Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

Big_Gazza wrote:

billybatts91 wrote:More delusional talk. Trends? Who cares, I'm talking about the Ukraine conflict and only that. Could care less about the trends in the geopolitical future that will take place decades from now. What collapse of morale? Ukrainians seem to have a pretty high morale as of right now thanks to the large swaths of land they've taken from the Russians recently.[url=https://servimg.com/view/20411266/14]

Mobilization, big deal, let's see how this mobilized force will perform in the coming weeks. If they have successes, I will praise them obviously. We have to see how things play out in the coming weeks. You're getting ahead of yourself as if Russia has had some big success as of late when it clearly hasn't, only losses/failure. Your optimism right now is not warranted until Russia has success on the ground and starts taking back the land that belongs to it. Until then, the criticism of Russian leadership and actions should continue as to light a fire under their asses! Ramzan has done it a lot recently and he's in Putin's inner circle, we should be doing the same.

FYI, "trends in the geopolitical future" are not happening decades from now.  They are happening TODAY   Don't believe that collapse of Western authority isn't happening just  because our witless sock puppets won't admit it publically. The West can lose a military confrontation in Ukropistan and survive intact, but it CANNOT survive a loss of global dominance and the undermining of the petro-dollar fiat currency that underpins its true power.

Ukie morale soared as they advanced into territory that Russia decided to abandon so they could consolidate their over-stretched lines of contact (manpower limitations caused by the self-limiting terms of reference of the SMO, not any actual "weakness" of the Russian military), but has since collapsed as they finally reached Russias defense-lines and have not been able to advance since despite their horrendous losses.  Try to understand.  Advancing across a broad front while your opponent avoids your attacks and you fail to deliver any significant damage to him is NOT a victory.  You are being led by the nose.  Ukies now understand they have been manipulated to be right where the Russians want them - out of the cities, within easy reach of Russian forces, tired, exhausted, beaten down, armour lost, suppies running low, massive casulaties.

As an example, Ukie dog-soldiers on the northern "Kharkov" front find themselves stuck between an upcoming Russian offensive and the Oskol river.  I had thought the Oskol was going to be a defence line, but it isn't.  Its a TRAP.  I think the Russians permitted the Ukrops to cross in strength, then held them with prepared defenses.  The Russian offensive will now take out the Ukropi river crossings, deny them a lne of retreat, and then CRUSH them as they break and run.  I suspect that Russian forces will probably turn south and converge on Slavyansk and Kramatorsk but that just my prediction and I've been wrong on tactical minutae plenty of times before, just like everyone watching from their counches.

Ukies are starting to panic and you can SMELL THE FEAR.  The REAL war is only just now beginning

We shall see. Where I will praise the Russians is they have had great success in defending territory they've consolidated now, after their retreats. That has been impressive since the Ukronazis have not been able to penetrate any further and there are many losses among them. And I will say, I have heard Wesley Clark (former NATO Supreme Allied Commander in Europe) hint that he felt like the slight Russian retreat that happened in Kherson is a tactic that the Russians are using to lure the Ukrainians deeper in and to eventually destroy them when the Russian winter counter offensive happens (bit of paraphrasing but that was the gist of what he was worried about). That surprised me that he was that candid in what he really thought and said it on CNN. Those are small hopeful things, but we need to see major Russian advances in November/December, that would be a great way to start off the new year. Ukraine can't be allowed to move deeper and deeper into the Donbass or Kherson, they're gonna have to be eventually push back and the sooner it starts the better. I pray it happens soon.

Social media infighting between commanders is mega cringe and indicates something is wrong in the higher echelons of power.

billybatts91 wrote:Ah....so it was all a 4D chess move lol. You're the Eternal Optimist Wow, it's pretty sad that Putin/Russian leadership ass kissers, like you, will stoop to these levels to excuse Russia's incompetence. You seem to have an answer for everything and spin every bad news as somehow good for Russia. You think you're smart, you're not. You're just coming up with creative ways to excuse Russia's piss-poor performance so far. A majority of what you write is absolute laughable nonsense, pure delusion. Russia needs some cold hard reality now, people like you are the problem. Pretending like Russia is doing great and pulling one 4D chess move after another, meanwhile they're losing this war currently and it will take a miracle to turn things around. God help Russia if there's clowns like you throughout the leadership with that idiotic mindset.

No I don't, you simply take everything at face value and fail to analyse any possible motives or strategies

The Russian leadership uses this diplomatic maneuver all the time, of signing something that they themselves do not have much faith in, waiting for the opponents to reveal themselves and act in bad faith, and then withdrawing from the agreement while using the occurrence as its legal argument presented to the rest of the world

It's the same story with the peace agreement now. Russia is saying that it's fully prepared to discuss peace, but it was not Russia that abrogated the peace negotiations back in April and not Russia that is refusing them now. And it's correct. I think it was a Nigerian diplomat that opined some months earlier that the global south countries are puzzled why it is that the West does not want to talk peace with Russia.

There is no incompetence when it came to the grain deal. Erdogan presented the proposal, African/Asian/other countries wanted that grain, so Putin complied, knowing full well that the West would sabotage it but that in that case it would be known that it wasn't his doing.

meanwhile they're losing this war currently and it will take a miracle to turn things around.

No, they're not

billybatts91 wrote:And I will say, I have heard Wesley Clark (former NATO Supreme Allied Commander in Europe) hint that he felt like the slight Russian retreat that happened in Kherson is a tactic that the Russians are using to lure the Ukrainians deeper in and to eventually destroy them when the Russian winter counter offensive happens (bit of paraphrasing but that was the gist of what he was worried about). That surprised me that he was that candid in what he really thought and said it on CNN. Those are small hopeful things, but we need to see major Russian advances in November/December, that would be a great way to start off the new year. Ukraine can't be allowed to move deeper and deeper into the Donbass or Kherson, they're gonna have to be eventually push back and the sooner it starts the better. I pray it happens soon.

Amazing that it took them 2 months to admit to what me and some others were talking about back at the beginning of September. Amazing that is, that they admitted to it at all, especially in just 2 months. As I heard even Zelensky has voiced the opinion that Russia has been retreating on purpose to try and lure in his forces

Meanwhile the greater part of contributors to this thread turned to doomism back then and were screaming about Russian routs, Lapin, Shoigu and whoever else's incompetence - including yourself; but then you never turned away from doomism since.

I would suggest to you to drop your own opinion as it's in fact not yours and you're incapable of wielding one anyhow. Simply read and observe.

Serberus wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
I'll explain

It's not a matter of balls nor of means. Simply one of information. If you don't know where said British specialists are, you can't take them out. Russia knows the town where they're based in, or supposes to, but that's about it. If their location is revealed then they'll be eliminated without any difficulty. While destroying an entire town just to kill them and what Ukrainian specialists work with them is not Russia's approach.

This problem is not as easy as it may sound to you or to other gung-ho types here. The US had constant trouble locating this or that pro-Iranian militia leader in Iraq, sometimes having to look for them for years.

In fact a number of cruise missile strikes across the Ukraine over the course of the war concerned themselves with targeting NATO specialists, I remember near Odessa some M777 artillery specialists were reported as killed by the Russian MoD. And there are other examples. Sometimes these mercs or agents though will succeed in what they're there to do and that's just part of war.

Screw cruise missiles across Ukraine, strike at their warships in Britain using 3rd parties just like what they are doing, strike at their bases around the world… arm their enemies.
There are many who have felt the sting of Anglo Nazism and would love the chance to strike back with some help from Russia. No balls, end of discussion.

This whole  “SMO” has been a shambles and your blindfolds are starting to really look sad. 9 fucking months and Russia isnt able to liberate Donbass let alone all the territories they have “annexed”. Cant take small towns and villages like Artemovsk or Avdeevka after months of fighting but some of you talk about taking large cities like Nikolayev, Zaporozhye or even Odessa… thats some fantasy level shit.

Not a single large scale offensive in months, no gains of any sort, massive loss of territory, on the back foot on almost every front. If you're happy with this results after 9 months I feel for your state of mind.

Putin can make all the great speeches he wants, hold referendums , but if the enemy holds the ground its all for nothing, we can yell Kosovo is Serbia all day every day but at the end of the day its symbolic bullshit as long as the enemy hold the ground.

At what point do you start smelling the roses.

Another doomer who joined on the eve of the war?

And you guys are as if in a chorus now trying to convince us of coming defeat. Saying that either everyone should be sacked, or of the need for some drastic immediate action.
When actually things are looking better for the Russian campaign every day and mobilization is yielding fruit.

What's the matter, what are you afraid of? Because it can't be those toy boats with explosives the British and Ukrainians sent against the ships in Sevastopol.

All this stuff about major cities and no large offensives has been explained many times before.
I'll briefly summarize. Again.
When you have Stoltenburg talking about how NATO 'cannot loose', Russia has to be cautious before advancing too deeply into the Ukraine too quickly. While Mariupol has showed that taking heavily defended cities is costly. Better to let them come to you; this solves both issues.

billybatts91 wrote:We shall see. Where I will praise the Russians is they have had great success in defending territory they've consolidated now, after their retreats. That has been impressive since the Ukronazis have not been able to penetrate any further and there are many losses among them. And I will say, I have heard Wesley Clark (former NATO Supreme Allied Commander in Europe) hint that he felt like the slight Russian retreat that happened in Kherson is a tactic that the Russians are using to lure the Ukrainians deeper in and to eventually destroy them when the Russian winter counter offensive happens (bit of paraphrasing but that was the gist of what he was worried about). That surprised me that he was that candid in what he really thought and said it on CNN. Those are small hopeful things, but we need to see major Russian advances in November/December, that would be a great way to start off the new year. Ukraine can't be allowed to move deeper and deeper into the Donbass or Kherson, they're gonna have to be eventually push back and the sooner it starts the better. I pray it happens soon.

Very good.  Now we agree.

I understand your frustrations and agree completely.  If the Russians do somehow fck this up I will just as savage in my criticism as anyone else.  In all honesty, I just don't see that happening.

ucmvulcan wrote:

zorobabel wrote:Social media infighting between commanders is mega cringe and indicates something is wrong in the higher echelons of power.

Is it? Patton and Montgomery hated each other.  Zhukov and Konev didn't particularly care for each other.  Criticizing each other doesn't mean something is wrong, it just means two guys don't like each other.  I have a couple coworkers I really don't like, and that feeling is mutual, but our team is always winning awards and bonuses for most production and highest quality.  So really, its a nothing burger.  As long as the mission is accomplished so what.

I don't like plenty of my coworkers. Some of the stuff I work on affects whether people live or die. I don't post about it on social media.

Patton was American and Montgomery was British, not even part of the same command. The fact that Lapin had to be brought down by social media posts is cringe.

ucmvulcan wrote:

Is it? Patton and Montgomery hated each other.  Zhukov and Konev didn't particularly care for each other.  Criticizing each other doesn't mean something is wrong, it just means two guys don't like each other.  I have a couple coworkers I really don't like, and that feeling is mutual, but our team is always winning awards and bonuses for most production and highest quality.  So really, its a nothing burger.  As long as the mission is accomplished so what.

Except you never wash your dirty linen in public…it’s beyond believable to see members of the general ranks publicly lash each other. What other military have you seen do this?
To me it smacks of indiscipline and a piss poor example to be showing subordinates, not to mention the mileage your enemy gets out of it coupled with the concern it may put on the public at home. I can’t but imagine other militaries reprimanding and demoting in such cases tbh. But it seems to be the Russian way, idk why but I guess if objectives are met then nobody will really remember these incidents.

Robert.V wrote:Of course.   But aren't you a bit goddamn tired that Russia has a tendency in any of it's forms entering wars with pants half way on ?

Invading Ukraine with such insufficient forces..   come now.
And we both read the same  forums on RuNet we both have I'm pretty sure have former army buddies and  family members.

Brigades being only full strength on paper wasn't a theory.

We heard plenty on Ukraine and i'm sure we will hear even more once the dust settles.  But that doesn't excuse a lot of  stupidity and **** ups that have happened on  our side.

I know you been always a optimist. But I'm surprised how this whole war been handled doesn't infuriate you.

Normal part of every army, every war, every bureaucracy to have fk-ups. It's not exclusive to Russia.

However it's all corrected quickly and with this I'm satisfied. The initial orders were corrected within days when it became apparent they weren't working.
About brigades being full strength or half-strength I don't have any information, nor do I see why it should matter. The brigade commanders and army commanders know the strength of their own brigades, and an appropriate amount of total forces will be mustered for an operation.

If you look back at the first two months of the war, this thread was full of observations about what deficiencies, problems, etc... there are. From the VDV not having nightvision to vehicles in tank columns travelling too close together.
But it's impossible not to have such issues. A lot of things will not become apparent until the war begins and exposes them.
And for any army that's not constantly fighting such huge wars - there will be such surprises.
Same with the mobilization. When it was initiated there were a huge amount of screw-ups. Yet how else could it have gone for any country where mobilization is not regularly practiced and refined? Main thing is that there was transparency and the issues were addressed promptly. It was unrealistic to expect that they would all have been eliminated ahead of time.

There are still things I'm dissatisfied with. Such as anti-drone warfare and systems having taken so long to make their way to the front. When this war started I was sure that the Russian military with its powerful EW means will simply create a zone of avoidance around all its battalions. But it hasn't worked out that way and with this I continue to be puzzled.

But again, by and large I personally share little of your frustration.
Nor do I have much to redress the tactics and strategies being used. It seems prudent to maintain positions and encourage the enemy to advance at you rather than doing it yourself, if you want to minimize your own casualties because you anticipate that NATO might come in or anything else could theoretically happen. Of course for those looking for a quick rout like of the Iraqi army in 2003 or talking points against NATO trolls on twitter then I can certainly understand the frustration.. but I see caution and patience as more important.

The biggest failure of Russia is the political strategy. I said this before. Any given tactical or equipment deficiency is not more than 100 men this or that way.
But what has turned this war into the carnage fest that it is (regardless of for whom) - is that Russia has failed to split or destabilize the regime in Kiev. It failed to negotiate a peaceful settlement, as it had failed to enforce Minsk before the war. And its expectation of mass surrenders in the Ukrainian military has also not panned out. But it was worth a try at least, so even here I'm sympathetic.

sepheronx wrote:

It's a new age buddy.

We see this with US, Canadian and pretty much everywhere else social media exists and is strong.  China has control over it, Russia doesn't.

This guy left at his own accord but if I was in Russian command I would request both social media to be banned entirely and information be controlled.  That and I would demand Kadyrov to keep his big fucking mouth shut.  Kadyrov relies too much on social media and he needs to be reigned in.

I've seen generals sacked over media shit more than once and it's absolutely pathetic.

When word got out that people of telegram channel's were gonna start facing prosecutions in Russia, I thought it was a good thing.  Lots of these telegram  channel's were spreading western fud anyway

Yeah it defo is a new age but that doesn’t make it uncontrollable.

A simple directive from the top - no social media allowed, end of. And yes the Chechen who clearly has a lot of heart etc but needs to voice his concerns appropriately and not via a global audience.

ucmvulcan wrote:UNLESS. . . . YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SEE YOU FIGHTING.  This may be maskirovka in the cyberage.  The Russians can't fight, they are bickering.  Nope, no new offensive soon. Their General staff is in disarray.  Morale is low, the troops are not ready, pay no attention to what you see in front of you (120,000 in Belarus and 120 in the south), their army is in disarray. . . . Just something I have been kicking around for a few minutes.  Part of deception is to get someone to see what they want to see.  If someone's propaganda is telling them something, you troll them and you play up what their propaganda is saying.  Dissention in their army? Play that up.  Old tanks? play that up.  Play it and play it hard.  I think something like that may be happening.  

Yes

It may sound like eternal optimism to some, but the simple fact is that Occam's Razor doesn't apply during warfare. If you can deceive your opponent you can win, and the more elaborate the deception the more you can surprise them. That's a big incentive to do it.

crod wrote:Yeah it defo is a new age but that doesn’t make it uncontrollable.

A simple directive from the top - no social media allowed, end of. And yes the Chechen who clearly has a lot of heart etc but needs to voice his concerns appropriately and not via a global audience.

IMO, Kadyrov is only voicing what the Kremlin is asking him to. He's not going to undermine the Russian war-effort for popularity points

Why it's asking him to say these sorts of things, your guess is as good as mine

thegopnik wrote:

https://twitter.com/GeromanAT/status/1586375979269758977?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1586375979269758977%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

I certainly hope this is true. Start with the nato bases. Then go from there

This channel isn't always accurate. Nato doesn't even have nukes. But if anything close to this is true, its a good thing Russia has mobilized. They have a lot of work to do

And speaking of the Devil



Well it looks like they clocked on for good and further attempts do not pay propaganda dividends as people are sounding the alarm over loses and over-extension.

Was bound to happen sooner or later. Wonder what Russia's next move will be

PapaDragon wrote:
They were morons to sign it in the first place

Oh no my fellow armchair imperator of the galaxy, they were not.
What they proved in the first place, was the fact that Russia is a responsible member of a worldwide community.
That is more than 7 bln people, and only 1/7th of that are the "westerners".
A grain deal was just one of the tools Russkie used on the political ground.
The other - for example - was granting stolen fertilizers to poor countries.
Who is now the oppressor, responsible for the misery of nations?

Big_Gazza wrote:Pls add SPOILER to this sort of disgusting Ukropi war porn.  Its important to know the depths of Ukropi savagery, but warning should be given.

Possibly U.S, U.K special forces carrying out the execution of Russians.

Isos wrote:If it was damaged or sunk, they will have to launch Kinzhals at QE 2 carriers and sink them.

Russia needs to carry out a series of attacks on L0ND0N using non-state actors. U.K's economy will collapse with 24 hours.

jhelb wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:Pls add SPOILER to this sort of disgusting Ukropi war porn.  Its important to know the depths of Ukropi savagery, but warning should be given.

Possibly U.S, U.K special forces carrying out the execution of Russians.

They're definitely Ukrainians in the vid. Not to say someone isn't with them though

They do really love this tactic of sending in platoons or roving patrols of fighters on foot deep into enemy territory so that they can capture some vehicle crews or whoever else and then gruesomely execute them, as a means of psychological warfare.
Standard NATO action-film tomfoolery.

But it sounds like the sort of mission that would go wrong 9 out of 10 times. All it takes is for them to be noticed and a helicopter sent there or a TOS to provide fire support.

Isos wrote:Russia needs to carry out a series of attacks on L0ND0N using non-state actors. U.K's economy will collapse with 24 hours.

No, they don't

Because like it or not the Brits carried out the attack using the Ukrainians as a proxy, using only Ukrainian territory; and the British personnel were in the Ukraine as well and legitimate targets as well.

It's like how Soviet air defence crews shot down American planes in Vietnam. If it's deniable so it's fair game.

And it goes without saying that any NATO country or personnel that end up anywhere they're not invited in any future interventions, will invite immediate unlimited support from Russia to their enemies whoever they happen to be.
But that's another conversation for another time.

flamming_python wrote:It's not an embarrassment, such drones are very new in naval warfare, hard to detect and hard to deal with.

There are several such western weapon systems that Russia will have to face. To prevent such loses and embarrassment in the future, Russia needs to surrender and get out of Ukraine.

flamming_python wrote:How are AK-630s, optimized against anti-ship missiles flying close to or over the speed of sound - supposed to be able to detect underwater or partially submerged drones?

The best defense against them are EW means and jamming.

From the video; you can see an attempt by Russian naval vessels & a helicopter engaging the boat with no success. That's very embarrassing. Seemed to be shooting everywhere around the drone but not at it.

If you can't intercept a USV that at best has a top speed of 50 miles/hr and powered by a Sea Doo engine do you realize you ain't got a chance against sea skimming subsonic AShM?

flamming_python wrote:You and billybalts are trying your hardest to serve NATO on this forum, but it's not going to work.

Not that I had a chance but had it worked thousands of Russians would not have been dead. But then Kremlin and their supporters on this forum are sick people.

Those executed folks are not even properly uniformed, no weapon can be seen on the scene.
That is most probably some terror act behind the lines.
Like killing mechanics at the repair yard or something.
This is rather pathetic, still represents the core of Ukropistan indeed.

Besides, we can hear that they argue with each other about that.

A civil war is the worse type of war, executing POWs is just a gruesome part of the tragedy itself.
There was a footage made from drone when republican troops advanced into Ukro position making them run.
One of the wounded was executed either, and that was recorded.
An open question is whether was it an execution or an act of mercy because the other guy was taken prisoner without any cruelity. And the landscape/body looked quite similar as a poor soul with a skull breached and open I saw a while ago.

Western powers and their puppets go first. Then Russia will leave whatever thry deem to leave behind. Thry will own the black sea coasts and majority of Ukraine, though. This is the price the "rules hased" world order pays for meddling with a nation that borders Russia.

We would so the same thing. Go be a globalist bootlicker elsewhere, RTN.

Press release on the Russian Federation’s initiative at the UN Security Council on investigating US military biological activities in Ukraine.

• Over the past years, the Russian Federation has more than once raised the issue of the military biological activities conducted by the Pentagon and agencies within its jurisdictions in laboratories located far away from the United States on the Russian border in the post-Soviet countries.

• Such activities of the US military on territories adjacent to Russia have a direct effect on biological security of the Russian Federation.

• Evidence and materials acquired during the special military operation have revealed the true nature of US military biological activities in Ukraine.

• The scale and goals of military biological activities become clear from a report on the inspection of the collection of microorganism strains at the Mechnikov Anti-Plague Research Institute of the Ukrainian Health Ministry in Odessa. According to the report, the institute had in its storage 422 units of cholera causative agents and 32 units of anthrax causative agents.

• The list of documents at our disposal incudes the descriptions of projects UP-4, Flu-Flyway and P-781, which studied the potential spread of dangerous infections by migratory birds and bats, which can be regarded as the carriers of viruses. The spatial range of these projects included not only the Ukrainian regions that border Russia but also the territory of Russia.

• The above circumstances and the military-biological activities carried out in Ukraine are indicative of the fact that the United States and Ukraine are violating the provisions of Articles I and IV of the BTWC.

• In accordance with Article VI of the BTWC, and in the absence of a constructive response from the United States and Ukraine to our claims, the Russian Federation was left with no choice but to file a complaint with the President of the UN Security Council to launch an international investigation.

We will push to have our legitimate rights exercised based on the provisions of international law.

- Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation