Russia has all the aces in its hand, including EU and particularly Germany. So play the hand beautifully!
Russia and economic war by the west #2
Kiko- Posts : 1935
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- Post n°776
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
Russia has all the aces in its hand, including EU and particularly Germany. So play the hand beautifully!
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GarryB- Posts : 35764
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- Post n°777
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
During the interview, Hersh called the Nord Stream bombing a diversion directed against Europe in order to demonstrate its absolute dependence on the United States.
But it is more than just that... it is the US trying to weaken its own ally who is getting too strong and power and independent... if they get all the cheap energy they need Americas opportunities to influence diminishes... the US would know that Germany knows they did it... whether they did it directly in secret like the pussies they are, or through their bitches who do as they command... ie the Norwaywegians, or the Poms... or any of their lackeys in the HATO block... hell they might have even convinced the German Navy to do it with promises of more funding for defence and less neglect that is leaving Germany and Europe exposed to Russian aggression... ignoring the fact that the actual problem for the west is US aggression.
And not just Germany... cutting away potential supply for cheap energy weakens the entire EU block... is the US really going to claim that was to reduce Russias revenue from the gas sales to Europe?
It is like threats for Finland and Sweden to join HATO.... DO IT... I double dare you... in 5 years time you will realise it is a mistake but by then it will be too late because you will have shifted category from neutral go between trading with both sides to Americas bitch... how much trade will you have with the rest of Europe when they have energy problems? US troops in Japan have not made the world a safer place for young women...
Putin is lucky that the west are basically destroying themselves by doing what comes naturally to them... economic problems... well the solution is always a war and an arms race, but that solution is good for the arms makers and their stock holders and not so good for the general population... especially when this opponent can reach out and touch all of us.
Russia has all the aces in its hand, including EU and particularly Germany. So play the hand beautifully!
20 years of playing cards with weak hands has sharpened Russias skills... now there are fewer and fewer chips to play for things are just getting interesting.
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- Post n°778
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
franco- Posts : 5862
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- Post n°779
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
Residents of Bulgaria expressed surprise at the increase in Russian gas supplies to Europe via the Turkish Stream against the backdrop of statements by European politicians about independence from blue fuel from the Russian Federation. This is reported by the Bulgarian portal "Dnevnik".
Bulgarians are amazed that European countries are buying oil, gas, nuclear fuel and technology from Russia, despite their own sanctions against Moscow. This is done with the help of third countries de jure, but de facto export supplies go to the European region from Russia.
Experts previously noted that in January 2023, Gazprom increased sales of blue fuel to European countries via Turkish Stream by 17%.


https://inforeactor-ru.translate.goog/23901274-bolgari_udivilis_rostu_ob_emov_eksporta_gaza_iz_rossii_v_evropu?utm_source=finobzor.ru&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en
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- Post n°780
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
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- Post n°781
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
Bulgarians surprised by growth in gas exports from Russia to Europe
But to be clear their amazing free and independent media has not educated them to the fact that Russia has energy and Europe needs energy and Europe can play a song and dance about not using Russian energy by giving the local kid 50 euro to go to the Russian fuel station to buy their gas and petrol and other energy sources and bring them over to Europe so they can pretend they are not buying Russian energy any more... the local kid being Indian or Chinese and happy to make money from these

The reason they don't spell it out to their population is because it is ridiculous and is a terrible waste of their money to buy the same energy at higher prices with greater delays and a larger carbon footprint so to speak.
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- Post n°782
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
The head of the Union of Polish Horticulturalists Maliszewski announced the collapse of the apple market due to the Moscow embargo.
MOSCOW, February 21 - RIA Novosti. New sales markets for Polish apples do not compensate for losses due to the ban on exports to Russia, which is why the local market has "already collapsed" and producers need government help, Miroslav Maliszewski, president of the Union of Polish Horticulturalists, said in an interview with Interia.
“The Polish apple market has already collapsed. The main reason is the ban on trade with Russia, which has been buying a huge amount of these fruits from us for decades. This was our chance, which we used one hundred percent.
According to him, new export destinations, such as Egypt , made it possible to partially replace the Russian market, but the economic difficulties that are emerging in the countries greatly slow down trade.
“In almost all popular apple markets, we are among the top three suppliers. However, this is still not enough to replace the Russian market lost as a result of the embargo,” Malishevsky complained.
He added that in the current situation, the Union of Polish Horticulturalists requires the introduction of emergency mechanisms of state assistance. At the same time, Malishevsky noticed that due to problems, many gardeners begin to uproot even young trees.
"And there is nothing to be surprised here. There is a certain limit of strength, including economic. You won't last long without profit," the head of the association stated.
In August 2014, Russia banned the import of certain types of agricultural products, raw materials and food from countries that imposed anti-Russian sanctions, and headed for import substitution. The ban includes meat, sausages, fish and seafood, vegetables, fruits, dairy and some other products whose country of origin is the USA , EU countries, Canada , Australia, Norway, Ukraine , Albania, Montenegro, Iceland, Liechtenstein, and the UK.
https://ria.ru/20230221/kollaps-1853309769.html
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d_taddei2- Posts : 2721
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- Post n°783
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
Russia's economy shrinks by less than expected
Russia's economy shrank last year by less than had been expected given its invasion of Ukraine, figures suggest.
The economy contracted by 2.1%, according to the country's statistics agency, but this was less than an earlier prediction of a 12% fall.
While questions have been raised about the reliability of the data, many commentators have been surprised at the Russian economy's resilience.
High oil prices and military spending have helped to support the economy.
After the invasion, hundreds of Western firms withdrew from Russia. The initial shock forced the stock market in Russia to close temporarily and saw the rouble tumble as people queued up at cash machines.
The Institute for International Finance had predicted the Russian economy would shrink by 15% in 2022 and last March, US President Joe Biden said it was "on track to be cut in half".
However, for most of 2022, Russia was able to continue exporting energy.
Western limits to energy exports were only applied gradually during the year, and while imports to Europe fell sharply during the year, a steady stream of buyers in China, India and elsewhere stepped in to buy up the oil which Europe would not.
Rising global prices for oil, gas, petroleum products and other Russian exports, including food and fertilizers, helped to boost Russia's export revenues.
While hundreds of Western companies withdrew from Russia, local entrepreneurs picked up the slack. After McDonald's sold its restaurants there, for instance, the new owner reopened them in June under a new name "Vkusno i Tochka", meaning "Tasty and That's It."
Although manufacturing and retail trade were some of the sectors which saw a decline in 2022, agriculture, construction and hospitality all grew, according to Russia's federal statistics service.
Producing equipment for Russia's armed forces has also kept the country's factories busy, boosting the economy by making weapons instead of cars. Military security and public administration expanded by 4.1% last year.
The sanctions imposed have also been far from watertight. Despite attempts to isolate Russia from the Western financial system, traders have found ways to get money into and out of Russia, through barter, routing transactions through countries which are not taking part in sanctions, or even using cryptocurrencies.
That is not to say that sanctions have not made a significant dent - and some of the impact will be long term.
Difficulty getting high-tech imports such as microchips will hold back manufacturing.
Experts expect output from oil and gas fields to decline over time without investment, know-how and equipment from the West.
The Russian government is predicting that the economy will shrink by 0.8%, but the International Monetary Fund reckons it will grow by 0.3%, partly because of the strength of its exports.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64708832
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- Post n°784
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
https://rtd.rt.com/films/apples-of-discord-cost-russian-sanctions-eu-farmers/
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- Post n°785
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
Germany shamed the whole world because of the fear of the United States, by Gevorg Mirzayan for VZGLYAD. 02.22.2023.
The UN Security Council held a discussion of one of the largest terrorist attacks of recent times - the blowing up of two Nord Stream gas pipelines. It would seem that the attention of the whole world, and especially Germany, as the most affected country, should be riveted to this event. But no - Germany is silent even after sensational reports of direct involvement in the terrorist attack of the United States of America. Why?
The explosion of the Nord Stream and Nord Stream 2 gas pipelines reached the level of the UN Security Council - at the initiative of Moscow, a special meeting of the Security Council was held on this topic.
Russia's Permanent Representative to the UN Vasily Nebenzya directly pointed to the organizer and perpetrator of the terrorist attack - the United States. According to Nebenzi, the evidence and direct indications of the American trail is "even more than the smoking gun that all American detectives dream of finding in Hollywood blockbusters." He criticized "those, so to speak, investigations" conducted by Denmark, Sweden and Germany. Nebenzia pointed out that the investigations are "not just not transparent", but are carried out with the aim of "covering the tracks and shielding the older American brother."
However, while the Russian Federation is trying to bring the perpetrators to justice, the FRG is silent on the sidelines. And this is surprising, because Germany is the second party after Russia to suffer from the Nord Stream explosions. Explosions that deprived Germany of the future.
First, economic. Yes, Germany has taken a course towards abandoning Russian hydrocarbons and even succeeded in this. However, this course (providing for the transition to coal and LNG) will cost Germany almost 50 billion euros, and it is not certain that even with such costs it will be successful. "Flows" also allowed to roll back the situation at any time. In particular, after reconciliation with Moscow, return to the consumption of cheap and reliable (that is, independent of Ukrainian transit) Russian gas, which is one of the foundations of German industry.
Secondly, political. And it's not even that Nord Stream allowed Germany to become a transit country for Russian gas for the countries of Central Europe. And not even that the gas pipeline was the most important symbol of the Russian-German strategic partnership. And the fact that he was an example of subjectivity in Germany. An object of national interest, which the same Angela Merkel defended before Trump and Biden - and at some point it seemed that she defended it. Thus confirming his reputation as the strongest European politician.
Now, after the explosions of gas pipelines, the Americans, as Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov correctly noted, have finally resolved the German issue. They did so "so that Germany would never try to play some kind of independent role in the foreseeable historical perspective."
"No Evidence"
It would seem that with all these inputs, the reaction of the Federal Republic of Germany should be extremely tough. However, she is not.
Yes, part of the population is indignant - but only a part. “Supporters of the Alternative for Germany and the Leftists condemned the attack,” Vadim Trukhachev, associate professor at the Russian State Humanitarian University, explains to the VZGLYAD newspaper. – However, supporters of the “green” and free democrats (both parties are now in the ruling coalition - approx. VIEW), on the contrary, supported the explosions - they initially opposed the creation of Nord Stream 2.
As for the leading German press, it certainly does not support the terrorist act against Germany, but it does not blame the Americans for it either.
Even after a sensational article by one of the leading American investigative journalists, Seymour Hersh. In it, we recall, he tells in detail how, on the direct orders of Biden, the special services and the US military organized and carried out this sabotage.
Seymour Hersh "without any evidence and citing a single anonymous source wrote that US Navy divers were responsible for the explosions of a gas pipeline in the Baltic Sea," according to Westfalen-Blatt. “Hersh has little evidence. And his article caused a stir, not least because the official bodies keep an iron silence,” writes the German Die Welt.
“The weak point of the article is the motive. Why would the US blow up the pipeline at a time when Germany has already decided to phase out Russian gas supplies?” asks Handelsblatt, ignoring the version that the Germans were not left with the opportunity to roll back the situation after they realized the suicidal nature of such a refusal. No, according to the publication, the motive was just in Russia. “The fact that one Nord Stream 2 pipe remained intact would allow Moscow, in an energy emergency, to offer Germany a life-saving gas supply and possibly force it to launch Nord Stream 2,” continues Handelsblatt.
This position of the leading German media is not surprising. For many years, journalists from the main German publications have clearly followed the agenda set by their American colleagues. And they are masters of interpreting facts in the interests of anyone but Germany.
So, for example, the German media cannot help but wonder how much the war arranged by Zelensky and Biden cost the German economy and the European Union as a whole. For Germany, in particular, the losses amounted to about 4% of GDP (or two thousand euros per citizen).
Silent Scholz
As for the reaction of the German authorities, they, of course, formally launched their own investigation. The prosecutor's office reported that they took samples of water and soil, as well as fragments of pipelines at the sites of explosions - and are now conducting all the examinations.
In addition, Germany participated in the creation within NATO of a special coordination group for the protection of maritime infrastructure, which will be headed by retired German General Hans-Werner Wiermann. Like, in order not to repeat the story of the explosions of the Nord Streams.
But how can you protect the infrastructure along with those who blew it up? And the investigation, most likely, will not give any clear answer - it is unlikely that the Germans will find the inscription “Joe B. was here” on the wreckage of pipelines.
Such a position of Scholz, of course, will cost him a rating - already low. Thus, in the elections to the Legislative Assembly of Berlin, which took place in February, the CDU won, while Scholz's Social Democrats received the worst result in several decades. And if early elections to the Bundestag are held in Germany in the near future (for example, in the event of a collapse of the coalition), it is unlikely that the SPD will be able to form the next government.
Scholz understands all this - but still does not risk making loud statements against the United States. Neither in response to gas pipeline explosions, nor in response to the deception with the Abrams (when the Americans announced the supply of tanks to encourage the Germans to follow suit with their Leopards, and then said that the Abrams would not be soon - thereby making Berlin the first to cross this tank red line), nor on other issues. Simply because the current German Chancellor is not Angela Merkel. And he cannot go across the American position.
However, it is possible that Washington's game here is more difficult - and more humiliating for Berlin.
“The German silence has another explanation. There is a version that, in fact, the "Streams" were blown up by the British. And then, through the former Minister of Foreign Affairs of Poland, Radoslav Sikorsky (who thanked the Americans for the bombings), and also now through Seymour Hersh, the topic is transferred to the Americans, Dmitry Ofitserov-Belsky, senior researcher at IMEMO RAS, explains to the VZGLYAD newspaper. - The logic here is clear. The Germans can get angry at the British and try to take revenge. And the Americans will be afraid to take revenge on them.”
https://vz.ru/world/2023/2/22/1200328.html
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- Post n°786
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
De-dollarisation is the big question.
Much of the "Third World" (as it used to be called) is deep in debt to the usual suspects in Wall Street. And this debt is in dollars ('..the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development reminded the world at the end of last year, between 70% and 85% of developing country debt is denominated in a foreign currency) which have been rapidly appreciating in value since the beginning of the pandemic and the freezing of world trade, which left many poor countries unable to sell their commodities except at ruinous discounts. As a result their debt burden rose.
We are at the stage when the financiers have to realise that those who can't pay won't pay. And humanity insists that those who can't pay without implementing austerity programmes that kill millions of, for the most part, kids should not even attempt to pay.
And what this means is that in the clash between the World and Wall Street that must come, there is going to be an irresistible temptation to refuse to pay the debt. A debt which, in any case, is almost certainly odious.
"...https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/02/cost-of-living-crisis-global-south-debt-restructuring-poverty"
In other words the governments of most of the world's population have a real and very justifiable reason to repudiate their dollar debt.
In an era in which the governors of Wall St have already explained that states can be justified in stealing Afghan, Venezuelan, Russian, Iranian and other currency reserves and other assets, the principle of state action against financiers is well established.
A general debt repudiation, together with the development of an alternative currency system for trade and investment could kill the dollar in a very short time.
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- Post n°787
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
sepheronx- Posts : 8036
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- Post n°788
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
A huge portion of its tech industry is also geared towards Military, Space, education and big industry. So obtaining the Electronica by average day people isn't easy. Instead most of it is dealt by importing.
Most people don't bother to do research on it and just assume Russia doesn't make anything.
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AlfaT8- Posts : 2312
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- Post n°789
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
Its utterly ridiculous.
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sepheronx- Posts : 8036
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- Post n°790
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
These people aren't smart enough to know what a microprocessor is, how its made, who makes them, who has the equipment to make them, which foundries are currently operational and so on.
Honestly, it isn't really all that bad that these people have no idea about them. It ends up being a massive headache of a guessing game for them and not knowing. So they assume and make many mistakes and wonder "how is Russia still getting the chips to make them?"
I and a few others have already posted much about the foundries, what is actually made and so on. But we can keep it here and maybe, someone who is a "journalist" with some form of integrity will eventually stumble upon the thread and get a clue.
But I imagine we will be waiting a while for that to happen.
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Kiko- Posts : 1935
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- Post n°791
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
Hersh: the United States explained the undermining of the "Nord Streams" by the need to support NATO by Europe.
MOSCOW, February 23 - RIA Novosti. The Joe Biden administration explained the bombings of Nord Stream by the need to force Europe to continue to support NATO, American journalist Seymour Hersh said in an interview on RT.
"He (Biden. - Ed.) did this in order to prevent Germany and Western Europe from opening the pipeline (Nord Stream 2) with the rapid onset of winter. The German authorities imposed sanctions to stop the pipeline, but they had to open a new one," the journalist explained.
That is the purpose of the mission, he said: The US is making sure that Europe does not stop supporting the North Atlantic alliance and supplying weapons in what is "absolutely a proxy war against Russia."
Seymour Hersh is a famous American journalist, winner of the Pulitzer Prize (1970) for his investigation into the massacre of unarmed civilians by American soldiers during the Vietnam War.
In early February, he published an investigation into the Nord Stream explosions . According to Hersh, American divers planted explosives under gas pipelines last summer during the Baltops 2022 exercise, and three months later the Norwegians set it off. Moreover, Biden decided on sabotage after more than nine months of secret discussions with the national security team.
The reason for the sabotage, according to the journalist, was the fears of the head of the White House that Germany , which receives gas from Russia through the Nord Streams, would not want to participate in military assistance to Ukraine. Washington denies these allegations.
The attacks on Nord Stream and Nord Stream 2, Russian export pipelines under the Baltic Sea, took place on September 26. Then a gas leak was discovered at once in four places. Sweden , Denmark and Germany are conducting investigations, but they have not yet led to any concrete results. The Kremlin called the accident an act of international terrorism.
https://ria.ru/20230223/podryv-1854056366.html
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andalusia- Posts : 671
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- Post n°792
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
I post this article because quite a few Georgists tried to help the stuggling former Soviet Union in the 1990's, recommending various solutions, and with varying degrees of success.
But this article especially, in my opinion, gave Putin some valuable secrets about land rents, which he used to build up his military, and will continue to use.
And since Russia has vast land holdings, and vast opportunity to fund itself through vast potential land rents, the U.S. will ultimately not be able to compete if it continues to fund the billionaire class instead.
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JUKdhr9ictEJ:https://www.masongaffney.org/workpapers/WP080%2520Taxable%2520Surplus%2520in%2520Russian%2520Land.pdf&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d
"Plundering Russia's Natural Wealth," another important paper by Gaffney,
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NGs1xHUxZuZhC9rNnsDfDVMum9q1MC0V/edit?fbclid=IwAR1i1nRA5mI9zwrCZh1oaivnE5iWlggjSk6bgARM-4IDlghwv6DGlX0MC8M
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Kiko- Posts : 1935
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- Post n°793
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
For a whole year now, the country has been under powerful pressure. Sanctions, the exit of Western companies, the destruction of supply chains, the freezing of reserves - in the West, they were sure that Russia would soon collapse. However, the economy persevered, shrinking by only 2.5%. How it was possible to overcome such a difficult period with minimal losses and what to expect next - in the material of RIA Novosti.
The crash didn't happen
In the spring of 2022, the forecasts of the leading financial institutions were amazing. Thus, Goldman Sachs predicted a collapse of the Russian economy by ten percent, the World Bank - by eleven.
Economists at the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development have warned of the country's deepest recession in 30 years. Capital Economics was expecting a fall of 12%, and the analytical center of the Institute of International Finance (IIF) - 15%.
The Bank of Russia was also pessimistic: minus 8-10%.
All key macroeconomic parameters, of course, should have deteriorated. They predicted exorbitant inflation - 23%. Indeed, in April it reached 17.8%, but at the end of the year it was 12.4%. In 2023, they expect a return to the target 4%.
There was no shortage of foreign trade at all. On the contrary, the surplus doubled. The positive balance in January-November is $269.8 billion, 1.9 times more than a year earlier.
The country's economy has demonstrated a very high margin of safety. GDP decreased by only 2.1%, Rosstat summed up. The assessment of the Central Bank is 2.5%.
The International Monetary Fund acknowledged that Russia suffered less from the sanctions than expected, and growth will begin as early as 2023.
Real sector
Production has not collapsed. Although the logistics chains built over the years collapsed, exports were quickly reoriented.
The peak of the decline in the index of industrial activity occurred in the second quarter against the backdrop of the main wave of Western sanctions. But since mid-summer, the dynamics have been positive. In November, the indicator reached its highest level since 2017. At the end of the year - only minus 0.6%.
"The key factors that made it possible not to collapse GDP are the contribution of two large sectors, agriculture and construction, which together added 1.2%, while the rest of the sectors combined gave minus 5.5," says Evgeny Shatov, partner at Capital Lab.
The development of the real sector is also evidenced by a strong increase in capital expenditures - 6%, while a decline of 20% was expected. Large and small companies spent money on replacing imported equipment and software, and restructuring logistics for alternative markets.
The departure of Western companies freed up many market niches, and business immediately took advantage of this. New private enterprises were also created - this was facilitated by state loans and subsidies.
"Russian companies have had to endure what the Central Bank calls a “structural transformation” of the economy besieged by sanctions. Therefore, the predictions of an imminent economic collapse that sounded at the end of February 2022 did not come true,” writes Bloomberg .
Oil and gas revenues
In particular, the oil and gas sector helped attract capital to the budget of the government and companies, providing businesses with a powerful source of investment. The main Russian exports were only going up in price, primarily hydrocarbons. While physical sales volumes have declined, revenues have increased.
"Production capacities and communications were supported by state orders. They planned to allocate 29 trillion rubles from the budget, as a result, it turned out to be 31.1. This contributed to the adaptability of the economy,” points out Vladimir Kovalev, an analyst at TeleTrade.
The Ministry of Finance calculated: the treasury received 10.7 trillion rubles from the sale of hydrocarbons. In general, the budget in January-November was executed with a surplus of 557 billion. Revenues - 24.7 trillion, 99% of the figure approved in the law for 2022-2024. The Ministry of Finance estimated expenses for 11 months at 24.2 trillion.
Experts predict that the reduction in the supply of oil on the world market will raise quotes to $100-120 per barrel and higher.
Ruble under control
The initial shock of the spring of 2022 was smoothed out by the government’s economic bloc with prompt and precise actions.
"A full-scale monetary and financial crisis could disorient the economy, lead to the collapse of the banking system, very strong inflation and devaluation. This was not allowed," Kovalev notes.
The Central Bank not only stabilized, but also strengthened the ruble to a record high, maneuvering the key rate and introducing a number of restrictions on the foreign exchange market.
As a result, the national currency practically did not react in any way to the consistent tightening of Western restrictions, the freezing of reserves, and prohibitions in the oil and gas sector.
The fluctuations were strong - from 120 to 50 per dollar. But in the end, the ruble surprised the whole world and was in first place among the 36 major currencies in the ranking of changes in value against the US dollar.
What's next
It is too early to talk about a confident recovery. This year will be difficult, especially the second and third quarters. The risks of economic contraction and the delayed effect of sanctions remain. With the current negative dynamics, we have a safety margin of about a year and a half.
"The financial sector will most likely make a positive contribution due to the low base of 2022," Yevgeny Shatov believes.
"Due to sanctions, embargoes, difficulties in redirecting hydrocarbon flows from Western markets, a reduction in energy production is likely. A rather significant factor is a decrease in domestic demand,” adds Kovalev.
However, analysts emphasize, reserves, budget allocations, and alternative imports will help.
The Ministry of Economic Development expects a minimum decrease in GDP in 2023 - 0.8%. But global financial institutions are now even more optimistic than the Russian government. According to the February estimates of the International Monetary Fund, the country's economy will add 0.3% this year.
https://ria.ru/20230224/ekonomika-1853857484.html
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GarryB- Posts : 35764
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- Post n°794
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
That is why it is funny regarding western sanctions... it takes a lot of investment and time and effort to enter a new market and western countries invested a lot of money to enter the Russian market but they did so because they saw a young fresh relatively open market where they could get established and dominate and make a lot of money from... and western sanctions have destroyed that dream and cost western companies wanting to enter the Russian market billions of dollars they are not likely to get back.
More importantly the money and time and knowhow invested is now in the Russian market... Russian owners are now in charge of essentially McDonalds fast food places... and now they can adapt them any way they please... essentially they have given Russian businessmen a good look inside their business and how it works and then cut them off to change it as they please so if McDonalds ever gets the chance to reenter the Russian market there is a good chance they will come up against a Russianised version of McDonalds which might always appeal more than anything McDs can offer... and they invested the money to create their nemesis.
But just as important instead of trying to penetrate the western market, finding markets in other countries around the world will be easier and likely also more profitable and with less restrictions on you just because you are Russian.
This is very good for Russia and for the rest of the world because the rest of the world can see that countries cut off from western markets can survive too and by trading with them you can make your own rules to suit your own people... so no accepting GMO food because the US demands it.
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GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5679
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- Post n°795
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
GB wrote:But that is the myth... the west thinks it is the world and if they cut off a country that country will wither and die, but the reality is that there are plenty of other countries around the world and often in a growing new market .
They assume that twisting hands blackmailing or threatening of "democratic" intervention countries who would cooperate is enough to keep country backwards or die. It probably would be the case 30-20 years ago. Iraq - 500, 000 children died in the name of "US democracy"...
GB wrote:That is why it is funny regarding western sanctions... it takes a lot of investment and time and effort to enter a new market and western countries invested a lot of money to enter the Russian market but they did so because they saw a young fresh relatively open market where they could get established and dominate and make a lot of money from... and western sanctions have destroyed that dream and cost western companies wanting to enter the Russian market billions of dollars they are not likely to get back.
absolutely correct yet it wont kill west either. There are loses on both sides yet nobody is going to die from it, Not yet at least. The geopolitical situation changes dramatically tough. Russia survicing and still going forward is a symbol of hope for smaller more west dependent countries IMHO. a very important symbol.
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Hole- Posts : 8790
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- Post n°796
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2

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GarryB- Posts : 35764
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- Post n°797
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
absolutely correct yet it wont kill west either. There are loses on both sides yet nobody is going to die from it, Not yet at least. The geopolitical situation changes dramatically tough. Russia survicing and still going forward is a symbol of hope for smaller more west dependent countries IMHO. a very important symbol.
But the claim during the cold war was that western workers were more efficient... more likely to go the extra mile to make the customer happy... they just worked harder... but actually a combination of cheaper energy and colonial control of large parts of the world and trade agreements that are tipped in their favour the west has had it easy for a long time.
They were making money on their own trade, but also everyone elses... as shown by the fact that oil transport and shipping insurance was a european dominated field even just a few months ago, so even the money Russia was making shipping oil around the world meant Europe was earning money on insurance and shipping...
Likely not any more.
Many major exchanges and markets and economic centres are in the west... New York, London, even Hong Kong til the start of this century... all western controlled...
Countries the west used to buy stuff from for peanuts is going to get competition from other countries like India and China and Russia etc... all making better offers and able to supply the technology the west used to supply to make things work.
Of course it is not going to kill the west... if Russia and China wanted to destroy the west why did they spend trillions developing trade routes from Asia to the EU and back on land in the sea and by air?
Of course the EU has burned the air routes for itself and Russia, but Russia can use these land and sea routes to asia and continue them past the EU to Africa if they want to... I was going to say screw Europe... and it seems the US really has by getting them to kill Russians in the Ukraine.
According to a Blomberg article Russia is selling oil for an average price of 74$ a barrel, China is paying even 82$.
Even better, dollars wont be involved... hopefully they wont even be sold through western brokers and western currencies wont even come in to it... it can all be rubles and yuan and other currencies both sides of the deal are happy with.
There will be non western alternatives for most technology and in some areas their technology will be every bit as good if not better than western technology too... the world will finally get a real choice.
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owais.usmani- Posts : 1596
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- Post n°798
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
Academics: Russia Selling Oil Way Over Price Cap
Russia raked in significantly more money from its crude oil sales than previously thought, a group of academics have said.
Russia took in more money in the weeks that followed the oil price cap implemented on December 5 last year, calculations from academics at the Institute of International Finance, Columbia University, and the University of California show.
The calculations show that Russia sold its crude oil for about $74 per barrel on average, according to the paper “Assessing the Impact of International Sanctions on Russian Oil Exports” published on the Social Science Research Network.
The paper studied two things: the effects of the EU embargo and the G7 price cap on Russian seaborne crude oil.
“We find that Russia was able to redirect crude oil exports from Europe to alternative markets such as India, China, and Turkey but that export earnings were curbed substantially by the sizable discounts that Russian exporters had to accept in market segments where the impending EU embargo lowered demand.”
“However,” the report goes on to say, “we do not find crude oil discounts as large as those reflected in Urals prices toward the end of 2022. In particular, prices in market segments that are unaffected by lower European demand, e.g., exports from Russia’s Pacific Ocean ports, have not dropped in a meaningful way and shipments do not appear to comply with the price cap.”
“Moreover, our surprising finding of a significant share of Russian crude oil being sold well-above the price cap level of $60 a barrel urgently calls for further investigation of these transactions and reinforces the need for stepped-up enforcement,” the authors said, and recommended that ‘the price caps on crude oil should be lowered as soon as possible.”
The analysis covered the four weeks following the implementation of the price cap.

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flamming_python- Posts : 8318
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- Post n°799
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
“Moreover, our surprising finding of a significant share of Russian crude oil being sold well-above the price cap level of $60 a barrel urgently calls for further investigation of these transactions and reinforces the need for stepped-up enforcement,” the authors said, and recommended that ‘the price caps on crude oil should be lowered as soon as possible.”
Suckers
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- Post n°800
Re: Russia and economic war by the west #2
The price caps didn't work as countries continue to buy Russia's oil well above the level set, so the solution is lower the cap price since the 1st price cap worked so well to begin with? Russia is truly blessed with abundant natural resources and incompetent adversaries.“Moreover, our surprising finding of a significant share of Russian crude oil being sold well-above the price cap level of $60 a barrel urgently calls for further investigation of these transactions and reinforces the need for stepped-up enforcement,” the authors said, and recommended that ‘the price caps on crude oil should be lowered as soon as possible.”
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