But at least he's not a total troll like you
What are you even saying man?
Your first comment is accurate... AC is a troll... not regular enough to be a paid troll so obviously an ideological troll, but he is complaining that SS sometimes attacks stupid no matter what "side" it comes from, and obviously AC wants him to only attack pro putin pro Russia stupid and ignore western stupid because that is a rule in the west... no matter what the facts are America is not to blame.
A case of SS seeing stupidity and calling it out because stupid helps no case and can work against a case if there is too much stupid, and AC telling him stupid is fine as long as it is our stupid and on our side.
So not good for Vann or AC, but to SSs credit...
they need to stop this unguided bullshit fighting and at very least strike those artillery with their airforce with precision weapons.
Against troops manning a towed gun battery a volley of unguided HE Frag rounds bracketing the target is vastly more effective than much more expensive guided shells... getting lots of fragments in the air quickly is vastly more valuable than picking off guns and trucks one at a time slowly.
Saying the Russian military does not have a clue in what they are doing...
But AC loves you bro because saying such things obviously weakens the Russians and strengthens the west.... NOT.
Let's see if you notice, idiot. If there was an open war with NATO nuclear weapons were used, nobody will care about your virgin child messages and analysis. Go with your mom.
Lots of members have Vann on ignore so they don't see his posts... when you repeat them they get to see them which might lead to them ignoring your posts too.
Seeing them once is enough... unless you want to comment specifically about things he says please don't bother reposting his posts.
Goodwill gesture? but why?
I would say they have decided that the Ukraine has moved enough weapons within range to make holding the place not worth the value that holding it offers, so this way they can get Kiev to look like the bad guys because now they are what is preventing Ukrainian grain from leaving...
Only thing I would assume is why they went on that Island was to prevent Romania from taking it? I mean, Ukraine could be asking US or Romania to just take it and place whatever dummy forces there to be used as a target for Russians to attempt to start a conflict. I am not sure though on that, just an assumption.
Just save it for a later phase when the coastline is in pro Russian control to prevent it from being occupied by any other regional power.
I mean sure what Boris said was stupid but Putin's response wasn't any better, He worded it like Thatcher started the war when it was Argentina who seized the islands prompting the British response.
I am sure some fanboy will try to react with one of two points.
1. The British stole those lands from Agrentina first
Doesn't matter who did what... boris the idiot was trying to suggest that women don't declare war... he was very wrong and Thatcher is an obvious example to prove it to be wrong.
I also wasn't talking about the current war, My statement on crimea was they voted to join Russia so if you support that vote, then you have to respect the people who voted to stay with the UK also.
But equally the UK claims the Falklands belong to Britain because the people on the Islands want to be British citizens, but the people on the Crimea have voted multiple times to be part of the Russian Federation and were denied by Kiev... well in 2014 they voted again and got their wishes which the UK should obviously support... but they don't.
Equally the Ukrainian people of the Donbass and Lugansk regions have been killed by what was supposed to be their own government so they asked for independence... Russia recognised their right to claim independence and demanded Kiev stop shelling them... when they didn't stop Russia has now started actions to make them stop defending the local people their right to not be part of Ukraine any more, but it is the west that is saying that Crimea and Donbass and Lugansk are Ukrainian territory and the "foreigners" should leave and go back to the country they identify with... again if that were the case in the South Atlantic all those Falkland Islanders would go home to Britain and Argentina could populate their land.
Russia is consistent... it is the UK with the problem.
Ah the turks are calling the russian bluff are they, They know Russia won't directly attack them and with their ongoing war in Ukraine unlikely they can deliver the mass amount of weapons that would be needed to other group to hold te turks back.
Turkey choose the perfect time.
The turks are not attacking land held by Syrian government forces with Russian support, they will be taking land currently occupied by US supported Kurdish groups... I doubt Russia cares except that if they do take large swathes of land that at some stage Turkey will need to return the land to Syria as long as it is not under Kurdish control... which it wont be.
This is complete horseshit, what relevance does Russian retreat from that island have with transportation of agricultural goods?
Ships won't be travelling over that island
If they wanted to move agricultural good by sea all they had to do was to move them, status of the island is irrelevant
The presence of Russian forces on the island was being used as an excuse that grain could not be shipped past due to the risk.
The reality is that the island is exposed and has no real value except the energy Kiev was expending to try to recover it.
Now they have longer ranged artillery the level of energy they needed to expend to be a problem was too small to be worth the risk so they withdrew.
Now Kiev will have to come up with another excuse not to ship grain... because they don't want to ship any because it gets the wests attention and money and weapons...
I am sure that families of all those Russian grunts who died there are super happy about their boys giving their lives for futile PR stunt
Nothing to do with PR... only Kiev mounts PR stunts because they have the media advantage.
The value was all those Hips and Hinds and aircraft and drones that were shot down and all those landing ships and other vessels damaged or sunk trying to take the island.
Wait and see brother, think of gifts to kurds as a gesture of good will
There is no way they will give stingers and javelins to Kurds because eventually they will be used against Assads forces and Russian forces too...
Currently Turkey is supporting ISIS and the US is supporting the Kurds so letting them fight each other is a good thing as far as Russia in concerned... I suspect the Turkish will be sending in those ISIS fighters to use them up because they are bad news for everyone anyway... and they will be killing kurds so Turkey wins either way.
They should have done this way sooner.
Such drones would be sitting ducks for most of the Ukraines ADS... sending them in on day one would see them very quickly gone... you are starting to sound like Vann.
Why didn’t they destroy that artillery then?
There is likely a large area of ground those vehicles could be positioned to hit the island... roll it out of cover... and fire a shot or two and then roll back under cover... what are the Russians supposed to do about that?
This is enemy held territory so loitering for long periods just invites a BUK or OSA being rolled out instead...
If Russians eventually leave with their tails between their legs they won't be a spent force, they will go down in history as the greatest warriors that ever lived
This war is Russia's to lose, Ukrainians have no input here
Stop drinking the cool aide are you saying they should man up and stay there and take losses to look tough... let the nazis be tough churned up by artillery... Russians have to fight smart... not like enormous egoed dick heads...
They took the island and when the enemy tried to retake it and took serious losses trying to retake it they stayed for a bit and kept hammering the enemy with every useless attack to try to capture this useless island (useless to Russia except the number of Orcs that died trying to get it back).
Now the enemy has moved artillery to enemy positions that enable them to shell any time 24/7 so it is time to leave... the island no longer has any value to Russia any more.... and guess what... when Kiev sends forces to the island to triumphantly capture it the Russians can drop a Father of all bombs and vapourise it along with Kievs best troops.... just take all the civilians off with you and watch and wait...
If Romanians try to take it then just kill the Romanians who try to take it
Is this why Russian MoD is always screaming in panic about Poles going into Ukraine?
It was about Kiev wanting it and being prepared to sacrifice their best soldiers to try to take it... as long as they kept doing that it made sense to hold it and kill those troops.
Now they are using artillery and artillery is not so easy to destroy as a helicopter full of special forces troops...
The easy kills are gone and the risk has gone way up I am surprised you think they should stay now because that would be the opposite of common sense... TOR systems can track incoming shells and shoot down the accurate ones... they could probably have vehicles there that jam proximity fuses and make them explode too high up in the air to be effective, but at the end of the day it comes down to wasting TORs defending something not worth defending if you are not killing their special forces trying to retake it.
AKA you got your asses kicked and plan on running away with your tails between your legs?
He does not speak for anyone but himself.
There is no way the Ukraine will exist after this war is over and zelensky will be dead or in exile because he has proven he does not give a shit about Ukrainian lives and jumps to the music played in the western capital cities...
Maybe because Russians aren't suicidal and not wanting to start a greater war?
Any HATO force wanting to step foot on Ukraine territory knows it will not start a greater war because the US has already said no HATO troops... if Romaninans or Polish forces enter Ukrainian territory in any context or any degree they become legitimate targets for Russian military power.
Article 5 does not apply.
We were
promised that no Azov POWs would be exchanged, how dare they go back on their word". GTFO, morons. There is
something called pragmatism and situational flexibility.
The people doing the assessing and making the agreements are the ones that have been the victims of Azovs BS.... they will not be handing over anyone they want to prosecute and if they have no evidence to prosecute then why not swap them for someone they have.
As I mentioned earlier, the entire thing was only to deny Zelensky's retarded leadership some propaganda stuff, but ironically all the effort it took to do so kind of made Moscow look retarded.
That is your mistake.... it was never Moscows propaganda... the propaganda you are hearing is the wests propaganda, so even manouvering forces is turned into a retreat who gives a **** how it makes Moscow look.... hundreds of Orc special forces died in landing boats and Mi-8 transport helicopters... they shot down a dozen helicopters including Hips and Hinds and they got Su-24s and Su-25s and they tied up drones and shot down plenty of drones too and for what... they might have lost soldiers but nothing like what Kiev lost.
But now the island is in artillery range... I would say the retarded thing to do would be to double down and stay on the island and trade TOR missiles for artillery shells... because obviously the island has no value other than the blood Kiev is prepared to lose to take it... well shelling the island means they are no longer losing blood but the potential cost of holding it is going up.
Declare you are leaving so Kiev can export grain and save lives and when Kiev sends in a huge force of troops unopposed to seize the island and get photos etc etc the Russians can test their Father of All Bombs and level the place...
How about that for looking retarded...
Factory opened only in December. It's not possible to start working in three shifts immediately. I don't think it is completely finished, as well.
Even if they put out 100 drones this week they would have to create the control systems and vehicles and train the soldiers to operate them.
This is part of the conflict where such roaming drones would be useful especially with a Kornet under each wing... but they don't need enormous numbers of these... one shift would be fine.
Still, we need to always remember that at any point in time Kremlin can decide to just give up and run away under excuse of diplomacy
That is just pro Vann like anti Putin bashing fantasy... ignoring the fact that the Russian politicians are now referring western politiicans as being former partners... it is over and they know it... they don't want to go back... they are planning Russias future with the rest of the world.
They know they don't need to work with these idiots for a long time hense the abuse... calling western leaders fools publicly was not the sort of thing they did even when they were obviously being fools... because they knew in a week or a month they might have to negotiate something with them.
That ship has clearly sailed suggesting end of war negotiations wont involve the west at all.
Why should it... their contributions so far have been to stoke the fire increase the misery and damage... why give them a voice in the future for a people they clearly care nothing for.
But yeah, during war time it's useless.
To be clear it is useless if you don't also hold the coast... later in the war it will be useful again.
Hopefully, Moskva sinking will show to Russian command that keeping huge outdated ships that don't have any place in modern battle is wrong. Not to mention how much money is wasted to just keep them floating.
You are assuming Kiev propaganda is true... The reasons for keeping the ship were sound, but what was no sound was the assumption that saving a little extra money by not properly upgrading it is money in the bank. Instead not properly upgrading it with fire fighting equipment and modern systems it ended up lost with lives. The money they saved not upgrading it properly wont cover the cost of the loss of the ship or the sailors... money spent on upgrades to make her more capable of defending herself would be invested in defense equipment for ships which would make them better and more affordable.
They likely saved a few million and the cost will be several times more than that.
I believe that Kuznetsov ate few billion $ in last 20 years with very little to show for. It was maybe operational for 4 or 5 in all that time. They are just vanity projects, not battle worth ships.
Of course.... I am sure the navies of France and UK and the US and even Norway will respect Russian access to the worlds oceans and respect and support their rights to free trade... they don't need any navy at all in fact... make sure you put a dab of vaseline on your arse before you set sail...
No but black sea isn't necessarily large and having a surface ship in the area is open target anyway. So Ukraine having anti ship missiles is of no surprise.
So the obvious question would be if Kiev could sink Russian ships in the Black Sea... why did they only bother to sink one?
Surely with the success of sinking one they would mass up missiles and try to sink more but there are no mention from either side of any attacks or even attempts to sink a Russian ship... military or civilian... but of course that is not suspicious... as soon as the Ghost of Kiev shot down his first Su-57 he retired to write his memoirs...
It wasn't sunk by a ship either but anti ship missiles launched from the land.
So you have confirmation do you?
Or a stick up your arse about big ships...
Wouldn't have mattered if a Russian ship or American or whatever. The problem of the black sea or Caspian sea or any sea for that matter
No.... it could have been the death star because they are lying so anything would have been destroyed including the 20 trillion dollar super Yacht that Putin does not have... would show you a photo but then I would have to kill you all and burn this website.
Having a large ship in black sea made no sense either imo. So the large ship is now gone. Too bad, maybe better suited for up north. Leave Black Sea to Kilo's and Corvettes.
During peace time it is handy to the Med and can be used for trips to various different places around the world from there.
I don't think that most of these men will fight again as they look broken and old, but Azov is Azov, they said they won't release anyone belonging to them. Not even a little jail time or rebuilding effort. What example is this?
There are probably soldiers that joined Azov more recently and have a good sob story.
I will stay with my opinion that Russia needs to show no exceptions to the rule.
Yeah like sticking to a plan because it was the plan.... even though your men are getting slaughtered and you are making no progress the plan is the plan and there can never be any changes to the plan.... there are always exceptions to rules.
Russia shouldn't have said anything about snake island at all. They should have left some decoys there and pretended that they were still there. Then Ukraine would have had to claim that Russia left.
No, because they have HATO electronic support and when air defences on the island stopped intercepting incoming shells they might have sent a ship or a helicopter along with drones for another landing attempt and when they found it was unopposed send in the rest with teh cameras showing their capture of the island.... all Russians killed by the brave and heroic nazis.
Better to declare you have left to allow grain transport and monitor the island... if they send troops to occupy and have a party about it then a father of all bombs to vapourise them all...
The whole western media and Ukro retard complex have been bigging up this snake island story for awhile now. Just a few days ago, the Wall Street Journal ran a story about how Snake island was the key to Russia's war strategy.
Which just shows the west is full of shit and don't have a clue as to what is going on.
When Kiev stopped landing troops by helicopter and boat and started attacking with rockets and shells the value of the island dropped to zero while the risk for the Russian troops on the island went up a little bit with the threat of shelling... when there is a threat of being shelled and no value in being there you leave obviously... only a retard would stay to not look bad in western propaganda... if you haven't been following that Russia already looks bad which is actually good.
If one feels that this is what will cause Russia to lose the war, then so be it.
It is another reason Russia is losing and something else they will have to explain when the Orc army collapses and starts talking terms with Moscow without any western country there at all.
Irrelevant as they are... unless they bring their war criminals for standing trial in the Donbass.
The US carrier tubs were rendered obsolete by Russian supersonic anti-ship missiles years ago. That none of them has been sunk
means exactly nothing since the US has not engaged in any conflict where they would be used. This basically sums up the US
"invincibility". It has not been tested since WWII by any peer level opponent. This is why pundit-tards in the US have been
spouting off about Russia as if it was in the same category as Saddam's Iraq.
US supercarriers are about power projection and keeping sea lines of communication and commerce open... for the US.
Soviet and now Russian anti ship missiles have restricted and limited the power of the US Navy, but the US Navy is still a problem around the world which is where Russia wants to expand its trade ties to so it will need large ships to trade with the world and for teh rest of teh world to trade with them.
Who is going to trade with a Russia with Corvettes and Frigates... who will help them when US and even UK and French aircraft carriers arrive and start stopping ships coming and going from your country "looking for drugs" but holding up all cargo till you stop trading with Russia...
Russia having a navy that can go there for training exercises including anti carrier operations and sell them some corvettes and some Clubs to sink ships and subs and I suspect the west will back off... without that Russia is isolated and contained just like the west wants.
Carriers and large surface ships are overrated against enemies with strong AShM capabilities.
Actually with the exception of hypersonic anti ship missiles the aircraft carrier and the larger cruisers in the US fleet were explicitly designed and intended to defend US ships from supersonic anti ship missiles.
The whole point of AWACS and fighters was to shoot down anti ship missile carrying aircraft before they can launch their missiles and remains the most effective defence against air attack... a combination of air borne radar and fighters as well as ground (surface) based SAMs and guns and radars and sensors on a moving platform is as safe as you can get.
The alternative would be corvettes... hundreds of them which would be easy to pick off because their small size limits the number of missiles and radar and sensor sizes... Air power could deliver an enormous volley of missiles and withdraw and reload and attack again and again in the time it would take ships to turn and run.
And expensive jets are overrated against enemies with significant mobile medium range or higher SAMs.
Very true, but a navy is an example of a Russian air defence plan instead of a HATO one.
Ships are covered in layered air defence systems from guns and missiles to radar and other sensors, but any AD system is useless if it doesn't detect the enemy so an AWACS aircraft in the air scanning for sneaky low flying targets and medium and high flying targets too is essential.
Having fighters you can launch to investigate contacts is important to not waste missiles and improve situational awareness.
The HATO equivalent would be a whole lot of aircraft carriers and SAMs on your HQ ship so lots and lots of planes, but not a lot of decent SAMs in large enough numbers to matter... aircraft being used for attack and defence meaning as they are depleted your attack and your defence diminishes rapidly... especially if AWACS and refuelling aircraft are hit.
Kuznetsov had pretty dismal record, so far, and billions were spent while she was sitting in the drydock for years on end.
Check the history of any first of a class ship that size and you will find problems and issues and lots of time in dock... especially for a country not at war and not with imperial ambitions like the UK US or France.
For money they've spent to keep that floating tub and few other vanity projects, they could get dozen new corvettes and frigates.
And what the **** use would they be... keeping Russia safe while the US Navy strangles all trade with the rest of the world by regime changing every country outside the west that looks at Russia twice...
I do agree, its a waste of money. But I can see where they may be coming from keeping it alive.
If you agree air power is a waste of money then cancel Su-35 and Su-57 and S-70 and all other aircraft design programmes... airfields are too big and vulnerable and will be destroyed in minutes in any conflict... they should just rely on SAMs and drones.
I would figure Frigates and Submarines are the best cost efficient method of having a navy.
How many navies around the world only have subs and frigates?
On paper, Russia was a second naval power of the world, but many ships didn't move from their docks for years, while money has been sank in them.
On paper the UK had fixed wing carriers with Phantoms and Buccaneers and AWACS and they scrapped it to save money leading to them having to go to war with Harriers and helicopter based AEW and they lost 6 ships because of that.
Didn't save them any money.... in fact it could be argued that if Britain kept those carriers the Argentines might never have invaded.
The Russian Navy has always been a second thought. Most money in the last 10 - 15 years has been in upgrading the army, airforce and the missile forces. I think after the Missile forces are upgraded with hypersonic missiles, I believe that the Navy will then get better treatment.
If they want uninterrupted communication and trade with the rest of the world their navy is going to need a lot of attention and I don't mean more subs and corvettes and frigates.
You agree to prisoner exchange only when you are uncertain of your ability to win the war
Bullshit. A prisoner exchange is a way to get your enemy to take back their troops and when they find out they were treated with respect and with decency they wont be afraid of surrendering and they will realise they were lied to.
Plus even when you win a war a crazy enemy might decide their prisoners have too much dirt on them and their sentences would be shorter if there was no one left to testify...
The opportunity to trade prisoners saves money holding enemy prisoners that are otherwise not worth anything to you, and to get men back.
If Russian prisoners cannot be traded then they likely will be executed or tortured because they are being held by bastards.
You start executing theirs in that case
Yeah... getting to murder helpless men in your control... so much more valuable than getting your own men back...
Russia has more of them in storage, go proportionate, 20 dead Ukrainians for every Russian, see how long they can keep up
No need... they likely have 1000 orcs for every Russian prisoner...
1 for 1 is just fine.
War is about killing them before they kill you
It is... until you accept their surrender and then it is not.... then it is murdering an unarmed man.
Russia is starting to exibit the familiar symptoms of pussying out: abandoning positions, freeing prisoners, obsessing over PR, pretending everything is fine and pussyfooting in general
Of course there are only two seats in this bar and one is for nazis that murder unarmed defenceless men in cold blood and the other seat is for pussies.
This has nothing to do with PR.
No way they spent enough for a dozen corvettes or frigates.
Even if they had it doesn't matter because what was spent on Corvettes and Frigates was what needed to be spent... extra money would not speed up the process.... money wasn't the problem and isn't the problem... new missiles and new guns and new engines and all sorts of other shit and when they decide what they like then they will start serial production in volume which is when money will be handy but I don't think would change the production rate very much at all.
This is the sort of people Russia is dealing with.
"PapaDragon" has a legitimate point.
So Ukrainians were bastards to Poland and bastards to Russians so Russia should be bastards to Ukraine.
Then they will jump up and down about geniune war crimes and say... see... what we did was totally justified... these guys are animals... and they would be right.
They are not right and if you think actually committing war crimes makes you stronger or tougher... well... maybe how to lose would be a good description for that tactic.
I am actually hoping that the Russians would refit the Kuznetsov with Tsirkon missiles. In my opinion that would give the K far better strike capabilities than any of the US carriers. (F-16 fanboys club horror screams are coming in loud and clear right now! Laughing )
They were talking about a reduced size hypersonic missile for internal carriage on an Su-57 that could be flown 1,000km closer to the target and then launched to hit targets 1,000km distant... I would think the Su-33 could carry four of them at least.
If Ukraine withdraw forces from Russian speaking region , then a defensive posture by them can be supported , in defence of own Ukraininan speaking regions .
Might have been possible at the start but why would Russia tolerate a pro US pro west neighbour so close that accepts arms and kills Russians and Russian speaking Ukrainians with no regrets or remorse... this wont be over any time soon... Kiev will lose access to the Black Sea and more besides...
Create an Iraq/Af-style hot stalemate in Ukraine, oil remains high nuking economies across the world (and Daisy Cuttering whats left).
Would call it a Syria style stalemate, which is all the more reason for Kievs regime to be eliminated and their military destroyed.
Lets face it... with 5 billion dollars the US was able to take over the whole country and insert loyal nazis in places that were friendly to Russia.... so Russia should be able to do the same thing... take all of the Ukraine and put in their people chosen from teh south and east and let them have fun in the north and west doing what Americas nazis have been doing the last 8 years or so.
Ban the Ukrainian language... listen to the arguments from the west about how countries don't do that and laugh.
First they already have new anti ship missiles with 1000km to replace harpoon. And spotting a target 1500 km away with current russian ships is not easy. F-18 can scan the space and easily find russian ships 1000km away.
Russian satellite networks track US carriers and carrier groups and we are talking about the Kuznetsov so an Su-35 upgrade for the Su-33 with a new radar with much longer range... besides it does not have to be spotted... its location could be sent by another platform... corvettes in teh Caspian Sea didn't have to get radar locks on the targets in Syria they were hitting with Calibres.
Last, carriers are not meant to fight against nuclear superpowers.
Their value in peace time is mobile airpower to make operating away from friendly waters safer.
Not really appealing tho. Better discard the Granit launcher and replace it with maybe more hangar space.
The Granit launcher was heavily firewalled for obvious reasons and has not connection to the internal hangars for obvious reasons.
The launch area could be used for UKSK launch tubes with a bit of rewiring. or even better ammo storage for munitions that can be stored there away from the aircraft with a lift to get them to deck level to load them onto aircraft.
Those big military vehicles aren't helping ukraine. They are easy to spot and destroy by the russians which enjoy an advantage in the skies.
They would be better with civilian vans and pick ups.
Not to mention they burn precious fuel, take time to learn to operate and maintain and package Orcs together so you can kill them in groups with one missile hit from a helicopter or aircraft or drone.
Oh boy, the EU are going to hit the roof.
They do that every year, but most years they buy extra before hand to compensate for 10 days without gas.
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Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine (July 1, 2022) 
The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue successful offensive near Lisichansk. Over the past three days, Russian units have taken under control the Lisichansk oil refinery, the Matrosskaya coal mine, the Gelatine plant and the settlement of Topolevka. The allied forces have reached Lisichansk.
Ukrainian army is suffering big losses in this area. Only in Verkhnekamenka, over the past 24 hours, the enemy has lost more than 120 persons dead, as well as 70 in Verkhnekamenskoye.
Russian Federation Armed Forces continue launching attacks at military facilities located in Ukraine.
High-precision attacks launched by Russian Aerospace Forces have destroyed 2 command posts, 5 munitions depots near Ivano-Daryevka, Seversk (Donetsk People's Republic), Belogorovka (Lugansk People's Republic), Nikolayev, Lepetikha (Nikolayev region), as well as AFU manpower and military equipment in 26 areas.
In total, 226 airplanes and 134 helicopters, 1,411 unmanned aerial vehicles, 353 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,873 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 699 combat vehicles equipped with multiple rocket-launching systems, 3,067 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 3,948 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.
