Russian special military operation in Ukraine #23

zorobabel wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:When a man shits, he immediately releases the water...
The same should be done to the comments of Walle83, Arkhangelsk, Zorolabel (a scumbag who likes pictures of Nazis), Azi and the like. Well done Arkhangelsk - you have wonderful friends now and you have completely destroyed your credibility..
ZOROLABEL, remove the picture of the Russian plane from your profile - it's not for you, you're dishonorable.

In fact, everything I posted was just repeated in the latest post by Wargonzo. https://t.me/wargonzo/8212

I guess he is a pro-Ukraine tool as well?

Pull your head out of your ass and realize what is happening.

Erk wrote:PCR is very critical of the Kremlin, most of his points are accurate.

The main advantage Russia has over Ukraine, are vastly higher population from which to form armies, and a functioning Military Industrial Complex.

So, a win should be possible based on those two things alone.

I am still confounded why Russia do nothing about the import of NATO weapons, and official without interruption into Ukraine.

Podlodka77 wrote:You've screwed up your career on this forum because you and your ilk will always be seen as a fifth columnist (at best) after a Russian victory. Remove the image of Su-30, better post HIMARS or M777.
And now I'm going to turn on the water after this message, you already know why..

JohninMK wrote:Paul Craig Roberts has posted a rather different assessment of the Russian retreat (I get the impression that his point of view is being widely reflected within Russia at present)

"The Kremlin’s attempt to fight a war with minimal resources and no commitment to disrupt the government and functioning of Western Ukraine and the weapons flowing in from the US and NATO now brings the humiliation of having Ukrainian troops break through Russia’s thinly defended line in the Kharkov region of Eastern Ukraine.

I would be surprised if Russia, by far the superior power, doesn’t quickly regain control over the military situation in Donbass. But the Ukrainian success, no matter how limited or temporary, has doomed Putin’s “limited operation,” which, as I have emphasized, was doomed from the beginning.

It was doomed from the beginning by the Kremlin’s ridiculous assumption that Washington would permit the operation to be limited. The widening of the war was guaranteed. The fact that the war has widened is now understood by Russian TV hosts who say the proxy war in Ukraine between the US and Russia is over and Russia now faces a real direct war with the US and its NATO puppets. For Russia to continue in Ukraine, the Kremlin must fight a real war and knock out the government in Kiev and the governmental and civilian infrastructure that permits Ukraine to conduct war without Russian interference and which permits supply avenues for ever more dangerous Western weapons to be acquired by Ukraine. It is stunning that Putin thought he could drive Ukrainian troops out of Donbass and then sign an agreement ending the conflict.

The Ukrainian success in overrunning Russian positions will widen the war further. Europe’s enthusiasm which was waning will wax again, and Washington will up the provocations to increase the pressure on Putin. Neoconservatives will push for beefing up the US/NATO forces on Russia’s borders and trouble-making in former, but now independent, Russian provinces at the risk of convincing Russia that a broad scale invasion of Russia is being prepared while Russia is trapped in Ukraine. If this happens, it will light the fuse of nuclear war.

The Kremlin dropped the ball when the Kremlin permitted Washington to overthrow the Ukraine government and install a Russian-hating puppet. The Kremlin dropped the ball again when eight years ago the Kremlin let pass the opportunity to reincorporate Donbass into Russia, thus ending the conflict before it could begin. The Kremlin dropped the ball again when it launched a limited military operation confined to Donbass when what was called for was a lightning takedown of Ukraine before the West could respond.

What accounts for these strategic blunders by the Kremlin? I don’t know for sure. My speculation is that Putin was won over by globalism and has as his goal for Russia to be an accepted member of the West’s global order. This goal has imposed all sorts of restrictions on his range of action. Putin couldn’t accept the requests of the Donbass republics to be brought back home to Russia, because it would confirm the West’s propaganda that he intended to rebuild the Soviet empire. Putin couldn’t authorize a blitzkrieg conquest of Ukraine, because it would scare Europe into Washington’s arms forever. Putin has to operate within the confines of international law that Washington and NATO ignore in his effort to prove that Russia adheres to law and resorts to force only as a last resort.

Putin’ solution was agreements, such as the Minsk Agreement on which the Kremlin wasted eight years and the mutual security agreement the Kremlin attempted to get from Washington and NATO prior to the limited operation in Ukraine. Why so much emphasis on agreements even while the Kremlin rightfully complained endlessly of Washington breaking every agreement? It suggests that the Kremlin’s overriding goal has been to have Russia have its rightful place in the Western system, which left the Kremlin reactive, having denied itself a proactive policy of targeting its enemy.

To have such an unrealistic goal requires ignoring the Wolfowitz Doctrine of US Hegemony. It requires ignoring that the massive power and budget of the US military/security complex requires Russia as America’s #1 enemy. It was Trump’s goal of normalizing relations with Russia that brought about President Trump’s downfall. In the face of such powerful evidence as Trump’s demise, how was it possible for the Kremlin to hold on to its delusions and continue to speak of “our Western partners?”

In many ways Putin is a great leader and a man of peace, but he has seriously miscalculated the real situation. His tolerance of insults and provocations has encouraged more, and the provocations are on the verge of initiating a war that will destroy the Western world."

ucmvulcan wrote:Not a defeatist, but just an innocent question.  Why doesn't Russia do a temporary troop surge of say up to 200,000 to drive the Ukes out of Donestks, take the rest of Zaprozhiye and liberate Kharkov, and simultaneously launch airstrikes to knock out Ukraine's government, intel, and military leadership, hit all bridges and rail junctions across the Dniepr and dielectrify the country? Wicken, Blanken, and Nod and Eurotrash leaders should not be able to so easily make it to Kiev.  I get it, the Kiev op was designed to tie down forces so LPR and DPR could be liberated and the Kherson and Zaprozhiye corridors seized, but losing Kharkhov, while not leading to casualties, does only encourage the west and Ukraine and this has to be stopped.

zorobabel wrote:[q forum, and the likes or dislikes do not concern me, as interesting as they may be for some. I have been right in everything I have said in the past 3 days, despite constant attacks. In fact my comments are not nearly the level of doomerism now being spread on RU military accounts on Telegram. I gather from the last page or two that there are still some that think the Kharkov front collapse is part of a Russian MoD 5D chess masterplan? Lmao

Unwillingness to learn from mistakes leads to the repetition of the same mistakes. Were lessons learned from the first phase of the war? Can you invade a country of 40 million and control an area the size of England with 100,000 troops? Looks like, possibly, no.

lyle6 wrote:

ucmvulcan wrote:Not a defeatist, but just an innocent question.  Why doesn't Russia do a temporary troop surge of say up to 200,000 to drive the Ukes out of Donestks, take the rest of Zaprozhiye and liberate Kharkov, and simultaneously launch airstrikes to knock out Ukraine's government, intel, and military leadership, hit all bridges and rail junctions across the Dniepr and dielectrify the country? Wicken, Blanken, and Nod and Eurotrash leaders should not be able to so easily make it to Kiev.  I get it, the Kiev op was designed to tie down forces so LPR and DPR could be liberated and the Kherson and Zaprozhiye corridors seized, but losing Kharkhov, while not leading to casualties, does only encourage the west and Ukraine and this has to be stopped.

Because in the 6 months of the SMO they have permanently crippled the West's economies much worse than the strategic bombing campaigns did the Reich.
They don't want this to stop and they have all the means to turn this into a recurring nightmare for the West for decades if need be.

Broski wrote:Well, after scrolling through a further 14 pages of mostly horse shit, I must say that I have a newfound respect for the power of Western propaganda. I can see why the US gives billions of dollars to various media conglomerates and "independents" across the world, and the reason is... because people are fucking idiots.

I probably shouldn't laugh at the Ukrainians who fight for the their cocaine snorting, homosexual, clown President and "EU values" when just across the border, equally gullible people are calling for regime change in their own country because foreign news outlets said that Ukraine is winning again so we need to replace  Putin with navalny. I can't blame Ukrainians for being easily deceived, manipulated and led to slaughter when so many "Pro-Russians" are screeching for a mass mobilization of conscripts to fill up the front lines which would lead to 10x more Russian KIA's than there currently are now, and for what? To deny the Ukraine cheap PR victories? So Russia doesn't look bad in front of people who never liked them anyway?

Demilitarization and Denazification.

Not holding on to every inch of territory gained... that's what the Ukraine does, that's why they lose anywhere between 300 and 1000+ troops a day. 

How many videos have we watched of Ukrainians huddled together like sheep in shallow trenches, abandoned houses and under trees just to see them absolutely shredded by Russian artillery? Yet we don't see the same from Russia. 

I have one last question for everyone here complaining about Russian military tactics, if you were in balakleya and 9000 Banderites was about to enter the village, would you rather be ordered to stay and fight to the death while heavily outnumbered  or ordered to retreat to a secure position?

billybatts91 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

PhSt wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Rather than taking your frustration over a phantom defeat out on the whole nation, take it out on the Nazis with guns. In fact all armed Ukrainian forces are legitimate targets. Plenty to choose from. Some juicy mercenaries along with them. And destroying them will actually end the war, not targeting power plants that Russia will just have to rebuild anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fair and reasonable person, but from my observation, this "Humanitarian" tactic by Russia is not helping them win this war. I don't know about you, but for me ANY type of method is acceptable as long as the Ends are met.

What if those methods are having to pull back to fight another day?

Ever thought of that?

That's what clowns like you said when they retreated from Kiev. Kharkov is lost.

caveat emptor wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Did Gerasimov tell you that?
Or was it Dvornikov who confided his plans to you?

It is easy for you to be cynical. You're sitting somewhere in Питер while pro-Russian civilians and Russian soldiers are suffering in the meantime. Show , at least, some decency for them.
I understand that you might be confused with this war, as you showed in the beginning. And i can appreciate that given your political allegiance and everything. Being cynical at this moment doesn't put you in a good light.
I hope you find a way Pavel.

billybatts91 wrote:The morale among Russians is very low right now. Sad to see...

https://defenceforumindia.com/attachments/rdt_20220910_2151106988591719780127223-png.171158/

billybatts91 wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

ATLASCUB wrote:

flamming_python wrote:This thread has been overrun

And by coincidence the conversation has veered towards getting rid of Putin, Washingtons/Londons ultimate goal

Withdraw and nuke from orbit

Weren't you the one who was calling Putin a murderer, a monster, criminal etc etc... at the start of this operation? Weren't you the one who staunchly argued against the war on literally all grounds despite what was happening inside Ukraine for over 8 years? The one who flip flopped quickly on all of that when the threat of being cast out by the forum dimwitts and hive mind reached critical mass?

Yep that one.

The trolling here by certain accounts is off the charts, and yours is one of the most insidious ones. Dimwitts obviously can't notice shit.

Jury is out on Putin

But I didn't call for his removal because that's not what you do during wartime.
On the other end the Ukropathogen here is actively transforming people into advocating NATO war-aims.

All NATO has is flash, propaganda, media, spin, psyops, colour revolutions and all this immateriality. They're Chaos from Warhammer basically.
But if you don't fall for it they're powerless

War time? What war time, it's just a little "special military operation".

thegopnik wrote:

If Ukrainians are dying like crazy why hasnt their momentum stopped. I guess heading to moscow is no longer a joke to laugh at next.

Karl Haushofer wrote:Twitter full of claims of ukrainian forces storming donetsk airport now.

TMA1 wrote:I find it amusing that these demoralization posters seem to post much less along a certain time of day/night. Makes me wonder.

PhSt wrote:

Erk wrote:It shows cities which are thinking about having a referendum on joining Russia, they they might be abandoned by the Russian military, and re-captured by Ukraine/NATO.
This is really bad optics.

Are you suggesting that the NATzO occupation force will rough up the civilians who will support Russia? If this tactic works, then Russia can simply do the same treatment to Pro-Ukro Nazis in liberated areas. I have witnessed through experiments that with enough pain and torture a captive will eventually fold to your will.