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Soviet Union ceased to exist 30 years ago today
https://tass.com/society/1372631
https://tass.com/society/1372631
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kvs
GarryB
ALAMO
George1
8 posters
Dissolution of the USSR
George1- Posts : 17916
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Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Finty likes this post
ALAMO- Posts : 4483
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... by a voluntary will of its own member states/republics, what is worth mentioning seeing the things around there ...
GarryB likes this post
GarryB- Posts : 35781
Points : 36307
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
They probably thought they could do better on their own... which is ironic because I think it is Russia that seems to be doing the best and it was what they all blamed for holding them back and it appears to be more a case of they were holding Russia back.
kvs
kvs- Posts : 13990
Points : 14135
Join date : 2014-09-11
Location : Turdope's Kanada
I have probably posted this before, but it bears repeating. The failure of communism was its authoritarian core. It was predicated
on a false dichotomy. All or nothing social engineering of homo sovieticus (Trotskyist woke retardation) or bourgeoise decadence.
Social welfare did not require any destruction of the fabric of society and gulags. Russia today is showing the proper way. Elected
government that sets the tone over the economy. People can call this state capitalism until they are blue in the face and have a
stroke, but it is superior to Soviet communism and western capitalism. The latter is just an oligarchic toilet that spends all of its
time leeching the planet with colonial rape. The rabid reaction to Russian economic advances over the last 20 years proves this.
All the yapping about competition and freedom of this and that is for idiots to consume.
The concentrated power in the Party in the USSR created the conditions for the failure of the system. The rot would eventually
prompt the nomenclatura to dream of capitalist decadence and that is exactly what they did and engineered the collapse of the
system from within. In what must be poetic justice, these maggots only got about 10 years of good times (which Navalny sings
the praises of) and their fest was ruined by the professional faction concentrated in the defense and intelligence services that
has been tagged as "siloviki". Putin and others saw through the oligarch toilet system and figured out that some sort of return to
control was needed to restore sanity. It is really absurd how assorted "experts" try to paint Putin as part of an oligarchy. That
would be what the western system is, don't get them confused.
So Russia is an "existential" threat to the west. It presents a system model that undermines the western one. So naturally western
propaganda paints a totally false picture of the state of Russia today.
on a false dichotomy. All or nothing social engineering of homo sovieticus (Trotskyist woke retardation) or bourgeoise decadence.
Social welfare did not require any destruction of the fabric of society and gulags. Russia today is showing the proper way. Elected
government that sets the tone over the economy. People can call this state capitalism until they are blue in the face and have a
stroke, but it is superior to Soviet communism and western capitalism. The latter is just an oligarchic toilet that spends all of its
time leeching the planet with colonial rape. The rabid reaction to Russian economic advances over the last 20 years proves this.
All the yapping about competition and freedom of this and that is for idiots to consume.
The concentrated power in the Party in the USSR created the conditions for the failure of the system. The rot would eventually
prompt the nomenclatura to dream of capitalist decadence and that is exactly what they did and engineered the collapse of the
system from within. In what must be poetic justice, these maggots only got about 10 years of good times (which Navalny sings
the praises of) and their fest was ruined by the professional faction concentrated in the defense and intelligence services that
has been tagged as "siloviki". Putin and others saw through the oligarch toilet system and figured out that some sort of return to
control was needed to restore sanity. It is really absurd how assorted "experts" try to paint Putin as part of an oligarchy. That
would be what the western system is, don't get them confused.
So Russia is an "existential" threat to the west. It presents a system model that undermines the western one. So naturally western
propaganda paints a totally false picture of the state of Russia today.
andalusia and Mir like this post
George1- Posts : 17916
Points : 18421
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Soviet Union could have survived as Union of Sovereign States - Gorbachev
The Soviet Union’s first president, Mikhail Gorbachev believes that the Soviet authorities had underestimated the scale of inter-ethnic problems in the Soviet Union and the need for reforming the country. He is certain that the country could have survived even after the August 1991 government coup attempt as a Union of Sovereign States.
https://tass.com/politics/1380829
The Soviet Union’s first president, Mikhail Gorbachev believes that the Soviet authorities had underestimated the scale of inter-ethnic problems in the Soviet Union and the need for reforming the country. He is certain that the country could have survived even after the August 1991 government coup attempt as a Union of Sovereign States.
https://tass.com/politics/1380829
GarryB- Posts : 35781
Points : 36307
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
If Yeltsin and Gorby could have worked together they might have made a go of it, but honestly I think Russia is much better off without most of them anyway.
The Baltic States were always going to leave, and their financial position now should be a lesson to other countries thinking of leaving economic or political groupings... the port traffic through those Baltic States was their lifeblood and they could have retained most of it without being petty and childish towards its neighbours... resulting in the former traffic going through those ports now going through Russian ports instead.
The Baltic States were always going to leave, and their financial position now should be a lesson to other countries thinking of leaving economic or political groupings... the port traffic through those Baltic States was their lifeblood and they could have retained most of it without being petty and childish towards its neighbours... resulting in the former traffic going through those ports now going through Russian ports instead.
Finty- Posts : 539
Points : 545
Join date : 2021-02-10
Location : Great Britain
Not sure if this the right place but it seems to be. Some articles:
https://apnews.com/article/europe-russia-ukraine-poland-moscow-3dfb565a7e65ce7b110c806df12869f9
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/belarusalert/belarus-is-a-reminder-that-the-ussr-is-still-collapsing/
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/no-putin-isn-t-trying-to-bring-the-soviet-union-back
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/25/world/meanwhile-in-america-december-22-intl/index.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/26/britains-ussr-sympathisers-ignoring-regimes-horrors/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.rbth.com/history/334556-what-after-ussr-breakup/amp
https://apnews.com/article/europe-russia-ukraine-poland-moscow-3dfb565a7e65ce7b110c806df12869f9
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/belarusalert/belarus-is-a-reminder-that-the-ussr-is-still-collapsing/
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/no-putin-isn-t-trying-to-bring-the-soviet-union-back
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/25/world/meanwhile-in-america-december-22-intl/index.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/26/britains-ussr-sympathisers-ignoring-regimes-horrors/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.rbth.com/history/334556-what-after-ussr-breakup/amp
Guest- Guest
Putin famously called it the greatest geopolitical disaster of the century
GarryB- Posts : 35781
Points : 36307
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
If the US managed to convince the countries of the EU to break up then I am sure a few Germans and French and others would say it was the end of the world... but for most of the rest of the world it would be just one less bully being destroyed by another bully.
The US had enormous fun demanding European empires be broken up after WWI... they only empire they didn't break up was the Russian Empire and that had to wait till the 1990s.
The US had enormous fun demanding European empires be broken up after WWI... they only empire they didn't break up was the Russian Empire and that had to wait till the 1990s.
andalusia likes this post
Guest- Guest
GarryB wrote:If the US managed to convince the countries of the EU to break up then I am sure a few Germans and French and others would say it was the end of the world... but for most of the rest of the world it would be just one less bully being destroyed by another bully.
The US had enormous fun demanding European empires be broken up after WWI... they only empire they didn't break up was the Russian Empire and that had to wait till the 1990s.
The US wants a unipolar world
nomadski- Posts : 2234
Points : 2244
Join date : 2017-01-02
@ Guest
A friend of mine once said , after the collapse of the Soviet union : " .....oh , this will set back the causes of socialism for another 200 years ! " . Then I said : " ...But 200 years is a short time in historic terms " . What we want is irrelevant .
GarryB likes this post
kvs- Posts : 13990
Points : 14135
Join date : 2014-09-11
Location : Turdope's Kanada
Putin was referring to the consequences of the collapse. His words are twisted by western lie factory media.
Putin is not a communist revanchist. He has stated on numerous occasions what sort of disastrous policies were
implemented by the Bolsheviks and their successors. But he is not a moron who will self-flagellate and accept Russian
"guilt" over the USSR period. Russians remember the good aspects of life before 1990. These good aspects were there
as a result of their sacrifice and hard work. They were not gifted to them by the Party and the ideology.
The western view of Russia is a projection. It does not even go skin deep. I see so-called American right wingers engage
in full bore apologia for the insanity coming out of 1930s Germany, but apply a totally different standard to Russia as
if communist excesses are a genetic inferiority.
This is why I generally dislike the west. It is a collection of sanctimonious, ignorant hypocrites who have been the bane of
humanity for centuries. This is why they are so busy virtue signalling 24/7 with their phony moral superiority.
Putin is not a communist revanchist. He has stated on numerous occasions what sort of disastrous policies were
implemented by the Bolsheviks and their successors. But he is not a moron who will self-flagellate and accept Russian
"guilt" over the USSR period. Russians remember the good aspects of life before 1990. These good aspects were there
as a result of their sacrifice and hard work. They were not gifted to them by the Party and the ideology.
The western view of Russia is a projection. It does not even go skin deep. I see so-called American right wingers engage
in full bore apologia for the insanity coming out of 1930s Germany, but apply a totally different standard to Russia as
if communist excesses are a genetic inferiority.
This is why I generally dislike the west. It is a collection of sanctimonious, ignorant hypocrites who have been the bane of
humanity for centuries. This is why they are so busy virtue signalling 24/7 with their phony moral superiority.
GarryB, andalusia and Scorpius like this post
andalusia- Posts : 674
Points : 736
Join date : 2013-10-01
The Libertarian ideology of the United States is nothing more than the Marxism of the Right:
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/marxism-of-the-right/
https://buffsoldier-96.medium.com/the-similarities-between-marxism-and-libertarianism-f43e473ae9be
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/marxism-of-the-right/
https://buffsoldier-96.medium.com/the-similarities-between-marxism-and-libertarianism-f43e473ae9be
Scorpius- Posts : 1131
Points : 1133
Join date : 2020-11-06
Age : 35
Guest wrote:Putin famously called it the greatest geopolitical disaster of the century
The economic damage to Russia from the collapse of the USSR was TWICE as great as the losses in World War II.
Demographic losses in Russia alone range from 18 to 31 million people. In the countries of the former USSR, this is up to 60 million in total. In total, the Eastern bloc lost up to 85 million people due to excessive mortality, a drop in the birth rate, and mass migration.
I am not aware of a larger geopolitical catastrophe not only in the XX century. I am not aware of a larger geopolitical catastrophe in at least the last thousand years.
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