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    Poland-Belarus Migrant Crisis

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    par far


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    Post  par far Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:19 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    1.) Q: Will all these migrants make the collective weaker?

    Not necessarily... it depends on how they are treated and integrated into society.

    Lots of white guilt in the EU and justifiably so.

    Don't think of these people as detritus... these are the people who want a better future for themselves and are prepared to learn a new language and a new culture to get it for themselves and their families.

    Lots of white people are going to hate it, but Europe has spent a very long time.... 500 years plus whitening up the world, so mass migration coming back is no worse for Europe than it was for the rest of the world.

    White people have to pull that stick out of their arses and realise skin colour is an indication of where someones ancestors grew up... ie the climate and conditions.... but that is all. Skin colour does not limit or effect intellect or ability... and skin colour can change.

    A real warning would be scotland and new zealand... both small localised populations that were not hugely diversified and started producing gingers...

    What I think: They will make the collective west weaker. We can see this, these migrants are a drain on the economies of the collective west, they are just looking for free everything. And they are a menace wherever they go, there is rape, there is crime and they destroy the social fabric of the country that they go to.

    But will that make the west weaker? Even assuming what you say is true and more rape and criminal activity and expecting to get a free ride... well western culture says these days that any alcohol in a girl or womans blood means she is not giving informed consent to sexual activity so any sex they engage it could be considered rape even if it was consensual at the time... if she has regrets days later then her sexual partner could be in trouble... I think that makes the west weaker than any migrant influx. Then there is gender diversity and the idea that you can choose your gender and change gender depending on your mood... with laws being introduced to give jail terms for people who don't respect the choice of others... I actually think some new blood is really what they need.

    I know what the  western countries did to them but I am thinking from the  perspective of the western countries right now.

    Western countries are doing to them right now... sanctions and bombing and funding and supporting terrorists to destroy their countries so the west can get cheap oil or build pipelines through countries that hate the west and would not allow pipelines as long as they have a functioning government controlling all of their own territory.

    The way the west condemns the Chinese treatment of people and then it does this... why would you even want the west to get stronger?

    What would they do with that extra strength? Invade China or Russia?


    2.) Q: Will these migrants be used later by the globalist's and the western elite later on to have more control?

    Super cheap labour has never had any power or control in any society unless they rise up and take over in a revolution and I don't think the western elite want to broke what has delivered them all that wealth and a relatively stable society in which they can enjoy their wealth.

    A revolution in the US or EU might destroy the value of the Euro or US dollar and make them all paupers over night... I doubt there is enough gold in the US for Bezos to cash out let alone everyone else.


    What I think: I think this is the outcome they are going for, first create a problem and than offer a solution.

    Or it is what it is... a byproduct of their eternal wars that keep the money flowing from tax payers pockets into theirs.... they tolerate it because it is a distraction... the people coming across the Med are a problem because by destroying Libya they only have themselves to blame, but they still blame human traffickers for the issue, but in Poland they can blame Belarus and Russia so that is even better so they will block the migrants and make a big show of it... do we need a wall... no question of walls or sending them home for Italy and Greece and France... they issue orders like they have to remain in the first EU country they arrive in because that suits Germany and the Dutch and the UK and the top half of Europe.


    3.) Q: What will the globalist's and the western elite, do when they have let in to many migrants?

    They might accelerate or step back from the ongoing destruction of the countries these people are coming from and start just flying them home.

    Pretty funny that the EU complained bitterly at the US leaving all those useful and helpful Afghans in Afghanistan to face the wrath of the Taliban... all those poor people... we have to stay in Afghanistan with military force to protect them even though the billions being spent really didn't help them at all... they were treading water till the west left and they were dropped into the shit that is their country despite 20 years and trillions of dollars.

    But now with Afghans trying to get to the EU from Belarus and walls and fences go up and soldiers arrive to stop them... because obviously they don't care about Afghan people... there is likely lithium and all sorts of valuable minerals and precious materials in those mountains with all that tectonic activity and no high tech mining companies stripping it for the last 500 years like in most mountain ranges in the west.

    That is what the 1% are interested in... if they cared about afghans then why support warlords who are paedophiles... who are openly paedophiles... why are they only worried about Afghan women now?

    It is the radical hard line nutter that they have been supporting all these years since the Soviets went there in dec 1979... if they had just left them to it the women would be fine because communism is vastly more femenest than democracy ever was... but no... they couldn't allow that to continue then even though it is so important now.


    4.) Q: Will the collective west lose any technological, economic or any other edge they might have?

    What I think: Yes, we are already seeking, countries in Asia and Russia are already beating the collective west in any edge they had 10-20 years ago. While the collective west focus on destroying it self, countries like China and Russia are building it self up. The collective west is bend on pushing woke ideology, and other nonsense on their population. China and Russia(also other countries) are investing in the future generation, while keeping old traditions alive.

    The problems of the west and education and morality and ethics have nothing to do with their recent migrant problems for which they have no one but themselves to blame because it was totally self inflicted. Adding new blood... a new low cost workforce is a good way of injecting new blood into the system, but the real problem is that the middle class is going and turning into the poverty class while the rich get even richer there is fewer and fewer people in that middle bracket who are living a comfortable life on one income... because the super rich prefer to pay minimum wage... and when they buy a new company they fire everyone and hire back a quarter of the staff who then have to do the work of the three other people they used to work with but have been let go. No pay increase and much more work... not assistance or help to increase productivity... just bodies that are going to burn out with the workload they are being subjected to... but when they go one of the three that were fired previously would like to be back in work...


    First of all GarryB, thank you for response. When I posted these questions I thought of you(that you would respond to them.)

    For question 1, they are are not being integrated into society. I have relatives and friends that went to the EU(I never been there myself), all of my relatives and friends that went to the EU and I talked to, say that are places that you don't want to go to(they say there are many.) These people will never integrate into the EU, socially they will never take in "EU values", economically, they just want free things. This is not the new type of blood you need, over time this will make the EU and the collective west weaker.

    When this Pandemic is over(if it ever over), we will see what the EU looks, when tourists visit the EU.  

    Other things I agree with you but this is not the new blood that the collective west needs.

    I think the western elites will soon realize the mistake they have made, with letting in these migrants. Right now the west is losing any leverage they had against Russia or China. The collective west needed to be strong and untied to take on Russia and China but the western elites have divided their own countries and have made their own countries weaker.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:36 am

    For question 1, they are are not being integrated into society.

    Whose fault is that?

    How much effort is being put to assist them in their new countries of choice... I don't mean money... I mean training and language and cultural education...

    I have relatives and friends that went to the EU(I never been there myself), all of my relatives and friends that went to the EU and I talked to, say that are places that you don't want to go to(they say there are many.) These people will never integrate into the EU, socially they will never take in "EU values", economically, they just want free things.

    That might be very true but the free things don't last forever.... the next time they come to make the budgets to balance the income expenditure such things are easy and popular to cut.

    More important the adults will likely end up with menial low paying jobs that are pretty much dead end jobs... now their kids can use the opportunity to get a good education and aim higher, or they could be trapped by the social welfare trap that traps many native families too...

    The kids will adopt the EU values or not... Poland and Hungary have already said they want the right to hold their own values over EU values where the two conflict in their own borders... we will see how far that goes... lots of hostility from Brussels but I suspect people in the UK and indeed even France probably agree with those scallywags rather than the appointed big heads in Brussels.

    This is not the new type of blood you need, over time this will make the EU and the collective west weaker.

    It is going to be a real test of the EU.... given raw human material... is it able to produce diamonds, or will it just create shit. Every country likes to suggest that if you work hard that you can get a comfortable and happy life.... this will be a test. The EU does not need carbon copy clone robots that do as they are told...

    Other things I agree with you but this is not the new blood that the collective west needs.

    Blood is blood is blood.... it is all red.

    I think the western elites will soon realize the mistake they have made, with letting in these migrants.

    Considering they have polluted the world with their own spawn for the last 500 years perhaps their biggest problem is that the inbreeding at home has led to mental degradation... Perhaps you need a little colour in your cheeks.

    Right now the west is losing any leverage they had against Russia or China.

    Nothing at all to do with migrants in either location. Putin has been suggesting partnership and cooperation for 20 years and for 20 years he has been rejected and humiliated and told how he should be acting and performing to meet western "expectations"s.

    Well the patience has run out... nothing to do with Migrants... all the sanctions and backstabbing from the west has led to Russia filling in the gaps and now it is more independent than it has ever been in its history...

    The west does not want good relations with Russia... hense talk of being in a position of strength and leverage... trade partners and people wanting to cooperate don't use such terms...

    The collective west needed to be strong and untied to take on Russia and China but the western elites have divided their own countries and have made their own countries weaker.

    No it did not. All it needed to do was trade openly with Russia and treat it like an equal and everything would have been fine. They instead made Russia and now China an enemy and now they are realising they probably don't have the money for the upcoming cold wars they have brought on with their own stupidity and arrogance.... they are borrowed up to the eyeballs... the money they spend will mostly be borrowed from China and it will be a war they can't win.
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    Post  George1 Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:29 pm

    Migration crises were created by Western countries themselves - Putin

    https://tass.com/politics/1360987

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    Post  par far Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    For question 1, they are are not being integrated into society.

    Whose fault is that?

    How much effort is being put to assist them in their new countries of choice... I don't mean money... I mean training and language and cultural education...

    I have relatives and friends that went to the EU(I never been there myself), all of my relatives and friends that went to the EU and I talked to, say that are places that you don't want to go to(they say there are many.) These people will never integrate into the EU, socially they will never take in "EU values", economically, they just want free things.

    That might be very true but the free things don't last forever.... the next time they come to make the budgets to balance the income expenditure such things are easy and popular to cut.

    More important the adults will likely end up with menial low paying jobs that are pretty much dead end jobs... now their kids can use the opportunity to get a good education and aim higher, or they could be trapped by the social welfare trap that traps many native families too...

    The kids will adopt the EU values or not... Poland and Hungary have already said they want the right to hold their own values over EU values where the two conflict in their own borders... we will see how far that goes... lots of hostility from Brussels but I suspect people in the UK and indeed even France probably agree with those scallywags rather than the appointed big heads in Brussels.

    This is not the new type of blood you need, over time this will make the EU and the collective west weaker.

    It is going to be a real test of the EU.... given raw human material... is it able to produce diamonds, or will it just create shit. Every country likes to suggest that if you work hard that you can get a comfortable and happy life.... this will be a test. The EU does not need carbon copy clone robots that do as they are told...

    Other things I agree with you but this is not the new blood that the collective west needs.

    Blood is blood is blood.... it is all red.

    I think the western elites will soon realize the mistake they have made, with letting in these migrants.

    Considering they have polluted the world with their own spawn for the last 500 years perhaps their biggest problem is that the inbreeding at home has led to mental degradation... Perhaps you need a little colour in your cheeks.

    Right now the west is losing any leverage they had against Russia or China.

    Nothing at all to do with migrants in either location. Putin has been suggesting partnership and cooperation for 20 years and for 20 years he has been rejected and humiliated and told how he should be acting and performing to meet western "expectations"s.

    Well the patience has run out... nothing to do with Migrants... all the sanctions and backstabbing from the west has led to Russia filling in the gaps and now it is more independent than it has ever been in its history...

    The west does not want good relations with Russia... hense talk of being in a position of strength and leverage... trade partners and people wanting to cooperate don't use such terms...

    The collective west needed to be strong and untied to take on Russia and China but the western elites have divided their own countries and have made their own countries weaker.

    No it did not. All it needed to do was trade openly with Russia and treat it like an equal and everything would have been fine. They instead made Russia and now China an enemy and now they are realising they probably don't have the money for the upcoming cold wars they have brought on with their own stupidity and arrogance.... they are borrowed up to the eyeballs... the money they spend will mostly be borrowed from China and it will be a war they can't win.



    Most of these people don't want to be trained, don't want to learn the language and don't want the cultural education, they just want free money. We can see this by the way they behave.

    If they cut the budget for these people, what will happen? They are addicted to the free money.

    Do you really think the kids will adopt "EU values"? Their values were on full display when a 40-50 of them came to a school in Spain, armed with machetes, demanding the students pay for "protection money" or in London, when they used machetes in broad daylight.

    Poland and Hungary are very smart because they know the truth.

    There is nothing the EU can do, they can't turn shit into diamonds(no one can.)

    Blood maybe red but it can't be low IQ blood, that destroys the cell itself.


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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:46 am

    Most of these people don't want to be trained, don't want to learn the language and don't want the cultural education, they just want free money. We can see this by the way they behave.

    Those are the ones you send home.

    Everyone wants free money, but no country can afford to keep handing out free money... they will need support to get started but after an initial period they will be on their own.

    Most of the comments from migrants in Sweden talk about their situation being frustrating... without citizenship they cannot work... they cannot work... so you are forcing them to learn to just sit on their arses and accept free money for doing nothing... but not a lot of money, so they see all these shops around them and even children with money to buy cars and phones and wonderful stuff that they can't afford.

    Getting all the paperwork done and citizenship approved or denied and appealed can take years... years not working... that is the time that country should be saying.... what are your skills and interests.... this is what we currently have a work shortage in... which of these areas would you like to be trained it... and of course how good are your language skills... do you need help with that too.

    Once they can speak the local languages and have the skills for jobs in demand then they will find they can earn more than they will be handed out and the period of free handouts should be limited too.

    You talk about free handouts like they would be given a lot of money... like they would live like kings.... that is probably the case at home but where they are now it wont be enough to make them happy.

    If they cut the budget for these people, what will happen? They are addicted to the free money.

    Just like anyone else they will either work or steal... obviously if there is no work they will have to steal... and if you make their citizenship probationary on following the law then you can immediately deport them back to where they came from... proper support should mean when they can't get a job that they can be retrained and reeducated in areas the country needs workers in. Their goals will not to be CEOs of big powerful companies... but to work hard and earn enough to pay the bills and put the kids through a decent education that allows them to be doctors or lawyers and educated people.


    Do you really think the kids will adopt "EU values"?

    Why do you think EU kids have EU values?

    From School and from their family.

    If everyone in the EU already shared the same values and followed those values there would be no need for prisons as they would be empty.

    Their values were on full display when a 40-50 of them came to a school in Spain, armed with machetes, demanding the students pay for "protection money" or in London, when they used machetes in broad daylight.

    That is excellent. Send them home. It is the immigrants like our recent aussie immigrant that murdered 51 people that you want to identify early and get rid of early.... shame no one recognised the mongrel in him earlier.

    Poland and Hungary are very smart because they know the truth.

    Countries are like groups of people... stupid.

    Both are happy to play the Russophobe card to get blind support from the EU and US, or I should say their governments are... I doubt the people are consulted.

    The Hungarian government is smart enough to accept Russian vaccines, but Poland is dumb as a stick... picking fights with Russia... and for what? More money from the EU... milking the cow that will eventually kick you to death makes little sense in the long run.

    There is nothing the EU can do, they can't turn shit into diamonds(no one can.)

    I know lots of kiwis who have gone to the EU and have done really well... perhaps you need to be a bit more specific... or maybe the EU needs to bomb wealthy countries so the talent and educated move to the only safe places... the home of the strategic bombers (as opposed to the home of the suicide bombers)...

    Blood maybe red but it can't be low IQ blood, that destroys the cell itself.

    Couple of problems with your views from my perspective.... first of all I think the EU are a bunch of cock sucking censored and the very idea of sending smart people there to improve the EU and make it more powerful is pretty dumb from the perspective of the rest of the world which has suffered under european domination for the last half thousand years.
    Keep inbreeding... I am sure that is a solution that suits you best... did you see or have your read "the Time Machine"... the Morlocks don't look happy to me... not a bright future living underground....
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    Post  higurashihougi Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:50 am

    GarryB wrote:Just like anyone else they will either work or steal... obviously if there is no work they will have to steal...

    Or they will doing undocumented works, which provides no legal protection, no social welfare, lower wages, and high risk of being unpaid without anybody to help, are usually menial works that the local "civilized" "noble" citizens do not want to do.

    Migrants, especially trafficked migrants, are a source of cheap labour. No wonder why nobody is seriously trying to stop human trafficking.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:26 am

    Of course there is always the risk of getting abused... many nationalities are notorious for fooling relatives back home that everything is wonderful and easy and free to get them to come over and then they treat them like slaves and charge them for all sorts of things that they have to work off in your factory or your shop earning 10c a day or something.... it does not help that they are being abused by their own kind but of course if you are open to such abuse someone will take advantage of you eventually.

    Here in New Zealand the big fishing companies use Russian and Ukrainian fishermen because they know what they are doing but they are also cheap... the agriculture industry is terrible for that too with fruit pickers and of course the construction and demolition industries are notorious for having fake people on the books whose wages go straight into the pockets of the boss...

    But you will get taken advantage of anywhere... many families do this sort of thing with live in baby sitters... free room and board but often not much else and they treat them like servants...
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    Post  higurashihougi Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:37 am

    GarryB wrote:Of course there is always the risk of getting abused... many nationalities are notorious for fooling relatives back home that everything is wonderful and easy and free to get them to come over and then they treat them like slaves and charge them for all sorts of things that they have to work off in your factory or your shop earning 10c a day or something.... it does not help that they are being abused by their own kind but of course if you are open to such abuse someone will take advantage of you eventually.

    Bourgeioise is bourgeioise, there is no difference in essence between Russian, Chinese, European, American, or Vietnamese bourgeioise.

    A Chinese or Vietnamese enterprise owner is not neccessarily better than Jeff Bezos.

    It is painful for me, though, to know that some of my fellow countrymen are abusing and exploiting people. They seems to forget that their ancestor struggled for independence, not for being a new bully.

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    Post  flamming_python Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:57 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Of course there is always the risk of getting abused... many nationalities are notorious for fooling relatives back home that everything is wonderful and easy and free to get them to come over and then they treat them like slaves and charge them for all sorts of things that they have to work off in your factory or your shop earning 10c a day or something.... it does not help that they are being abused by their own kind but of course if you are open to such abuse someone will take advantage of you eventually.

    Bourgeioise is bourgeioise, there is no difference in essence between Russian, Chinese, European, American, or Vietnamese bourgeioise.

    A Chinese or Vietnamese enterprise owner is not neccessarily better than Jeff Bezos.

    It is painful for me, though, to know that some of my fellow countrymen are abusing and exploiting people. They seems to forget that their ancestor struggled for independence, not for being a new bully.

    Naturally but there is a difference between the borgouise internationale (globalists) and national borgouise.

    Lenin I think brought up the example of Iran being exploited by the leading imperialist power of the day Britain. Although they were both capitalist (or still semi-feudal in Iran's case), nevertheless Iran was the one facing being turned into a protectorate by a much more advanced capitalist power, while the national bourgeois of Iran was essentially fighting for the country's survival, and in this case it's necessary for socialists to support those who are under attack.
    This was essentially the core of the strategy of the nascent Soviet Union in its early years, in regards to its policy towards Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and others who were fighting for independence, had just attained it or were resisting foreign invasion.
    This was not a matter of altruism on the part of the workers internationale, but common sense. The national bourgeois against the international bourgeois, and then the people against the national bourgeois
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    Post  Kiko Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:15 pm

    Putin: Russia Ready to Help Resolve Migrant Crisis on Belarusian-Polish Border, by Ilya Tsukanov for Sputniknews, 14/11/2021.

    Tens of thousands of migrants, primarily from the Middle East and Africa, have travelled to Belarus in recent months in hopes of making their way across the border into neighbouring Poland and the Baltic states and further west. Minsk has stressed that it no longer has the resources to combat the flow thanks to crushing European sanctions.

    Russia is ready to do everything in its power to help resolve the migration crisis on the Belarusian-Polish border, President Vladimir has announced.

    "We are ready to contribute to this in every way possible, if, of course, something will depend on us," Putin said, speaking in an interview with Russian television on Sunday.

    "I learned about what's taking place on the Polish-Belarusian border in the media. I never discussed this issue with [Belarusian President Alexander] Lukashenko before. I spoke to him twice, only after this crisis began," Putin said, when asked to comment on claims made by some Western officials and media that Russia is responsible for the crisis.

    "Therefore, when we hear statements or allegations in our direction, I would like to tell everyone: deal with your internal problems, and don't try to pass questions which should be resolved by your own appropriate departments onto someone else," Putin stressed.

    Commenting on allegations that Russia's flag carrier airline Aeroflot has had a role in transporting migrants to Belarus, the Russian president insisted that the company was not knowingly involved.

    "They themselves created the conditions for thousands and hundreds of thousands of people to travel their way. And now they're looking to find the guilty party in order to absolve themselves of responsibility for the events," Putin said. "What does Aeroflot have to do with it? Has even one Aeroflot plane transported anyone? I have no idea, but, possibly, someone could have used some kind of planes and come through third countries. What do we have to do with anything? I'll repeat: this is an attempt to remove one's own responsibility for those events which are currently taking place."

    The situation on Belarus's frontier with Poland, Latvia and Lithuania deteriorated sharply on 8 November after several thousand migrants arrived at the border with Poland and set up camp there, with some attempting to make their way into the European Union nation and travel further west, presumably to Germany. Brussels has blamed Minsk for the escalation of the situation, with some EU countries demanding fresh sanctions against Belarus. President Lukashenko has said that the West's own policies - including decades of military interventions in the Middle East and North Africa, caused the current crisis, and added that previous rounds of EU sanctions against Belarus have drained his country's ability to control migration flows.

    West 'Destroyed These Nations' Statehood'

    In an interview with Russian media on Wednesday, Lukashenko recalled his warm relations with Middle Eastern leaders toppled and murdered by the West, either through direct military invasion or the so-called 'Arab Spring' protests. "Iraq...Tunisia, Libya, Syria. Then they came up against Iran, took a look - too tough a nut to crack, they didn't invade. Afghanistan, 20 years. And the result? They not only stirred up and shattered the Middle East, they destroyed these nations' statehood. Yes, it was a specific kind of statehood, not like the one in Belarus or Russia, not to speak of the Anglo-Saxons," Lukashenko said.

    The Belarusian president stressed that instead of improving the lives in the countries they invaded, the collective West only managed to "destroy everything that was there, the way of life", thereby causing the migrant crisis they now claim to be concerned about.

    Lukashenko also warned that Europe and the post-Soviet space should prepare for an even greater influx of migrants from Afghanistan in the coming months, particularly among those who worked for the US and NATO during the occupation, but whom the US now refuses to help. "The Americans called them, but ordered Europe and the nations of Central Asia to take them in for themselves. The Central Asian republics said 'sorry, no'. Where will they go? They will go to Europe. The Americans are saying 'let them be with you temporarily. We know what 'temporarily' means. These are Americans," he said.

    The Belarusian president pointed out that migrants were also making their way into Europe through Ukraine, but suggested that Western leaders and media have been silent on the matter thanks to Kiev's status as a client state.

    https://sputniknews.com/20211114/putin-russia-ready-to-help-resolve-migrant-crisis-on-belarusian-polish-border-1090724439.html

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    Post  lyle6 Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:36 am

    The Germans want these 'people' invading their homes - why the **** should Poland interfere? Awfully hypocritical of them to deny other useless eaters the opportunity after taking in hundreds of billions in German money themselves for not much in return. Twisted Evil

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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:59 am

    Bourgeioise is bourgeioise, there is no difference in essence between Russian, Chinese, European, American, or Vietnamese bourgeioise.

    A Chinese or Vietnamese enterprise owner is not neccessarily better than Jeff Bezos.

    I don't agree completely... Russian business culture is not the same as US business culture... Bezos would not be taking any steps to reduce the price of gas delivered to the EU if he as in charge of Gazprom.

    But certainly the culture of a country effects the rules in place as well... the rules in the west have been reshaped through corruption by big business funding politicians to then hire the big business to set the rules for that area of commerce... they are the experts of course, but it creates enormous potential to create and sustain monopolies that can build enormous fortunes that can further ensure they become untouchable.

    It is painful for me, though, to know that some of my fellow countrymen are abusing and exploiting people. They seems to forget that their ancestor struggled for independence, not for being a new bully.

    Sadly that seems to be the effect of money. There have been studies regarding charity of both money and time donated by University students.... when they start the results are generally actually rather similar but as students move further into their studies, those in commerce related subjects like accountancy and management the charity is reduced in cash dollars as well as donated time... the difference is dramatic and consistent across the genders.

    They say power corrupts and money is power.

    This was essentially the core of the strategy of the nascent Soviet Union in its early years, in regards to its policy towards Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and others who were fighting for independence, had just attained it or were resisting foreign invasion.
    This was not a matter of altruism on the part of the workers internationale, but common sense. The national bourgeois against the international bourgeois, and then the people against the national bourgeois

    In many ways a lot of the communism anti communism was more colonial anti colonial... both Castro and the Vietnamese approached the US first to get help to take their countries back from foreign occupation...


    The Belarusian president pointed out that migrants were also making their way into Europe through Ukraine, but suggested that Western leaders and media have been silent on the matter thanks to Kiev's status as a client state.

    It seems they only cross the Med and the Poland/Belarus border and no where else.... seems odd to me...

    Where are all those people wailing at the US leaving all those Afghans behind... here is their chance to save them... they had to bloody walk... but they did it.
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:51 am

    lyle6 wrote:The Germans want these 'people' invading their homes - why the **** should Poland interfere? Awfully hypocritical of them to deny other useless eaters the opportunity after taking in hundreds of billions in German money themselves for not much in return. Twisted Evil

    They don't, Merkel, Turdeau and other retards just want to 'look good', moralizing to other countries and so on. One has to maintain the state religion after all. State ideology in the modern era, but it fulfills the same role and really is just another religion ultimately - a set of ideal moral values and standards divorced from a scientific analysis of how human beings and human society naturally operate and according to what motivations.
    Although with religions, they have evolved over hundreds of years and their laws and principles are typically founded on some practical understandings. Not so much with this SJW rubbish.

    Anyway, in practice Europe have been busy closing off the continent for new migrants after the disastrous effects of the refugees welcome policy circa 2015 (as mentioned they won't admit to it), which led to the rise of the political right. They cut down on the stream from Libya, paid off Turkey, worked with Russia on closing the loophole to Norway and Finland, and now have turned their attentions to Belarus.
    Ultimately they'll have to pay Belarus just as they did Turkey.

    EU laws allow for people to claim refugee status, with Germany in particular having very generous welfare systems and a long period of refugee application processing, hence why everyone wants to get to Germany (or Britain). Setting one foot onto EU territory would allow them to get to Germany unharnessed in theory, although in practice it looks like the Poles are trying to hunt down migrants who've crossed into their territory.
    Therefore setting a foot onto EU territory is precisely what the EU is trying to prevent all these people from doing. Yes they themselves invited them, and they can't make a U-turn against their 'principles' and ideological clap-trap and un-invite them, but in practice they're doing everything else possible to seal up their borders

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:20 am

    W can close this dispute in a minute.
    The whole situation is Lukis' payback for years of Polish interference into Belarussian internal affairs.
    Plus Pribalts, but who cares that plankton.
    He took ol' good methods, mastered with US-financed NGOs a decade ago, that worked perfectly fine.
    Created a European-wide immigrant histery.
    The matter is fuelled by the local Polish government for internal reasons.
    And what we have at the end, is a mess with people in misery no one really cares about.
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    Post  George1 Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:11 am

    Belarus Accuses Polish Military of Shooting at Migrants to Prevent Border Crossing
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    Post  George1 Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:14 pm

    Belarus to introduce food embargo in response to sanctions

    The ban covers certain goods from the EU, the US, Canada, Norway, Albania, Iceland, the UK, Montenegro, North Macedonia and Switzerland

    https://tass.com/world/1372103

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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:14 am

    Smart move... unlike the position of Russia when it imposed an import ban on EU food where it struggled for a while to get its own production up and running and often EU food was repackaged as food from other places to sneak in to Russia, Belarus can switch fairly easily to Russian sources of food while it ramps up its own domestic production of food to replace EU food sources.

    This will be good for Belarus in the short term because having Russia next door means they shouldn't starve, but in the longer term domestic food production will be good for the country too, it will make Belarus more independent of the EU and create an export capacity for themselves... most foods can be exported around the world to make good money.
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:07 am

    To be honest, they don't need any food embargo.
    Cutting off the fertilizers supply was just good enough.
    And gues what!?
    It was the EU idiocracy that implied those sanctions on Belarus Summer this year! Laughing Laughing Laughing
    EU does not have enough production lines for all the fertilizers they are using.
    Belarus used to export thousands of tons.
    My family members who are farmers, state that there is no supply for the next season. Prices are insane already and will be only higher.
    Sulfur price tripled in the last 18 months.
    And Belarus is only smiling friendly, looking at them, and supplying each grain they can produce to the Far East, to India, China and Vietnam dunno
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:27 pm




    Too bad you did not mentioned it but:


    Poland is a tributary state of Ukraine.


    At least hundreds of thousands of tons of fertilizers have recently been transported from Poland to Ukraine. It is a major reason why there is so little fertilizer left in Poland.

    Also, reportedly dozens of farms go bankrupt in Poland every day, in part due to the extremely high prices for the fertilizers.


    It looks like somebody is planning to starve Poland.


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    Post  ALAMO Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:47 pm

    Don't go drama mode bud when not needed.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:57 am

    RT had a documentary on the EU food embargo and they talked to Polish farmers... many of whom had just spent big money to expand production capacity for things like apples that were in demand in Russia... or should I say had just got into enormous levels of debt to expand production to meet demand and then Putin put sanctions on EU food. All of a sudden they had more apples than they knew what to do with and no one to sell them to.

    It mentioned that for storage they have large rooms where the oxygen levels are kept very low to slow down the process of ripening so they can delay some fruit from being ready so it is no all ready at once.

    There were lots of stories of Orchardists who couldn't pay their loans who went into such rooms and lay down and went to sleep and never woke up again.

    Actually rather sad, these are ordinary people just trying to earn a living.

    These are people who petitioned local government officials to get them to roll back EU sanctions on Russia so that Russia would roll back its sanctions in return and everything could go back to normal, but I suspect there is no going back to the old normal.

    Other sources will have been found to supply the demand for most foods and if it is local then it is probably cheaper because there would be no conversions to Euros, and Russian wages are lower than European wages, so even if they get their way they might find themselves competing against Russian apples that are cheaper than they could make them.... wouldn't that be a kick in the guts.

    They got screwed by their own government and then to lobby to undo the damage they get screwed again.

    BTW Brussels must be the worlds largest source of fertiliser... but it is in human form.... just get some decent sized liquidisers and start producing your Soylent Green... even if no one buys it you will still be doing yourself a favour getting rid of that human manure.

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    Post  pukovnik7 Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:RT had a documentary on the EU food embargo and they talked to Polish farmers... many of whom had just spent big money to expand production capacity for things like apples that were in demand in Russia... or should I say had just got into enormous levels of debt to expand production to meet demand and then Putin put sanctions on EU food. All of a sudden they had more apples than they knew what to do with and no one to sell them to.

    It mentioned that for storage they have large rooms where the oxygen levels are kept very low to slow down the process of ripening so they can delay some fruit from being ready so it is no all ready at once.

    There were lots of stories of Orchardists who couldn't pay their loans who went into such rooms and lay down and went to sleep and never woke up again.

    Actually rather sad, these are ordinary people just trying to earn a living.

    These are people who petitioned local government officials to get them to roll back EU sanctions on Russia so that Russia would roll back its sanctions in return and everything could go back to normal, but I suspect there is no going back to the old normal.

    Other sources will have been found to supply the demand for most foods and if it is local then it is probably cheaper because there would be no conversions to Euros, and Russian wages are lower than European wages, so even if they get their way they might find themselves competing against Russian apples that are cheaper than they could make them.... wouldn't that be a kick in the guts.

    They got screwed by their own government and then to lobby to undo the damage they get screwed again.

    BTW Brussels must be the worlds largest source of fertiliser... but it is in human form.... just get some decent sized liquidisers and start producing your Soylent Green... even if no one buys it you will still be doing yourself a favour getting rid of that human manure.

    Problem is that EU doesn't care about Polish farmers... in fact, EU subsidizes food imports far more than domestic farmers. EU is ruled by technocrats who don't care about people... personally, I would prefer if Austria-Hungary or Holy Roman Empire were to be revived in place of the today's "democratic" tyranny.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:31 am

    Everybody (in the EU) poured scorn on the UK for exiting the EU but no one really discussed why, and whether the EU could be changed or overhauled to better suit the members so they didn't want to leave.

    There are more than a few other countries who are not happy with the EU for this or that reason, but no interest in self reflection as to what the problems might be that cause these problems.

    Having appointed boards of people often leads to ivory tower situations where people with little or no real world experience, or worse the idiots that are useless domestically are exiled by being sent to the EU, where their incompetence is easier to hide and they might climb to a position they are incapable of handling.

    It has to be something very extraordinary for a country that is part of a huge internal market to want to just leave... I suspect lack of real discussion, and just soap box sales pitches and popularity contests led to a result that everyone is stuck with.

    Like everything in the west you picked your side and then you argued for that side no matter what.... you can't change sides and you are against the view of the other side even when they are obviously right because their side is wrong and your side is right.

    No real discussion.... just arguments... and the undecided take their pick on the night.

    What a crazy way to lead a country or decide something as important as this?

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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Fri Dec 31, 2021 2:05 am

    GarryB wrote:RT had a documentary on the EU food embargo and they talked to Polish farmers... many of whom had just spent big money to expand production capacity for things like apples that were in demand in Russia... or should I say had just got into enormous levels of debt to expand production to meet demand and then Putin put sanctions on EU food. All of a sudden they had more apples than they knew what to do with and no one to sell them to.

    It mentioned that for storage they have large rooms where the oxygen levels are kept very low to slow down the process of ripening so they can delay some fruit from being ready so it is no all ready at once.

    There were lots of stories of Orchardists who couldn't pay their loans who went into such rooms and lay down and went to sleep and never woke up again.

    Actually rather sad, these are ordinary people just trying to earn a living.

    These are people who petitioned local government officials to get them to roll back EU sanctions on Russia so that Russia would roll back its sanctions in return and everything could go back to normal, but I suspect there is no going back to the old normal.

    Other sources will have been found to supply the demand for most foods and if it is local then it is probably cheaper because there would be no conversions to Euros, and Russian wages are lower than European wages, so even if they get their way they might find themselves competing against Russian apples that are cheaper than they could make them.... wouldn't that be a kick in the guts.

    They got screwed by their own government and then to lobby to undo the damage they get screwed again.

    BTW Brussels must be the worlds largest source of fertiliser... but it is in human form.... just get some decent sized liquidisers and start producing your Soylent Green... even if no one buys it you will still be doing yourself a favour getting rid of that human manure.




    There are around 6 000 suicides per year in Poland. Some of them are murders formally listed as "suicides" probably a few hundred, or perhaps around 1 000?

    Even if these murders are excluded that still leaves around 5 000 genuine suicides per year in Poland. That is a whole town disappearing each year in Poland only due to suicides.


    By comparison in the Communist Poland until 1989 there were only on average a few hundred suicides per year, majority had romantic backgrounds, and during the 1980's Poland's population size was almost the same to what it is today.


    That translates into a huge increase in the suicide rate during the post-1989 "free" and "democratic" Poland.



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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:36 am

    To clarify I liked that post to thank you for sharing that information...

    I found the actual information rather sad and it sounds like something that should be talked about to find solutions and deal with the issues...

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