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lancelot
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    Sukhoi LTS "Checkmate" #2

    Eugenio Argentina
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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:32 pm

    Thank you.
    I am Eugenio from Argentina.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:01 pm

    Eugenio Argentina wrote:Thank you.
    I am Eugenio from Argentina.

    I think we got that from your name Laughing

    I meant here https://www.russiadefence.net/f6-member-introductions-and-rules

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:45 pm

    Mir wrote:Just my opinion but there is no real design evidence that points to any similarity with the YF-32 at all. Even the "similar" air intake is completely different.
    The Draken on the other hand is arguably one of the most beautiful fighters ever designed but why go retro? The Grippen is nothing special and has nothing to offer. The Su-75 is doing just fine as it is thanks!

    Sukhoi LTS "Checkmate" #2 - Page 6 75-cap10

    So elegant.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:47 pm

    TMA1 wrote:
    So elegant.

    Learn from others, set your parameters and power up the super computer. Very Happy

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:50 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    TMA1 wrote:
    So elegant.

    Learn from others, set your parameters and power up the super computer. Very Happy

    More of a shiny aluminum beast with vacuum tubes in it, but damn ruskies make lovely fifth gen fighters.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:04 pm

    Or for that matter planes like the Vought Crusader in terms of center fuselage.
    It looks more elegant than the YF-32, more F-16 like, but I think there were better choices. Consider this:

    You think their new 5th gen design can be made better by making it look more like 3rd and 4th gen aircraft?

    Thanks to TVC in Izd. 30 they could have gone even further with designs like the X-36.

    You do understand half the value of Checkmate is that it is essentially an Su-57 based design with one engine removed... making it a completely different design would ruin that reuse of technology and materials totally and for what... so that it might have better performance... you don't even know what its performance is and you want more?

    Where is the first part of this thread? Thanks.

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t8565-new-combat-aircraft-will-be-presented-at-maks-2021

    So elegant.

    It doesn't need to shoot anything down... its mere existence in the world will force western countries to either spend ridiculous amounts of money on F-35s that will bankrupt them, or even more amounts of money on new 5th gen light fighters they don't need and probably can't afford anyway.

    New 5th gen light fighter programmes are going to cause initially collaboration and joint ventures, but then conflict and discord and then they will each break away and make their own slightly different plane that collectively will probably be more expensive than their current options and because they will all come up with a slightly different aircraft they will be obliged to exert pressure on their "allies" and dependents to buy their product to make it succeed by changing the production runs from 100 for domestic use to 150 to include 50 super expensive export models too which wont help them break even and cause friction with their allies too.

    A bit less ideology and a bit more practical thinking is what this western world needs to get away from its America dependency, and start making sensible decisions for itself... like the Chinese and Russians are not going to invade Europe any time soon and the 350 billion pounds the UK is going to spend on US missiles that the US will control that may never be used could be used for more practical things like recreating your car industry and your aircraft industry and your ship building industry etc etc etc and your health service... who has been overworked and underpaid for too long...

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:06 pm

    Thank you.
    I am Eugenio from Argentina.

    It is a forum rule that you introduce yourself in the rules and introductions section of this forum... just go to the rules and introduction section and create a new thread and just post what you have just posted above... ie

    I am Eugenio from Argentina.

    And you are good to go. You might want to look at other introductions and a short read of the rules while you are there too perhaps... Smile
    Eugenio Argentina
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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:10 pm

    already did

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:05 pm

    Just in case you need to shut up some mouths   angel

    Manturov: Russia itself will finance the creation of the Checkmate fighter

    Russia will independently finance the creation of the fifth-generation Checkmate fighter without attracting foreign investment. This was announced on the sidelines of the Eastern Economic Forum RIA Novosti said the head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov.

    According to him, it absolutely does not depend on foreign customers. Moreover, the budget is fully aligned, both with the participation of programs of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, and extra-budgetary funds of Rostec and UAC.

    Foreign participation is not excluded. Foreign customers can finance the creation of a two-seat fighter, said Manturov. Checkmate is primarily focused on deliveries to foreign markets, but do not forget about the supply of aircraft to the Russian troops, the minister added.

    https://rg.ru/2021/09/03/manturov-rossiia-sama-profinansiruet-sozdanie-istrebitelia-checkmate.html

    This is a nice one too:

    The aviation complex has been designed, its characteristics have been confirmed by a full range of virtual tests, and static strength tests will be conducted soon. The first flight of the Checkmate LTS is scheduled for 2023

    Mikhail Strelets

    https://tass.ru/interviews/11944415

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:34 pm

    LMFS wrote:Just in case you need to shut up some mouths   angel

    Manturov: Russia itself will finance the creation of the Checkmate fighter....

    Seriously, how is this still a news to some people?

    It's a post-60's fighter jet, you don't develop that by borrowing money
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:03 pm

    Well that's already financed by the pak fa program. Like I said the plane is just half of a su-57.
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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:30 pm

    This aircraft can be a new MiG-21 if it can keep it simple and cheap.
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    Post  Isos Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:36 pm

    Eugenio Argentina wrote:This aircraft can be a new MiG-21 if it can keep it simple and cheap.

    That's the goal.

    But modern countries tend to produce locally or have their own projects. Also the number of fighters in air forces dicreased drastically. Those who used to have hundreds have now barely 100 fighter and those who used to have thousands of fighters now produce their own fighters.

    You can't be anymore successful with fighters and sell hundreds and hundreds of them. Even the US who impose its products have hard time selling its f-35.

    But the potential of the checkmate is huge.

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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:51 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Eugenio Argentina wrote:This aircraft can be a new MiG-21 if it can keep it simple and cheap.

    That's the goal.

    But modern countries tend to produce locally or have their own projects. Also the number of fighters in air forces dicreased drastically. Those who used to have hundreds have now barely 100 fighter and those who used to have thousands of fighters now produce their own fighters.

    You can't be anymore successful with fighters and sell hundreds and hundreds of them. Even the US who impose its products have hard time selling its f-35.

    But the potential of the checkmate is huge.


    There are dozens of countries that do not produce their own aircraft. Or at least fighter jets.
    For example Argentina is only manufacturing the Pampa. A coach that began to be produced in the 80s.
    Not to mention other countries in America.
    The new aircraft could have a market in Nicaragua, Cuba and Bolivia to name three small countries, facing the USA and close to Russia.
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    Post  Isos Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:59 pm

    Yeah sure but even at 20 million dollars unit price that wouldn't be more than 40 fighters for all of them.

    They are all broken countries. Russia won't sell for free like USSR did.
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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:02 am

    Isos wrote:Yeah sure but even at 20 million dollars unit price that wouldn't be more than 40 fighters for all of them.

    They are all broken countries. Russia won't sell for free like USSR did.

    It's something to start with.
    The strategy is that sometimes you have to "lose" money to gain influence.
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    Post  hoom Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:47 am

    This aircraft can be a new MiG-21 if it can keep it simple and cheap.
    I don't think simple is a valid claim for a 5G fighter.
    They seem to have been able to keep it quick to develop -> cheap by maximising parts & electronics commonality with Su-57.

    Speaking of commonality: Here is some info on the cockpit panel (also on Su-57 & MiG-35D) from KRET
    http://bastion-opk.ru/indicator-pai-army-2021/ (Russian)
    Sukhoi LTS "Checkmate" #2 - Page 6 PAI_KRET_ARMIA-2021_01
    25" 3200*1200, 16m colours
    Run by 2* Elbrus-1C processors running half of the screen each plus an additional FPGA processor.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:26 am

    This plane is going to cost less than western LIFTs and be comparable in operational costs too so it will not only be affordable to buy but also affordable to operate as well.

    The trend of air forces buying less and less is mainly because they cost more and more and so the makers claim their new plane is still cost effective because it can replace 2 or 3 older planes.

    If this plane costs the same as the older planes or less than some of them then they can be purchased in similar numbers to the aircraft they are replacing which gives your air power a real boost because being better aircraft but also available in greater numbers magnifies the effectiveness of the aircraft by several times because it does not matter how amazing an aircraft is if you only have enough for operating from 2 or three bases.

    If you have hundreds of these planes you can spread them to more areas where they can be much more effective and need external fuel tanks or inflight refuelling much less often or not at all... which will make them even more effective.

    That new single engined MiG model shown at MAKs suggests they have a design that is even cheaper to buy and operate making it essentially affordable to most countries who actually need air power.

    Such new aircraft probably used together with drones will mean even the countries that spend the least on defence can have some level of protection from HATO and the US.

    I don't think simple is a valid claim for a 5G fighter.

    Simple is a relative term... they will likely offer a range of options for the plane for different users that can increase the price or lower it depending on the options taken. You could get all the extra bits and the bells and whistles and extra features and push its price up a few million and add a few thousand dollars per hour of flight, but I suspect overall some of these things could be worth it.

    Would have liked to have seen wingtip pods for external EW systems and jamming as well as towed drones and recon/targeting pod options... but that will be yet to come... decent pods can reduce the aircraft costs, but allow capability when needed or useful as well as easy upgrade paths...

    Nice cockpit display too by the way.

    I especially like the line of thumbnail alternative screens along the lines of the control buttons across the top... or is it a touch screen?

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    RTN
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    Post  RTN Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:50 am

    GarryB wrote:The trend of air forces buying less and less is mainly because they cost more and more and so the makers claim their new plane is still cost effective because it can replace 2 or 3 older planes.
    Depends on how countries go about modernizing their aircraft. Look at this comparison that an Indian analyst made. Chinese J-16 that are basically a copy of the Su 30 is far more advanced than Indian Su 30MKIs.

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    Post  RTN Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:05 am

    Isos wrote:Yeah sure but even at 20 million dollars unit price that wouldn't be more than 40 fighters for all of them.

    They are all broken countries. Russia won't sell for free like USSR did.
    Markets for Checkmate: China, UAE, Egypt, Algeria
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    Post  Mir Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:06 am

    RTN wrote:
    Depends on how countries go about modernizing their aircraft. Look at this comparison that an Indian analyst made. Chinese J-16 that are basically a copy of the Su 30 is far more advanced than Indian Su 30MKIs.

    The J-16 entered service in 2015 and is obviously a later generation Su-30 than say the Indian MKI, but India is already looking at upgrading the MKI with AESA radar. Having some form of missile warning system is kind of standard to modern fighters so I would be surprised if the MKI doesn't have any! I am also pretty sure that the MKI has some composite material used in the air frame. Maybe not as much as the J-16, but even the J-16 is not an all composite aircraft as claimed.

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    Post  RTN Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:35 am

    Mir wrote:The J-16 entered service in 2015 and is obviously a later generation Su-30 than say the Indian MKI, but India is already looking at upgrading the MKI with AESA radar. Having some form of missile warning system is kind of standard to modern fighters so I would be surprised if the MKI doesn't have any! I am also pretty sure that the MKI has some composite material used in the air frame. Maybe not as much as the J-16, but even the J-16 is not an all composite aircraft as claimed.
    Whatever you said, may or may not happen in the future. Indian Su 30MKI was inducted almost 20 years ago and has undergone modernization on a regular basis. Yet, as of now the J-16 wins hands down.

    If war breaks out between China & India today, the J-16 will score over the Su 30MKI.

    Modernization is directly related to economic welfare. U.S, China being prosperous states can continue the upgrade process on a regular basis. Third world countries like India can't afford that.
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    Post  Mir Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:49 am

    There is actually very little chance of a war between nuclear armed nations - unless you want to self destruct. I don't know how prosperous the US will be in a few years but yes China is on the rise and will soon be the number one economy in the world. India is not doing too bad either, but yes new generation military equipment is becoming more an more expensive - esp the one's from America!

    There may even come a time when not even the US can afford to buy it's own weapons! Imagine importing from China! Laughing
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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:45 am

    When I compare the new Sukhoi aircraft with the MiG-21, it is to imply the possibility of selling many aircraft to various countries. In addition, the ease and economy of maintenance and other advantages.
    Western propaganda generally showed the MiG-21 underestimating it.
    The reality is that it was an aircraft that produced a great revolution by making dozens of countries able to have supersonic fighters and in appreciable quantities.
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    Post  Hole Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:55 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    LMFS wrote:Just in case you need to shut up some mouths   angel

    Manturov: Russia itself will finance the creation of the Checkmate fighter....

    Seriously, how is this still a news to some people?

    It's a post-60's fighter jet, you don't develop that by borrowing money  

    The americans do.

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