasn't talking about those ships, Yantar plus Pelia are the only two capable shipyards in Russia all the others are shit. They delay after delay and they take so long to build something they shouldn't

    Actually especially for smaller vessels the difference between normal and max weight is not usually that big... it is not like an aircraft where an aircraft wing pylon might have something very light like an AAM or something very heavy like a large fuel tank... the UKSK launch tubes would be loaded in normal weight, as would all the other missile tubes and the contents of those missile tubes doesn't change at all between operational weight and max weight.


    My concern is what to do about critical operating spares for Gorshkov and Kasanatov? Clearly turbine spares cannot be purchased from Zorya-Mashproekt, but what about the rest of the drivetrain? What about electrical & instrumentation & control systems? Is the turbine control cabinet based on Ukropi-supply electronic components? Can spares be procured, or should Russia plan on a complete control system replacement? What about eventual replacement of the Ukropi turbine? Hopefully the major interfaces and overall form factors of the domestic machinery have been specified to be compatible and will allow for a relatively inexpensive changeout?

    The Ukrainian components were not from Star Trek... they were mostly Soviet era materials and systems, so Russia should not have huge problems not just substituting these components but upgrading them to a much higher level with domestically produced parts.

    It will certainly take time, but there is no hurry at the moment... Russia simply does not need a powerful navy.... having a powerful navy is something they can defer until their economy is running smoothly again and they can trade with most of the rest of the world as partners.

    Not to mention that over a dozen of AB destroyers (or better cruisers) were inducted by the USN in the same time frame.

    You mean ones that can't see cargo ships in the dark... yeah, they need lots of those.

    With the fiasco the lack of Ukrainian components is causing, i'm wondering why doesn't russia simply invade Ukraine and partition it, or at least stage a counter color revolution. The western leaders are convinced Russia has invaded Ukraine, so whats the point not to? There won't be any worse repercussions.

    Even if the disruption of the engine supply caused more damage to the Ukrainian economy, it hasn't helped destabilize the junta and with raw oppression, the galician scum aren't leaving kiev soon.

    A better question to ask is why Russia needs to be producing ships like the US and China combined... WTF would they do with all these new ships?

    Just because a few ass hats here are whining like little girls about the current production rate is no reason to do anything.

    I am sure all those US cruisers are great for defending freedom around the world... they were certainly pivotal in separating the Serbs from Kosovo and did nothing to protect the Arabs from ISIS until the Russians started kicking arse in Syria.

    the contribution of lots of ships to the US military budget is hard to justify, but i guess it will lead to the collapse a bit quicker.... so bring it on.

    Trimaran Stealth Corvette?

    Just using your eyes will tell you it is not a stealth anything.

    The Russian navy has no shortage of ships, what it has is a shortage of brand new ships, but what it also has is a lack of a need for a huge number of new ships.

    the support vessels are being built... which is priority number one. In the back ground other systems and upgrades are going into effect... and Saturn producing replacement engines and propulsion systems is just step one.... they also need to expand production to produce the new systems as well as all the stuff they were producing before.

    I was coming to this forum to tell you all to behave but I pretty much think the verbal abuse is fully justified... though Mike please tone it down, however I can see why you are calling idiots idiots lowering yourself to their level just makes you look bad. Smile
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:41 am

    6 months is that a joke whoever said 6 months? A year is how long it should take to complete ships like Buyan that gives the budget time to refresh, you are trying to deflect right here by saying 6 months and you are pulling this number out of thin air to try and prove your silly point. When no one ever said six months.

    You know Garry you have this bad habit of doing that creating false and stupid points to make yourself look right and I get tired of seeing you do this again and again and again. It really doesn't make me want to take you seriously if your going to do that.

    3 years is pathetic for a ship like buyan-M and there is no excuse for that long and if you are honestly going to defend this then it shows your just fanboying trying to defend. If this was a frigate sure that would be a reasonable amount of time.

    Size means nothing here corvettes are cheap so Russia can build many of them. Plenty of NATO ships can kill bases from that far away, it doesn't matter the size what matters is the number of armament and Buyan-M doesn't have enough missiles to pose a threat to a ship larger then it. Kaliber is a good missile sure but it is no wonder missile.

    Oh wait I forgot russian missiles are magic and can make ships sink just by being near it!.


    I told you every shipyard other then the ones I named and lets see all their corvettes (Well pelia managed to get a karakut launched within two years....thats still not great but hey it's their first warship in how long so I'll give them credit there), their frigate minus the ones built for the BSF (Yantar actually knows how to make stuff). How many modernized ships have they gotten large hull and they started some of those over 5 years ago?. Their landing ships.

    Plus all the other crap they are building.

    US can build ships of same tonnage MUCH faster, china, Japan, Korea.... I could go on and on and on sorry russia does have a piss poor ship building industry right now maybe in the future that will change but for now that is the case.



    AB destroyers cannot see in the dark now......dude for a guy who just called people idiots that comment alone is by far some of the dumbest shit I have ever seen said here. You clearly know shit about the US Navy. This is why I hate fanboys they cannot be objective etc be critical of something they like but can make up what is clear lies.

    Those AB Destroyers will wreck whatever surface ship russia sends after them minus a upgraded Kirov. You are beyond delusional if you think the Russian navy poses any remote threat to the US navy in open waters. Cause they really don't.

    I like the Russian navy for what it is, that doesn't mean I pretend it's something it ain't.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:32 pm

    They don't want too many corvettes. They are also keeping money for bigger ships and for upgrading facilities .. new port in black sea, upgrading tartous, upgrading shipyards ... It doesn t matter that they are cheap corvettes, if you buy lot of them it will cost lot.

    Most of US fanboys think that the theorical calculs they do with the anti air capabilities of the aegis will work aagainst true anti ship missiles ... the fact is that it won't. Remember when there were two missiles shot at them in Yemen ? Their anti air missiles failed and needed to use EW (or vis versa ?) While lunching 2 missiles at each subsonic target. Imagine now a more capable supetsonic missile that can home on jam and use evasive actions with chaffs ???  No matter if it is a corvettes or a destroyer who lunch the oniks, the missile is the same. And Russia hs enough assests to know where american ships are, at least near its homeland. They don't care about open ocean fights. They just need a navy capable of defending the borders for now and for the near future.

    Against your carrier, kilo subs are enough. They can produce esily 4 of them in one year if they want. Once they destroy them your navy is done. You harpoons are easy targets for modern defences and jammers while russian missile will be hard target for your egis. And if the fight occurs near russia you will face sukhois armed with kh31/35 with EW equipement.

    Its been more than 70 years that soviet and russian ships and subs follow your carriers and ships and know exactly what to do if they face them.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:37 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Isos wrote:Against your carrier, kilo subs are enough.

    Hypothetical.

    Day 0. Regime change/Maidan in Venezuela. A USN task force comprising of one CV and two LPHs, plus half a dozen escorts (not of the Colombian type, rather ABs and Ticos) is sailing and operating just outside Venezuelan waters. Helos are flying off of them carriers supporting the regime change.

    .........

    To his defense he was talking about operations near Russia and not about open ocean

    Venezuela is not near Russia and definitely has open ocean in the equation
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:41 am

    T-47 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Newer models seem to be rather fine. Earlier models not so much, going by Franco said. Predominantly, things didn't start to fix in production of Yak-130 till around 2011, and that was before Ukraine debacle. Really, Yak-130 is great, except for fact that it now requires total import substitution for it. They should have expected this at least since it was obvious even then how West treated Russia then, and how problematic Ukraine was then too (2004 should have been a wake up call for many in Russia, but I guess they needed a rehash 10 years later to get that cold water in the face).

    Wrong thread mikey

    fat fingers on a "smartphone".

    Isos wrote:They don't want too many corvettes. They are also keeping money for bigger ships and for upgrading facilities .. new port in black sea, upgrading tartous, upgrading shipyards ... It doesn t matter that they are cheap corvettes, if you buy lot of them it will cost lot.

    Most of US fanboys think that the theorical calculs they do with the anti air capabilities of the aegis will work aagainst true anti ship missiles ... the fact is that it won't. Remember when there were two missiles shot at them in Yemen ? Their anti air missiles failed and needed to use EW (or vis versa ?) While lunching 2 missiles at each subsonic target. Imagine now a more capable supetsonic missile that can home on jam and use evasive actions with chaffs ???  No matter if it is a corvettes or a destroyer who lunch the oniks, the missile is the same. And Russia hs enough assests to know where american ships are, at least near its homeland. They don't care about open ocean fights. They just need a navy capable of defending the borders for now and for the near future.

    Against your carrier, kilo subs are enough. They can produce esily 4 of them in one year if they want. Once they destroy them your navy is done. You harpoons are easy targets for modern defences and jammers while russian missile will be hard target for your egis. And if the fight occurs near russia you will face sukhois armed with kh31/35 with EW equipement.

    Its been more than 70 years that soviet and russian ships and subs follow your carriers and ships and know exactly what to do if they face them.

    Most of these American fanboys also forget that their subsonic harpoon missiles are just that, subsonic. Less of a threat than a supersonic. But hey, at least they got lots of them on a ship so yeah, they would eventually sink a Russian ship with a salvo attack. But then, Russian antiship supersonic missiles would strike too.

    But whatever, still waiting on proof with link regarding the 500t light displacement on the Buyan-M claim.
    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:36 am

    GarryB wrote:
    which is still pathetic for a 500 ton ship.

    Without context how can you possibly comment?

    If they have a contract then there will be time stipulations and penalties.

    There is no point in building a boat in 6 months if your shipyard then has to wait 2 and a half years for the next contract.

    Also lets be serious.... this little boat can kill terrorist bases 2,500km away with land attack cruise missiles... which NATO boat can do the same?

    If there is nothing in the west that can do the same except a destroyer or cruiser sized vessel then I would expect construction to take a little longer than comparable vessels in the west.


    Russia has problems with shipbuilding and that is quite proven with all the delays and long ass build times they have. I do not need to argue this with you the Russian ship building industry has a whole proves this for me.

    Give us a full list of all the ships the Russian Navy wants and is willing to fully fund and all the Russian Shipyards... their capacity and actual performance and their future schedule for the next 15 years.

    Then we can discuss their performance to make new ships.

    Can we also discuss how these new corvettes seem to have vastly better performance than most of NATOs Destroyers let alone their cruisers... how many non US cruisers are there in NATO? How many non US vessels in NATO can launch 2,500km range land attack cruise missiles?

    "FULL DISPLACEMENT" do you KNOW what that means it means thats how much it weighs one all the supplies and everything else has been loaded INTO the ship.

    Also I wasn't talking about those ships, Yantar plus Pelia are the only two capable shipyards in Russia all the others are shit. They delay after delay and they take so long to build something they shouldn't

    Actually especially for smaller vessels the difference between normal and max weight is not usually that big... it is not like an aircraft where an aircraft wing pylon might have something very light like an AAM or something very heavy like a large fuel tank... the UKSK launch tubes would be loaded in normal weight, as would all the other missile tubes and the contents of those missile tubes doesn't change at all between operational weight and max weight.


    My concern is what to do about critical operating spares for Gorshkov and Kasanatov? Clearly turbine spares cannot be purchased from Zorya-Mashproekt, but what about the rest of the drivetrain? What about electrical & instrumentation & control systems? Is the turbine control cabinet based on Ukropi-supply electronic components? Can spares be procured, or should Russia plan on a complete control system replacement? What about eventual replacement of the Ukropi turbine? Hopefully the major interfaces and overall form factors of the domestic machinery have been specified to be compatible and will allow for a relatively inexpensive changeout?

    The Ukrainian components were not from Star Trek... they were mostly Soviet era materials and systems, so Russia should not have huge problems not just substituting these components but upgrading them to a much higher level with domestically produced parts.

    It will certainly take time, but there is no hurry at the moment... Russia simply does not need a powerful navy.... having a powerful navy is something they can defer until their economy is running smoothly again and they can trade with most of the rest of the world as partners.

    Not to mention that over a dozen of AB destroyers (or better cruisers) were inducted by the USN in the same time frame.

    You mean ones that can't see cargo ships in the dark... yeah, they need lots of those.

    With the fiasco the lack of Ukrainian components is causing, i'm wondering why doesn't russia simply invade Ukraine and partition it, or at least stage a counter color revolution. The western leaders are convinced Russia has invaded Ukraine, so whats the point not to? There won't be any worse repercussions.

    Even if the disruption of the engine supply caused more damage to the Ukrainian economy, it hasn't helped destabilize the junta and with raw oppression, the galician scum aren't leaving kiev soon.

    A better question to ask is why Russia needs to be producing ships like the US and China combined... WTF would they do with all these new ships?

    Just because a few ass hats here are whining like little girls about the current production rate is no reason to do anything.

    I am sure all those US cruisers are great for defending freedom around the world... they were certainly pivotal in separating the Serbs from Kosovo and did nothing to protect the Arabs from ISIS until the Russians started kicking arse in Syria.

    the contribution of lots of ships to the US military budget is hard to justify, but i guess it will lead to the collapse a bit quicker.... so bring it on.

    Trimaran Stealth Corvette?

    Just using your eyes will tell you it is not a stealth anything.

    The Russian navy has no shortage of ships, what it has is a shortage of brand new ships, but what it also has is a lack of a need for a huge number of new ships.

    the support vessels are being built... which is priority number one. In the back ground other systems and upgrades are going into effect... and Saturn producing replacement engines and propulsion systems is just step one.... they also need to expand production to produce the new systems as well as all the stuff they were producing before.

    I was coming to this forum to tell you all to behave but I pretty much think the verbal abuse is fully justified... though Mike please tone it down, however I can see why you are calling idiots idiots lowering yourself to their level just makes you look bad. Smile

    Garry your excuses are getting old and your counterarguments are red herring.

    Firstly, this fact that russia doesn't need to rely on its navy as much as the west doesn't mean ridiculous build times are acceptable. Like it or not, Russia NEEDS new ships ASAP because it needs to replace  a massive amount of aging ones.

    Secondly, the faster these ships are built, the more of the docks are free to take in new projects and build new ships for export.

    Germany also doesn't need a large navy and they're not in a hurry, yet they don't take 7-12 FUCKIN YEARS to build and test new frigates and naval technology. It wouldn't take as long even if they had to build new engines for them from scratch.

    The excuse that once the production problems with the first  ship are sorted out the rest of the class will be built much faster is a crock of BS. There are 6 buyans already, and all of them have pathetic build times.

    It doesn't matter how uber powerful Russian naval weapons are, as long as they aren't on combat ships they don't mean shit, so don't use that as your counterargument.

    garry wrote:Also lets be serious.... this little boat can kill terrorist bases 2,500km away with land attack cruise missiles... which NATO boat can do the same?
    A little 500t boat that takes as long to build as a 4000ton Indian/western/chinese frigate. Which NATO little boat has the same build time? Also, there are too few of these little boats because Zelenodolsk builds as fast as a brigade of drunk gypsy construction workers.

    BTW aren't the 9M96, Shtil, and UKSK mounts already matured enough to reduce test and build time of Russian military ships?


    Last edited by KomissarBojanchev on Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total
    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:41 am

    Is it just me or is anyone else here having cautious optimism towards Amur? I have the feeling that they're getting fed up on being the retarded laughingstock sideshow of Russian military shipyards and are accelerating their build speed towards normal levels. The same can't be said for the retards at Zelenodolsk, Zvezdochka, and Severnaya Verf.
    GarryB
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    Briz-class corvette - Page 4 Empty New russian corvette design

    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:09 am

    6 months is that a joke whoever said 6 months? A year is how long it should take to complete ships like Buyan that gives the budget time to refresh, you are trying to deflect right here by saying 6 months and you are pulling this number out of thin air to try and prove your silly point. When no one ever said six months.

    I said a boat.... I didn't say what sort of boat... it could be a row boat.

    It is giving an example to make a point.

    Discussion... you know.... as opposed to argument where you attack the person by saying their points are silly without refuting them.

    You know Garry you have this bad habit of doing that creating false and stupid points to make yourself look right and I get tired of seeing you do this again and again and again. It really doesn't make me want to take you seriously if your going to do that.

    I get really tired of people complaining that the Russians don't know how to build ships any more because they take more time than those people expect... I suppose at least you are not like Van and think it is all Putins fault.... Smile

    3 years is pathetic for a ship like buyan-M and there is no excuse for that long and if you are honestly going to defend this then it shows your just fanboying trying to defend. If this was a frigate sure that would be a reasonable amount of time.

    This is a small ship with a battle management system fitted to all new Russian vessels, with all new systems and weapons... why the fuck do you think they can get that done in a year?

    If these were just simple corvettes like the Soviets used to have with a big anti ship missile and a 30mm gatling then fine it would take a year, but these vessels are fully multirole with anti ship, land attack, and anti sub capabilities.... well don't take my word for it.... read this:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/09/26/packing-punch-buyan-m-corvettes-built-russian-navy.html

    In particular these points:

    With a relatively small size, the ship stands out for its capability to strike at targets deep into enemy territory. It was instrumental in launching the first Kalibr SS-N-30A cruise missiles  in October 7, 2015 from the Caspian Sea to strike terrorist targets in Syria.

    The capability of relatively small ships, such as Buyan-M corvettes, to fire the weapon was a demonstration of distributed lethality with weapons and sensors spread out to multiple units instead of being concentrated on a few large platforms.

    The design incorporates stealth features to reduce the radar cross section. The flexible open architecture of the ships allows for modifications according to the future requirements. The corvette features better sea-keeping capabilities for navigation in stormy conditions. It can use weapons in conditions of sea state 4.

    With the displacement of less than 1,000 tons the Buyan-M has the land targets strike capability comparable to the US Arleigh Buke class destroyer with the displacement of 6900 tons. The Kalibr missile is a weapon to change the calculus of the reach and effectiveness of smaller naval combatants. The use of Kalibr during the Syrian conflict demonstrated that today Russia is second to none when it comes to long-range precision strike capability.

    The ship has an important advantage to make it unique. Its displacement allows it to effectively operate in rivers. The Volga and the tributaries form the biggest riverine system in Europe connected to the Caspian Sea. Armed with the weapons not covered by the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, the relatively cheap corvette can be easily redeployed using Russia’s inland waterways. The Buyan class corvettes based in the Caspian Sea can use the riverine ways to operate in different areas.

    A ship of this class can go to Moscow, «the port of five seas», through the Moscow Canal and then move to the Black Sea, the Caspian Sea, the White Sea, the Sea of Azov and the Baltic. The corvette can launch cruise missiles from a vast expanse of territory. The Buyan-M ship with long range missiles on board does not violate the Intermediate Forces Treaty (INF), which bans only ground-based intermediate range missiles. The NATO ballistic missile defense sites in Romania and Poland are within the range of its cruise missiles.

    The corvette is highly mobile and difficult to track. According to a US naval intelligence report, «The new technologically advanced Russian Navy, increasingly armed with the Kalibr family of weapons, will be able to more capably defend the maritime approaches to the Russian Federation and exert significant influence in adjacent seas».

    The Buyan-M is a unique example of the Russian Navy’s ability to make general purpose naval forces perform the function of non-nuclear deterrence against potential enemies. The corvette is a perfect tool to carry out peacetime missions, including the fight against terrorism in local and low-intensity conflicts. The Syrian campaign clearly showed the need for such ships.

    The operational range of the missiles installed on the Buyan-M ships homeported in the Caspian and Black seas covers the entire Caucasus and large parts of Central Asia and the Middle East - the areas where threats to Russia’s national security are most likely to emerge, especially from international terrorist organizations. The ship is a good example of effective deterrence against contemporary threats.

    New technology and modular design means lots of complicated interactions that needed to be tested.

    They are making this boat stealthy which means precision manufacturing.... I am sure you are aware that a B-2 is built to sub mm tollerances and anything less would make stealth ineffective... but Russia should be able to pump out cheap simple corvettes like sausages like they used to.

    WAKE UP.

    Size means nothing here corvettes are cheap so Russia can build many of them. Plenty of NATO ships can kill bases from that far away, it doesn't matter the size what matters is the number of armament and Buyan-M doesn't have enough missiles to pose a threat to a ship larger then it. Kaliber is a good missile sure but it is no wonder missile.

    As noted in the article above those missiles can directly target NATO land positions with nuclear armed warheads.

    Oh wait I forgot russian missiles are magic and can make ships sink just by being near it!.

    No they disguise themselves as cargo ships and just run into US ships...

    US can build ships of same tonnage MUCH faster, china, Japan, Korea....

    You have said yourself an icebreaker is not the same as an aircraft carrier.... well I would suggest that a Buyan-M is about as similar to the same tonnage ships the US is mass producing... but no, I am already dismissed as a non thinking fan boy.


    AB destroyers cannot see in the dark now......dude for a guy who just called people idiots that comment alone is by far some of the dumbest shit I have ever seen said here. You clearly know shit about the US Navy. This is why I hate fanboys they cannot be objective etc be critical of something they like but can make up what is clear lies.

    So a few delays in production of small vessels in a few Russian ship yards and the whole Russian ship building infrastructure is shot, but US supermen.... also known as Navy captains don't post lookouts in busy ship lanes and two smash into civilian ships over a very short period and I cannot say a fucking word about the US navy.

    Those AB Destroyers will wreck whatever surface ship russia sends after them minus a upgraded Kirov. You are beyond delusional if you think the Russian navy poses any remote threat to the US navy in open waters. Cause they really don't.

    You talk about magic Russian anti ship missiles as a put down... love that you are such a hypocrite... sure.. the US navy has an excellent record for Killing.... I mean Iranian airbuses get attacked by US warships illegally in Iranian waters, and US Navy sub captains love sinking Japanese fishing boats when surfacing to show off to visitors on board, but against real enemies their record is rather non existent.

    Of course a couple of F-14s shooting down some Su-22 light bombers when one of them drops a drop tank shows their real character... trigger happy cowards I believe is the correct term.

    The sad thing is you seem to think I want Russia to fight the US and be able to beat them... I am glad the Russians are not wasting that sort of money and the US is...

    Hilary Clinton is going to beat Trump to become president of the USA, Russia wont stand up to the US terrorists in Syria and Assad will fall, Russia wont stop NATO from taking Sevastopol, US Carriers are safe from everything, and your opinion about the Russian military and their ability to make ships is important to me.

    My list of things that the western experts got wrong... not a complete list obviously...

    They don't want too many corvettes. They are also keeping money for bigger ships and for upgrading facilities .. new port in black sea, upgrading tartous, upgrading shipyards ... It doesn t matter that they are cheap corvettes, if you buy lot of them it will cost lot.

    these are not just little torpedo boats or missile boats... these vessels are full of state of the art electronics and comms systems... floating 50 up the various rivers of Russia and arm them with land attack nuclear armed 3-5,000km range cruise missiles and you totally bypass the INF treaty...

    Most of US fanboys think that the theorical calculs they do with the anti air capabilities of the aegis will work aagainst true anti ship missiles ... the fact is that it won't.

    Talk of magic anti ship missiles... the ABs are magic.... they are at the same time filled with land attack cruise missiles AND SAMs to both attack and defend themselves.... just like their carrier groups at the same time see all threats but are totally silent and emission free and hard to find...

    Firstly, this fact that russia doesn't need to rely on its navy as much as the west doesn't mean ridiculous build times are acceptable. Like it or not, Russia NEEDS new ships ASAP because it needs to replace  a massive amount of aging ones.

    Based on what?

    First you say they don't need a navy and then you say it is critical they build lots of ships right now.

    The Soviet navy was much bigger than the Russian navy needs to be... there are plenty of vessels they don't need that they have... there is no rush for an all new fleet.

    Secondly, the faster these ships are built, the more of the docks are free to take in new projects and build new ships for export.

    They seem to be exporting vessels just fine... there is no huge unsatisfied market right now.

    Germany also doesn't need a large navy and they're not in a hurry, yet they don't take 7-12 FUCKIN YEARS to build and test new frigates and naval technology. It wouldn't take as long even if they had to build new engines for them from scratch.

    Germany couldn't send three corvettes to the Med and hit 20 odd targets with precision guided cruise missiles... even her subs couldn't do that.

    The excuse that once the production problems with the first  ship are sorted out the rest of the class will be built much faster is a crock of BS. There are 6 buyans already, and all of them have pathetic build times.

    Funny... I thought there was an M in front of the most recent designs... are they really all identical and all from the same shipyard?

    Looking at the wiki page...

    the first Buyan was the Astrakhan Laid down 30th Jan 2004 launched October 2005 and commissioned the following year on the first of september 2006.

    That is not bad for the first in a series. Clearly the later delays have nothing to do with actually building the ship because they had already built one.

    It doesn't matter how uber powerful Russian naval weapons are, as long as they aren't on combat ships they don't mean shit, so don't use that as your counterargument.

    NATO can pump out all the little cheap gunboats it likes they are inconsequential... Russia does not need any of those.

    Russia could make shit little boats with Soviet era weapons and electronics and pump out dozens a year but what the fuck would be the point... ego? to please internet warriors like you who want to brag about how many new ships the Russians are making?

    I am glad they are making them more capable than NATO Frigates... sell them to some African countries and watch the once mighty colonial european powers scatter like leaves...

    BTW aren't the 9M96, Shtil, and UKSK mounts already matured enough to reduce test and build time of Russian military ships?

    Yeah, they are all the same... they just put M in front of every ship class name after they make a few to make it look like they are improving the design based on production and operational testing... smoke and mirrors.


    Considering how odd these shipyards are working, i can't help but feel that there may be some internal struggles happening between these yards and the MoD, like what happened with Sergei Korolev, Vladimir Chelomey and Valentin Glushko during the Soviet moon mission.

    Don't be silly.... they have obviously forgotten how to make ships...

    The Russians are inept at this so it shouldn't be an example at all.

    Love the irony... the Russians are no good at subverting democracy and imposing regime change on other soverign countries... the US are the experts on violating all democratic and peaceful norms... have to agree... but Russia will win because they will send Russian hackers....[/quote]
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