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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #5

    lancelot
    lancelot


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    Post  lancelot Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:04 am

    The PS-90 and PD-14 engines are currently being assembled in the exact same building. So they do compete for the same resources. The same floorspace even.

    Also, don't be too surprised if they deliver the first fully Russified MC-21 before the first fully Russified Tu-214. The MC-21 has been flying for years already. They seem to have no issue flying to Dubai to show the aircraft in an airshow before it was in service. Heck, Rossiya is flight testing a couple of them in operational conditions for months already.

    As for the shorter length, that is only the case for MC-21-300. MC-21-400 has a longer length and the PD-14M engine. No, the Tu-214 isn't better at anything really.
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:07 am

    They have no issues flying to Dubai, because Dubai's Mark AB owns a whole stake of Super Jet International Laughing
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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #5 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #5

    Post  GarryB Wed Feb 14, 2024 10:22 am

    The Tu-214 is basically obsolete. And to expand production rate to that established in the state order they had to build a new building.

    It is not made of concrete and lead... with new engines it would actually be competitive with anything the west has on offer.

    It is also already in production and expanding that production makes more sense and would be rather easier and more predictable than cancelling production and shifting to producing a totally different aircraft like the MS-21 or Superjet. The materials and technology are different which means if you shift to all MS-21 and Superjet you end up with 12 months or even longer of nothing at all... possibly as long as 36 months retooling, retraining, and boosting production of component parts and materials like composite wings so they can start production.

    Aeroflot is complaining about the need to train flight engineers for the aircraft. And it will compete in terms of production resources with the MC-21. It uses pretty much the same suppliers.

    If it uses the same suppliers then cancelling it and making more MS-21 will create the same problem except for the gap when only MS-21s are being made in the current factories that are making them and the factories that did make the Tupolevs are now making nothing at all.

    Aeroflot created this entire situation by not buying Russian aircraft. If they paid a ruble to develop the damn planes they would have gotten more of a say in their design.

    Now... well beggars can't be choosers. Eat your crow and smile like it tastes good.

    It uses the PS-90 engine, which uses more fuel, was designed to meet a lower lifetime, and takes longer to build in terms of man hours than the PD-14.

    Not urgent and can be fixed later.


    There are few positives really.

    The positives are obvious... they need new Russian planes and currently three are in production with efforts being made to increase the rate of production of each of them.

    Compare the Tu-214 with the MC-21. Larger empty weight (56,500 kg vs 43,400 kg). Lower range (4,300 km vs 6,000 km). Similar 210 passengers in 1 class layout. The Tu-214 does have a higher max takeoff weight. So it could be more useful for a cargo aircraft. But if you put the PD-14M engines on the MC-21 it would probably get the same max takeoff weight.

    No. What you should be comparing is the Tu-214 compared with western aircraft that Russians are not allowed to buy or operate... and the Tu-214 wins hands down because it is Russian and Russia wont impose sanctions on Russian airlines and screw them over in 5 or 10 years time even if the conflict ends and sanctions are dropped it is only a matter of time before they come up with some other reason to put sanctions on Russia.

    The PS-90 and PD-14 engines are currently being assembled in the exact same building. So they do compete for the same resources. The same floorspace even.

    I doubt their production chains overlap. If it didn't work well then they should change it.

    I would say build a new facility for PD range engines and expand PS-90 to fill the current building... a brand new state of the art new facility for making PD type engines makes sense because the family idea means you need to make lots of them and different types too.

    Expanding PS-90 engine production allows aircraft production to increase... eventually as Superjet and MS-21 production can fill the need then those aircraft using PS series engines can shift across gradually to PD engines and the Tu-214 can be relegated to cargo roles or developed by the military as a common aircraft type for a range of roles for all the obsolete aircraft they currently operate.

    Also, don't be too surprised if they deliver the first fully Russified MC-21 before the first fully Russified Tu-214.

    The prize for being reckless with new aircraft designs and trying to show off ends in a crash and further delays.

    No, the Tu-214 isn't better at anything really.

    Better than any Airbus or Boeing... because they can buy them.

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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #5 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #5

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:18 pm

    They need brand new assembly areas anyway for PD-14.
    And they are building them because existing ones are relatively old and too small for serial production of PD-14 at the rate needed in the coming years (i.e. at least 150 engines per year starting from 2029).
    What they did assemble until now was only a few prototypes to support ground and flight test campaign.

    Furthermore PS-90 assembly could be even transferred to another plant. Most of large engine manufacturers (also in the west) are not directly responsible for producing all parts of the engine. Only for some specific parts for which there are dedicated and protected technologies (like blades, turbine and compressor disc, combustion chambers). And even for those the production sites are normally located away from engine assembly sites (and often in different cities).
     Most of other componente are just designed and then the production Is  given to other sub-suppliers. And for others the whole design and make is given to sub suppliers.The engine manufacturer Is then responsible of checking the quality of the all component, integrating the design and then assembling all parts together.

    Thus PS-90 assembly could be moved, if necessary, to other UEC plants, like in Samara. Or even another possibility would be to assemble them somewhere in Kazan. In the past they were already planning to have (in Kazan) some facilities to assemble the AI-22 engine for the Tu-324. They could do the same for the PS-90 (of course initially with assistance and training from Perm Engine specialists).

    Another option could be also Ulyanovsk near or at Aviastar. Also because they have there serial production of the il-76, each one of them with 4 PS-90 engines.
    Before the fall of the soviet union it was planned to assemble thr DT -18 engine of the An-124 there.

    And again such facilities could be later used to build different engines, once the PS-90 will not be needed anymore in such numbers.

    By the way I am also curious to know the difference in price between the PS-90 and the PD-14.

    As far as the Tu-214, I understand that some components were foreign and that it will take up to 2 years to completely Russify it. Still it needs to be done.
    And not only for the special aircrafts needed for the air force.

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    Post  lancelot Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:50 pm

    Vadim Korolev: “Tu-214 and MS-21 do not compete. We have to deliver 600 civil aircraft."
    December 11, 2023
    The head of Tupolev about the modernization of KAZ for 90 billion and where to look for 2.5 thousand workers

    In a maximum of three years, KAZ should begin building the Tu-214 on the principle of an assembly line, so the new modernization of the plant, which started in November, is being carried out according to an accelerated scheme. But when will the modernization that started in 2016 finally end? Which native of Kazan did the UAC appoint as curator of Tupolev? Why is there still no promised money from the National Welfare Fund, but only loans? How did the story about Aeroflot's comments on the appearance of the Tu-214 turn out? How are your relations with your fellow competitors from Yakovlev? Managing Director of Tupolev Vadim Korolev told BUSINESS Online about this in his first interview with the media.

    By the beginning of the 2010s, the giant Tupolev was lying on its side. None of the new aircraft it proposed went into civilian transportation, including the already flying Tu-334 and Tu-204SM. The Tu-204 was discontinued, the production site in Ulyanovsk went to Ilyushin, and the Tu-214 was declared too expensive and therefore suitable only for special aviation. Tupolev was no longer considered as a manufacturer of civil aircraft - they relied on the Superjet and MS-21. In the military segment, the company completed a couple of Tu-160 from existing parts and maintained a fleet of strategic and tactical bombers. There was hope for the Tu-330 military transport project, but it also remained unclaimed.

    Everything changed in 2015. The Russian leadership decided to resume construction of the Tu-160 - to modernize the Tu-160M, as well as to bring all existing vehicles to this level. In 2016, the Tu-22M3M project, which had only been discussed before, was launched. They began to talk about the possible appearance of new military modifications of the Tu-214 - patrol and electronic warfare aircraft. The project of a promising long-range aviation complex was taking on more and more realistic shape. In 2016, modernization for military purposes of the Kazan aircraft plant, a branch of Tupolev (KAZ), began.

    Intrigue also returned in the civilian area. The first hopes arose in connection with the appointment of Tatarstan President Rustam Minnikhanov as chairman of the board of directors of Tupolev in 2021. Previously, he, like his predecessor as head of the republic, Mintimer Shaimiev, more than once expressed bewilderment at the fact that Tupolevs and domestic aircraft were generally left out from civil aviation.

    By that time, Tupolev was becoming increasingly attached to Kazan, which was already the company’s main production base. In 2020, it became known that KAZ was preparing for the fullest scope of aircraft testing. There was also talk about moving the company to the capital of the Republic of Tatarstan. Republican leaders have been talking about special rights to participate in the affairs of Tu for a long time - both veiledly and quite openly. In the Republic of Tatarstan they recalled that in the 90s, when everything was collapsing, the region did a lot to save KAZ. Sometimes they say that this is self-PR by the Tatarstan authorities, but the facts prove the opposite, and the BUSINESS Online correspondent heard grateful statements addressed to the Republic of Tatarstan from old-timers of the Tupolev headquarters.

    In the spring of 2022, after the cessation of supplies of foreign aircraft to Russia, Minnikhanov had the chance to put his plans into action. The Russian government responded positively to his proposal to resume production of the Tu-214 - after a 15-year break. The plans of Kazan and Tupolev were not accepted by everyone, but the visit to KAZ in June of this year by Russian Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin put an end to the “debate”. He made it clear that the revival of the Tu-214 is not a whim of a single company or republic, but an urgent necessity. The thesis was supported by a promise to allocate 41.8 billion rubles from the National Welfare Fund and 42 billion rubles borrowed for the program. However, the “struggle of ideas” continues, albeit in a more veiled form. But, be that as it may, a month ago a new, now civilian, modernization of KAZ was launched. We are also talking about creating the next generation Tu-214.

    In October, Tupolev turned 101 years old. Last year, a monument to Andrei Tupolev was unveiled in the park next to the OKB building. In October, Tupolev turned 101 years old.

    The task of solving these problems is led by Vadim Korolev . He was appointed managing director of Tupolev in May 2021, becoming the fifth head of the company in 10 years. This rate of change of leaders also says a lot about the former (we hope) state of the “Tupols”.

    And let us remind you that in October Tupolev turned 101 years old.

    Vadim Korolev: “We will get a new plant with completely different capabilities compared to the current ones”

    When will the reconstruction of KAZ be completed and why is there still no money from the National Welfare Fund?

    — Vadim Vladimirovich, the first modernization of the Kazan aircraft plant, a branch of Tupolev (KAZ), had not yet been completed when the second one began, for the construction of the Tu-214, — on November 9, new workshops were laid. Which of these programs is larger?

    — The modernization of the defense-industrial program has been a long one - it has been ongoing since 2016, so its scale may not be so visible, but in general they are comparable. Having completed both, we will get a new plant with completely different capabilities compared to the current ones. The program of reconstruction and re-equipment for the Tu-214, of course, is ambitious in terms of time - 2–2.5, in the end - 3 years, otherwise it will be problematic to attain the specified production rate on time.

    — When will the ongoing modernization be completed? This was planned to be done in 2020.

    “The goal is to ensure construction readiness this year, but one facility will probably be completed by 2024.” The deadlines are determined, among other things, by the structure of the work itself. At the initial stage, we decided to prioritize the reconstruction of existing areas, and then the construction of new ones. Meanwhile, this is an existing production facility, you can’t close it, so all these years the contractors have been transferring space to us in fragments, moving more slowly than they could.

    Korolev Vadim Vladimirovich  was born on October 25, 1969.

    In 1992, he graduated from the Kharkov Higher Military Aviation Engineering Red Banner School with a degree in aircraft and power plants. Candidate of Economic Sciences.

    In 2012, he graduated from the Higher School of Business of the State University of Management with a degree in corporate governance and corporate finance.

    Before joining Tupolev, he held various positions in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

    Since 2015 - Deputy General Director of Tupolev.

    Since 2016 - Deputy General Director, Director of the Tu-160 program.

    Since April 2021 - First Deputy General Director for Program Management.

    Since June 23, 2021 - Managing Director.

    — What kind of workshops are to be built for the Tu-214?

    — The first is machining: more than 100 machining centers, which will cover almost the entire range of parts in this category for the Tu-214. The second is a unit-assembly plant; we will attach it to the huge final assembly workshop, which is being built today. We will get a complex with a production line similar to an assembly line. This principle was implemented in Irkutsk for the assembly of the MS-21, in Ulyanovsk for the Il-76MD-90A and in Lukhovitsy for the Il-114-300. Due to the tight deadlines, we are starting to build according to an accelerated scheme provided for by the regulatory framework and agreed upon at the government level.

    — As far as I understand, the final assembly shop in question was intended for other machines...

    — Yes, we changed its purpose - it is completely dedicated to the Tu-214 program.

    — It has been announced that 41.8 billion rubles will be allocated for it from the National Welfare Fund (NWF). Has the money started coming in?

    — Now, at the first stage, financing comes from loans.

    — There will be no money from the National Welfare Fund?

    - It will come. We are committed to not slowing down the pace of work, therefore, due to the time it takes to organize the receipt of funds from the National Welfare Fund, the initial stage of financing is being done with loans. Then they will be paid with money from the National Welfare Fund. Let me remind you that in June, at a meeting with Russian Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin, two stages of financing were discussed - allocation of funds from the National Welfare Fund and a bond issue.

    — We were talking about loans of 42 billion. The result is almost 84 billion...

    — Two programs have been combined: to release 10 Tu-214s per year from 2025, and 20 Tu-214s per year from 2027. In total, this is more than 90 billion.

    — There is a feeling that the post of second first deputy of the UAC, to which Konstantin Timofeev was appointed, was introduced primarily because of the transformation of KAZ...

    — I can’t comment on this assumption. Konstantin Petrovich was entrusted with the building block of the UAC, issues of strategic development of the corporation. And yes, he is the curator of Tupolev - this is logical given the fact that the new deputy general director is a native of Tatarstan and, as I am convinced, he is known in the republic.

    “And, what is fundamentally important, he is an aviation enthusiast and flies himself.”

    — I was amazed by this story. Once Rustam Nurgalievich (Minnikhanov - President of the Republic of Tatarstan - editor's note) asked him something about the Tu-214, and he replied that he did not know, and then, to find out, he was trained for this type at the Ulyanovsk University of Civil Aviation and received a pilot's certificate.

    “It’s not easy to accelerate production due to KAZ’s throughput: previously it produced an average of one and a half Tu-214 per year, but now the task is to grow by an order of magnitude”.

    What do airlines want and is there cooperation on the Tu-214?

    — It is already clear that there are difficulties with the implementation of the forecast delivery plan for Tu-214...

    — We are working hard, but there are delays. Firstly, it is not easy to accelerate due to the capacity of KAZ: previously it produced on average one and a half Tu-214s per year, but now the task is to grow by an order of magnitude. Secondly, the scheme for the provision of resources for scaling production can be called unique, so the formation of the corresponding rules took more time than initially expected. This affects the timing of technical re-equipment - both for us and, as far as I understand, for our partners. Now the necessary measures have been worked out, the money has flowed in.

    — Which vehicles will you deliver in 2024?

    — The first deliveries involve the Tu-214 for Aeroflot and in a special version.

    — The contract with Aeroflot is for how many aircraft?

    - 11 firm orders - the total intent in the interests of the group - is 40 aircraft, the deal was concluded with the leasing company Aviacapital-Service. Stage-by-stage delivery with the most comprehensive development program rules for the Russian aviation industry until 2030. Today we signed a contract for 11, we receive the advances, start production, deliver, and then do the next ones. We received an advance payment for the first five aircraft, started purchasing metal and producing parts with our partners.

    — Aeroflot issued 99 comments regarding what needs to be changed in the passenger cabin. Will they be taken into account?

    — Actually, there were no comments - just a normal work process. Aeroflot, taking into account its experience, made additional wishes for the airliner. Some of them will be funded by us, and others can be funded at the customer’s expense. The interior is consistent. The overall technical appearance of the cars for Aeroflot has also been determined. The approach is flexible, since the Tu-214 has good modernization potential. For the the Yakutia airline only a letter of intent for 10 aircraft was signed, but we have already agreed on the requirements for the future contract, so as not to waste time later.

    — Did the UVT Aero company put forward any demands?

    — No, there were only non-labor-intensive discussions that were agreed upon on the fly.

    — How many Tu-214s are in production and at what stage are they? Is there something being assembled?

    — One aircraft is in the final assembly shop. For others, work is at the stage of aggregate assembly, panel assembly. I note that such work has been launched for 4–5 aircraft.

    — Has cooperation been established for the construction of the Tu-214?

    — Contracts were concluded with almost all partners even before orders were received from the carriers; the entire first tranche from the airlines was given to our partners. We didn’t leave a penny for ourselves: we will spend it on our own needs from the second tranche. The work has been organized.

    — Do you need to replace a lot of imports?

    - No. Most of the components did not require development from scratch, just minor modifications were needed. But there are also some elements in the process of development.

    — Is there confidence that UEC will be able to supply engines regularly?

    — Our partners confirm their supply in the required volumes.

    — Will the engines for the new Tu-214 be different from the current ones?

    - No. The PS-90A has been finalized, and our fellow engine engineers do not yet see the advisability of serious improvements. Yes, you can make it a little more economical, add a little thrust, but it’s not worth the required investment. If we carry out remotorization in the future, it will be with completely new engines.

    About relations with Irkut, the change of chief designer of the Tu-214 and the move of Tupolev to Kazan

    — In June, you announced firm contracts for 20 Tu-214s, letters of intent for 67 aircraft and applications from potential customers for 61 aircraft. Can you name these actual and potential customers?

    — The firm contracts with commercial airlines are as mentioned above. As for the others, there are new aircraft for the special flight detachment “Russia” (SLO) and other special customers. A total of about 150 aircraft. We calculated the amount until 2033, because we have programs that are scheduled for implementation by this year, and by 2030 - there is to be a delivery of 115 aircraft.

    — Are special aircraft counted for as part of new construction or are we talking only about commercial vehicles?

    - They count as such.

    — In September, the media reported that SLO would renew its fleet, including Tu-214...

    — There is such a program, and for us it is an important part of the guaranteed demand for aircraft.

    — According to known information, Red Wings Airlines should receive two previously flown Tu-214s. When will this happen?

    — For one of the aircraft, its owner — Ilyushin Finance Corporation (IFC is part of the UAC — editor’s note) — is completing the procedure for restoring airworthiness and will soon transfer it to Red Wings. By the way, it was held in Kazan and was done with the participation of the KAPO Avia company. UAC will be using the second Tu-214 as a flying laboratory for testing updated components for some time. Then we plan to transfer the aircraft to a commercial operator.

    — Who will maintain and repair the Tu-214 of the new series?

    — Any company certified for this type. Today it is KAPO Avia, KAZ, Tupolev Tekhnik. But both Aeroflot and Ulyanovsk UZGA-Engineering want to receive the certificate. The operator will choose where to fly for maintenance.

    — How will the administrative conflict with the fact that Tupolev produces civil aircraft while remaining in the UAC strategic and special aviation division be resolved? The declared scheme, in which the construction of aircraft is controlled by Tu, and marketing, sales and after-sales service is controlled by Yakovlev, raises questions. The topic is especially interesting due to the obvious rivalry between the Tu-214 and MS-21.

    — “Conflict” is not the right word. Tupolev is the core of the UAC strategic aviation division, in this part we have super-ambitious tasks and super-responsibility, and at the same time we are involved in the Tu-214. Yakovlev, as the basis of the civil aviation division, has accumulated competencies in creating civil products and managing their life cycle, taking into account the requirements of commercial airlines. Today the carriers have about 160 Superjet. It took our colleagues a lot of time and resources to build an after-sales service system for them, but today it works. And by and large, it is logical to do things like the software platform not for each individual type, but for the whole line. And there is logic in the fact that today Andrei Ivanovich Boginsky, Deputy General Director of the UAC for Civil Aviation and General Director of Yakovlev, is leading the general direction of civil aviation. Moreover, the Tu-214 and MS-21 do not compete, but complement each other. Let me remind you that all of us together - both the UAC and the cooperation - will have to deliver 600 civil aircraft by 2030. There will be enough work and space in the market for everyone.

    — According to our information, there has been a change in the chief designer of the Tu-214...

    — Igor Kabatov is an experienced person, he spent many years working at Tupolev, he is our comrade. He had personal circumstances. Tupolev has a fairly strong design and production team. Continuity for us is not an empty word, so Igor’s watch will be continued by another worthy person from our team. The decisions have already been made.

    — There were several times discussions about moving Tupolev to Kazan...

    — Various ideas were expressed. I remember this story. When Rustam Nurgalievich was appointed chairman of the board of directors of Tupolev, he came to us for the first time. He had an hour and a half free, but in the end it took him 6 hours to show him everything: both the good and the bad. He walked up to the window of Alexei Andreevich’s [Tupolev] office (Andrei Nikolaevich did not have time to visit this office), and there was Yauza, the church. And then the bells rang. He says: “It’s a place of prayer, why leave here?”

    About personnel policy, hope for KNITU-KAI, toilets, locker rooms, canteens

    — KAZ needs workers and engineers. I can't imagine where you'll find them, especially the essential production workers...

    - Not an easy task. We really have hope for Kazan's educational institutions, although it is clear that the market in the republic is very competitive: we, and KVZ, and the UZGA division, and Zelenodolsk shipbuilding, not to mention other industries - delivery, logistics, trade. We build relationships with universities. Like other UAC enterprises, we have a targeted training program - at KNITU-KAI, MAI, Bauman Moscow Higher Technical School, and Moscow Energy Institute. But today we are more interested in Kazan, because people are needed primarily at KAZ. This year, the KNITU-KAI department was opened at the plant. Yes, targets are a small part, but I’m sure they’re just the beginning. It’s hardly worth counting on a plan for the regions of Russia, but we are preparing such a program for a number of areas. In the next three years, we must additionally find at least 2.5 thousand production workers.

    - How will you lure them in?

    — First of all, salary. There are positive changes in this area. There is a directive from Rostec and UAC that the average salary at the plant is required to be 10% higher than the city average. It’s difficult to do this immediately; we’ll go step by step. I see the remuneration of certain categories of workers as clearly unfair, we will level it out, even in some cases.

    We intend to attract workers with housing. We are working with the State Housing Fund of Tatarstan, there is a quota in the Salavat Kuper area. I agree, it’s not a very convenient place, but you have to start somewhere. To date, 10 families have entered the rental housing program - the company compensates 50 percent. Mortgage lending programs have appeared, which were previously only available in Moscow and Zhukovsky: we compensate the worker for half the interest rate, but the person has to undertake to work with us for at least a certain period of time. Requirements are strict: if the worker quits early, he has to return the money to the company that was paid to him, and we have already done this a couple of times. But everything is fair, which is why there is a queue for these programs.

    We are doing landscaping. It is necessary for workers to stop feeling like they are in a permanent construction site. People need simple things - renovated toilets, locker rooms, a good canteen. By the way, over the year we have greatly improved the quality of food - we have found good contractors.

    The personnel problem was discussed at a recent meeting of the Tupolev board of directors. A working group has been formed to solve this problem. Now we are writing a program for attracting and retaining personnel, by the end of the year we will roll it out at the level of Rustam Nurgalievich, and we will start working.

    — Will Tupolev be a partner of KNRTU-KAI in the program of advanced engineering schools?

    — At the same board of directors we received approval to participate in the NSP. In fact, we have a non-property contribution to co-financing the program: these are all the costs of the target audience, department, practice and other assistance that we can provide to the institute.

    About the next generation of Tu-214, the Tu-204SM program and the fate of the Tu-334

    — UAC General Director Yuri Slyusar announced that a proposal is being formed to create the next generation Tu-214. What is meant with that?

    - We have such a proposal. The first direction is the creation of an aircraft with a two-member crew. It should be tested in 2026. But let’s also keep aircraft with two pilots and a flight engineer: the military and special services require a minimum of three-member crew... The second direction is the creation of a short version like the Tu-204-300. It may turn out to be an effective aircraft for long-haul flights like Moscow - Vladivostok... And the third direction is a cargo aircraft. We are launching this on our own initiative - we want so that when the time comes, we will have something to show. The transport aircraft is potentially in great demand, for example, we have an application from one airline that would take 10 airplanes right now.

    - Tupolev has already created an aircraft with a two-member crew - the Tu-204SM. To put it simply, is it possible to take and transfer this cabin to the Tu-214?

    — The Tu-204SM received a type certificate 13 years ago, it was a breakthrough then, but today that complex of on-board equipment is outdated. Let me remind you that back then they decided to do a “moonshoot” with a super good product - they started the MS-21 program, so a lot - about 80 - of the Tupolev employees involved in SM moved to Irkut (today renamed to Yakovlev - editor 's note). As a result, it turned out that the control system for general aircraft equipment, which made it possible to implement the two-crew principle on the SM, was further developed in the MS-21, and today we, in fact, take it and modify it for ourselves.

    — What will happen to the two Tu-204SM in storage?

    — They belong to the Ulyanovsk Aviation Plant. There is an interested party who is ready to buy them and restore them for use.

    — At one time, KAZ had high hopes that it would be entrusted with the construction of the military transport Tu-330. Topic closed?

    - Today, yes. We are focused on fulfilling strategic, special and civil aviation missions.

    — Several years ago they spoke quite officially about military modifications of the Tu-214...

    “The airplane has such a future.”

    — Also, information has repeatedly surfaced in the press that a contract is about to be concluded with Tupolev for the modernization of 30 Tu-22M3s - to the Tu-22M3M standard...

    — So far we are talking about several aircraft, but we understand how and in what time frame to modernize the existing fleet when setting the appropriate task.

    — There is still a mature Tu-334 at KAZ. What will happen to him?

    — In concept, the Tu-334 is an excellent machine, but back then it was not brought to production. I am one of the few who flew on it as a business passenger, including about 15 years ago, when we demonstrated it at the Kazan airport to the Tatarstan airline team. They took their chief pilot and senior flight engineer with them to Zhukovsky and gave him control. It gave a very good impression... We will definitely keep the aircraft sitting at the factory, we will not let it go for scrap.

    https://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/616520

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    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 15, 2024 2:16 am

    By the beginning of the 2010s, the giant Tupolev was lying on its side. None of the new aircraft it proposed went into civilian transportation, including the already flying Tu-334 and Tu-204SM. The Tu-204 was discontinued, the production site in Ulyanovsk went to Ilyushin, and the Tu-214 was declared too expensive and therefore suitable only for special aviation. Tupolev was no longer considered as a manufacturer of civil aircraft - they relied on the Superjet and MS-21.

    Russian airlines abandoned Tupolev, don't blame Tupolev for that.

    Everything changed in 2015. The Russian leadership decided to resume construction of the Tu-160 - to modernize the Tu-160M, as well as to bring all existing vehicles to this level. In 2016, the Tu-22M3M project, which had only been discussed before, was launched.

    In 2014 the hostility of the west and the start of big sanctions over Crimea made Russia realise it needed to be able to look after itself and make all the things it needed.

    They realised they had a lot of obsolete aircraft from the Il-20s and Il-22s and Il-38s to the Tu-154Ms and Il-62s and Yak-40s and other types that needed replacement sooner rather than later.

    Issues regarding the An-2 and An-24/5/6 and An-12 and An-22 remained unresolved too.

    But until the Armata and Kurganets and Boomerang and Typhoon and DT-30 family ranges were sorted out they don't know what size transports they will be needing and in what numbers.

    Intrigue also returned in the civilian area. The first hopes arose in connection with the appointment of Tatarstan President Rustam Minnikhanov as chairman of the board of directors of Tupolev in 2021. Previously, he, like his predecessor as head of the republic, Mintimer Shaimiev, more than once expressed bewilderment at the fact that Tupolevs and domestic aircraft were generally left out from civil aviation.

    Everyone in Tupolev and Sukhoi and Yakovlev and Ilyusion should have been asking out loud why Russian airlines buy Airbus and Boeing and other non Russian types.

    More importantly everyone at the Russian airlines should have been asking why they are not flying Russian types.

    So the production facilities have been in the process of an upgrade around existing production, but they also are building new production facilities too.

    Sounds just fine... of course there will be delays upgrading a working factory that is building aircraft as you upgrade around them.

    - No. The PS-90A has been finalized, and our fellow engine engineers do not yet see the advisability of serious improvements. Yes, you can make it a little more economical, add a little thrust, but it’s not worth the required investment. If we carry out remotorization in the future, it will be with completely new engines.

    Which is what I was saying... no need to boost performance of the PS series engines, but make them and put them on the plane and the money and time spent upgrading them can be used later to replace them with PD type engines with better fuel economy and more thrust etc etc.

    Let me remind you that all of us together - both the UAC and the cooperation - will have to deliver 600 civil aircraft by 2030. There will be enough work and space in the market for everyone.

    Something they could not achieve if they cancel planes in production...

    As a result, it turned out that the control system for general aircraft equipment, which made it possible to implement the two-crew principle on the SM, was further developed in the MS-21, and today we, in fact, take it and modify it for ourselves.

    So the problems with flight engineers could be solved by adopting the two man crew cockpit of the MS-21...

    — At one time, KAZ had high hopes that it would be entrusted with the construction of the military transport Tu-330. Topic closed?

    - Today, yes. We are focused on fulfilling strategic, special and civil aviation missions.

    So today they are too busy to develop the Tu-330... a bit of a shame for the moment but rather positive for the Il-276 which should be quicker and easier to implement because it is essentially a smaller lighter Il-476 with two engines removed.

    Later down the track once Tupolevs are in military service in numbers it might be worth looking at the Tu-330 again as an aircraft between the Il-276 and Il-476, or perhaps an An-12 with much longer flight range potential (with the extra 15 tons being extra fuel).

    — Several years ago they spoke quite officially about military modifications of the Tu-214...

    “The airplane has such a future.”

    So confirmed the obsolete plane is going to be used by the military to replace existing types that are actually obsolete.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Feb 15, 2024 9:51 am

    The Tu-214 is much less obsolete than the Boeing 737, and it is way safer.

    And it is a great news to have back tupulev in the airliner Business.

    Probabile when the new version will come several problems will be solved. And yeah, eventually it can be used for cargo replacing many Boeing 737 in that role.
    I doubt that the re-engined version will come before 2030, but even in that case it is not a big problem.

    And if now airbus a320 and Boeing 737 share the Russian narrow body market, in the future MC-21 (Yak-242?) and tu-214 could do the same.

    As far as the two tu-204SM in aviastar, if possible they should be put back into service, even if there is the issue with their foreign content.

    The tu-334 in Kazan can be kept as a museum piece.

    The tu-324, according to the other article, is planned to be taken by other firms..(aurus brand)...we will see.

    I am sorry to hear that the Tu-330 is currently paused, but it is understandable.

    There are a lot of things on which to concentrate, so it will take a few years before they can think about that.

    More than the il-276 I was thinking about the il-212.
    It will be smaller of course, but if it manages to have a payload at or above 12 tons it will be able to cover a part of the tasks of the An-12. For anything larger the il-76 exists. The hole in the middle between the two could be covered after all the critical civilian projects have been implemented. Ilyushin should not even think at the il-276 until the il-212 is in service.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:47 pm


    https://m.business-gazeta.ru/article/622881


    It was decided to use the Tu-324 aircraft project as the basis for creating Russia's first specialized business jet. The aircraft will become part of the Aurus transport line





    Full article below, automatically translated from Russian.


    “Tatar” jet: the “unfinished” Tu-324 will be turned into a flying Aurus
    Gazprom structures are involved in the creation of the aircraft for which Minnikhanov fought for years

    The reincarnation of once stalled aircraft manufacturing programs continues. Designed in the late 90s by order of the government of Tatarstan, the Tu-324 aircraft will become the basis for the creation of a business jet of the Aurus transport line. What’s interesting is that the topic will be hosted not by Tupolev or the UAC at all, but by one of Gazprom’s companies. Why the raw materials giant became interested in the aviation industry and why a winged limousine was needed in our difficult times, the BUSINESS Online correspondent found out.

    When we say Aurus, do we mean Gazprom?
    It was decided to use the Tu-324 aircraft project as the basis for creating Russia’s first specialized business jet, sources in the aviation industry told BUSINESS Online. The aircraft will become part of the Aurus transport line. What is noteworthy is that it will not be developed by Tupolev or any other company of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), but by Gazprom, which is creating a design bureau for this purpose. BUSINESS Online invited Tupolev, UAC and Gazprom to comment on this information, but at the time the article was published, it did not receive an answer to its questions. Advisor to the Prime Minister of Tatarstan Nazir Kireev , who today remains the director of the management group for the creation of the Tu-324 aircraft under the Cabinet of Ministers of the Republic of Tatarstan, did not comment either (as it turns out, no one canceled the Russian government’s decree on the development of the aircraft), explaining only details of a historical and technical nature.

    The most intriguing part of the sources’ information is about Gazprom. What does a gas monopolist have to do with it? Meanwhile, recently it has been increasingly mentioned in connection with Aurus vehicles. Last May, the gas monopoly, the Ministry of Industry and Trade and the United Shipbuilding Corporation signed an agreement of intent to cooperate in the implementation of the Aurus-Marine project - the creation of a premium class vessel. Last October, Vedomosti sources reported that the raw materials giant could enter the capital (and receive up to 40%) of the luxury car manufacturer. Allegedly, a fundamental decision on this has already been made at the government level. The reason is that the project needs investment.

    The aviation industry theme can also be traced in the activities of Alexey Miller ’s company . In March 2023, Gazprom Tech LLC was created in St. Petersburg, owned by two wholly owned subsidiaries of Gazprom - Gazprom Capital LLC and Gazprom Gasoilproduct Holding LLC. In September, Gazprom Tech became the owner of Aurus-Aero LLC, which was established in July 2022 by the investment and venture fund of Tatarstan (share - 950 thousand rubles) and a wholly owned subsidiary of UAC - Oak-Resource LLC (50 thousand .). The main activity is the production of helicopters, airplanes and other aircraft.

    Despite the unimpressive authorized capital of 10 thousand rubles, Gazprom Tech is positioned as a company created “to consolidate high-tech assets in the shipbuilding, aviation and automotive industries, as well as radio electronics, space and other activities. It is indicated that it is “implementing a long-term development program that includes the creation, implementation and improvement of innovative production projects and technologies.”

    On the HeadHunter portal, the company posted information that it was looking for a head of the department for the production and cooperation of aviation equipment, a head of the department for aircraft design, and a head of the department for avionics and aircraft systems. According to our sources, the program will be conducted by a team that, on the Russian side, participated in the creation of the Russian-Chinese wide-body CR929. As you know, in 2023 our country withdrew from the project, otherwise Western manufacturers refused to participate in it. Last summer, China introduced the aircraft as its own development, COMAC Wide-Body.

    Our interlocutors did not talk about the extent to which the developments once made on the Tu-324 will be preserved, but they believe that it will be significant. According to them, the project was chosen for two reasons: first, a solid foundation; the second is the only thing that Russia already has in terms of the required size.

    Aborted takeoff

    The history of the Tu-324 is unusual, if only because the customer of this aircraft was a constituent entity of the Russian Federation. “After in 1993, Boris Yeltsin announced to the team of KAPO named after Gorbunov ( today the Kazan Aircraft Plant - a branch of Tupolev, KAZ - editor's note ) about his decision to stop purchasing Tu-22M3 and Tu-160, the situation of the enterprise became catastrophic , recalls Kireev. — There was an urgent need to resolve the issue of loading it. The Tupolev Design Bureau, as has been customary since the time of Andrei Nikolaevich, had developments on promising aircraft. Then, at our joint request with the bureau, the Gromov Flight Research Institute conducted a study [on] what kind of aircraft airlines needed in the near future. It showed that from 2000 a machine will be needed to replace the Yak-40 and Tu-134, the flight life of which will be exhausted by this time. The Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute confirmed this conclusion.”

    There was no money to create the aircraft, and they decided to earn it by selling oil abroad (the details of the scheme were not disclosed). Mintimer Shaimiev conveyed this idea to Boris Yeltsin , and he approved it. As a result, according to open data, approximately $100 million was invested in the design of the Tu-324 (the total development program was estimated at $330 million).

    In 1997, the project directorate created by the Cabinet of Ministers of the Republic of Tatarstan entered into an agreement with the general developer, Tupolev, and, according to his proposal, with the developers of units and on-board equipment. Software was purchased specifically for the project for Tupolev and specialists were trained in Germany. The Tu-324 became the first aircraft in Russia designed digitally. “Tupolev coped with the task perfectly and survived for almost three years thanks to the republic’s order,” says Kireev. — The Tu-324 project is a family of three modifications: passenger, with a range of 2.5 thousand kilometers and a capacity of 52 passengers; VIP, with a range of up to 7 thousand and a capacity of 19 people; for 72 passengers, with a range of up to 3.5 thousand kilometers. They differ in the length of the fuselage, and the modification for 72 passengers has a more powerful engine and an increased wing and tail area... By the way, the Russian government’s decree on the implementation of the project is still in effect today (see Kireev’s full commentary below - editor’s note ).”

    KMPO, Ukrainian Progress and Motor Sich used their own money to develop the Ai-22 engine specifically for the Tu-324 over 2.5 years. Ukrainians managed to get interested in a potentially huge series. Three prototypes were produced... Also, on the instructions of the Republic of Tatarstan, the Research Institute of Aviation Equipment (Zhukovsky) developed avionics (later it was installed on the Be-200 amphibian).

    As a result, the working documentation was transferred to KAZ, and the production of equipment and tools began. Shaimiev stated: if there is help from the federal center, it is realistic to begin deliveries of the Tu-324 in 2007. But mutual understanding with Moscow was never achieved. “A lot has been done on the Tu-324,” Nail Khairullin, general director of KAPO, told BUSINESS Online at the time . — The engine is almost ready for production, and its production near the aircraft plant would be a very big advantage. There were completers. Production began at KAPO. About $100 million was spent on the development of the project. It would be a cool car. It was simply blasphemy for the state to throw this money away!”

    There are at least two versions of why the project was stopped. Khairullin is sure that this was done to please Superjet, which was then also seen as a regional aircraft. The BUSINESS Online source believes that some people really did not want to preserve the plant capable of building strategic missile carriers.

    Minnikhanov, Tu-324 and Aurus
    Subsequently, the topic came up several times - mainly through the efforts of the President of the Republic of Tatarstan Rustam Minnikhanov . One gets the feeling that for him the promotion of the Tu-324 has become a matter of principle.

    In April 2015, Rossiyskaya Gazeta published an interview with him, in which he made a number of proposals for the revival of the aviation industry, and one of the main topics was the Tu-324. When asked whether it was possible to return to the project, Minnikhanov replied: “We can no longer leave regional lines without such an aircraft and continue to get to neighboring regions through Moscow, as is being done now. It is no coincidence that the Tu-134 and Yak-40 aircraft, which the Tu-324 should replace, have produced a total of more than 1.8 thousand units... Analogs of the Tu-324 remain widely in demand... More than 70 units of Brazilian and Canadian “regionals” alone have already been imported to Russia.

    In May 2016, Russian President Vladimir Putin said the same thing : “We know how difficult it is to deliver passengers in the Far East, Eastern Siberia, and within regions. Often people have to fly to nearby, neighboring regions via Moscow or St. Petersburg. This is completely unacceptable. It creates difficulties for people and for the economy as a whole... In this sense, our own regional aircraft, especially with the ability to land and take off from unpaved strips, is of great importance to us. At one time, we had a lot of such aircraft, they were widely used, but they are all outdated... You can, of course, purchase this equipment by import, as we have done until now, but for a country like ours, of course, you need your own aircraft.” In response, the Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation Denis Manturov said that there are three main options (all turboprops) - the Russian Il-114, the Ukrainian An-140 and the Chinese MA-700.

    The official also mentioned the Tu-324. “It was not put into further work due to the fact that we devoted all the main, so to speak, resources to the MC-21, while this aircraft remained in development,” he noted.

    But even then the matter ended in nothing, including for the Il-114 (by the way, a development in the 80s). Today, in the promising UAC line, it is the only candidate for the role of a regional aircraft. But at the end of 2023, it became clear that if the car appeared in hardware, it would not be earlier than 2026.

    Let's move on. In 2017, Minnikhanov addressed Putin with a letter about the need to complete preparations for production and begin production of the Tu-324. This was motivated not only by the transport needs of the country, but also by the need to keep the plant in good shape to restore production of the Tu-160 (the decision on this was made in 2015). The President of Russia assessed the project as “necessary” and asked for relevant proposals. History is silent about what happened next, but almost simultaneously there was a leak in one of the federal publications that the leadership of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation notified Putin about the inexpediency of continuing work on the Tu-324.

    Finally, in 2022, after the start of the SVO and the cessation of supplies of imported aircraft to the Russian Federation, Minnikhanov (who by this time had also become the chairman of the board of directors of Tupolev) proposed launching the production of not only the Tu-214, but also the Tu-324 (and also Tu-204SM and Tu-334). And it is possible that now this idea has been looked at more closely.

    Let us note an interesting trend: Tatarstan is becoming increasingly attached to the Aurus theme. In 2021, Aurus Senat began to be produced in Yelabuga, and Aurus Komendant in 2022. In 2019, the Kazan Helicopter Plant presented the Ansat Aurus, a helicopter with a luxury cabin. It was assumed that officials at various levels and government-related businesses would be transferred to it from foreign vehicles.

    Where is political will going?
    The main technical problem with the reincarnation of the project can be called the lack of an engine. “The Tu-324 Aurus topic is stillborn,” says one of our interlocutors. “There are no engines yet, which means there is no plane.” Khairullin recalled that the documentation for the AI-22 was not completely transferred to Russia at that time, and the PD-8, which is currently being developed for Superjet, is redundant for the Tu-324. “In general, if I were the initiators of the project, I would remember the Tu-334,” suggested the former head of KAZ. — Firstly, it is already certified. Secondly, it can provide a more comfortable interior. And thirdly, Ufa received all the documentation for the D-436 engine.” But Kireev has no doubt that there are options for developing the AI-22 theme, the developments for which are already being used in Russia.

    But all these considerations fade into the background before the question of why it was necessary to create a business jet now. The specialized community was also somewhat surprised by this turn. “Under the conditions of sanctions pressure, the main problem of the domestic business aviation market is the shortage of aircraft,” Dmitry Petrochenko, head of the BizavNews portal, told BUSINESS Online . “But even in this situation, there are schemes for purchasing aircraft from abroad. There are small volumes of imports, and every month more and more new options are being tried, which allows, although in small quantities, to still satisfy demand. In addition, it is possible to purchase Western-made aircraft on the secondary market. And then, users of such machines are very pragmatic, and the new type will inevitably have childhood illnesses, plus the lack of specialized maintenance and repair centers will not add bonuses.

    And one more thing: the current fleet of foreign jets is very young by market standards, and aircraft with RA registration are completely illiquid abroad. This means that the owners will use them for a long time, and maintenance problems can still be solved.”

    “The appearance of a new member in the Aurus line is more of an image story,” sums up the expert. — Most likely, his niche is government agencies, state-owned companies. In any case, I think that here we are not dealing with a “strong economic project,” but with political will.” To some extent, this explains the words of our original source that “Gazprom received the command to deal with such a topic from the president.” Let us recall that there has already been one image experiment in this area - in 2021, the public was shown the Aurus Business Jet, made on the basis of the Superjet 100. But this is still a remake of a serial commercial aircraft, and not a machine originally created as a business jet.

    One of our sources agrees with the political will thesis, but in a slightly different way. He does not exclude that the topic of a business jet is only a prologue to the resumption of the regional jet program. The country still cannot manage without such a machine, our interlocutor is sure. And he explains the removal of the topic beyond the scope of Rostec by the company’s workload with the production of long-haul aircraft, as well as an experiment in changing the contractor .

    The version has a right to exist. As we remember, the Tu-214, which today claims to be one of the saviors of the Russian civilian fleet, was preserved as a type only thanks to corporate orders - from the administration of the President of the Russian Federation, the special services, and the military. Why shouldn’t this story repeat itself with the Tu-324?


    So at the moment they want first to develop the business jet version of the Tu-324, (previously called the Tu-324A) under the aurus brand.

    The regional jet can be a parallel development under tupulev brand.

    The issue about the engine were already discussed in another thread.

    Basically Russia already produces (Salyut in Moscow area) the low bypass turbofan derivative of the AI-22, the AI-222 of the Yak-130, and has a modernisation/derivative (the SM-100) in advanced development, for which high bypass versions for very large drones and regional jets were already discussed.

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    Post  lancelot Sat Feb 17, 2024 3:30 pm

    They claim this will be designed by engineers who used to be involved in the CR929 project. Hopefully they will use new materials like a carbon composite wing on the aircraft.

    This has the potential to be a replacement for the Yak-40, Bombardier, and Embraer aircraft. Russia has a huge territory. So a high speed airplane which can operate from smaller airports is necessary. A turboprop aircraft will operate at like half the speed. Compare the speed of the Let L-410 (405 kph) vs an ATR-72 (510 kph) vs a CRJ-200 (786 kph).

    Of course such an aircraft will also be helpful for business travelers. My guess is they are aiming at business travelers to begin with because they want to gather the capital for development of the aircraft from the private sector rather than the government. Still a 30-50 passenger aircraft is kind of large for most business travelers. But there are a lot of billionaires in Russia and some corporations in Russia need aircraft to transport technical personnel to faraway job sites.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sat Feb 17, 2024 4:26 pm

    lancelot wrote:They claim this will be designed by engineers who used to be involved in the CR929 project. Hopefully they will use new materials like a carbon composite wing on the aircraft.

    This has the potential to be a replacement for the Yak-40, Bombardier, and Embraer aircraft. Russia has a huge territory. So a high speed airplane which can operate from smaller airports is necessary. A turboprop aircraft will operate at like half the speed. Compare the speed of the Let L-410 (405 kph) vs an ATR-72 (510 kph) vs a CRJ-200 (786 kph).

    Of course such an aircraft will also be helpful for business travelers. My guess is they are aiming at business travelers to begin with because they want to gather the capital for development of the aircraft from the private sector rather than the government. Still a 30-50 passenger aircraft is kind of large for most business travelers. But there are a lot of billionaires in Russia and some corporations in Russia need aircraft to transport technical personnel to faraway job sites.

    Well the Gulfstream G650 is also a business jet for up to 19 passengers only, and has basically comparable sizes to a SSJ-100.

    The tu-324A and Tu-414A more or less cover the niches  between the smaller Gulfstream G280 (or bombardier challenger 650) and the Gulfstream G550 or bombardier global express, even if the latter two have a longer range than the tu-414a.

    As said before, the Tu-414 could be also competitive as regional jet and probably more optimised than the proposed Shortened version of the superjet, which would better benefit instead of a new longer version (130–140 seat stretch with composite wings) to compete with the airbus A220.

    And there is market in Russia for such aircraft (tu-414).
    In April 2018 S7 Group signed a letter of intent for 75 Superjet 75 (yes 75 aircrafts in the shortened version of the SSJ) that should have been delivered starting from 2022. Then as we all know it was cancelled, but it means anyway  that it niche that could be interesting for the russian market.

    It would be quite good for Russia to have then

    Tu-324 (50-56 passengers (2+2 seating configuration)
    Tu-414 (70-76 passengers) (2+2 seating configuration)
    SJ-100  (up to 108 passengers) (probably with a new yak  name) (3+2 seating configuration)
    SJ-100 stretch (130-140 passengers) (3+2 seating configuration)
    MC-21-200 (yak-242) up to 165 passengers in single class (3+3 seating configuration)
    MC-21-300 (up 211 passengers in single class)
    mC-21-400 (up to 230 passengers).

    Plus the turboprops

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    Post  lancelot Sat Feb 17, 2024 5:11 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Tu-324 (50-56 passengers (2+2 seating configuration)
    Tu-414 (70-76 passengers) (2+2 seating configuration)
    SJ-100  (up to 108 passengers) (probably with a new yak  name) (3+2 seating configuration)
    SJ-100 stretch (130-140 passengers) (3+2 seating configuration)
    MC-21-200 (yak-242) up to 165 passengers in single class (3+3 seating configuration)
    MC-21-300 (up 211 passengers in single class)
    mC-21-400 (up to 230 passengers).
    The thing is the Superjet 75 would be way easier to design than the Superjet 130.
    The Superjet 75 would likely use a detuned PD-8 engine. The Superjet 130 would likely need the PD-10.
    The only reason the Superjet 75 was not designed was that the Russified Superjet 95 was given priority.

    But it might still make sense to have the longer Tu-414 even with a Superjet 75. Because the Superjet cannot operate on all airports. Due to FOD injection because of its low mounted engines. Still given Russia's massive spend upgrading its airports I doubt the Tu-414 will get developed.

    Another aircraft which might get developed would be a long range MC-21-400LR variant with PD-18R engines. This would use a larger bypass geared turbofan version of PD-14M. It likely could be developed by Kuznetsov since they worked on the NK-93.

    Russia needs very long range aircraft because of Western sanctions on Russian transport aircraft.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:25 pm

    I understand that a shortened version of the SJ could be easier to design, but it would still need a few years (4 to 5) to be developed, put into service and delivered to the airlines.

    And a derated version of PD-8 (albeit with fuselage side installation) would be also the engine to consider for a tu-414.

    The shortened SJ-75 would look too "fat" and short. Something that would remind a bit the Tu-334 (which has a shortened fuselage from the Tu-204).

    In comparison the tu-414 looks way nicer.

    For the same reasons actually I would prefer the stretched version of the SJ.
    I know that a superjet 130 would need a more powerful engine... maybe an uprated version of the PD-8 core, paired with a new larger fan.

    Possibly brand new wings (and new landing gear) could help about the low ground clearance of the engines

    Anyway they could think about that after PD-8 and all the needed PD-14 variants/derivatives are in service.

    I agree on the MC-21-400LR. Unfortunately I was not able to find any recent info about the PD-18R.

    That engine could be also interesting for another abandoned project from Tupulev, the Tu-304, a short to medium range widebody with an oval fuselage, later reproposed under the name of frigate ecojet.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Feb 18, 2024 3:36 am

    I am sorry to hear that the Tu-330 is currently paused, but it is understandable.

    They need to focus on airliners for now of course, but in 5 or 10 years time with lots of Tupolevs in use it will just make sense to develop a new transport based on its design so I think paused is the correct word... which is actually more promising than what we have heard to now which was nothing or cancelled.

    More than the il-276 I was thinking about the il-212.

    The attractiveness of the Il-276 is that a factory that makes Il-476 could make either, so right now to make a lot of ll-476s adding a few extra factories could boost production rates significantly, but normally that would be a bad idea because once you get production up you end up with factories sitting idle or not operating efficiently because there were not as many orders as you hoped.

    Adding Il-276 orders means you can boost the number of factories and shift production from one type to the other as needed... I rather suspect a jet powered An-12 would be in demand because the main problems with the C-130 was its low speed and flying through weather rather than over it...

    If they move the engines above the wings like the An-72 and Il-212 then it will be good for short and rough airstrips too.

    It will be smaller of course, but if it manages to have a payload at or above 12 tons it will be able to cover a part of the tasks of the An-12. For anything larger the il-76 exists. The hole in the middle between the two could be covered after all the critical civilian projects have been implemented. Ilyushin should not even think at the il-276 until the il-212 is in service.

    Well, I actually agree that the Il-212 should be a high priority too because if they make it right it can fill the gap of the An-72 and the An-24/25/26, and also the Il-112s cargo role.

    Later, when more suitable prop engines become available it might be worth looking at an Il-112X, but I rather suspect the 212 could fill that role too with upper surface blowing jet engines for short runway and rough runway ops.


    Last edited by GarryB on Mon Feb 19, 2024 3:22 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixed from An-112 to Il-112.)

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Feb 18, 2024 11:10 am

    In the next 2 posts some interesting notes (separate sections) from the same article from navaya gazeta I posted in post 483. They were too long to include in the previous post and they were more on the history of the Tu-324 project


    Nazir Kireev about the history of the Tu-324 project


    The emergence of the Tu-324 project, as well as the Tu-214 program, is a logical result of the republic’s leadership’s firm line on the unconditional preservation of mechanical engineering enterprises in the 90s. At that time, sectoral ministries were liquidated in the country, their centralized management ceased, and defense industry enterprises did not receive funds for supplied products for a long time. The leadership of Tatarstan was well aware of the importance of each of them in maintaining the country's defense capability. It was also necessary to prevent massive job losses. Repeated appeals to the government of the Russian Federation to resolve the growing avalanche of problems remained overwhelmingly unanswered, because the government itself was limited by the federal budget deficit. Russia then lived on IMF loans; there was a certain uncertainty at the top in terms of the directions for the further development of the state.

    For these reasons and because of the policy taken in the country to reduce the production of weapons, the republic developed a program for the development and production of civilian products at defense industry enterprises, for example, trolleybuses began to be produced at the same KAPO.

    The key issue at that time was the financing of enterprise projects. To solve this problem, various R&D-type funds were organized, but some projects were financed directly by Tatarstan. The republic, the only one in the country, managed to achieve the issuance of a unique decree of the Russian President on an investment tax credit, according to which 16 defense enterprises and KAMAZ were given the right to direct tax payments to the implementation of projects for the implementation of projects for the development of products intended for the market. Thanks to these and other measures (for example, the supply of food from Tatarstan bases to workers of enterprises who had not received wages for several months), Tatarstan, alone among all regions of the country, managed to preserve all defense enterprises.

    And of course, KAPO named after Gorbunov was under special attention of the leadership of the republic. Mintimer Sharipovich ( Mintimer Shaimiev , then President of Tatarstan - editor's note ) achieved the issuance of a decree from the Russian government on the development at this enterprise of a modification of the Tu-204 aircraft, which is replacing the mass-produced Tu-154. The Republic financed the development of documentation for the modification of the Tu-204,
    which is replacing the mass-produced Tu-154. The Republic financed the development of documentation for the modification of the Tu-204, which received the designation Tu-214, as well as many stages of its development at KAPO. After the construction of the first sample, Rustam Nurgalievich ( Rustam Minnikhanov - President of Tatarstan, then Prime Minister of the Republic of Tatarstan - editor's note ) fully financed its state certification tests from the republic's budget. Since airlines did not have the funds to purchase aircraft, he organized the country’s first financial leasing company, which made it possible to purchase aircraft from KAPO and lease them to carriers.

    Sales of the Tu-214 were unwinding, but the Russian government passed regulations exempting Aeroflot from paying taxes and import duties on Boeing aircraft. It is clear that the market position of the Tu-214, which did not receive such privileges, became a losing one.

    After Yeltsin announced to the plant staff in 1993 his decision to stop purchasing Tu-22M3 and Tu-160, the situation at KAPO became catastrophic, since their share in the plant’s revenue was decisive. There was an urgent need to resolve the issue of the enterprise's capacity. The Tupolev Design Bureau, as has been the custom since the time of Andrei Nikolaevich, had developments on promising aircraft. At our request, the Gromov Flight Research Institute conducted a study [on] which aircraft from the entire model range will be required by airlines in the near future. It showed that from 2000 they will need a car to replace the Yak-40 and Tu-134. The Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute confirmed this conclusion.

    Communicating with the KAPO team, Boris Nikolaevich, among other things, said that there was no need to rely on funds from the budget for new projects. The development and development of the Tu-324 required $300 million. Representatives of 6 Russian banks that I invited to Kazan reported that they would not be able to finance the project. As a result, the idea proposed by one of the invitees to earn money for the project by obtaining permission to access the export oil pipeline was implemented. Oil purchased on the domestic market was sent abroad, and the resulting margin was used to implement the project.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Feb 18, 2024 11:12 am

    And here the second editor's note from that article:


    Nazir Kireev about the main stages of the Tu-324 project


    The Tu-324 project directorate, created under the Cabinet of Ministers of Tatarstan, used the funds raised in this way to order the development of an aircraft from the Tupolev Design Bureau, the basic model of which was designated Tu-324. The directorate concluded about 40 agreements with the design organizations selected by the bureau for the development of on-board systems and components. The terms of reference for the development were approved by the directorate; the key condition was to develop the project in digital technologies. To ensure that this requirement is met, the OKB purchased several million dollars worth of software similar to those used in Airbus Industry, powerful servers, graphic stations, and computers. We also financed the training of specialists in Germany to support the purchased programs.

    The Tupolev team coped with the task perfectly. The design of the Tu-324 uses the developments of TsAGI, obtained as a result of major scientific research in aerodynamics, and provides for the use of materials created by VIAM scientists. The preliminary design of the Tu-324 was successfully defended before the state commission, after which working documentation was developed, which was then transferred to KAPO. Factory workers quickly developed 36 thousand technological processes, of which 16 thousand were immediately transferred to production. We produced about 1 thousand units of parts and components for equipment and aircraft. By the way, software products and CNC machines were also purchased for KAPO, including two Gemcor riveting machines capable of riveting large wing and fuselage panels.

    The Zhukovsky Research Institute also coped well with the directorate’s order and promptly developed the IK-324 avionics - the first in the country that allows a crew of two pilots to control the aircraft. Installed with our permission on the Be-200 aircraft, it has been successfully certified according to Russian and European standards.

    The Tu-324 project was the only one being developed in those years, and everyone was happy about it. ZMKB Progress, JSC Motor Sich and the Kazan Engine Production Association showed particular interest. They came up with a joint initiative to develop an engine for the Tu-324 at their own expense. As a result, they developed, mastered and produced three prototypes of the high-bypass turbojet engine Ai-22.

    The engine worked on the stand for more than a thousand hours, showing parameters close to the declared ones. I would like to especially note the contribution of Alexander Filippovich Pavlov, who headed the KMPO. He organized the work in such a way that the engine was released in just 2.5 years.

    Tu-324 is a family of three modifications: passenger, with a range of 2.5 thousand kilometers, with a capacity of 52 passengers; VIP, with a service range of up to 7 thousand kilometers; The 72-passenger modification has an increased fuselage length, a more powerful engine and an increased wing and tail area.

    The reasons for the suspension of the Tu-324 project require a separate discussion, but the decree of the government of the Russian Federation on its implementation is still in force today. Russian President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin instructed to include the Tu-324 project in the federal target program for the development of civil aviation equipment in Russia, and most recently assessed the project as “necessary.” Meanwhile, in the program for the construction of civil aircraft until 2030 presented to the country’s leadership, there is no regional jet passenger aircraft for flights similar to those carried out by the Yak-40 and Tu-134 aircraft. In 1990, there were 598 and 352 of them in Aeroflot’s fleet, respectively. Regional aircraft with turbojet engines at ranges of over 1 thousand kilometers are no longer inferior to turboprops in fuel consumption and, with an increase in flight distance, can reduce the flight time by up to two times. Such vehicles are especially in demand at ranges of over 1.5 thousand kilometers. Another feature of the Tu-324 family is the ability to replace mainline airliners during winter periods of decline in passenger traffic.

    Actually it should be 4 modifications, as both the Tu-324 and the tu-414 (version with longer fuselage, modified wing and tail area and more powerful engines) were supposed to have a VIP/ longer range corporate business jet version.

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    Post  lancelot Sun Feb 18, 2024 2:34 pm

    The reason for Yeltsin dropping the import tax on Boeing aircraft is fairly well known. Russia was trying to import Pratt & Whitney turbofan engines for the Il-96. This was supposed to be done with a loan from the US Exim Bank. But US Congress blocked the deal claiming unfair trade restrictions on Boeing aircraft. So basically Yeltsin made purchases of some US Boeing 767 aircraft by Aeroflot tax exempt to get the US loan for the engines. But the US just blocked the loan again claiming sales of Boeing 737 aircraft to Aeroflot should also be tax exempt. Aviadvigatel, which makes the PS-90 engine, basically went bankrupt and was purchased by Pratt & Whitney.

    Pratt & Whitney was expected to basically close down the factory when they got it. But they worked on improving engine lifetime with Aviadvigatel by adding Western components to it. This led to the PS-90A2 engine. But since no aircraft were purchased with the engine anyway, later Pratt & Whitney divested from Aviadvigatel and it is once again owned by the Russian state.

    So the truth that these people don't tell you is that the Tu-204 and Il-96 were basically developed when the Soviet Union collapsed. The economy was basically crippled and it was very difficult to finish tests and start initial production. The PS-90 engines in particular were in a really raw state and had very low engine lifetime.

    Of course this could have been solved with enough money and time. But back then the Russian government was on IMF loans and didn't have money to fund much of anything.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Feb 19, 2024 2:47 pm

    About the engine for the Tu-324.
    Since I read in many western articles (but also in the russian  forum topwar.ru that believes that everything in their country is crap and that all authorities still want to destroy Russia) that Russia cannot build the engine, I checked a few more info.

    According to this article OJSC KMPO (Kazan Motor Production association) was responsible for the producing the low-pressure compressor with a fan, a low-pressure turbine, a rear support with a mixer and stacker, transmission units (KPMA, KSA, c/drive), a middle support, engine mounting units, oil system units (oil tank, oil unit, centrifugal breather etc.). So it should be still possible to produce those parts in Kazan.

    Possibly those could be paired with the high pressure compressor, combustion chamber and single stage high pressure turbine of the AI-222 (produced in Russia by Salyut). AI-222 itself is a low bypass derivative of the AI-22, used on thr Yak-130.

    Otherwise a new core for the Tu-324 engine can be derived by either the AI-222 or by the SM-100 (new development/replacement for the AI-222, which Saljut is developing).

    PD-8 is also being developed in a similar way, as a new core is being paired with the SaM146 cold part.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20090713030210/http://trade.tatcenter.ru/flagman/tu324/ai-22.htm


    ORGANIZATION OF PRODUCTION AND COOPERATION OF AI-22 ENGINE
    The AI-22 engine was created in cooperation of four enterprises: ZMKB Progress, OJSC Motor Sich, OJSC KMPO (Kazan Motor Production association) and KAPO im. S.P. Gorbunov on concluded Agreements and Treaties.

    Congratulations on the first successful launch of the AI-22 engine (2002)
    Congratulations on the first successful launch of the AI-22 engine (2002)
    ZMKB "Progress" manufactures parts and components of external piping (pipelines, pipes, fittings, self-made units, cable plan), performs final engine assembly, prepares test benches, tests and overhauls of engines, and also conducts experimental, development and special tests and certification work.

    Motor Sich OJSC manufactures a high-pressure compressor, a combustion chamber, a high-pressure turbine, an air starter, an air separator, a starting valve and an air bypass valve, incoming parts for piping pipelines, and fasteners for engine assembly.

    OJSC "KMPO" manufactures a low-pressure compressor with a fan, a low-pressure turbine, a rear support with a mixer and stacker, transmission units (KPMA, KSA, c/drive), a middle support, engine mounting units, oil system units (oil tank, oil unit, centrifugal breather etc.), and also purchases purchased components manufactured in the Russian Federation.

    KAPO im. S.P. Gorbunova manufactures thrust reversers, jet nozzles, and hoods (shells with noise-attenuation panels).

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Mon Feb 19, 2024 3:50 pm

    A slightly weaker PD-8 is the best solution tor the Tu-324.
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    Post  lancelot Mon Feb 19, 2024 4:25 pm

    The PD-8 would be too large for the 52 passenger version. But could work for the 72 passenger one.

    The high-bypass Al-222 or SM-100 derivative is what makes the most sense but it would need funding to be provided. In the meantime the aircraft prototypes could use some Western engine as a placeholder.

    A Yak-40 can be used as the test aircraft for the engine prototype.

    Given the current huge workload of the aviation sector working on the new Russian civilian transport aircraft I doubt there is much wiggle room to develop yet another engine right now.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:50 pm

    lancelot wrote:The PD-8 would be too large for the 52 passenger version. But could work for the 72 passenger one.

    The high-bypass Al-222 or SM-100 derivative is what makes the most sense but it would need funding to be provided. In the meantime the aircraft prototypes could use some Western engine as a placeholder.

    A Yak-40 can be used as the test aircraft for the engine prototype.

    Given the current huge workload of the aviation sector working on the new Russian civilian transport aircraft I doubt there is much wiggle room to develop yet another engine right now.

    A  derated PD-8 would be the engine of choice for the Tu-414 (or for the SJ-75), not for the tu-324.

    Actually the Tu-414 was originally imagined as powered by the Rolls Royce Deutschland BR710 engine, which has almost 7 tons of thrust, against the about 4.2 tons of thrust of the AI-22.

    Apparently Gazprom is interested and is funding the Tu-324 program. And that means also the engine.

    Foreign engines are not a possibility. Furthermore there are no really new engines of this class. The only choices would be the old GE CF34 or the Rolls-Royce Nord America AE3007 (of the embraer ERJ family) (+ a never realised Honeywell HTF10000)

    Anyway, as written before all the cold part of the engine (Fan + 5 stages booster (LP compressor)) and many other systems were supposed to be build in the Kazan motor association and I believe were built there for the first prototypes 20 years ago.

    They are not going to start from scratches.

    Furthermore Saljut already published some presentations about proposed high bypass derivatives of AI-222 or SM-100 to be used in regional jets. They would fore sure appreciate the money (if Gazprom will pay for its development).

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    Post  lancelot Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:21 pm

    The SM-100 is kind of like the Ship of Theseus. The Al-222 engine was designed to be modular in the first place. And they are basically making a new engine by progressively replacing all the components in it. Replace the combustion chamber, high pressure section, low pressure section, and what is then left of the original engine?

    United Engine Corporation has demonstrated future SM-100 engine mockup for Yak-130M upgraded training and combat aircraft for the first time at the Army-2023 forum. The project will continue the development of baseline AI-222-25 engine. The new power unit will feature high performance with the same dimensions and weight, in particular, the maximum thrust grows by 20% and the service life is twice as long.

    The power unit is developed by Salyut manufacturing facility of United Engine Corporation.
    Performance improvement has been achieved due to increased compression ratio, state-of-the-art three-stage low pressure compressor, introduction of upgraded combustion sections and robust turbine. The low pressure compressor and turbine are currently undergoing bench test, while the combustion chamber is undergoing flight test. 
    Moreover, an upgraded high pressure compressor will be also tested in the nearest time. This component has become smaller and lighter and has lower manufacturing cost. A heavy-duty gearbox has been also developed for the upgraded engine in order to incorporate a generator drive whose rated power is twice as high as that of AI-222-25 baseline engine version.

    http://elements.rostec.ru/en/news/rostec-demonstrates-future-sm-100-aircraft-engine-for-the-first-time-at-the-army-2023/
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    Post  GarryB Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:31 am

    The high-bypass Al-222 or SM-100 derivative is what makes the most sense but it would need funding to be provided. In the meantime the aircraft prototypes could use some Western engine as a placeholder.

    Nah, they are making the engine for the Yak-130 with 20% extra engine power... which would make it powerful enough to be used on prototypes for the new plane.

    Even if they fitted two RD-33 engines with the after burner removed... that would make them about 5 tons thrust each, which would be too much, but obviously they could limit the power with some sort of engine control limiter, in which case it would do the job just fine.

    A Yak-40 can be used as the test aircraft for the engine prototype.

    Wasn't there a story about how they developed a composite wing for the Yak-40 and improved its performance considerably?

    I would say that this design of the Tupolev would massively benefit from a composite wing simply because the engines are attached to the tail so the wings are clean and it would be much easier to get a clean efficient wing shape boosting performance and reducing weight.


    Given the current huge workload of the aviation sector working on the new Russian civilian transport aircraft I doubt there is much wiggle room to develop yet another engine right now.

    the new engines are on their way... just a placeholder will do...

    Replace the combustion chamber, high pressure section, low pressure section, and what is then left of the original engine?

    Hahahaha... way to go... pretending a new engine design that is based on an older engine type but with a full and complete upgrade based on new materials and design is a bad thing.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:24 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Replace the combustion chamber, high pressure section, low pressure section, and what is then left of the original engine?

    Hahahaha... way to go... pretending a new engine design that is based on an older engine type but with a full and complete upgrade based on new materials and design is a bad thing.

    Exactly, western companies like GE, Pratt & Whitney or RR have done that as well.

    As an example the GE CF34 exists in several different variants with different fan sizes, different number of HP compressor stages and the presence or absence of a booster (a sort of small LP compressor which runs at the same speed as the fan).

    The original engine contained a single stage fan driven by a 4-stage low pressure (LP) turbine, supercharging a 14-stage HP compressor driven by a 2-stage high pressure (HP) turbine, with an annular combustor. Later higher thrust versions of the CF34 feature an advanced technology core, with only 10 HP compressor stages. Latest variants, the -10A and -10E, were derived from the CFM56 engine family and have a radically different HP spool, containing a 9-stage compressor driven by a single stage turbine. The LP spool has 3 core booster stages behind the fan. Static thrust is 82 kilonewtons (18,500 lbf) for the -10E variant.

    Furthermore the CF34 itself is a derivative of the TF34 engine of the A10 thunderbolt.

    Sometimes a new engine of the same class is made developing a new core (HP compressor, combustion chamber and HP turbine) and pairing it with an existing fan and LP system. In other cases you have a common core and developed 2 engines or (various version of the same engine name, even if they are actually different engines) by having some modification in the LP system (i.e. larger fan and or additional stages in the Booster/LP compressor) while the core runs a bit hotter.

    The same thing can be done in the opposite way. I.e. you have an engine for a regional jet with a certain thrust and you want to have an engine with 10/ 20% less thrust.

    Sometimes the same core can be kept and you change only the LP system. Of course the more powerful engines needs to run hotter, so in the less powerful engine variant you could also replace the material of the last stages of the HP compressor and of the HP turbine with a less expensive superalloy. It will be still a nickel superalloy but there is a lot of material investment and development for this kind of materials.

    If you can run the engine at slightly lower temperature in the less powerful engine, replacing the HP turbine with one with a less advanced superalloy can bring huge money savings.

    Finally Even PD-14 is an engine family with the same core and different LP systems.

    PD-14, PD14M, PD-18R.

    And the PD-8 Is exactly that. They developed a new core using the technology and a scaled design from the PD-14 and paired it with the existing LP system from the SaM146.

    Maybe in a few years they will do a new derivative of the PD-8 where they keep the same core but replace the older LP system...

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    Post  Scorpius Wed Feb 21, 2024 1:51 pm

    Russian Gazprom plans to develop a business jet under the Aurus brand based on the Tu-324 project.

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