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SeigSoloyvov
Singular_Transform
KomissarBojanchev
flamming_python
AlfaT8
Isos
GunshipDemocracy
SLB
Tingsay
T-47
hoom
Big_Gazza
PapaDragon
miketheterrible
Austin
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    Briz-class corvette

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:03 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:.................

    How about this Serb, why don't you wait and see?  They managed to build Frigates in a decade.  I don't know where you get that from? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_Grigorovich-class_frigate

    Maybe you are just acting stupid for no reason other than trying to sound smart.  It isn't working though.  I imagine you work for the shipbuilding plants in Serbia that explains all the time on your hands? Laughing

    So it's working and it got accepted into service?

    HEAVENS BE PRAISED!!! cheers

    For a while there I thought that they couldn't get missiles to work even after 10th factory trial and that they got stuck on 4 ships in class without even ordering more for some nebulous reason...

    Good thing I was wrong. russia
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:06 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:.................

    How about this Serb, why don't you wait and see?  They managed to build Frigates in a decade.  I don't know where you get that from? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_Grigorovich-class_frigate

    Maybe you are just acting stupid for no reason other than trying to sound smart.  It isn't working though.  I imagine you work for the shipbuilding plants in Serbia that explains all the time on your hands? Laughing

    So it's working and it got accepted into service?

    HEAVENS BE PRAISED!!! cheers

    For a while there I thought that they couldn't get missiles to work even after 10th factory trial and that they got stuck on 4 ships in class without even ordering more for some nebulous reason...

    Good thing I was wrong. russia

    It isn't using Redut, you are thinking of the wrong ship.  You are thinking Gorshkov. Which the issue was 1 missile type BTW and apparently, that passed remaining tests too as of recently.

    Anyway, this is boring.
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    Tingsay


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    Post  Tingsay Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:39 am

    SLB wrote:

    So the 20386 has 4 more Redut VLS than the 20380 (33%more), all the while weighing 1200 ton more (55% more !). Not really impressed here.

    Supporting naval infantry and navy special forces in what corner of the empire? This is not the US of A Imperial Navy, it is the Russian Navy.
    Let the american morons get their special forces troops killed half world away, Russian Navy needs much more the capability to fire anti-ship
    and land attack stand off missiles, than to insert/extract half a dozen special forces guys in a lost hellhole.

    IMHO corvette with the 20385 armament but powered by Russian engines would have been a better concept than the 20386...

    You need to reassess your view of the Derzky. It is not meant to be an LCS.
    It is actually one of the better ships currently being made right now. The internal space that can hold a variety of different weapons and equipments is very very creative, making it a flexible ship.
    Do you need more Kalibr's in a particular situation?    Take out/in equipments and Rearrange
    Do you need a speed boat or two and feel extra kalibr is useless?    Take out/in equipments and Rearrange
    Do you need more UAVs in a particular situation?    Take out/in equipments and Rearrange

    I can go on....

    Criticize the other new ships planned but hands off on the Derzky. That is a fine ship.
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    Post  SLB Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:11 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    SLB wrote:.........
    Supporting naval infantry and navy special forces in what corner of the empire? This is not the US of A Imperial Navy, it is the Russian Navy. Let the american morons get their special forces troops killed half world away, .....

    Yes it is not US Navy, it's Russian Navy and Russian Navy's main purpose is to go after submarines, not surface ships. Surface ships can't nuke Russian cities unlike submarines.

    And going after submarines is 20386's main purpose.

    SLB wrote:.........
    Russian Navy needs much more the capability to fire anti-ship and land attack stand off missiles, than to insert/extract half a dozen special forces guys in a lost hellhole..............

    Firing anti-ship and land attack stand off missiles is on bottom of priority list for Russian Navy.

    Hostile submarines are located neither on surface nor land.


    SLB wrote:.........
    Well, I think one can design a ship with 1 UKSK, 16 redut cells, paket, and a helicopter around Saturn engines...

    Yes you can and they did. It's called 20386 Derzkii corvette. Foloving vessels are to get UKSK instead of Uran.

    Remember how Steregushii became Gremashii? Same thing here only from as early as second ship.


    Well I had heard nothing on that front, but if that is the case, when I see a 20386 with UKSK being launched,
    I'll take back my pessimistic outlook on that ship.

    I also agree that ASuW is the biggest priority, but the capability of firing Oniks, or possibly Zirkon is also very important.
    Uran is all good and fine, but not so good for targeting large ships
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:54 am

    Short info vid about new corvette's layout.

    https://iz.ru/642002/video/grafika-korvet-lider-nov

    and some pics:

    Briz-class corvette - Page 2 1

    Briz-class corvette - Page 2 2449b79b46b841dbb0682a00fd60c0da


    Briz-class corvette - Page 2 Da540537cbfd41c5b4930ddcfaae7064
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    T-47


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    Post  T-47 Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:54 pm

    Thats the destroyer in the video, not this corvette -_-
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:39 pm

    T-47 wrote:Thats the destroyer in the video, not this corvette -_-

    In the end it's all just anime fanart just like everything else from Krylov.
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    Post  T-47 Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:18 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    In the end it's all just anime fanart just like everything else from Krylov.

    Well at least that destroyer model matches with description provided unlike the corvette.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:01 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    T-47 wrote:Thats the destroyer in the video, not this corvette -_-

    In the end it's all just anime fanart just like everything else from Krylov.

    Its just fanart...  until the 1st one gets built.

    Seriously, instead of just shitting on Krylov because of their "pagoda" Lider, whats your issue with this corvette design?  I personally like it, and if they can keep the manning level down to a minimum, I think its feasible.

    Krylov, Khunichev, Kurganmashzavod...  I think you just hate enterprises starting with K....  Very Happy
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    Post  Isos Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:19 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    T-47 wrote:Thats the destroyer in the video, not this corvette -_-

    In the end it's all just anime fanart just like everything else from Krylov.

    Its just fanart...  until the 1st one gets built.

    Seriously, instead of just shitting on Krylov because of their "pagoda" Lider, whats your issue with this corvette design?  I personally like it, and if they can keep the manning level down to a minimum, I think its feasible.

    Krylov, Khunichev, Kurganmashzavod...  I think you just hate enterprises starting with K....  Very Happy

    They have tons of new corvette design ... They should start working on bigger ships. At the end all their corvettes are same with UKSK and redut vls. That's what happen when you standartize your ships every design will be equal to the other. Soviet ships were designed around their missiles that's why they were beautifull while now you put the VLS and make it work in the open ocean. Steregouchy proved to be able to do that ... why waste time with more corvette design.



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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:28 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    T-47 wrote:Thats the destroyer in the video, not this corvette -_-

    In the end it's all just anime fanart just like everything else from Krylov.

    Its just fanart...  until the 1st one gets built.

    Seriously, instead of just shitting on Krylov because of their "pagoda" Lider, whats your issue with this corvette design?  I personally like it, and if they can keep the manning level down to a minimum, I think its feasible.

    Krylov, Khunichev, Kurganmashzavod...  I think you just hate enterprises starting with K....  Very Happy

    I got no beef with K. Especially not with Kurganmashzavod. As for Krunichev are you going to tell me that you are a fan of those dicks? Cool

    My issue is that everyone is having a boner when they start counting missiles on this anime BS while nobody make an effort to ask about RANGE and ENDURANCE. That's the problem here.

    If you remember it was short range and endurance that prompted Navy to go from Steregushy to Gremashi/Derzki corvettes.

    And now we have this fanart that is supposed to have same or even smaller range and endurance than Steregushy. WTF???

    And they have the balls to claim that it will cost little more than Buyan. Horseshit!!!

    This has ''SCAM'' written all over it.

    VLS systems alone will cost as much as Buyan and then you need to add price of hull itself + radars + sonars + torpedoes + helicopter infrastructure + CIWS. At least.

    All for ship that will not be leaving coastal AA and anti-ship coverage 90% of the time. With that attitude it is cheaper to just bolt some sonars on Karakurts and call it a day.

    They have plenty of corvette types in production. They need to move on to building stuff they actually need.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:33 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    My issue is that everyone is having a boner when they start counting missiles on this anime BS while nobody make an effort to ask about RANGE and ENDURANCE. That's the problem here.

    If you remember it was short range and endurance that prompted Navy to go from Steregushy to Gremashi/Derzki corvettes.

    And now we have this fanart that is supposed to have same or even smaller range and endurance than Steregushy. WTF???


    But Russian Navy also evolves in needs first 20380 then 11356 then again 22800 so direction is depending on combination financing, political situation and shipyards' abilities. If this can fulfill duties of Groskhovs in littoral waters, especially in North for one third in price and with high pace of production then why not?

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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:02 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:...................

    But Russian Navy also evolves in needs first 20380 then 11356 then again 22800 so direction is depending on combination financing, political situation and shipyards' abilities. ....

    Shipyards are supposed to carry out orders of the MoD not the other way around

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:........
    If this can fulfill  duties of Groskhovs in littoral waters, especially in North for one third in price and with high pace of production then why not?


    Anything can fulfill Gorshkov's duties in littoral waters because there you have naval aviation, coastal defenses and land based AA systems on speed-dial.  

    As for anything further it would have to go back to restock not long before coastline is out of sight.

    They have corvettes in production. Much superior ones than this horseshit financial scam.  

    They need to take off their diapers, grow up and start working on frigates because they have corvettes and missile boats coming out of their asses.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:29 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:...................

    But Russian Navy also evolves in needs first 20380 then 11356 then again 22800 so direction is depending on combination financing, political situation and shipyards' abilities. ....

    Shipyards are supposed to carry out orders of the MoD not the other way around


    My point was MoD has been changing mind so many times that current adjustment can be also a viable option.



    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:........
    If this can fulfill  duties of Groskhovs in littoral waters, especially in North for one third in price and with high pace of production then why not?


    Anything can fulfill Gorshkov's duties in littoral waters because there you have naval aviation, coastal defenses and land based AA systems on speed-dial.  


    What is obviously not true in case of Arctic or even most of far east. Sparse bases sparse airfields. Say 500 miles from land. S-400 at best can cover 100, Kh-35 100 miles too. 100 miles from base not forman point of land right?






    PapaDragon wrote:
    They have corvettes in production. Much superior ones than this horseshit financial scam.  
    They need to take off their diapers, grow up and start working on frigates because they have corvettes and missile boats coming out of their asses.

    You clearly are not big fan of this concept well let's wait for Navy decision makers. None of current corvettes or MRK have not even close parameters. In case of real war there might be no time to get back to base. Whatever you have in one salvo might be all.

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    Post  Isos Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:55 pm

    They should design a new anti ship missile specific for big ships like P-700 was. Military speaki,g not really good idea but financially speaking they will need to produce big ships so they will give more work to shipyards.
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    Post  AlfaT8 Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:13 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    T-47 wrote:Thats the destroyer in the video, not this corvette -_-

    In the end it's all just anime fanart just like everything else from Krylov.

    Its just fanart...  until the 1st one gets built.

    Seriously, instead of just shitting on Krylov because of their "pagoda" Lider, whats your issue with this corvette design?  I personally like it, and if they can keep the manning level down to a minimum, I think its feasible.

    Krylov, Khunichev, Kurganmashzavod...  I think you just hate enterprises starting with K....  Very Happy

    I got no beef with K. Especially not with Kurganmashzavod. As for Krunichev are you going to tell me that you are a fan of those dicks?   Cool

    My issue is that everyone is having a boner when they start counting missiles on this anime BS while nobody make an effort to ask about RANGE and ENDURANCE. That's the problem here.

    If you remember it was short range and endurance that prompted Navy to go from Steregushy to Gremashi/Derzki corvettes.

    And now we have this fanart that is supposed to have same or even smaller range and endurance than Steregushy. WTF???

    And they have the balls to claim that it will cost little more than Buyan. Horseshit!!!

    This has ''SCAM'' written all over it.

    VLS systems alone will cost as much as Buyan and then you need to add price of hull itself + radars + sonars + torpedoes + helicopter infrastructure + CIWS. At least.

    All for ship that will not be leaving coastal AA and anti-ship coverage 90% of the time. With that attitude it is cheaper to just bolt some sonars on Karakurts and call it a day.

    They have plenty of corvette types in production. They need to move on to building stuff they actually need.

    Gonna have to go with PD on this one.

    IMO, With respects to Corvettes, the Russian navy should focus on the Karakurt and the Drezki, and if anything bigger is needed than expand the Drezki design.
    With that said, i am not against something like this, problem is, in it's current form it just doesn't make sense, the superstructure alone has me baffled, and what the hell is that thing between the missiles and the superstructure.

    On a lesser note, the missile config is just wrong, anti-air need to be in front while UKSKs in the back, unless there are two Pantsirs in front (picture isn't very clear), if so, then it's doable.

    And as PD said, no way in hell is it gonna be cheaper or even as cheap as the Buyan.

    P.S: Can you guys give this ship a name, can't find any info without it's name.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:32 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote: Gonna have to go with PD on this one.

    IMO, With respects to Corvettes, the Russian navy should focus on the Karakurt and the Drezki, and if anything bigger is needed than expand the Drezki design.
    With that said, i am not against something like this, problem is, in it's current form it just doesn't make sense, the superstructure alone has me baffled, and what the hell is that thing between the missiles and the superstructure.

    On a lesser note, the missile config is just wrong, anti-air need to be in front while UKSKs in the back, unless there are two Pantsirs in front (picture isn't very clear), if so, then it's doable.

    And as PD said, no way in hell is it gonna be cheaper or even as cheap as the Buyan.

    P.S: Can you guys give this ship a name, can't find any info without it's name.

    Oh guys it is like you discuss something not reading source Smile

    https://iz.ru/636793/dmitrii-litovkin-aleksei-ramm/voenno-morskoi-flot-poluchit-narodnyi-korvet

    source said:
    The corvette will cost the military seamen a little more than a small rocket ship (MRK) of the "Buyan" type. Therefore, the project has already received an informal name "people's" and "budget." According to its characteristics, the novelty seriously exceeds the MRK. According to experts, a new corvette is needed for the Russian Navy. It is a good option to get for a relatively small amount of money a fleet of shock ships with great potential and unique characteristics.

    Nobody said it is cheaper. How little is this "little bit" nobody knows. Buyan -M is also not for free. Relatively cheap might mean 35% of Gorskhov's price for example so 130 mln USD Smile


    but this is most interesting for current discussion
    As "Izvestia" was told in the General Staff of the Navy, the draft of the new corvette has already been preliminarily studied and received positive reviews.


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    Post  AlfaT8 Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:53 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote: Gonna have to go with PD on this one.

    IMO, With respects to Corvettes, the Russian navy should focus on the Karakurt and the Drezki, and if anything bigger is needed than expand the Drezki design.
    With that said, i am not against something like this, problem is, in it's current form it just doesn't make sense, the superstructure alone has me baffled, and what the hell is that thing between the missiles and the superstructure.

    On a lesser note, the missile config is just wrong, anti-air need to be in front while UKSKs in the back, unless there are two Pantsirs in front (picture isn't very clear), if so, then it's doable.

    And as PD said, no way in hell is it gonna be cheaper or even as cheap as the Buyan.

    P.S: Can you guys give this ship a name, can't find any info without it's name.

    Oh guys it is like you discuss something not reading source Smile

    https://iz.ru/636793/dmitrii-litovkin-aleksei-ramm/voenno-morskoi-flot-poluchit-narodnyi-korvet

    source said:
    The corvette will cost the military seamen a little more than a small rocket ship (MRK) of the "Buyan" type. Therefore, the project has already received an informal name "people's" and "budget." According to its characteristics, the novelty seriously exceeds the MRK. According to experts, a new corvette is needed for the Russian Navy. It is a good option to get for a relatively small amount of money a fleet of shock ships with great potential and unique characteristics.

    Nobody said it is cheaper.  How little  is this "little bit" nobody knows. Buyan -M is also not for free. Relatively cheap might mean 35% of Gorskhov's price for example so 130 mln USD Smile


    but this is most interesting for current discussion
    As "Izvestia" was told in the General Staff of the Navy, the draft of the new corvette has already been preliminarily studied and received positive reviews.


    There's an oddity in that very article, apparently it'll have 24 UKSK's and only 16 (32) Reduts, that don't add up, they got it backwards (it's 16 UKSKs and 24 (48) Reduts).

    At the same time on its board are 24 universal launchers 3S-14 for the launch of long-range cruise missiles Caliber and anti-ship Onyx. This is more than on ships with a similar displacement of the type "Buyan-M" or "Karakurt." And little less than the "Leader".

    The corvette also has a powerful air defense system. These are 16 long-range guided missiles and 32 are small ones.
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:09 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:...................

    But Russian Navy also evolves in needs first 20380 then 11356 then again 22800 so direction is depending on combination financing, political situation and shipyards' abilities. ....

    Shipyards are supposed to carry out orders of the MoD not the other way around

    My point was MoD has been changing mind so many times that current adjustment can be also a viable option.

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:........
    If this can fulfill  duties of Groskhovs in littoral waters, especially in North for one third in price and with high pace of production then why not?

    Anything can fulfill Gorshkov's duties in littoral waters because there you have naval aviation, coastal defenses and land based AA systems on speed-dial.  

    What is obviously not true in case of Arctic or even most of far east.  Sparse bases sparse airfields. Say 500 miles from land. S-400 at best can cover 100, Kh-35 100 miles too.  100 miles from base not forman point of land right?

    PapaDragon wrote:
    They have corvettes in production. Much superior ones than this horseshit financial scam.  
    They need to take off their diapers, grow up and start working on frigates because they have corvettes and missile boats coming out of their asses.

    You clearly are not big fan of this concept well let's wait for Navy decision makers. None of current corvettes or MRK have not even close parameters. In case of real war there might be no time to get back to base. Whatever you have in one salvo might be all.



    1) If they even dare to change their mind one more time after all the naval construction bullshit they pulled off over the decades they will prove to be far dumber than Soviets ever were and that they deserve to be partitioned and colonized

    2) Arctic and Far East require ships with range and endurance. This thing has neither. Wouldn't last one good storm in Arctic. It would work in Baltic maybe, nowhere else. 

    3) Derzkii and Gremashi are in those parameters weapons wise and far surpass it in terms of range and endurance.

    As for price they are trying to sell something that they claim is same as Lexus, that is size of Smart car and that it will cost "little more" than Fiat. Horseshit start to finish.
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:22 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:...................

    But Russian Navy also evolves in needs first 20380 then 11356 then again 22800 so direction is depending on combination financing, political situation and shipyards' abilities. ....

    Shipyards are supposed to carry out orders of the MoD not the other way around

    My point was MoD has been changing mind so many times that current adjustment can be also a viable option.

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:........
    If this can fulfill  duties of Groskhovs in littoral waters, especially in North for one third in price and with high pace of production then why not?

    Anything can fulfill Gorshkov's duties in littoral waters because there you have naval aviation, coastal defenses and land based AA systems on speed-dial.  

    What is obviously not true in case of Arctic or even most of far east.  Sparse bases sparse airfields. Say 500 miles from land. S-400 at best can cover 100, Kh-35 100 miles too.  100 miles from base not forman point of land right?

    PapaDragon wrote:
    They have corvettes in production. Much superior ones than this horseshit financial scam.  
    They need to take off their diapers, grow up and start working on frigates because they have corvettes and missile boats coming out of their asses.

    You clearly are not big fan of this concept well let's wait for Navy decision makers. None of current corvettes or MRK have not even close parameters. In case of real war there might be no time to get back to base. Whatever you have in one salvo might be all.



    1) If they even dare to change their mind one more time after all the naval construction bullshit they pulled off over the decades they will prove to be far dumber than Soviets ever were and that they deserve to be partitioned and colonized

    2) Arctic and Far East require ships with range and endurance. This thing has neither. Wouldn't last one good storm in Arctic. It would work in Baltic maybe, nowhere else. 

    3) Derzkii and Gremashi are in those parameters weapons wise and far surpass it in terms of range and endurance.

    As for price they are trying to sell something that they claim is same as Lexus, that is size of Smart car and that it will cost "little more" than Fiat. Horseshit start to finish.

    1. If Karakurt is designed as a partially ocean-going or Arctic/Pacific version of the Buyan-M; which it is, then this new ship ought to hold out in such waters too.

    2. This new ship is basically a Karakurt with anti-sub capability and Redut - otherwise it seems to be not significantly larger and probably not more than say 30% more expensive.

    3. This thing compared to Steregushchyj/Gremyashnyj/Derzkiy is an actual Corvette, as in the actual concept of that class. The 20380/20385/20386 project ships are called Corvettes too but are larger and have more firepower. Really, they are more like light frigates.

    4. Which means there could be a niche for thia ship. But I agree with your other post for the most part; really, this is another Krylov vapourware initiative that will likely go nowhere, and the focus now should be on larger ship projects.
    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:39 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:...................

    But Russian Navy also evolves in needs first 20380 then 11356 then again 22800 so direction is depending on combination financing, political situation and shipyards' abilities. ....

    Shipyards are supposed to carry out orders of the MoD not the other way around

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:........
    If this can fulfill  duties of Groskhovs in littoral waters, especially in North for one third in price and with high pace of production then why not?


    Anything can fulfill Gorshkov's duties in littoral waters because there you have naval aviation, coastal defenses and land based AA systems on speed-dial.  


    They have corvettes in production. Much superior ones than this horseshit financial scam.  


    But it takes upwards of 6 years to build Buyans. Russian shipyards can't competently build anything other than kilos and maybe the karakurts.
    Singular_Transform
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    Post  Singular_Transform Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:27 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:

    But it takes upwards of 6 years to build Buyans. Russian shipyards can't competently build anything other than kilos and maybe the karakurts.

    They need to rebuild the industrial background.
    The 2014 ukrainan problems thrown a wrench into the process, but as soon as they can make the first the things will speed up.

    First is when you learn, second-fourth where you practice to acceptable level, and five - thirty where you master, and afterwards all of the simple routine.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:36 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    But it takes upwards of 6 years to build Buyans. Russian shipyards can't competently build anything other than kilos and maybe the karakurts.

    If that's the case then absolutely last thing they need is another ship c!ass on the roster, especially fanart frigate whose equivalents are already in production.
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    Post  AlfaT8 Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:27 pm

    Still no name for our mystery ship guys, what's going on?? Suspect
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:43 pm

    He is lying about the Buyan claim:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyan-class_corvette

    Average is about 3 years.

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