Briz-class corvette

miketheterrible wrote:He is lying about the Buyan claim:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyan-class_corvette

Average is about 3 years.

which is still pathetic for a 500 ton ship.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:He is lying about the Buyan claim:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyan-class_corvette

Average is about 3 years.

which is still pathetic for a 500 ton ship.

Actually, 1,000 Ton since all new ones have be the newer model (Buyan-M. You thinking of Buyan).  But nice try retard.  Lie to us more about your position in Syria instead of bullshitting your knowledge here.

BTW, this small ship sure packs a punch.  Something that corvettes in most western countries cannot do.  But hey, tell me more.

miketheterrible wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:He is lying about the Buyan claim:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyan-class_corvette

Average is about 3 years.

which is still pathetic for a 500 ton ship.

Actually, 1,000 Ton since all new ones have be the newer model (Buyan-M.  You thinking of Buyan).  But nice try retard.  Lie to us more about your position in Syria instead of bullshitting your knowledge here.

BTW, this small ship sure packs a punch.  Something that corvettes in most western countries cannot do.  But hey, tell me more.

it's 1k tons when they load all the ammo and what not genius without all that shit it's about 500 (Full load verse standard load).....What the ship can do doesn't justify the build time. You can fangasm all you want over this really I don't care. It just shows your ass is ignorant and will fanboy over the Russian navy and ignore their clear issues.

I find it funny really.

Even if it was 1k in standard it's still pathetic three years for a 1k ton ship.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:He is lying about the Buyan claim:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyan-class_corvette

Average is about 3 years.

which is still pathetic for a 500 ton ship.

Actually, 1,000 Ton since all new ones have be the newer model (Buyan-M.  You thinking of Buyan).  But nice try retard.  Lie to us more about your position in Syria instead of bullshitting your knowledge here.

BTW, this small ship sure packs a punch.  Something that corvettes in most western countries cannot do.  But hey, tell me more.

it's 1k tons when they load all the ammo and what not genius without all that shit it's about 500 (Full load verse standard load).....What the ship can do doesn't justify the build time. You can fangasm all you want over this really I don't care. It just shows your ass is ignorant and will fanboy over the Russian navy and ignore their clear issues.

I find it funny really.

Even if it was 1k in standard it's still pathetic three years for a 1k ton ship.

You are fucking stupid, you know that?

First off, you are reading bullshit cause here you go dumbass:

http://www.deagel.com/Fighting-Ships/Project-21631_a002256002.aspx

Second of all, Russia build larger sized ships in same time period:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_Grigorovich-class_frigate

So like I said, please, go to the Syria thread and lie more there. Cause your lying here is just ridiculous as well.

Thank you. Kindly go give a blowjob to Israel while you are there in the middle east, which I don't think you are.

Freaking idiot


"FULL DISPLACEMENT" do you KNOW what that means it means thats how much it weighs one all the supplies and everything else has been loaded INTO the ship.

Also I wasn't talking about those ships, Yantar plus Pelia are the only two capable shipyards in Russia all the others are shit. They delay after delay and they take so long to build something they shouldn't

Don't even try and do that lame ass argument. "Oh this shipyard can build this fast"

For real? wtf does that have to do with Buyans taking three years when they should not, You cannot use one of the two good shipyards in russia to try and justify what is shit work.

you have only proved you are a fanboy to the extremes and are using stupid arguments to justify your weak claim.

Russia has problems with shipbuilding and that is quite proven with all the delays and long ass build times they have. I do not need to argue this with you the Russian ship building industry has a whole proves this for me.

If you cannot recognize a problem you are part of the problem.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Freaking idiot


"FULL DISPLACEMENT" do you KNOW what that means it means thats how much it weighs one all the supplies and everything else has been loaded INTO the ship.

Also I wasn't talking about those ships, Yantar plus Pelia are the only two capable shipyards in Russia all the others are shit. They delay after delay and they take so long to build something they shouldn't

Don't even try and do that lame ass argument. "Oh this shipyard can build this fast"

For real? wtf does that have to do with Buyans taking three years when they should not, You cannot use one of the two good shipyards in russia to try and justify what is shit work.

you have only proved you are a fanboy to the extremes and are using stupid arguments to justify your weak claim.

Russia has problems with shipbuilding and that is quite proven with all the delays and long ass build times they have. I do not need to argue this with you the Russian ship building industry has a whole proves this for me.

If you cannot recognize a problem you are part of the problem.

Yeah, and you are pretty fucking stupid to think that after adding in weapons, the ship becomes double the weight.  Like I said, go somewhere else.  I must have touched a nerve when I called you out on your previous bullshit.  Others have had too. Now I call you out on this, since you are stupid enough to think that a displacement doubles in size after adding in weapons.  Jesus tap dancing christ, if you really are a foot soldier in the army, it was probably because you failed in everything else in life.

My favorite part is where your bullshit predictions in Syria became nothing but hot air and you were called out on it. Man, that really made my day.

miketheterrible wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Freaking idiot


"FULL DISPLACEMENT" do you KNOW what that means it means thats how much it weighs one all the supplies and everything else has been loaded INTO the ship.

Also I wasn't talking about those ships, Yantar plus Pelia are the only two capable shipyards in Russia all the others are shit. They delay after delay and they take so long to build something they shouldn't

Don't even try and do that lame ass argument. "Oh this shipyard can build this fast"

For real? wtf does that have to do with Buyans taking three years when they should not, You cannot use one of the two good shipyards in russia to try and justify what is shit work.

you have only proved you are a fanboy to the extremes and are using stupid arguments to justify your weak claim.

Russia has problems with shipbuilding and that is quite proven with all the delays and long ass build times they have. I do not need to argue this with you the Russian ship building industry has a whole proves this for me.

If you cannot recognize a problem you are part of the problem.

Yeah, and you are pretty fucking stupid to think that after adding in weapons, the ship becomes double the weight.  Like I said, go somewhere else.

Your pretty stupid yourself for not knowing basic Naval terms here is some material for you to study. I just realized you don't even know what displacement is and how it's measured.....LOL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_(ship)#Loaded_displacement

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Freaking idiot


"FULL DISPLACEMENT" do you KNOW what that means it means thats how much it weighs one all the supplies and everything else has been loaded INTO the ship.

Also I wasn't talking about those ships, Yantar plus Pelia are the only two capable shipyards in Russia all the others are shit. They delay after delay and they take so long to build something they shouldn't

Don't even try and do that lame ass argument. "Oh this shipyard can build this fast"

For real? wtf does that have to do with Buyans taking three years when they should not, You cannot use one of the two good shipyards in russia to try and justify what is shit work.

you have only proved you are a fanboy to the extremes and are using stupid arguments to justify your weak claim.

Russia has problems with shipbuilding and that is quite proven with all the delays and long ass build times they have. I do not need to argue this with you the Russian ship building industry has a whole proves this for me.

If you cannot recognize a problem you are part of the problem.

Yeah, and you are pretty fucking stupid to think that after adding in weapons, the ship becomes double the weight.  Like I said, go somewhere else.

Your pretty stupid yourself for not knowing basic Naval terms here is some material for you to study. I just realized you don't even know what displacement is and how it's measured.....LOL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_(ship)#Loaded_displacement

So genius, care to show us how it is 500tons then?  I am fully aware the displacement, you don't need to try.  I am now calling you out on Buyan-M's displacement as standard hull and mast vs full load.  Please, share it with us.

And I rather be a Russian fanboy than a dumbass liar like I pointed out to you two.

You are not aware of displacement

"the ship becomes double the weight"

You clearly thought ship weight is measured by the ship it's self which that is not how displacement is used to measure a ship. Has shown.

The process of determining a vessel's displacement begins with measuring its draft[1] This is accomplished by means of its "draft marks" (or "load lines"). A merchant vessel has three matching sets: one mark each on the port and starboard sides forward, midships, and astern.[1] These marks allow a ship's displacement to be determined to an accuracy of 0.5%.

So no do not lie to try and cover up what was a failure of understanding on your end I am about done with you tho, The Buyan M is 500t light displacement.

I thought I was talking to someone who understood basic naval terms and information, I am glad I was able to teach you something hopefully next time you keep this in mind. I am out now this conversation is done.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:You are not aware of displacement

"the ship becomes double the weight"

You clearly thought ship weight is measured by the ship it's self which that is not how displacement is used to measure a ship. Has shown.

The process of determining a vessel's displacement begins with measuring its draft[1] This is accomplished by means of its "draft marks" (or "load lines"). A merchant vessel has three matching sets: one mark each on the port and starboard sides forward, midships, and astern.[1] These marks allow a ship's displacement to be determined to an accuracy of 0.5%.

So no do not lie to try and cover up what was a failure of understanding on your end I am about done with you tho, The Buyan M is 500t light displacement.

I thought I was talking to someone who understood basic naval terms and information, I am glad I was able to teach you something hopefully next time you keep this in mind. I am out now this conversation is done.

And you said the Ship is 500tons and then becomes 1000 tons at full load.  Nice try.

Please, point out where Buyan-M has a 500T light displacement then.  Please.  I cant seem to find it.  Maybe your military contacts do have it with a legitimate link.

you taught nothing to nobody.  You don't even have basic naval terms yourself.  You make up numbers and provide no evidence. Then when you were called out on it, you instantly went the route of the displacement of light vs full load, to try and side track your claim after I called you out on it.

PapaDragon wrote:
They need to take off their diapers, grow up and start working on frigates because they have corvettes and missile boats coming out of their asses.

Not going to happen until the indigenous supply chain for marine gas turbines, power train, auxiliaries and all associated controls systems are complete and I'd guess these won't be fully online until 2018/19 (though the first examples of engines and gearboxes should be available 2017 for the Pr.22350 Adm Golovko).

The RuN seems to want to hold on commitment to further Frigate hulls until the new Saturn turbines have proven themselves, and this approach is commendable and fully justifiable. Defer the Golovko and Isokov until local powerplant becomes available, then followup the initial 4x 22350s with an upsized 22350M to include generational improvements (its been 11 years since Gorshkov was laid down). Whats not to like? The schedule sux of course, but it cannot be avoided and is due solely to treacherous Ukropi in any case.

My concern is what to do about critical operating spares for Gorshkov and Kasanatov? Clearly turbine spares cannot be purchased from Zorya-Mashproekt, but what about the rest of the drivetrain? What about electrical & instrumentation & control systems? Is the turbine control cabinet based on Ukropi-supply electronic components? Can spares be procured, or should Russia plan on a complete control system replacement? What about eventual replacement of the Ukropi turbine? Hopefully the major interfaces and overall form factors of the domestic machinery have been specified to be compatible and will allow for a relatively inexpensive changeout?

Lots of questions and possible issues with long-term operation of Gorshkov and Kasanatov, but at least its only 2 units....

Mike you are not capable to have any discussion without insulting other members aren't you?

Just for reference , The USS Gerald R. Ford story:
First cut of steel : 11 August 2005
Keel lay down : 13 November 2009
Floated out :11 October 2013
Formal delivery : 31 May 2017
Full capability status ( as I read it is the equivalent of the delivery in the RuN ) : 2020?


So, the building of the Ford actually takes 15 years.

Big_Gazza wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
They need to take off their diapers, grow up and start working on frigates because they have corvettes and missile boats coming out of their asses.

Not going to happen until the indigenous supply chain for marine gas turbines, power train, auxiliaries and all associated controls systems are complete and I'd guess these won't be fully online until 2018/19 (though the first examples of engines and gearboxes should be available 2017 for the Pr.22350 Adm Golovko).

.................

Lots of questions and possible issues with long-term operation of Gorshkov and Kasanatov, but at least its only 2 units....

There is several year long gap between laying hull down and engine installation. Plenty of time to test out new engines. Basically they are wasting several years on nothing. 

That is unless there aren't any problems with shortage of surface ships. But I honestly doubt it's the case.

Gorshkov and Kasatonov will be fine, worst case scenario they just rip out Ukrainian engines and install Saturns down the road.

PapaDragon wrote:

There is several year long gap between laying hull down and engine installation. Plenty of time to test out new engines. Basically they are wasting several years on nothing. 

That is unless there aren't any problems with shortage of surface ships. But I honestly doubt it's the case.

Gorshkov and Kasatonov will be fine, worst case scenario they just rip out Ukrainian engines and install Saturns down the road.

It simply showing that you have no clue about the requirement of engine design/validation.

Timeline:
1.Subsystem
Design -> manufacturing -> test
2. full system
assembly-> test

The test is actually the lifetime test, means that you put the first units onto a test bench, and run it for the expected lifetime.

So, if the unit expected to spend say 30 years on sea, with 25% deployment then you expected run run the test for 7.5 years.

Of course you can say that the average workload is 30%, so if you run the test with 100% for 2.5 years then it will be an indicative about the performance.

Best practice is if the test start with say 7 units, and if there is a failure then re-design, fix and continue the test .


The subsequent units doesn't needs to go through the proto test, all that you need to prove is the manufacturing stayed within the tolerances, and the unit works within the specs.

The test needs to be done with the assembled power train, including simulated shaft load , due to the characteristics of the gas turbine.

Singular_Transform wrote:Just for reference , The USS Gerald R. Ford story:
First cut of steel : 11 August 2005
Keel lay down : 13 November 2009
Floated out :11 October 2013
Formal delivery : 31 May 2017
Full capability status ( as I read it is the equivalent of the delivery in the RuN ) : 2020?


So, the building of the Ford actually takes 15 years.

A > 100,000 ton CV takes almost as much time to get operational as a RuN's new 5,000 ton LST. RUSSIA STRΟNK!
Not to mention that over a dozen of AB destroyers (or better cruisers) were inducted by the USN in the same time frame.

KiloGolf wrote:

I am almost afraid to ask but what's the status on this one?

It was fun for a while but even I am getting all WTF? on this.

It is seriously stretching my 2010-rule...

PapaDragon wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

I am almost afraid to ask but what's the status on this one?

It was fun for a while but even I am getting all WTF? on this.

It is seriously stretching my 2010-rule...

No idea, they kinda announced their Navy would accept it in 2017. Not sure what happened after that.

Newer models seem to be rather fine. Earlier models not so much, going by Franco said. Predominantly, things didn't start to fix in production of Yak-130 till around 2011, and that was before Ukraine debacle. Really, Yak-130 is great, except for fact that it now requires total import substitution for it. They should have expected this at least since it was obvious even then how West treated Russia then, and how problematic Ukraine was then too (2004 should have been a wake up call for many in Russia, but I guess they needed a rehash 10 years later to get that cold water in the face).

Last news about Ivan Gren that i have found was from several weeks ago and he was on degaussing... again.
Anyway it was anounced that he will join fleet not before November so they are still on track.

marat wrote:Last news about Ivan Gren that i have found was from several weeks ago and he was on degaussing... again.
Anyway it was anounced that he will join fleet not before November so they are still on track.

Good Lord

While this is all sad for the Navy, it is true though that it is the least important branch of the Russian military.

Alright, i finally found it, it's called the Briz Corvette
Had to type in "experimental russian corvettes" to find it.



https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/august-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5508-krylov-center-presents-concept-corvette-briz-at-army-2017.html

Also, what's this???
Trimaran Stealth Corvette?

AlfaT8 wrote:Alright, i finally found it, it's called the Briz Corvette
Had to type in "experimental russian corvettes" to find it.



https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/august-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5508-krylov-center-presents-concept-corvette-briz-at-army-2017.html

Also, what's this???
Trimaran Stealth Corvette?

meanwhile the frigate and destroyer program's induction rates are running at turtle-fast pace

miketheterrible wrote:Admiral grigorovich is actually within reason of 3 years. I don't know why they just don't build more of those.

Agreed.

If you ask me, they should have concentrated on them only. Just build them Grigorovich boats, for all major fleets, in big numbers. The Gorshkov seems too big and too complicated for Russia, they don't seem to be able to get the missiles right anyway.