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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:28 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Noone cares if Ukrainians lose 1 million men in the war

    The west does not, and the rest of theworld won't either , in fact noone gives a shit how many of them die- that is the price of being fodder

    The problem is making a false equivalent between Ukrainian losses and Russian ones

    Russia is like a God , Ukraine is a mortal

    It is nothing for a God to pummel a human , in other words expected

    But if a human manages to cut a God, it has a greater effect,  because the impossible became possible

    You cannot put Russia and Ukraine on the same level even if Ukraine receives NATO assistance

    So the propaganda effect of the Ukrainians blowing up a worthless depot or a couple of planes will have a tremendous effect on the informational side

    Of course this won't win a war, and has no effect in grand scale of things

    But the damage to morale and to fuel the belief that Ukraine can win , is done, regardless if it is true or not, it gives wind to arms deliveries and aid , and western populations continue to tolerate economic losses , because some evidence of the Ukro Counter Offensive suddenly appeard on an Updoot of NAFO

    Russia will win the war, no matter what is written and no matter what random fuel depot gets destroyed

    It is a fact of life, when you put Russia before Ukraine

    But these things cannot happen for the morale of the population and the army

    Yes morale itself is high anyway, but if it can be avoided it is better to have a good informational weapon

    As putin himself stated , the war is 85% informational, 10% economic and 5% kinetic

    Meaning information and propaganda has a place in all of it , even if alone it will not change the facts

    It's all in your head, that's the whole point

    Russia is not a God, the Ukraine is not a pauper.
    The Ukraine has pulling its strings all the best military minds from the largest military alliance on Earth, together with all their intel, recon, technological, spy resources, observers on the ground - trying to figure out where to hit Russia, which bases, depots, people are vulnerable, and all the rest of it.

    And they can't really do nuffin', even after all that. Yeah wow some detonated ammo and maybe old Grad systems, if they're lucky.

    And you, everyone else just has to accept that it's a war. Both sides have smart people trying to figure out how best to kill each other. Both will succeed. Russia succeeds far more often and has far more means available for doing so, but that doesn't change the basic facts.
    None of this informational stuff matters in the end, if you yourself don't invest so much emotion into it. As PD says, the amount of bodies Kiev can throw into the fray are finite. As less and less replacements can be pressed into action, the lines will weaken to the point where the Russian military will simply advances in all directions increasingly rapidly leaving no time for any more HIMARs strikes or sabotage or cunning plans or whatever.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:56 am

    Looks like turks moving into Syria, moving to other thread, this will be interesting
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:10 am

    GarryB wrote " How many times does it need to be pointed out ATACMS is a double range FROG-7 rocket that ancient Soviet SAMs could intercept... its guidance makes it much more accurate but it would never reach its target so its accuracy means nothing at all. "

    Well I do not know what is going on . Are Russian SAM sites being jammed by F35 ? Or taken out by HARM fired from low flying drones ? Or are the SAM sites not taking the bait and firing back ? Or is it as some say just sabotage ? In any case , moving large targets back a few kilometres will help . The Ukrainians and Americans do not have at the ready missiles for this purpose . And moving back behind defensive lines , will also secure against sabotage . This should not affect supply , or air operations . Concentration areas are further back . But supplies are moved further to reach frontline . The fact that the supplies are mobile , makes using this tactic useless .



    Atlasclub quoted " One of the guided missiles hit just 10 meters” from the barrels with spent nuclear fuel,” Rogov told Soloviev Live. “Others hit a bit farther away, 50 to 200 meters.Since the storage site is out in the open, any hit will result in the release of nuclear waste ranging from dozens to hundreds of kilograms and contamination of the area, the official explained. “In plain language, that would be like a dirty bomb,” said Rogov. "


    Well two can play that game . Just take these waste and put it next to Polish border , where weapon shipments cross into Ukraine ! If they move it , blow it up . If they attack NPP , blow it up !


    Last edited by nomadski on Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:34 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  Belisarius Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:17 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 - Page 34 Img_2102
    In the photo Uvarov Igor Aleksandrovich senior lieutenant of the 53rd brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

    It is this brigade that now stands near Ugledar. And today they missed one officer.

    Igor Alexandrovich kindly left his positions and went over to our side. And as a great guest, he took gifts with him. He brought with him the latest secret maps, the personal data of all the officers and enlisted men in the brigade, and much, much more useful information.
    Thank you good man.
    https://t.me/Slavyangrad/5485

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    Post  Belisarius Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:12 am

    Ukraine’s Air Force command says Russia has deployed 800 aircraft units along borders of Ukraine.
    https://t.me/asbmil/4034

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    crod
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    Post  crod Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:35 am

    Belisarius wrote:Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 - Page 34 Img_2102
    In the photo Uvarov Igor Aleksandrovich senior lieutenant of the 53rd brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

    It is this brigade that now stands near Ugledar. And today they missed one officer.

    Igor Alexandrovich kindly left his positions and went over to our side. And as a great guest, he took gifts with him. He brought with him the latest secret maps, the personal data of all the officers and enlisted men in the brigade, and much, much more useful information.
    Thank you good man.
    https://t.me/Slavyangrad/5485

    Let’s hope he’s not intel and not part of an op.

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:40 am

    Belisarius wrote:Ukraine’s Air Force command says Russia has deployed 800 aircraft units along borders of Ukraine.
    https://t.me/asbmil/4034

    I hope there is some truth to this. I want to see a phase 3.

    Speaking of which, here is a question and an answer from the Saker. He is basically chickening out on taking Kiev. I think they better think about it for awhile. It is now or never.

    Why does there need to be a rump Banderastan? Even more to the point, why should it be centered on Kiev? Why should Nazis rule the birthplace of Mother Russia? If Ukraine’s going to be dismembered, might as well do it well and thoroughly.

    Well, for one thing because there are quite a few people in the Ukraine who want it. Yes, Kiev is the mother of all Russian cities, but I always believed that modern reality trumps any historical arguments. To invade Kiev would require a major military operation and many, many people would die. And Kiev run by russophobic Nazis is no worse than Moscow run by russophobic Bolsheviks. Yes, in a fair world, Kiev, a 100% Russian city historically, would never be run by Nazis. The question is this: how many Russian lives are you willing to sacrifice in order to correct this injustice? Speaking only for myself, my reply would be “zero”.

    I care about the living a heck of a lot more than about the dead, or the distant past.
    One more thing: all the riches of the Ukraine are located in the East and the South. A small Banderastan centered around Kiev would be a mostly rural entity which would not have the resources to threaten Russia.

    And, how knows, maybe with time the inhabitants of this small chunk of land will come back to their senses (most of the Nazis will emigrate anyway).
    The point is that I don’t believe that Russia should carry any more ballast than strictly needed for the safety and well-being of her people. Not a gram (or a millimeter) more.
    Cheers

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    Post  billybatts91 Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:52 am

    Belisarius wrote:Ukraine’s Air Force command says Russia has deployed 800 aircraft units along borders of Ukraine.
    https://t.me/asbmil/4034

    I pray this is a fact. Was Crimea the red line? I think Russia has to go all out now. It's clear NATO and Ukraine want to attack all along the front and will make no deals with Russia. Time to pulverize them into submission, there's no other choice. Kill or be killed mentality.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:24 am

    Backman wrote:To invade Kiev would require a major military operation and many, many people would die.

    Yes, but there are options other than trying to storm the city. Firstly, Russia destroys the Ukro military in the field. Then blockade and embargo Kiev. Cut the electricity, water and gas. Force the authorities to capitulate. If people suffer then that is tough. The regime has lost, and they need to surrender unconditionally. When things get desperate enough, people will flee and abandon the failed regime.

    Stalin was forced into a battle for Berlin at great cost as the Western allies were rapidly advancing (Nazi forces were sent eastwards to slow the Russians as the Nazis preferred a surrender to US, UK & French forces rather than Soviet) and a siege of Berlin was not an option due to lack of time. No such problem however will exist when it comes time to take Kiev and kill the regime in its cradle.

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:30 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Russia is not a God, the Ukraine is not a pauper.
    The Ukraine has pulling its strings all the best military minds from the largest military alliance on Earth, together with all their intel, recon, technological, spy resources, observers on the ground - trying to figure out where to hit Russia, which bases, depots, people are vulnerable, and all the rest of it.
    And they can't really do nuffin', even after all that. Yeah wow some detonated ammo and maybe old Grad systems, if they're lucky.
    And you, everyone else just has to accept that it's a war. Both sides have smart people trying to figure out how best to kill each other. Both will succeed. Russia succeeds far more often and has far more means available for doing so, but that doesn't change the basic facts.
    None of this informational stuff matters in the end, if you yourself don't invest so much emotion into it. As PD says, the amount of bodies Kiev can throw into the fray are finite. As less and less replacements can be pressed into action, the lines will weaken to the point where the Russian military will simply advances in all directions increasingly rapidly leaving no time for any more HIMARs strikes or sabotage or cunning plans or whatever.

    And here is another side of a coin :
    Aside from propaganda and throwing some fear on the world community to make them more interested in Ukro matters, as more and more people started to give a shit, why do they target objects like NPP and a dam?
    Infrastructure that is critical, and extremely costly to reestablish?
    Because they are pretty sure it won't return to their hands at any circumstances.
    One doesn't destroy a power production capabilities, at least at so major level, having a single chance to get it back. This NPP is worth of 40bln$ to rebuild/replace if you are a lucky Rosatom customer.
    That's all.
    How much triumphant it sound to you ? Laughing
    And in the meantime, the western audience is really fooled with stories like "Russkies are leaving Crimea quietly", because it doesn't matter if there is a single seed of truth. The task is to lie all the time, to mix lies with any sort of info that can be staged as a part of this lied story.

    Urluber wrote:

    I saw in western press today the Kievan puppet foaming from mouth that it would be a colossal loss for humanity if the world community failed to protect the nuclear power plant.
    That is a message directed to western audiences. And puppy is of course speaking what his masters have told him to.

    So I bet they are trying to get some international group move in and take the powerplant under supervision. They try to create pressure for Russia to accept this. What would that do? At least make the involvement of western powers more official. That could in theory act as some sort of guarantee for Kievan regime to keep existing if they are one of the signatories of this international agreement backed by for example USA.  

    But hard to say.

    Surely Kievan regime will go to the bitter end anyway. We all should be prepared for this emotionally - very nasty things can happen when they hear the knocking at chancellory door. They are insane. Fanatics. Their idols did not have nuclear reactors to blow up as last orders but we remember the metro tunnels.

    Ukro propaganda has been busy lately by staging an atomic hysteria. Two days ago, they have started so spread the panic mode hysteria about radioactive containment of the Zaporoska NPP, and people fleeing Energodar in panic. Of course, that has found a waste clan of chickens the littles, and the Russian information zone was flushed with panic, armchair generals rage towards everything and everybody, and we are all doomed, Ukros are winning, oh my oh my bullshit.
    Russkie answered the best way they could, with the local administration airing from the front of NPP with the radioactive gauge in hands, showing that the radiation level is perfectly normal. And leaving the scene to go to the suburbs of Energodar, showing that there is nothing other than standard daily life traffic instead of claimed panic run.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:57 am

    A tool of war, as good as any other, and even better if you don't have the strength to stage anything more serious.

    Last act of a desperate country... it definitely means they are running out of options and are panicking.


    The explosion at the airbase was used to show how "Russians are fleeing the Crimea", with footage of some scared lady as proof.

    And the people who just went back to sun bathing at the beach shows the opposite... only the west believes their BS, plus a few Orcs here...

    Having turned back the mighty entire Russian army and forcing them to advance in enormous reverse forcebacks, and having made the west look so coordinated and powerful, setting some grass on fire at an airbase is just pathetic.

    Garry, go take care of your grandchildren or shear some sheep or whatever it is you're doing in NZ.

    Don't fret for me CV... life continues as normal here in NZ.

    You've seen Russia only in picture and don't have slightest idea how state apparatus and power circles function in Russian society.
    Nobody here calls for firing of Putin. Russian bureaucracy is bigger than Putin or Russian tsar was. You have famous writers like Gogol and others writing about that.
    It has mindset and behavior of its own. Change of that mindset will take decades. This war is a unigue situation to cleanse incompetence on a scale it would take decades to achieve in peace time. That's all.

    So if the great prophesies of Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister are truly factual and politicians are just talking heads and all the real non work is done by civil servants who never change then why are you bitching about incompetence and heads needing to roll... you should already know the figureheads are just that and removing them will change nothing...

    Have you heard about reunion referendums in already 4 ukie regions? Maybe, just maybe, Russia itself does not want them turned into barren lands?

    A factor is it takes a serious coldness to obliterate a group of people... even if their soldiers shoot at you... to try to eliminate the entire people... civilians as well... is the sort of thing only some cultures can degrade to... the sort that will cancel an entire population because of the interests of their own very rich and powerful.

    And I suspect another factor would be it takes a hell of a lot of ordinance to level a country... they are likely expending ordinance like nobodies business dealing with the enemies military forces without having to worry about dropping every bridge and building and burn every field and port.

    About those red lines...

    Maybe get rid of some of that stored waste by launching it into far western Ukraine and let them deal with it... pump a few litres into each cruise missile launched at targets there...


    But if a human manages to cut a God, it has a greater effect, because the impossible became possible

    If the enemy believes you to be a god then you are doing a good job.

    I think a better comparison would be a professional mens sports team wont play children or amatuers... because their is no benefit for them... if they win then of course they should win... if they lose or the other side even just scores a few points or makes some good tackles or moves and you look bad.

    Given that it makes sense for Russia not to invade Ukraine for fun because the results look bad, but Russia was given no choice so play the bloody game and stop complaining for every tiny scratch Russia gets while ignoring the limbs being ripped from your enemy.

    You cannot put Russia and Ukraine on the same level even if Ukraine receives NATO assistance

    20 odd years ago they were at the same level...

    But the damage to morale and to fuel the belief that Ukraine can win , is done,

    Except everyone knows the chance of an Orc win is zero... they are fighting to survive and to milk as much as they can from the west before pissing off to some tropical island where you don't have to pay tax.

    In fact the damage that is made is more accurately described as counter productive because many Russians will now want revenge and for less respect to be given to an enemy that fights in such an underhanded way... desperate or not.

    As putin himself stated , the war is 85% informational, 10% economic and 5% kinetic

    Was he talking about the western military machine?

    Or was he talking about 85% of the time you use diplomacy and talking to get what you want, 10% of the time you use sanctions and trade pressure to get what you want, and 5% of the time you have no choice but to invade and make what you want happen.

    Meaning information and propaganda has a place in all of it , even if alone it will not change the facts

    For your propaganda to be effective on the enemy population they have to hear it or be curious enough to try to track it down and learn your point of view... Russia is wasting its time with the majority of the people of the west who are about fuel and bread prices and could care less about suffering and damage their own countries create around the world.

    Most westerners think the west and the US are forces for good.

    They don't care what Putin is doing or why... he is the designated bad guy and Russians vote for him because they are all stupid.

    Just keep grinding up the forces of Kiev and eventually the people left there will realise this is only destroying them as a people and a culture so they better start eliminating the nazis in their own house and talk to their neighbours about their future... the longer they leave that the worse their deal will end up being.

    The west is in no position to help them with that... at all.

    Or is it to force Russia to declare war? Instead of bickering about your corruption or defending ruskies or just being a shill of neolib/neocons ask why this is a target. What does the west want?

    Good question... the US already pushed three buttons... nazis... bio weapons... and potentially nukes in Kievs hands... and they achieved what they wanted... war... but now they have the war they wanted, they didn't get the result they wanted which was Russian economic collapse and world condemnation and Putin being arrested and tried for war crimes by the Russian people... so now what?

    Well all they have left is Afghanistan and Chernobyl, so the threat of a forever war, and nuclear terrorism become the focus... while also stirring shit up with China over Taiwan... what are the odds of this tornado picking up this house and shredding it and then dropping it back down on its original foundations and restoring it into one piece again like nothing happened... I am thinking zero.

    The changes they set in motion Russia could never have engineered for itself, and essentially they will create a complete break between Russia and the west and China and the west and the rest of the world are watching...

    As clown Gavin Williamson once incompetently put it: "Russia needs to go out and shut up"

    The guy in charge of defence in Britain whose Apple product interrupted him during a speech in parliment asking him to clarify his question... Apple are spying on UK defence ministers including during meetings... and he kept his job!!!!!!

    Finally they will accept this change, and try to enter the normal world , but it remains to be seen what of the west can actually exist as a normal society

    Their report card for the last 30 years says does not play well with others, does not like to share, communicates with violence, respects no one.

    Well I do not know what is going on . Are Russian SAM sites being jammed by F35 ? Or taken out by HARM fired from low flying drones ? Or are the SAM sites not taking the bait and firing back ?

    For the attack on the airbase in Crimea to have been a ballistic weapon it would have been seen. If F-35s were jamming Russian SAM sites they would become legitimate targets and been shot down, drones would not get anywhere near Crimea... especially drones big enough to carry HARM, and HARM would be worse than useless against Russian air defence which for the last 40 years has been designed to shoot it down... the only way for it to be effective is like how Hinds can be effective in attacking targets behind Russian lines... you have to attack an undefended target... like a swimming pool or public toilet... you certainly couldn't attack an airfield in Crimea...

    SAM sites are not firing back because there is nothing to fire at.

    The fire and explosions at the air base was an accident... a fire that spread to ammo or fuel storage...

    Or is it as some say just sabotage ?

    Both incidents were investigated and the second incident was found to be sabotage.

    Neither involved enemy missiles or rockets.

    Well two can play that game . Just take these waste and put it next to Polish border , where weapon shipments cross into Ukraine ! If they move it , blow it up . If they attack NPP , blow it up !

    Or replace half of Calibrs warhead with solid waste and deliver it that way... Twisted Evil

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:10 am

    Belisarius wrote:Ukraine’s Air Force command says Russia has deployed 800 aircraft units along borders of Ukraine.
    https://t.me/asbmil/4034

    800! But according to their press releases almost all aircraft of the Russian VKS has been destroyed dunno

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:12 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Well two can play that game . Just take these waste and put it next to Polish border , where weapon shipments cross into Ukraine ! If they move it , blow it up . If they attack NPP , blow it up !

    Or replace half of Calibrs warhead with solid waste and deliver it that way... Twisted Evil

    Now you both are climbing to the troll level comment, hand by hand Laughing
    Ever wondered, why the 85% of the world's community sides with Russia?
    Because they see a difference.
    All the bullshit that is being served to the European audience has nothing to do with the information flow one gets living in any given country in Africa, the Middle East, or Asia. Nobody spreads idiotic press releases of UNIAN in any other places on Earth, including the US.
    Russia obviously won the information war, with a serious plan - not some 10 Twitter troll accounts everybody knows already.
    Give me a break, but how in detail a fully ridiculed Julian Roepcke can influence the world's audience, other than making them laugh?
    Russians are not making stupid statements, and evaded serious informational fuckups, while the Ukros were put in the light lying multiple times.
    Threatening nuclear waste is the opposite of this difference.

    Mir wrote:

    800! But according to their press releases almost all aircraft of the Russian VKS has been destroyed dunno

    They have brought the junk bro!

    Telegramm just reminded me something.

    "Russians! I now address to all Russians, the inhabitants of Ukraine and Belarus in the Balkans are also considered to be Russians. Look at us and remember - they will do the same to you when you break up and give weakness.

    The West, that rabid dog, will get at your throat. Brothers, remember the fate of Yugoslavia! Don't let it do the same to you!"


    From Slobodan Milosevic's last interview.

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    Post  Mir Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:53 am

    ALAMO wrote:
    They have brought the junk bro!

    Good now we can see the Mig21 back in action! cheers

    ALAMO wrote:

    "Russians! I now address to all Russians, the inhabitants of Ukraine and Belarus in the Balkans are also considered to be Russians. Look at us and remember - they will do the same to you when you break up and give weakness.

    The West, that rabid dog, will get at your throat. Brothers, remember the fate of Yugoslavia! Don't let it do the same to you!"


    From Slobodan Milosevic's last interview.

    The West has become a factory of lies, lies and more lies...and they even suck at doing that!

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    Post  RTN Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:22 am

    Hole wrote:Or the new Kh-69 which combines the big warhead of the Kh-29 with stand-off capability.  Cool
    One notable external difference between this Kh-69 and the Kh-59MK2 is the nose fairing.
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    Post  Isos Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:28 am

    RTN wrote:
    Hole wrote:Or the new Kh-69 which combines the big warhead of the Kh-29 with stand-off capability.  Cool
    One notable external difference between this Kh-69 and the Kh-59MK2 is the nose fairing.

    It's the same missile. Stealthy Kh-59mk2 was just a model presented as su-57 future weapons. Kh-69 will be the final product that will enter production.

    None is actually produced as of now.

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    Post  JohninMK Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:30 am

    crod wrote:
    Belisarius wrote:
    In the photo Uvarov Igor Aleksandrovich senior lieutenant of the 53rd brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

    It is this brigade that now stands near Ugledar. And today they missed one officer.

    Igor Alexandrovich kindly left his positions and went over to our side. And as a great guest, he took gifts with him. He brought with him the latest secret maps, the personal data of all the officers and enlisted men in the brigade, and much, much more useful information.
    Thank you good man.
    https://t.me/Slavyangrad/5485

    Let’s hope he’s not intel and not part of an op.

    And that he doesn't have a family in Ukraine for this would be a death sentence for them.

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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:34 am

    Yes I agree , it is not good to say " ..deliver nuclear waste to western border ! " It is kind  of evil . However the British at some point were talking about arming Ukraine with Nukes . What then ? Is this not evil ? What if the Ukrainians did manage to target NPP in a proficient manner to cause another Chernobyl ? Make Eastern Regions and land and water poisonous for the next 10,000 years ? All the Russian population then having to abandon land and go to Russia ? Why did I suggest that Iranians could target Dimona NPP ? Because I am evil ? Or because the Zionists were sending Nuclear armed Dolphin submarine to PG region ? And why did Iranians build a maket of Dimona and destroy with warhead ?

    I am not a troll , I love peace , but it is difficult to achieve . History shows that humans will wage war , and that they will not abandon war , unless they face annihilation . Therefore it is a serious suggestion . But better to target an American military NATO base near Russia with " dirty bomb , " with material from this NPP , if they give help with missiles and target info ( which they are doing ) to destroy NPP . Kissinger warned recently that " we face Nuclear war ! " so better get ready , collect some Nuclear  waste from site and get some salt and pepper to cook a stew .

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:55 am

    Smile time

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 - Page 34 FZnrHNlXgAAH30S?format=png&name=small
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    Post  Belisarius Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:20 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 - Page 34 Img_2103

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    Post  Mir Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:26 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Smile time

    "The Kyiv Independent" - nice touch! Laughing

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    Post  Belisarius Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:54 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 - Page 34 Img_2106
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 - Page 34 Img_2107

    ⚡🇷🇺🇺🇦💥 #Ozernoye military airfield hit by Russian missiles⚡

    According to the Ukrainian Air Force Command, the strike on the airfield near #Zhytomyr was carried out by two X-59 missiles from a Su-34 bomber from Belarus. The runway and vehicles were damaged.

    The 39th brigade of tactical aviation of the Ukrainian Air Force was based at the airfield until 6 March 2022.
    https://t.me/Slavyangrad/5547?single

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    Post  Hole Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:35 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Backman wrote:To invade Kiev would require a major military operation and many, many people would die.

    Yes, but there are options other than trying to storm the city.  Firstly, Russia destroys the Ukro military in the field. Then blockade and embargo Kiev.  Cut the electricity, water and gas.  Force the authorities to capitulate.  If people suffer then that is tough.  The regime has lost, and they need to surrender unconditionally. When things get desperate enough, people will flee and abandon the failed regime.

    Stalin was forced into a battle for Berlin at great cost as the Western allies were rapidly advancing (Nazi forces were sent eastwards to slow the Russians as the Nazis preferred a surrender to US, UK & French forces rather than Soviet) and a siege of Berlin was not an option due to lack of time.  No such problem however will exist when it comes time to take Kiev and kill the regime in its cradle.
    The regime will have left Kiev long before Russian troops are coming to the city limits. Does someone really think that some police officers will fight against russian soldiers to "defend" a city without administration? Russia will come in, take it over, lower the costs of living and raise wages and most people will be fine with it.

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:57 pm

    https://t.me/levigodman/4558

    The President of Latvia calls for an audit of visas and residence permits previously issued to Russians.

    Open, public and encouraged targeting based on nationality, ethnicity. Welcome to EU 2022.


    https://t.me/levigodman/4561

    Latvia is developing a law to limit the use of the Russian language at work and in public places, said the country's Minister of Justice Janis Bordans.

    Europe 2022


    Do feel more than a snicker of satisfaction over all this. Latvia, the beloved off-shore and property zone of our liberal class. Now those liberals are going to get the Kristallnacht treatment  What a Face

    I feel sorry for the born and bred Russians of Latvia. The solution for them, is ultimately to return to Russia. There should be a program for relocation and employment. Say for all the port and railway workers - the Ust-Luga port and other under construction ones around St. Petersburg also need qualified workers.. why not offer those jobs to Russians from Latvia?

    For the liberals and most others though I find it hard to feel pity.
    A former work colleague of mine emigrated to Latvia back in October/November or so, not long before the war. Last time we were talking, he was singing the praises of Europe and making fun of how 'Gayropa' is derided in Russian propaganda. Well bud, hope you enjoy the ride, you made the down-payment for it already.
    A good friend of mine has been living in Latvia for years, handling sales/traffic of chemicals and materials on behalf of a major producer in Russia. That company should have transferred its dealings to Ust-Luga long ago. My friend even bought a snazzy apartment in Riga. And what now? It's hard to imagine that there will be business as usual and such large material flows in the coming years. And it's something I warned him about even well before the war.

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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:16 pm

    ALAMO wrote:...
    Telegramm just reminded me something.

    "Russians! I now address to all Russians, the inhabitants of Ukraine and Belarus in the Balkans are also considered to be Russians. Look at us and remember - they will do the same to you when you break up and give weakness.

    The West, that rabid dog, will get at your throat. Brothers, remember the fate of Yugoslavia! Don't let it do the same to you!"


    From Slobodan Milosevic's last interview.

    That traitor commie piece of shit can rot in Hell alongside his precious Yugoslavia

    While people were getting slaughtered in wars he never planned on winning he was having business dinners with his buddies Tudjman and Izetbegivic while his family and friends were robbing the country blind and his whore daughter was blasting Croatian music on her TV stations 24/7 literally as refugee columns were arriving from Croatia in '95

    This asshole was definition of American asset and a disposable one as he learned in the end

    I am only sorry we were denied the satisfaction of giving him Gadaffi treatment but alas his owners had additional use planned for him to f*ck us over some more





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