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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:55 am

    Wagner does not have such ROE limits

    We've seen them use su24 better than the VKS can use a su34

    They fly in and drop the ordinance on the enemy

    There's literally nothing complicated or complex about it - its simple enough that prigozhin can fly WSO on the missions

    You don't have to level the whole city, just wherever the strongest resistance is coming from - I am not sure why this is such an alien concept for people of a plane dropping bombs , it's basically tried and tested since WW1

    But but , what about the nazi civilians!

    Seriously, if an offensive is planned, and they're gonna do it this way, just blind infantry charges, call it off and just sit on defense

    For some reason, the Armed Forces is fighting with its arms tied behind the back
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:57 am

    If I had my way I'd just pitch up my hamock, chill, while the artillery does its work day and night and I await my shift

    But hey guess what I'm a nobody, and I certainly don't know neither the strategic-political situation that might encourage activity from the military, nor the operative situation on the ground and whatever priorities they have at the moment.
    So I simply take it as a matter of faith, that if they're advancing, and advancing on Ugledar - that there is a reason for it, and that reason is an important one. After all, the Ukrainians have also pulled in reinforcements and some of their best troops there; they're serious about the place too.

    And given that you already answered your own queries about RoEs and Ugledar's commanding position, well then the conclusion comes naturally.
    It's a well-defended settlement that's for whatever reason a priority to take, and Russia while taking it must avoid collateral damage to the maximum extent possible.

    Not a great set of circumstances. But that's what you even have an army for. And sometimes the only thing you can do, is advance. Even if from only 1 direction. And sometimes you can come across a nasty surprise while doing so.

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    zorobabel
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    Post  zorobabel Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:00 am

    flamming_python wrote:Picturing some African hipsters with mini-afros sipping latte at a pretentious cafe in downtown Lusaka discussing who's right and wrong in the Russo-Ukrainian war

    I'm sorry what? Suspect
    I live in the 3rd world. I don't think you realize how deep the GAE propaganda has penetrated into the upper middle classes of Africa and Southeast Asia, no.

    Appealing to Leftist tendencies just turns off everyone with an IQ over 105. Maybe that is what Putin is aiming for?

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:03 am

    FlamingPython wrote:
    So I simply take it as a matter of faith, that if they're advancing, and advancing on Ugledar - that there is a reason for it, and that reason is an important one. After all, the Ukrainians have also pulled in reinforcements and some of their best troops there; they're serious about the place too

    Dude you don't need to be in GS to see that Ugledar is behind Avdeyevka and Marinka

    And that's where Donetsk is getting bombed from

    So it's obvious why they want to take it- as to your point about civilian casualties - if every Ukro bombing kills or injures 10 Donbass residents, then this sort of action is already causing collateral damage

    There's just no way to deflect about it - if the goal is to take it quickly, to prevent further donbass bombings (which is proven by a hasty offensive conducted by company) then there are better ways to go about it

    If you still want to go sit on your ass and scratch your head about it, go ahead , but sucks to be a marine right now

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    Regular
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    Post  Regular Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:27 am

    FP wrote: No it didn't, it all still applies

    Russian equipment and vehicles are superior by any metric to what the Ukrainians have. The Ukrainians have some comparable or better equipment only in a few cases. Night-vision googles for their elite infantry. Maybe some of the thermals on their latest upgraded T-64 tanks. Maybe their indigenous ATGM system is better as it is capable of being operated remotely without risk to the operator.

    Most everything else is an advantage to the Russian side. Does that mean they will win every engagement, deflect every tank shell, put every round on target? No it doesn't. It only improves the average statistic.

    Tanks and aviation do have undisputed quality advantages over Ukraine. But unfortunately they are not deciding factors in this type or the fighting. Other advantages are purely quantitive.
    IFVs are but identical. Very few unique BMP-3s or modernised BMP-2M.

    Russian troops might have better heavy equipment, but their supplies are terrible. Giant with clay legs where soldiers have even ask for winter socks on Telegram channels.

    Govorit Topaz spoke with Razvedos, Dizainer and people who were in this hell themselves about the issues. The sentiment is clear, if you get mobilised, best to go to Wagner than in army.

    No idiotic ROE, no random “shas ya chuchu namandrochyu” commanders (Wagner works by meritocracy), no shitty uniforms, no short supply in anything, night vision, thermals, IFF, proper up-to-down command. Better than what Ukrainian SSO has even with all the western freebies. Makes me think that Prigozhin needs to replace Emercom guy.

    Actually, Ukrainians themselves said they were relieved when Wagner gave reigns to marines in Ugledar direction. Only to get their banderlog balls even more squeezed in Bakhmut.
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    Azi


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    Post  Azi Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:31 am

    https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1623826157224222722?cxt=HHwWhICz5avS_ogtAAAA

    "Regarding that video of the failed Russian assault near Ugledar today. No one's posting the longer version. Because it shows that most of the "30 destroyed vehicles" from the BrOSINT screenshots simply retreated intact and weren't destroyed at all."

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:32 am

    I live in the 3rd world. I don't think you realize how deep the GAE propaganda has penetrated into the upper middle classes of Africa and Southeast Asia, no.

    Appealing to Leftist tendencies just turns off everyone with an IQ over 105. Maybe that is what Putin is aiming for?

    Liberals are the intermediaries of foreign capital as Trotsky said; setting themselves up as the interconnecting layer between wealthy foreign industrialists and your native ignorant workforce, and profiting from it

    So don't expect them not to go for 'GAE propaganda', whatever that is; it's just a matter of self-interest ultimately.

    But I really don't get why you think Russia has that target audience in its sights at all, or why you think Russia's propaganda is left-wing & liberal at all. Sure RT's is a little, but that's just one of the instruments.

    then there are better ways to go about it

    Sometimes you're only able to figure that out the hard way, after the easy way proves to be not so easy after all.
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    Post  billybatts91 Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:38 am

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    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:47 am


    Russian troops might have better heavy equipment, but their supplies are terrible. Giant with clay legs where soldiers have even ask for winter socks on Telegram channels.
    Many jackals are circling in hunt for contracts with MoD. As it can be seen with todays situation with that 22 year old kid's "start-up". And some people deeply embedded within the state structures know that time to make money is now.
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    Post  Regular Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:02 am

    Azi wrote:

    It seems that if looking closer at Butusov video, it seems that most of the tanks were recovered.


    If looked closer, all of them seem to be detracked, and in the pictures it seems ARV is there already.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 9 Dd072c10

    BMPs were not as lucky. Especially the one called “Dracula” that basically, earned his name in blood. There are footage of infantry being grenaded and shelled.

    I think it’s bullshit story about Ukrainians having seen them from buildings. It was pro-russian channels who claimed this. Looking at location, it was a massive field and all the footage doesn’t show direct combat, but shelling and couple grenades being dropped from drones.

    From those 30 “tanks” only visible catastrophic kills were BMPs, there was no attack as claimed, just Russians driving into the mine field. This was probably further away from Ukr lines as engineers managed to recover them. See parked Ural truck and parket BMPs and tanks in treeline in Butusovs footage.


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    Post  Backman Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:23 am

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    Post  Backman Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:25 am



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    Post  franco Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:33 am

    Backman Today at 9:23 pm

    Regarding that video of the failed Russian assault near Ugledar today. No one's posting the longer version. Because it shows that most of the "30 destroyed vehicles" from the BrOSINT screenshots simply retreated intact and weren't destroyed at all. pic.twitter.com/wrFA7KiWKK
    — Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) February 9, 2023



    This video is a perfect example for all those arm chair generals screaming for a full scale Russian assault across the steppe or door to door fighting through built up urban terrain... fu$king bunch of morons.

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    Post  Broski Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:45 am

    Oh God the defeatists have swarmed the forum again, like herpes they just keep coming back lol.

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    Post  xeno Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:46 am

    So the disaster which caused several members on this forum whining for 8 hours didn't happen? Most of the vehicles supposed to be destroyed retreated back to the own side?

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:13 am

    Well something happened.

    Just as we can say something happened when we come across one of a dozen vids each day that show Ukr vehicles or manpower or whatever being destroyed.

    But notice that in but a paltry few of the ones showing losses on the Ukrainian side, whether posted by Russian telegram channels or those of the opponent's - do we receive some detailed account of what we're supposed to be looking at, how it went down, how it shows monstrous incompetence and not a single lesson learned over the past year, which Army Group commander is responsible for the alleged ineptitude of some captain or major, which Lapin, which Mamedov for the 2nd time in a row, about how all the rules of engagement used by the Ukrainian forces are wrong, that this division performs poorly constantly, about how that other brigade is so much better, or to whom to turn to to receive new socks from at the front-line.

    No, none of that shit, just the footage itself with at most with a short caption, and so everyone is left to their own devices to come to their own conclusions about what they're looking at and what's going on. Or alternatively to discuss among themselves at forums such as this one.
    As it should be.
    Because dumb **** comments and explanations and walls of text can be written by anyone and faked by anyone. Videos can't, at least not full-length unedited ones - when it comes to careful editing and re-ordered scenes then sure there is some room for manipulation too.
    And under the conditions of information war one can't demand anything but that.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:17 am; edited 1 time in total

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    dionis


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    Post  dionis Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:16 am

    Where in what video (including timestamp) are those vehicles "retreating" ?..  and why would they have all stopped in a bunch in the first place if they weren't disabled or destroyed?

    I saw groups of vehicles and then a further away shot of these vehicle being hit by artillery. Unless there's evidence of that large grouping moving away in a video, all of that stuff was destroyed by Ukrainian artillery almost certainly if the infantry managed to retreat.
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    Post  Regular Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:18 am

    Engineers saved the day and recovered DETRACKED tanks even during artillery shelling. But this is ****-up that cost many lives. No mine-rollers in sight.

    I won’t post the footage, but BMPs are not having a good day, especially the previously seen “Drakula” BMP-1 who crushed it’s own desant making many Ukrainians go on lengthy virtual masturbation sessions and spam it on every forum.

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:20 am

    If the Ukrainians don't mind giving away their positions by shelling empty vehicles, then honestly that's not such a bad trade either, as long as it can be taken advantage of by Russian forces.
    Once again, Russia is in no shortage of armoured vehicles nor the capacity to produce new ones.
    Personnel on the other hand don't grow on trees.

    The recording quadrocopter is in the air, presumably Ukrainian, so it wouldn't surprise me if they did shell them
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:22 am

    Engineers saved the day and recovered DETRACKED tanks even during artillery shelling. But this is ****-up that cost many lives. No mine-rollers in sight.

    I won’t post the footage, but BMPs are not having a good day, especially the previously seen “Drakula” BMP-1 who crushed it’s own desant making many Ukrainians go on lengthy virtual masturbation sessions and spam it on every forum.

    You're always yapping on about all these videos you see and the monstrous Russian casualties they purport to show

    Post a link to the footage with a warning, people can decide for themselves whether they want to watch it or not (I don't care to personally)

    And what ****-up?
    Were they targeted by Ukrainians from a building, or advanced onto a minefield? Because you guys change your stories and it's confusing.
    If they advanced onto a minefield; the whole point is that you won't have mine-rollers available as you wouldn't know the mines are there beforehand.

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    Post  dionis Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:28 am

    So how was the recent Ukrainian POW murderer outed so quickly?

    I can only imagine sold out by other Ukrainians who thought that was fucked up? Well either that or they just found any Ukie rando and blamed him for it.


    @FP

    What kind of idiot would think that there's no mines in a field in front of a heavily fortified position? You assume every meter of mined by default.

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:33 am

    So how was the recent Ukrainian POW murderer outed so quickly?

    I can only imagine sold out by other Ukrainians who thought that was fucked up? Well either that or they just found any Ukie rando and blamed him for it.

    They're usually arrogant enough to show their faces or to have done so earlier and post some videos earlier

    @FP

    What kind of idiot would think that there's no mines in a field in front of a heavily fortified position? You assume every meter of mined by default.

    Where's the heavily fortified position in the video?

    All I see is a field, a dirt road and a tree line. Could be anywhere. Could be 100 miles from Ugledar although I assume that the Telegram doomers are at least not lying about the approximate location.

    And assuming everything is mined will slow any movement down to an absolute crawl

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    Post  dionis Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:38 am

    @ FP

    Ugledar is supposed to be a very heavily fortified position due to it being a small concrete jungle (many highrise buildings) and on higher elevation vs. its South. This is per the usual Russian Telegram sources.

    https://en-us.topographic-map.com/map-jmrgp/Ukraine/?center=47.76737%2C37.23816&zoom=13

    It's like blatantly obvious that given heavy mine usage during this conflict that all approaches to it would be mined heavily.


    Regarding the POW killer - is that a fact? Is his social media known?

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:49 am

    I'm not asking about how fortified Ugledar is, I'm asking about where is it in relation to where the unit on video was.

    And if you don't have that information, and I don't have that information, and the Telegram nobodies are full of shit in everything they say - then there is nothing to discuss. And certainly no valid accusations of incompetence can be made based on what we don't know

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    Post  dionis Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:13 am

    @FP

    Man I hardly bothered but it's obvious they are near one of multiple treelines moving up to Ugledar.

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