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    Russia and economic war by the west #2

    Tolstoy
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    Post  Tolstoy Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:18 am

    JohninMK wrote:Think of India during the time of the British Raj, India was the Jewel in the Crown of the British Empire, because it could both have its resources stripped and shipped back to London while also being a huge (and guaranteed, competitors need not apply) market for goods exported from Britain.
    That was also the only time when they made any kind of economic or social progress. With the Brits gone the locals failed to govern the country effectively. Something that happened to the ex Soviet countries of Central Asia.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:33 am

    And while not developing, they have sent probes to the Moon and Mars?
    Those British locomotives must have had some extra features.
    How fascinating!

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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:15 am

    You don't slag off a chick you are shagging... part of that golden era for India was telling the pretty girl her hair looks lovely while trying to get into her underwear.

    The British are real pervs though... talking nice to a girl while trying on her clothes... sick...

    Do you think the fact that there is only one letter difference between Devil and Evil is a coincidence?

    Do you think the fact that there is only one letter difference between British and Brutish is a coincidence too?

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:44 am

    Tolstoy wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Think of India during the time of the British Raj, India was the Jewel in the Crown of the British Empire, because it could both have its resources stripped and shipped back to London while also being a huge (and guaranteed, competitors need not apply) market for goods exported from Britain.
    That was also the only time when they made any kind of economic or social progress. With the Brits gone the locals failed to govern the country effectively. Something that happened to the ex Soviet countries of Central Asia.

    And it happened in Russia itself, when the aristocracy and Tsarist officials were all run out of town

    It takes time to re-orient the country, to learn from naive mistakes if necessary, to build up new professional cadres

    India accounted for up to 25% of the world's GDP at the beginning of the 18th century. This is before any Brits were there.

    While there are many other reasons why this share plunged over the next 200 years, including the industrial revolution taking hold in Europe and America, and India's share of the world population also decreasing as infant mortality shrunk in more advanced nations - certainly the overarching reason was India's trade, once prolific across Asia - coming under the dictat of the Europeans, with the British specifically, eventually outright taking control of it and deciding on India's economic and social progress according to their own interests. Their own interests being Britain's profits and industrialization. But pursuing such could hardly fulfill India's potential. No-one in India could decide on their own reforms, their own foreign relations, their own priorities for modernization, their own production for their own needs, and the most profitable for them trade priorities.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:01 pm

    Clear evidence that sanctions are biting hard. Laughing Laughing

    Tony
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    1/ In October, Japan significantly increased exports to the Russian Federation in some areas, including medical products, computer components, cars and engines.

    This is evidenced by the trade statistics of the Ministry of Finance of Japan.

    2/ Thus, the total volume of deliveries to the Russian Federation of medical products increased by 804%, and components for computers - by 340%, while deliveries of computers themselves to Russia decreased by 72.9%.

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    Post  JohninMK Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:You don't slag off a chick you are shagging... part of that golden era for India was telling the pretty girl her hair looks lovely while trying to get into her underwear.

    The British are real pervs though... talking nice to a girl while trying on her clothes... sick...

    Do you think the fact that there is only one letter difference between Devil and Evil is a coincidence?

    Do you think the fact that there is only one letter difference between British and Brutish is a coincidence too?

    Lay off the generalisations.
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:01 pm

    Looks like dollar dumping is shifting to the next level.
    All that debt is going home, the chickens are going back home to roost, i wonder how this is going affect dollar inflation.
    China and Japan are the 2 biggest debt holders, if i recall, and they both dumping hard.
    Again, this guys doesn't have to full picture, he still thinks the Fed is gonna fight inflation, the fed can't go above 5.5% interest, if they do the U.S economy go's bankrupt, and real inflation is well above 10%, so U.S economy is damned if they do and damned if they don't, chose your poison, i guess.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:52 am

    And it happened in Russia itself, when the aristocracy and Tsarist officials were all run out of town

    It is normal for serious changes in systems to create temporary chaos... Mugabe in Zimbabwe was creating chaos when he gave farmland to soldiers from the civil war... any massive changes in agriculture do serious damage and of course the damage is in food supply, and of course the colonial west claimed he was destroying the country and kept talking about how they used to export food and now they import food... but the system they had was broken and terribly unfair to the people of the country and had to be changed.

    Lay off the generalisations.

    Not very nice I know, but Britain wasn't there because the Indians are children and needed adult supervision as most western critics would suggest... most of the chaos in colonial countries are inflamed by the colonial powers to make it appear these countries don't work without their expert guidance... and obviously the cost of that expert guidance is that the locals remain poor and learn to hate themselves... damn natives... and the colonials skim the benefits and profits from resource rich countries.

    I think my comment about speaking nicely to the chick you are shagging was quite bland because I made it sound consensual when in fact most of the time it is not.

    The rules are different in the third world... western members will cry about Russian children wearing uniforms and going to militarised academies, but we hear nothing about the children sent into diamond mines to scrabble for rocks that end up being worth millions of dollars which they might get a few dollars for finding.

    China is accused of offering loans to poor countries they can't pay back to get them into a debt spiral they cannot escape to control them, yet the irony is that this is what the west has been doing for centuries and China is not actually doing despite the western accusations.

    I understand you don't like that, and I don't like it either.

    In many ways the west has been using the third world as a sweat shop, which means they don't want them to progress or develop because that means they lose their cheap expendable labour force. BRICS is all about lifting other countries up... spreading health and safety as well as work, but not inflicting your ideology on other countries... trade with them but let them make their own choices.

    Look at Qatar with the Soccer world cup... western countries complaining about the treatment of migrant workers building stadiums and alphabet people not being treated as gods and held in high regard... now complaining that alcohol wont be sold at the game venues during matches.

    Perhaps the next world cup the Qatar team can complain about the human rights in that country only allowing a man to marry one woman at a time... and now allowing 13 year olds to get married... and other horrible rights abuses... Rolling Eyes

    Or we could just say soccer is just a sport and not to be used as an instrument to impose western values on other countries.

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    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:07 am

    Some interesting news.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:05 pm

    According to the German industry group, every fourth enterprise may relocate abroad due to rising energy costs and inflation.

    Tanja Gönner, CEO of the Federation of German Industries (BDI), told Die Welt am Sonntag that one in every four German companies is considering moving production to other countries due to the energy crisis.

    "High energy prices and a weakening economy are wreaking havoc on the German economy, putting a significant burden on our companies in comparison to other international locations." The German business model is under severe strain... "Every fourth German company is considering outsourcing production," Gönner stated.

    "The exorbitant energy prices are crushing us...

    "Without a functioning price brake, the government is willingly accepting deindustrialization," he warned, adding that if the chemical industry fails, other industries will follow, which "could be a knockout blow for Germany as a business location."

    He went on to say that German industry requires "structural reforms, most notably the acceleration of planning and approval procedures and de-bureaucratization."
    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/plus242340497/Unternehmen-in-Energiekrise-Kann-der-K-o-fuer-den-Standort-Deutschland-sein.html


    https://t.me/azmilitary11/29576

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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:47 am

    Huge opportunity for Russia though... how about that Russian that developed the engine for the Yak-152 but moved production to Germany moves it back to Russia...

    That article says one in four German companies will move abroad, but it does not mention what happens to the three out of four that remain in Germany... do they collapse?

    How many other German companies sick of western politics want to make stuff and get cheap energy... and good infrastructure and skilled educated workforce?
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    Post  caveat emptor Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:02 pm

    I doubt any production will be moving to Russia with present sanctions. Most likely to US and some countries in Europe like Serbia or even Turkey.
    As for Raikhlin, he could have already moved by now, if he really wanted to. They never even localized a production of the engine and they had more than enough time. Production of RED engines was never located in Russia to begin with.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:50 am

    Well it sounds like they should immediately stop funding that guy and reverse engineer the examples of the engines they have in their possession... they paid for their development so they own them.

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    Post  caveat emptor Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:09 am

    Company is fully funded and it was a private Russian capital. Finam financed it, not Russian government. For whatever reason localization of production was never done, which is a pity, since it seems like engine designs are very good.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:00 am

    OK then steal the design.

    The west is trying to destroy Russia, why play by their rules when they don't even play by them for themselves?

    Do you think if they got hold of information about hypersonic missile technology that they would respect Russian IP rights and copyright?

    The engines in their helicopters technically belong to Motor Sich to a large degree even if they have updated and improved the design.

    The engine was most likely funded because those providing the money believed the engine would be used in the Yak-152 which made the success of the engine assured which makes it a good investment.

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    Post  caveat emptor Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:02 am

    Engine was financed because, at the time, there was a company in Kazan called MVEN, which got liquidated few years ago under suspicious circumstances and workers and part of the production was picked up on the cheap by oligarch Gregoriev ( think UZGA among other things). They had a small plane project similar to US Air tractor ( I don't remember model name). Raikhlin is also from Kazan. At the time, there was a push to build an aviation cluster in Kazan with many start ups in the field. I guess he saw what happened to most of them and went to Germany. It is not excluded that even FINAM, financier of the project, backed him in the endeavor, but that's only me speculating.
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:54 pm

    Engine was financed because, at the time, there was a company in Kazan called MVEN, which got liquidated few years ago under suspicious circumstances and workers and part of the production was picked up on the cheap by oligarch Gregoriev ( think UZGA among other things). They had a small plane project similar to US Air tractor ( I don't remember model name). Raikhlin is also from Kazan. At the time, there was a push to build an aviation cluster in Kazan with many start ups in the field. I guess he saw what happened to most of them and went to Germany. It is not excluded that even FINAM, financier of the project, backed him in the endeavor, but that's only me speculating.

    The T-500/Fermer-2

    There were plans to set up production in Kazakhstan or something too. Or maybe that was a different swindler aerospace startup from Kazan.

    Anyway. If the design for the engine is available, pass it on to another Russian company and let them make a copy. Raikhlin and his company can stay in Germany.

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    Post  ludovicense Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:20 pm

    I saw this article where "analyst" tries to give the idea that Russia's energetic trade relations with India will surpass those with China...

    Honestly: I have many doubts... I think it's even unlikely in the foreseeable near future, but there are the arguments...


    http://zububrothers.com/2022/11/30/russias-energy-geopolitics-with-china-india/

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    Post  lancelot Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:35 pm

    Russia has a border with China while trade with India would have to pass through US Navy infested waters. In the long run the trade with China is likely going to be way more stable.

    India is also severely relying on exports of goods and services to, not to mention remittances from, the West. This made then concede in the past to US demands to stop buying oil from Iran. So they are not long term reliable. I hope India will continue its trade relationship with Russia but I would not bet on it.

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    Post  caveat emptor Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:13 pm

    @FP
    As soon as some of the smaller companies tried to raise their head in this sector, Rostec or UZGA started to lean on them.
    It is a standard "business" practice in Russia. Even tried on some big players in other sectors.
    Anyway, in the case of RED engine, most they can do is to reverse engineer it, as design was never actually in Russia. As I said, it is my belief that either Raikhlin or Finam went this way (started company in Germany) on purpose.
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:21 pm

    India knows the West needs good relations with them more than ever at the moment

    And they have discovered that they have a bargaining position on that basis.

    They're not going to sacrifice trade and cheap energy from Russia in return for.. what exactly?

    While the West is not going to cut itself out of an enormous market on some gamble to pressure India with sanctions

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    Post  Swgman_BK Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:22 pm

    Russia has a border with China while trade with India would have to pass through US Navy infested waters. In the long run the trade with China is likely going to be way more stable. India is also severely relying on exports of goods and services to, not to mention remittances from, the West. This made then concede in the past to US demands to stop buying oil from Iran. So they are not long term reliable. I hope India will continue its trade relationship with Russia but I would not bet on it. wrote:

    Thats why the Caspian sea and Kazakhstan exist. Russia has cultivated networks through Iran and Kazakhstan as well as the other Stans.

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    Post  caveat emptor Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:47 pm

    Only Iran. Kazakhstan and other stans are not really connected with India. In any case, everything would have to go through Pakistan and that is not highely likely. So, it will be either via commodity swap with Iran or seaborne via Malacca strait. At present time, Indians are banking on latter.

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    Post  Kiko Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:19 pm

    The Global South Births a New Game-Changing Payment System, by Pepe Escobar for the Unz Review. 11.30.2022.

    The Eurasia Economic Union (EAEU) is speeding up its design of a common payment system, which has been closely discussed for nearly a year with the Chinese under the stewardship of Sergei Glazyev, the EAEU’s minister in charge of Integration and Macro-economy.

    Through its regulatory body, the Eurasian Economic Commission (EEC), the EAEU has just extended a very serious proposal to the BRICS nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) which, crucially, are already on the way to turning into BRICS+: a sort of G20 of the Global South.

    The system will include a single payment card – in direct competition with Visa and Mastercard – merging the already existing Russian MIR, China’s UnionPay, India’s RuPay, Brazil’s Elo, and others.

    That will represent a direct challenge to the western-designed (and enforced) monetary system, head on. And it comes on the heels of BRICS members already transacting their bilateral trade in local currencies, and bypassing the US dollar.
    This EAEU-BRICS union was long in the making – and will now also move toward prefiguring a further geoeconomic merger with the member nations of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO).

    The EAEU was established in 2015 as a customs union of Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus, joined a year later by Armenia and Kyrgyzstan. Vietnam is already an EAEU free trade partner, and recently enshrined SCO member Iran is also clinching a deal.

    The EAEU is designed to implement free movement of goods, services, capital, and workers between member countries. Ukraine would have been an EAEU member if not for the Maidan coup in 2014 masterminded by the Barack Obama administration.

    Vladimir Kovalyov, adviser to the chairman of the EEC, summed it all up to Russian newspaper Izvestia. The focus is to establish a joint financial market, and the priority is to develop a common “exchange space:” “We’ve made substantial progress and now the work is focused on such sectors as banking, insurance, and the stock market.”

    A new regulatory body for the proposed joint EEU-BRICS financial system will soon be established.

    Meanwhile, trade and economic cooperation between the EAEU and BRICS have increased 1.5 times in the first half of 2022 alone.

    The BRICS share in the total external trade turnover of the EAEU has reached 30 percent, Kovalyov revealed at the BRICS International Business Forum this past Monday in Moscow:

    “It is advisable to combine the potentials of the BRICS and EAEU macro-financial development institutions, in particular the BRICS New Development Bank, the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB), as well as national development institutions. This will make it possible to achieve a synergistic effect and ensure synchronous investments in sustainable infrastructure, innovative production, and renewable energy sources.”

    Here we once again see the advancing convergence of not only BRICS and EAEU but also the financial institutions deeply involved in projects under the China-led New Silk Roads, or Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

    Halting the Age of Plunder

    As if all that was not game-changing enough, Russian President Vladimir Putin is raising the stakes by calling for a new international payment system based on blockchain and digital currencies.

    The project for such a system was recently presented at the 1st Eurasian Economic Forum in Bishkek.

    At the forum, the EAEU approved a draft agreement on cross-border placement and circulation of securities in member states, and amended technical regulations.

    The next big step is to organize the agenda of a crucial meeting of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council on 14 December in Moscow. Putin will be there – in person. And there’s nothing he would love more than to make a game-changing announcement.

    All of these moves acquire even more importance as they connect to fast increasing, interlocking trade between Russia, China, India, and Iran: from Russia’s drive to build new pipelines serving its Chinese market – to Russia, Kazakhstan, and Uzbekistan discussing a gas union for both domestic supplies and exports, especially to main client China.

    Slowly but surely, what is emerging is the Big Picture of an irretrievably fractured world featuring a dual trade/circulation system: one will be revolving around the remnants of the dollar system, the other is being built centered on the association of BRICS, EAEU, and SCO.

    Pushing further on down the road, the recent pathetic metaphor coined by a tawdry Eurocrat boss: the “jungle” is breaking away from the “garden” with a vengeance. May the fracture persist, as a new international payment system – and then a new currency – will aim to halt for good the western-centric Age of Plunder.

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/the-global-south-births-a-new-game-changing-payment-system/

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    Post  ludovicense Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:49 pm

    This movement is much bigger than you can imagine... it could break the US. The economy of the Americans is financed by the bonds that they sell in the world, since they have monthly budget deficits... With the new system of payments based on several currencies, the demand for the dollar will drop drastically because it is certain that, when the system is working, countries of the Africa, South America and the Middle East will flock to it. The confiscation of Russian reserves was a mistake, but they did it because they believed it would crash the Russian economy. Once again the economic analysts failed and now the achievements are starting to come... no one trusts the Dollar / Euro anymore....

    Bearing in mind that without the sale of securities, the US would simply be left to print money, which would generate uncontrolled inflation, or make massive cutbacks in spending to balance the accounts, which would imply huge cuts in the values of the military industrial complex.

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