flamming_python wrote:sundoesntrise wrote:flamming_python wrote:History never stops PD, neither do the evolution of governance and economic systems.
You really think that Russia will survive by becoming a police state which represses anyone who acts to produce an alternative..
That's what laid the groundwork for such a revolution in 1917 in the first place. Although yes, Russia never learns.
Lenin 'slithered by' because Kerensky's policy at the time was "no enemies to the left". However this was only logical, given the fact that various socialist parties were dominating the political landscape and the provisional government needed to build-up legitimacy.
In the end however they ended up outmanuevered and thrown out of power
Similarly, as how Russian liberals in the decades prior would pay for the legal defense of Marxists and revolutionaries that were tried by Tsarist authorities. The liberals thought they were being the clever ones here, and wanted to use the socialists as useful idiots in their fight for the liberalization of Russia or its transformation into a republic.
They also turned out as nothing other than losers who got outplayed.
Let's not pretend the Bolshewik Revolution was an organic one.
It was a small group of radicals funded front center and back by Wall Street. Jacob Schiff (the grandpa of) admitted this himself. Equally foreign intelligence services held great sway over Madman Lenin. Read Anthony Sutton's Wall Street and the Bolshewik Revolution
It was the proto-type color revolution. Commies can't deal with these Truths and cling onto outdated beliefs about 'worker uprisings'.
Putin, with all his shortcomings, is dead right to clamp down on these clowns.
Ah yes the ol' Lenin was a German spy gag
If you actually read Russian history, you would know, that socialism and Marxism indeed developed as a fringe movement, but it was something new and provided a framework of answers for people's misery at the time. It was not contained to Russia. Marx and Engels themselves of course. The Paris Commune. The German socialist movement.
Then in the 50 years preceding the revolution you had the rise of left-wing activism in the Russian Empire. You had arson attacks, terrorism, sabotage of industries. The assassination of Alexander II.
You had the 1st Russian revolution in 1905-1907, the demands of which gained a lot of popularity. You had the creation of the first Soviets during that time. Trade unions, mass strikes. A huge amount of intellectuals and theoreticians developing their ideas and building on Marxism, and again hardly only in Russia.
After the February revolution, all these various strands of socialism and worker's movements were dominating the political landscape. Bolsheviks, Mensheviks, Social-Revolutionary Party, Anarchists, and so on. In such a situation even the centre and right-wing parties were forced to adopt some popular left-wing demands. The continuing war only radicalized people and eventually the faction with the most radical program and determination to seize power won out.
As for who was funding who - so what?
You can co-operate with someone who doesn't share your ideals and that you can't control for one reason - you have a temporary common objective of some kind.
For the CIA and Bin Laden that objective was forcing the USSR to leave Afghanistan.
In the case of the Germans and Lenin it was forcing Russia out of the war.
And both the CIA and Germans achieved their goals in that regard. They were professionals and thought things through.
Whereas any other idiot who might have given Lenin money in the belief that they could control him were forgotten about as soon as his train pulled into Petrograd. Not how the game works.
You know your stuff and bring up great points but it needs to be weighed in the balance of foreign adventurism and interventionism. Kazakhstan not only needs to provide for the commonwealth but it has to battle NGOs and outside hostile elements. it needs to be stern with subversives backed by outsiders so it is a very difficult position as corrupt leaders could try and delegitimize protests and strike by blaming foreign interference. Already see this done with the trucker convoy. Maybe the state should expose some of these elements that wont damage further investigation so they can show the people they are truly in a difficult spot and are going about this in good faith.
For example show the names and locations involved with the national endowment for democracy and tell its history. Point out other groups and nations currently on the attack.